VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

kyfdx said:

I'd be interested in hearing from others that have bought since June 28th. If your payout includes the full buyback, or if it's minus half of the modification money?

Obviously not in the buying group, but been following some other boards and the consensus is if you bought after 6/28 you are only being offered 50% initially - at least until after the eligible sellers window closes and they see how much has been used up.

That was in the back of my mind, that it might change after the 45 days are up.

But, I didn't own the car when the crap hit the fan, so it's hard to complain about it. If it bumps up, that would be awesome.

kyfdx

I keep an eye out for more cars.. but, the payoff is always around $2500 or so... and, that isn't worth doubling my risk. lol

Michaell

OK, I've started looking again.

What's this worth as a purchase, and what's the buyback amount?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/673887804/overview/

qbrozen

my $27k number is half the restitution. Previous owner was the dealership, from what I can tell, so it is possible I'll get all, but I'm certainly not counting on it.

qbrozen

Michaell said:

OK, I've started looking again.

What's this worth as a purchase, and what's the buyback amount?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/673887804/overview/

I'm going to assume it is a Premium model. That would put it at about $11k-$11.5k auction value. $14k-$14.5k is about it for retail.

Buyback looks to be about $22.7k.

Michaell

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

OK, I've started looking again.

What's this worth as a purchase, and what's the buyback amount?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/673887804/overview/

I'm going to assume it is a Premium model. That would put it at about $11k-$11.5k auction value. $14k-$14.5k is about it for retail.

Buyback looks to be about $22.7k.

So, if I could get it for $14K, 8% tax takes that to just over $15K.

Registration (damn that personal property tax in CO!) and insurance for a month or two is another $500 or so, and I'm into it for less than $16K.

$6K profit in 60 days (or whenever)?

How do I convince my wife to let me spend the money from our savings account?

andres3

Michaell said:

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

OK, I've started looking again.

What's this worth as a purchase, and what's the buyback amount?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/673887804/overview/

I'm going to assume it is a Premium model. That would put it at about $11k-$11.5k auction value. $14k-$14.5k is about it for retail.

Buyback looks to be about $22.7k.

So, if I could get it for $14K, 8% tax takes that to just over $15K.

Registration (damn that personal property tax in CO!) and insurance for a month or two is another $500 or so, and I'm into it for less than $16K.

$6K profit in 60 days (or whenever)?

How do I convince my wife to let me spend the money from our savings account?

By promising to wash dishes, mow lawns, and deliver pizzas if things don't go as planned with the 6K profit.

Michaell

andres3 said:

Michaell said:

qbrozen said:

Michaell said:

OK, I've started looking again.

What's this worth as a purchase, and what's the buyback amount?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/673887804/overview/

I'm going to assume it is a Premium model. That would put it at about $11k-$11.5k auction value. $14k-$14.5k is about it for retail.

Buyback looks to be about $22.7k.

So, if I could get it for $14K, 8% tax takes that to just over $15K.

Registration (damn that personal property tax in CO!) and insurance for a month or two is another $500 or so, and I'm into it for less than $16K.

$6K profit in 60 days (or whenever)?

How do I convince my wife to let me spend the money from our savings account?

By promising to wash dishes, mow lawns, and deliver pizzas if things don't go as planned with the 6K profit.

The problem is, I do two of those three things already.

And, I just quit the pizza job.

But, it could pay for the custom home office we're talking about.

28firefighter

To clarify, I think the buyback amount if it was purchased before 6/28 would be close to 22k - but you'd only be entitled to half of the restitution, which would make your price more like $19k.

Michaell

28firefighter said:

To clarify, I think the buyback amount if it was purchased before 6/28 would be close to 22k - but you'd only be entitled to half of the restitution, which would make your price more like $19k.

$3k profit on an approximate $16K investment is still almost 19%.

kyfdx

I wouldn't count on it being 60 days. More like 90 days at the minimum, and probably closer to the end of the year.

xwesx

kyfdx said:

I wouldn't count on it being 60 days. More like 90 days at the minimum, and probably closer to the end of the year.

Yeah, they are likely going to have a solid backlog for a while on this, so I'm planning to own it for upwards of a year (hopefully not longer, and assuming, of course, that all goes well in the next 48 hours).

I noticed that there is a Golf in the Anchorage area for sale, and sorta thinking about buying that one, too. The margin is a lot slimmer (~$3K), but my real hesitancy is that I don't really like the car at all.

kyfdx

We have personal property tax that is levied on any car that you own on January 1st. So, if it gets bought before then, great. But, if I own it on 01/01/2017, and am on the hook for $300, then I'll probably keep it at least 6 more months.

28firefighter

Q, what do you think for a 2014 Golf TDI 4 door with DSG, 25k miles in the Seattle area?

Dealer is asking 17k, but just reduced the price. Feels a bit high - maybe by $1500-$2000. What say you?

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Q, what do you think for a 2014 Golf TDI 4 door with DSG, 25k miles in the Seattle area?

Dealer is asking 17k, but just reduced the price. Feels a bit high - maybe by $1500-$2000. What say you?

About $22K buyback, if you only get half of the mod money.

Isn't tax 9.8% there? Need to get it down to $15,500, to get OTD for $17K. That's where I would want to be.

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

Q, what do you think for a 2014 Golf TDI 4 door with DSG, 25k miles in the Seattle area?

Dealer is asking 17k, but just reduced the price. Feels a bit high - maybe by $1500-$2000. What say you?

About $22K buyback, if you only get half of the mod money. Isn't tax 9.8% there? Need to get it down to $15,500, to get OTD for $17K. That's where I would want to be.

My thought exactly. This dealer is a real schlockhouse though, and I don't want to waste my time if its actually worth that much. 

kyfdx

Erie, PA area?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/674725442/overview/

Asking $16K, buyback with half the MOD money is over $23K.

kyfdx

Fort Wayne

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/671885540/overview/

$10.5K asking, $19K buyout

(not for the faint of heart)

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

Fort Wayne https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/671885540/overview/ $10.5K asking, $19K buyout (not for the faint of heart)

Oof. 148k miles?  That is asking for major trouble. 

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

kyfdx said:

Fort Wayne

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/671885540/overview/

$10.5K asking, $19K buyout

(not for the faint of heart)

Oof. 148k miles?  That is asking for major trouble. 

For an $8K payday, you just park it, until the buyout

28firefighter

I'm coming up with 17.5 buyback with those miles.  I might have miscalculated though. 

xwesx

kyfdx said:

Erie, PA area?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/674725442/overview/

Asking $16K, buyback with half the MOD money is over $23K.

That Passat is nice. I was just in Edinboro two months ago! /sigh

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

Q, what do you think for a 2014 Golf TDI 4 door with DSG, 25k miles in the Seattle area?

Dealer is asking 17k, but just reduced the price. Feels a bit high - maybe by $1500-$2000. What say you?

Mid 14s is the auction number, so 17 is already fair.

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

I'm coming up with 17.5 buyback with those miles.  I might have miscalculated though. 

Did you subtract 13,500 miles from the current mileage, before using the chart? (13 months X 1042 mi.)

Disclosure: I did it on the fly in my head.

henryn

Why aren't you using the calculator, which does all of that for you?

Well, except for backing out half of the modification.

https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/


I get (for Indiana, 2014 Jetta Sportwagen, no options, 148k miles, 10 months)


$20,147 buyback, with $5,847 modification. Divide the modification by 2, gives $2,923.50, subtract that from $20,147 and you're left with $17,223.50

henryn

henryn

cand.uscourts.gov/filelibrary/2798/PSC_Preliminary_Approval_Presentation.pdf

This link downloads a PDF file which is basically a powerpoint slide presentation. Open the file separately in Adobe reader after you download, works better than in your web browser.

Slide 7 explains class members and shows vehicles purchased 9/18/2015 - 12/30/2018 are eligible for owners.
Slide 24 deals with totaled vehicles
Slide 27 deals with Eligible Seller Formula

xwesx

Looking over the agreement again, I don't think that anyone who purchased a vehicle after 6/28/16 is eligible to receive any of the 50% "eligible seller" pool of funds. Only people who purchased between 9/18/15 and 6/28/16 fall into this category. The group is called "Post-September 2015 Owner Restitution."

28firefighter

The slides in the PDF above indicate that post-6/28 buyers will get at least 50% of the restitution - possibly more.

28firefighter

So on the 2013 Sportwagen I offered 13,7 OTD and they balked - holding firm around 15k. I'm torn - I have a problem with overpaying on a car on principal, but I'd still clear a decent amount after tax.

xwesx

Henry had me worried for a bit with the presentation slide (#24), but I had to remind myself that this was just some presentation whipped together to try and summarize everything. And, it isn't fully accurate, so that's good. The actual legal document uses the term "Operable" in place of other interpretations like "totalled" or "clean title," etc. (Section VII.F addresses the subject of the presentation's slide 24).

And, of course, the document has a clear definition of operable: "Operable means that the vehicle so described can be driven under its own 2.0-liter TDI engine power."

The additional "gotcha" clause of title branding is point-in-time specific rather than all-encompassing: "A vehicle is not Operable if it had a branded title of “Assembled,” “Dismantled,” “Flood,” “Junk,” “Rebuilt,” “Reconstructed,” or “Salvaged” on September 18, 2015, and was acquired by any person or entity from a junkyard or salvage yard after September 18, 2015." Were this not the case, and branded titles were fully excluded, it would simply say,"A vehicle is not Operable if it has a branded title, including “Assembled,” “Dismantled,” “Flood,” “Junk,” “Rebuilt,” “Reconstructed,” or “Salvaged," rather than saying it had to have a branded title on/before 9/18/15 AND be acquired from a salvage/junk yard after that date.

I can find no other place in legal document where Operable is further restricted or defined.

kyfdx

I think if the title is branded, the vehicle will be deemed ineligible.

But, that's just one person's opinion.

xwesx

kyfdx said:

I think if the title is branded, the vehicle will be deemed ineligible.

But, that's just one person's opinion.

Yeah, I heard that one here before. I have yet to see anyone post support for that from the terms of the settlement, though. What am I missing in there? If there's something there, I really would like to know about it since I am about to buy an affected car tomorrow......

28firefighter

Numerous places within the settlement documentation, it references branded titles being explicitly excluded. Now there is an argument to be made, from the documentation, that it is based upon dates and how you acquired the vehicle, but I would not be intentionally going out and buying a branded title car to try and sell back.

I think odds are better than not that you'll have to put up quite a fight with VW that could cost more than the restitution.

henryn

I agree with @28firefighter and @kyfdx, I would leave this one alone, and look for one without a salvage title.

xwesx

Well, I'm not intentionally buying a branded title car, it is just the only eligible one that is available to me (and really nice, to boot).

Okay, so I searched documents for references to branded title, clean title, etc. Not one mention other than the statement I quoted above. It is possible that there would be an argument to the contrary, but, heck, VW's settlement site FAQ itself states verbatim the agreement: Who is excluded from participating in the class action settlement? As such, if I possess documentation that supports the timing of events, the car is clearly *not* excluded.

That said, this may be a non-starter anyway. I just received a call from the seller saying he made an alternate commitment this weekend due to an emergency, so we'd have to try again in a week (if at all, is how I read his tone! LOL).

andres3

28firefighter said:

So on the 2013 Sportwagen I offered 13,7 OTD and they balked - holding firm around 15k. I'm torn - I have a problem with overpaying on a car on principal, but I'd still clear a decent amount after tax.

Meet in the middle?

28firefighter

Maybe. I'm not in a huge rush - and they've been sitting with the car for a month.

andres3

Searching 500 miles for a gaz guzzling Golf R I find many with sticks, none with DSG. The people have spoken and voted with their wallets. DSG > 6- speed manual.

xwesx

This one is quite lovely. I just can't see going through the effort of getting it, though, knowing that I wouldn't be keeping it long! Given all the logistics of doing so, I'm not sure the margin is really worth it as well. When I strictly look at is as ROI, it's pretty solid, then I factor in the time involved, and I think, "Do I *really* want to do this?"

That's one of the things that makes the "local" car so appealing despite its history: The logistics are just so much simpler! Price (and buyback value) wise, the spread isn't huge between the two.

Sandman6472

Totally beautiful vehicle and love the beige interior, so much nicer than black. looks a lot cleaner also. This one should go fast if it does meet the buy back criteria. Too bad I don't have the stomach to flip these vehicles or a wife who "gets it"! Like some others in here, if bought right, one stands to make a decent profit while driving a nice vehicle around for some time. One just needs the excess cash and the stomach to live with a certain amount of risk. I can definitely see the logic especially if the plan is to just let VW just buy it back from you. One could just park their d d and use the diesel VW they bought just for this purpose.
Like I said, just wish I could do it also!

The Sandman

xwesx

sandman_6472 said:

Totally beautiful vehicle and love the beige interior, so much nicer than black. looks a lot cleaner also. This one should go fast if it does meet the buy back criteria. Too bad I don't have the stomach to flip these vehicles or a wife who "gets it"! Like some others in here, if bought right, one stands to make a decent profit while driving a nice vehicle around for some time. One just needs the excess cash and the stomach to live with a certain amount of risk. I can definitely see the logic especially if the plan is to just let VW just buy it back from you. One could just park their d d and use the diesel VW they bought just for this purpose.
Like I said, just wish I could do it also!

The Sandman

You're not helping my case, Sandy! I just checked out flight options and am strongly considering contacting the dealership. LOL

What I need is a friend in the area. I buy it from here, they pick it up and hold it for me. Then, I'm just in it for the transaction and there is no emotional attachment. I have a BIL on the other side of the state, as well as a friend in Des Moines, but I'm not sure either are close enough to be down with this adventure.

corvette

xwesx, I love the colors on that one. Expect a difficult time from customs and border protection if you drive it back (I will spare you the tale about driving a rented car from Seattle to Vancouver, but suffice it to say I won't be making another trip there). 

qbrozen

That is pretty. If I didn't already buy one, I might have snagged that right from under you.

kyfdx

Hmmm.. Fort Loramie. Less than 2 hours from me. That's a really small town. I didn't even know they had a new car dealership.

It really bugs me when they don't have a link to the carfax.

$6K spread, minus sales tax and acquisition costs. If you could get $1000-$1500 off that price, not bad.

xwesx

I think I'm going to give it a go. My wife said, "I'd just go with the one in Wasilla, but if you're more comfortable with getting that Ohio car, I'm fine with it. Call Steve (her brother) and have him pick it up for you if you're just going to do the buyback." LOL Who is this woman again?

As far as driving through Canada, the trick is to get the title transfer paperwork sent to you first, then you have plates in hand and registration when you go to pick it up. They slap the plates on before you even leave the dealership! I've never dealt with a dealership in the midwest before, but I've had no trouble with that on the west coast (yet). I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if we can work something out.

Q, what's a reasonable price on this one? I was thinking right along the lines of @kyfdx; About $17-17.5K.

kyfdx

xwesx said:

I think I'm going to give it a go. My wife said, "I'd just go with the one in Wasilla, but if you're more comfortable with getting that Ohio car, I'm fine with it. Call Steve (her brother) and have him pick it up for you if you're just going to do the buyback." LOL Who is this woman again?

As far as driving through Canada, the trick is to get the title transfer paperwork sent to you first, then you have plates in hand and registration when you go to pick it up. They slap the plates on before you even leave the dealership! I've never dealt with a dealership in the midwest before, but I've had no trouble with that on the west coast (yet). I'll give them a call tomorrow and see if we can work something out.

Q, what's a reasonable price on this one? I was thinking right along the lines of @kyfdx; About $17-17.5K.

Doc fee in Ohio is restricted by statute to $250. So, naturally, every dealer in Ohio charges $250. Just so you know what will be added. The rest of it.. temporary tags, title, etc should only be $30-$50 or so.

You really want to see the CARFAX, just so you can see what ownership the car has had.

qbrozen

$17.5 is about right if its clean and doesn't need anything right now. Might have to push up to 18 depending on what they put into it.

xwesx

Thanks, both of you. They say "clean Carfax," so I'll see if they actually have it available before I use one of my call #s.

28firefighter

Just missed out on a 1 owner 2014 JSW Sportwagen TDI with Sunroof and 20k miles for $14,9 at a dealer in Jersey. I called to buy it and I missed it by 5 minutes! After tax and shipping I would have cleared 9k...