VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

breld

kyfdx said:

I overshot the buyback by $687. I added for a sunroof, but I think that's standard on the TDI SE

I called.. it's still there.

From when I bought my Passat a few years ago, I'm pretty sure there were "w/Sun" and "w/Sun and Nav" options on the SE. Not that it makes a ton of difference overall, but I do think you'd add that sunroof option in.

breld

Just got back from the VW dealer - got the 30k mile service done for free, as VW did still have the maintenance plan included for the 2013 model. And, still have a few months of bumper-to-bumper coverage on it.

Apparently I need some new tires for the wagon (not surprised based on my quick look at them when purchased) - politely declined their offer to put new tires on. I'll either find some cheap ones or maybe some used ones for this purpose.

corvette

breld said:

Apparently I need some new tires for the wagon (not surprised based on my quick look at them when purchased) - politely declined their offer to put new tires on. I'll either find some cheap ones or maybe some used ones for this purpose.

Carmax put some cheap (but H speed rated) Sumitomos on my Murano before I bought it. I've only put about 4 or 5,000 miles on it, but they're very quiet and have good traction in the wet and dry. Haven't tested them in snow yet.

stickguy

Breld, remind me. How long will it be before you can sell it back?

also, I explained all this to my wife at dinner. she seemed skeptical. Kept asking what happens if the whole proposal doesn't go through.

qbrozen

I didn't make it out to PA today, but I'm having second thoughts. I think I may go look at the brown sedan instead. Big reason being the asking price. The sedan is a good deal while the wagons are priced $3k too high.

stickguy

I really liked that car. If I was in need now, I would have been there already.

breld

corvette said:

breld said:

Apparently I need some new tires for the wagon (not surprised based on my quick look at them when purchased) - politely declined their offer to put new tires on. I'll either find some cheap ones or maybe some used ones for this purpose.

Carmax put some cheap (but H speed rated) Sumitomos on my Murano before I bought it. I've only put about 4 or 5,000 miles on it, but they're very quiet and have good traction in the wet and dry. Haven't tested them in snow yet.

I saw some Sumitomos on one of the main tire sites - definitely seemed like a good deal.

breld

stickguy said:

Breld, remind me. How long will it be before you can sell it back?

also, I explained all this to my wife at dinner. she seemed skeptical. Kept asking what happens if the whole proposal doesn't go through.

If the court approves the plan on July 26th, there will be a 45 day period where the Eligible Sellers can make their claims. Once that period is over, VW can start accepting claims (since they'll know what portion of that Eligible Seller pool will be unclaimed and therefore available to the new owner).

All in all, I think the expectation is that claims will start being accepted around October, and I believe VW has 90 days to make the payment once a claim has been made.

breld

qbrozen said:

I didn't make it out to PA today, but I'm having second thoughts. I think I may go look at the brown sedan instead. Big reason being the asking price. The sedan is a good deal while the wagons are priced $3k too high.

As I've said before, I'm a fan of the current Jetta, but having said that, that Golf platform that the old wagons were on is pretty entertaining.

stickguy

so October at the earliest if you want to do it ASAP but you can wait as long as December 2018 if you want to?

breld

Correct - December 31, 2018 is the end of the claim period, but claims have to be submitted by September 1, 2018 (which kinda makes the end of the claim period then, but anyway).

breld

Ran into a sales manager I used to work with at a different store - he's now the sales manager at the Audi dealership (sister dealership to the VW place I was at). I told him I've been eyeing the Q7's, used and new.

He said they had some 2015 Q7 TDIs that they would be able to sell soon.

I didn't say anything about the VW fix for those 3.0l TDIs that was just rejected a few days ago by California (and basically the EPA too). Not sure what he meant by "soon."

kyfdx

breld said:

Correct - December 31, 2018 is the end of the claim period, but claims have to be submitted by September 1, 2018 (which kinda makes the end of the claim period then, but anyway).

So, it's just the people that have sold their car since last September that only have 45 days to put in a claim for compensation?

qbrozen

breld said:

Apparently I need some new tires for the wagon (not surprised based on my quick look at them when purchased) - politely declined their offer to put new tires on. I'll either find some cheap ones or maybe some used ones for this purpose.

Carmax put some cheap (but H speed rated) Sumitomos on my Murano before I bought it. I've only put about 4 or 5,000 miles on it, but they're very quiet and have good traction in the wet and dry. Haven't tested them in snow yet.

I saw some Sumitomos on one of the main tire sites - definitely seemed like a good deal.

I bought a set of Sumitomos for my G35X when I first started autocrossing. I figured a cheap set would be good to learn on. They wound up surprising me and everyone in my class, and they wore like iron. 

kyfdx

kyfdx said:

@qbrozen Actually, that 2014 Passat for $16,988 has a buyback of $24,851, if I have to split the modification amount. And, that's just 10 miles from my house.

Didn't really want an automatic Passat, but it's a nice car to drive for a few months, if I can make $7K

This one: https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/673318493/overview/

So.. looked at this one, today.

It's a nice car. Has leatherette, not leather, like in the ad. But, all the diesels are nicely equipped. Bluetooth for your phone, heated seats, backup camera. Split folding rear seats, 18" alloys. Power driver's seat. Moonroof.

No NAV or HID headlights. Drove well, good steering and brakes. Diesel with an automatic is peppy enough, but you really have to floor it, to get it to downshift. Nice tight ride, not floaty.

Drawbacks for me: Black on black. Not real sporty. Out of bumper-to-bumper portion of the warranty. Tires aren't "like-new". And, the only reason I'm worried about those things, is if this whole buyback thing falls apart and I'm "stuck" with it.

Tax/registration/doc fees, etc come to about $1300, so realistically looking at about $17,500 OTD.
And, because I can't subtract, it's actually $23,851, not $24,851, if I have to split the modification amount. Still almost $6000. And, I think this was an over-mileage lease that went to auction. So, there may be no one to claim the modification amount. If that's the case, then $27,377, and an almost $10K profit.

@breld I think you are right about the sunroof. Option on the SE TDI.

qbrozen

I am at the dealer now with the brown jetta. Have yet to actually see the car though. 

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

I am at the dealer now with the brown jetta. Have yet to actually see the car though. 

We should try that Periscope thing, and watch it live!

breld

kyfdx said:

Correct - December 31, 2018 is the end of the claim period, but claims have to be submitted by September 1, 2018 (which kinda makes the end of the claim period then, but anyway).

So, it's just the people that have sold their car since last September that only have 45 days to put in a claim for compensation?

Yes, those that owned the vehicle as of September 18th, and sold it prior to June 28th.  

kyfdx

I keep looking and looking, and doing the math. My son was looking over my shoulder and said, "If you are looking for the most bang for the buck, looks like you already found it. Quit trying to find the car you want to drive for two years, if you are just doing it to make money".

He might be right. Just a matter of pulling the trigger, I guess. Oh, and negotiations. At $16,988 asking, I still need to pare off at least $800-$1300 to make me feel good about it. ($1300 for tax, registration and dealer fees, here)

stickguy

I'm all tingly, waiting to find out if QB bought "my" Brown Jetta!

man, if this had been fall 2017 instead, I would already have my next car.

and if I did this now, I would plan on driving it until 2018 (last minute) to maximize my "free" miles.

qbrozen

The car is quite nice, but we did not come to an agreement. They just weren't willing to give me a fair amount for the Caddy.

stickguy

I always figured that trying to trade "down" that much was going to be tricky. Just not what they are used to.

Glad the car is nice. Too bad I don't need one!

corvette

Can you sell the Caddy through other means and get a better price? Or were you counting on paying no sales tax due to the positive difference in values?

stickguy

well, at the 7% sales tax rate, a $14,000 purchase would save him $980. so gotta beat the trade offer by a grand to just be even.

qbrozen

I don't have fhe cash to cover the negative equity. Was counting on rolling that in and let the VW buyback take care of it.

kyfdx

I get shaky when I think about actually buying that Passat. I can see buying it, and then the case is finalized, I put in the VIN number and it pops up "ineligible", and I find out that the local guy just bought it from a VW dealer.

Wouldn't be the end of the world, but it's probably a $3K loss, if I flip it after that.

kyfdx

But, then.. I also think about clearing $9500 on the deal, if it goes the other way...

breld

Yeah - you definitely want to get comfortable that the vehicle is at least eligible. Especially on a car that you'd be buying much more for the buyback than for the enjoyment of owning/driving it.

Like for my wagon, it should be eligible and I feel good about the buyback prospect, but at the end of the day, I like it enough that if I was somehow "stuck" with it, I'm okay with that.

breld

By the way, for anyone who needs a carfax run, I purchased a carfax for my Jetta wagon before I bought it, just to make sure it was all good, and since it was only $10 more, I bought the "package" of five carfaxes within 60 days.

So if there's a vehicle that doesn't have a carfax available and you need one, let me know.

stickguy

That Bronze Jetta, at the price, I would not have a problem with keeping it LT if the buyback fell through. especially (and I would likely consider) if they came up with a reasonable fix + cash back, and I could keep it.

henryn

http://www.autocaretoday.net/2013_Volkswagen_Passat_Spring_TX_263711447.veh#

I drove out to look at this one yesterday, 45 minutes in heavy traffic (surprisingly heavy for a Saturday afternoon). The car is fairly nice, very clean, very pretty. And it drove better than I expected, actually. But I could not adjust the seat / seating position so that I was comfortable driving, and my hair did not rub on the roof. I could deal with it temporarily, I have dealt with worse for a few days in a rental car. But my plan here was to keep the car for a full two years plus, use it as my daily driver, and then sell it back for more than I paid. And that is not going to happen.

Another knock on it is the 88k miles. As I recall, these TDI engines require a timing chain replacement at about 100k miles, which runs in the neighborhood of $2,000. And the DSG transmission requires service at every 40k miles, costing about $300 (more at the dealer). With no idea if either of those two services have been performed, well… I wouldn’t worry too much about one with 20 to 40k miles, but at this point in my life I don’t think I want to hassle with a VW diesel with more than 80k miles. On a Ford or a Chevy truck, no big deal, I know what to expect, and where to go to get the work done.

The guy who has the Passat is a small used car dealer, nice friendly guy, and he specializes in Volkswagens, mostly TDIs. He told me has never seem so much interest as in the last week, which is not surprising. I sat in a 2009 Jetta Sportwagen, no sunroof, and had plenty of headroom. But I have no interest in a 2009 with 144k miles. I also sat in a 2014 Golf TDI, with a sunroof, which had beaucoup headroom. Surprising really, I would guess that’s due to the upright shape. But there was a distinct lack of room for my right knee, and the seats were heavily bolstered and did not fit my derriere at all.

But I will say that the market seems to “drying up”. I think people are getting wise, all of the private sellers on AutoTrader in this part of the world are asking very close to the buyback price. And the non-VW dealers are all either not returning calls or saying, “Already sold”.

If I could find a recent model Jetta Sportwagen, under 50k miles, at a fair price, I would write a check on the spot. But the odds of that happening are slim, and getting slimmer by the day. Best of luck to the rest of you who are searching for a deal.

kyfdx

"at a fair price" is the sticking point. '13 Jetta wagon with a stick within 50 miles of me, but asking $20K

stickguy

damn. Now I am really sorry that I wasn't in position to grab that brown Jetta.

qbrozen

I will tell you, however, stick, if you follow the fine print trail of that ad, you'll find they are actually asking $15,995 for it. But I already had him well down from that without even trying hard. Even at $14,995, it is still a good price.

kyfdx

So... don't laugh.. I found this one about 90 minutes away. Carfax shows private owner for last few years, then traded to a non-VW dealer. And, it shows eligible. $16K asking.. Buyout is $22K+ if sharing mod money, or over $25K+, if not. Boatload of miles, but I would actually enjoy driving that one.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/664544686/overview/

BTW, @breld ran the carfax on that Passat, and it was on lease when the news hit in September, and then subsequently spent some time at a VW dealer, which made me worried that it would ultimately be disqualified.

qbrozen

Funny, I found a similar one.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Funny, I found a similar one.

Yup.. that Passat was at an independent that uses AutoCheck, rather than CARFAX. Those reports have less detail on the actual ownership. When breld ran the CARFAX, it gave me pause.

Carfax on this other one looks much better, but frankly, since it has 97K on it, I'd turn it in at first opportunity.

stickguy

I love those A3s. Darn.

kyfdx

It's the downside that worries me, if I don't get the buyback. I love that A3, but if the buyback doesn't happen, it's a car that I never would have purchased with those high miles, for that amount of money.

But, I also don't want to see @breld make all the money, here..

qbrozen

on a whim, I looked through carmax's inventory. They have quite a few VW diesels, including this manual Golf, and this sportwagon.

Problem is, the Golf would only get around $17.6k buyback and the wagon about $22.3k. I guess $4k is nothing to turn my nose up at, but I need $7k to make it work.

qbrozen

This comes pretty close, at roughtly $26,200 buyback.

stever

I'm getting a pretty strong whiff of car fever in here.

stickguy

I really like that Passat.

qbrozen

Me, too. Wonder if carmax would step up on my caddy.

stickguy

If it's clean, just might. Hit up the closest one. If they do, have them send the VW up, and away you go.

I still haven't been to the new car max by me, in Sicklerville.

qbrozen

That's the one I would go to. Carmax was a huge disappointment on the Fit, coming in with the lowest bid of everyone, so I don't have high hopes. I'll try to get down there this week.

Edit: just made an appointment for tomorrow evening. If the number on mine is good, I'll request they transfer the Passat up to NJ. At least with that car, I could see myself driving it for some time before turning it in.

urbansurfer

except that the owner of an Eligible Vehicle who
had an active lease issued by VW Credit, Inc. as of September 18, 2015, and purchased an
Eligible Vehicle previously leased by that owner after June 28, 2016, shall be an Eligible Lessee.

My lease is now up (2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI 51,174 miles) and was wondering if I bought the car from VW Credit, could I change my status to owner. I see from the above statement that's not likely, and I'll remain in the Lessee category. Looks like a well sliced agreement with (many) possibilities pondered.

Even if I could get an attractive BUY NOW figure coming off this lease, and then if there is No Fix for the car in the future, would I be the recognized Owner of the car and be eligible to have them buy it from me at that future time?

What else's nagging me is while in any other year the bill for excess mileage and wear & tear on the car is an expected issue to deal with, but what if this is a model that cannot be modified to meet EPA regs? Then VW scraps the car, so why charge me for excess anything. Instead of realizing a cash benefit, my payout will go right towards the turn-in fees.

breld

I haven't paid too much attention to the terms of the settlement for Lessees, but I did see that same language that you're highlighting above, which seems to state pretty clearly that a Lessee can't buy out their lease after June 28th and become an "Eligible Owner."

It does seem that a lessee's best option is to simply turn the car back in and take the Lessee Restitution, which is basically half of the Buyback Restitution. Though having to pay for excess mileage given the circumstances does sting a bit.

You bring up a good point regarding if you buyout the car and thus become the legal owner - if no EPA fix is approved, I do believe they will have to buy back the car under the DOJ consent, but it may not be under the terms of the settlement agreement.

breld

qbrozen said:

on a whim, I looked through carmax's inventory. They have quite a few VW diesels, including this manual Golf, and this sportwagon.

Problem is, the Golf would only get around $17.6k buyback and the wagon about $22.3k. I guess $4k is nothing to turn my nose up at, but I need $7k to make it work.

Good call - I tend to forget about Carmax since they don't advertise on cars.com. Good luck on the Caddy trade. I personally have found offers from Carmax to be disappointing, but I certainly hope they step up on your CTS.

andres3

henryn said:

http://www.autocaretoday.net/2013_Volkswagen_Passat_Spring_TX_263711447.veh#

I drove out to look at this one yesterday, 45 minutes in heavy traffic (surprisingly heavy for a Saturday afternoon). The car is fairly nice, very clean, very pretty. And it drove better than I expected, actually. But I could not adjust the seat / seating position so that I was comfortable driving, and my hair did not rub on the roof. I could deal with it temporarily, I have dealt with worse for a few days in a rental car. But my plan here was to keep the car for a full two years plus, use it as my daily driver, and then sell it back for more than I paid. And that is not going to happen.

Another knock on it is the 88k miles. As I recall, these TDI engines require a timing chain replacement at about 100k miles, which runs in the neighborhood of $2,000. And the DSG transmission requires service at every 40k miles, costing about $300 (more at the dealer). With no idea if either of those two services have been performed, well… I wouldn’t worry too much about one with 20 to 40k miles, but at this point in my life I don’t think I want to hassle with a VW diesel with more than 80k miles. On a Ford or a Chevy truck, no big deal, I know what to expect, and where to go to get the work done.

Interesting you mention that knowing where to get the work done matters a lot. I wouldn't know where to go with a Ford or Chevy, but I have two excellent choices near me for VW/Audi, and I could probably get them to do a DSG service for around $200 rather than $300. Well worth it in my opinion, as the snap crackle fast pop gear changes are quite satisfying.

P.S. Launch Control doesn't launch if you leave the A/C on like an idiot. Learned that the other day in my TTS. It also seems to make you turn the ESP/ESC not just "sport off" but "full off" which requires holding the button down for a good 3 seconds or so.