VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

qbrozen

That is concerningly cheap.

28firefighter

qbrozen said:

That is concerningly cheap.

They're a wholesaler - I checked the carfax - clean one-owner car, traded into a toyota dealership back in April and then sent to auction a couple weeks back.

xwesx

Called them. They have it; the guy is sending me the Carfax. I'll follow up with him after I run off to a meeting now. Darn eastern time zone; makes for some short business days!

xwesx

qbrozen said:

$17.5 is about right if its clean and doesn't need anything right now. Might have to push up to 18 depending on what they put into it.

I had to push up to $18. Still, I'm happy with it and they agreed to pick me up from the airport in Ft. Wayne, which saves me quite a bit versus flying into Dayton (but is a longer drive for them), so all is good thus far. We're just at "verbal handshake" right now; I should get the purchase agreement before the day is out.

Edit: And, agreement in hand. Looks like I have some leg work to do this afternoon.

28firefighter

Can anyone give me a ballpark of what makes sense for a 2013 A3 TDI with 47k miles, Titanium Sport, Moonroof, and Bose in the PNW?

jpp75

qbrozen said:

I was thinking $13.5k before taxes and fees. That's max, though. $13k would of course be better, but I probably wouldn't argue over $500 for something you may sell for $21k shortly thereafter.

I went and drove the Golf today, the A/C is still meh but it does blow cold.

They offered me $14,077.70 before taxes and fees and basically OTD cash price of $15k. I'm not looking to argue over $500 but it still seems overpriced.

On the flip side I did love how it drove, a bit harsh on the road noise though. The OBC posted 41.2 mpg on my 20 mile test drive.

If I could get the $21k buyback I'd write them a check today, but at an $18k buyback I'd prefer to be at $14k OTD. I'll probably offer $14k and then "split the difference"

stickguy

28, I'm in jersey, and it kills me to hear about it. Worse if in my end of jersey!

I should have gone with QB and bought the yet twin to his car.

28firefighter

stickguy said:

28, I'm in jersey, and it kills me to hear about it. Worse if in my end of jersey!

I should have gone with QB and bought the yet twin to his car.

Heh. It was in Wall, NJ - I think that is near Toms River.

stickguy

Real close to QB and Fezo. Not me though

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Can anyone give me a ballpark of what makes sense for a 2013 A3 TDI with 47k miles, Titanium Sport, Moonroof, and Bose in the PNW?

I paid $15K even for mine with none of those options and 97K miles.

I know that is a tough comparison. Wouldn't be surprised if you are pushing $20K, on it.

On the plus side, I love mine..

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

Can anyone give me a ballpark of what makes sense for a 2013 A3 TDI with 47k miles, Titanium Sport, Moonroof, and Bose in the PNW?

I paid $15K even for mine with none of those options and 97K miles. I know that is a tough comparison. Wouldn't be surprised if you are pushing $20K, on it. On the plus side, I love mine..

They're at 21,7 from 23k right now. If we can get it down to 21 I'll likely do it because I really like it. Otherwise I have a line on another. 

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

kyfdx said:

28firefighter said:

Can anyone give me a ballpark of what makes sense for a 2013 A3 TDI with 47k miles, Titanium Sport, Moonroof, and Bose in the PNW?

I paid $15K even for mine with none of those options and 97K miles.

I know that is a tough comparison. Wouldn't be surprised if you are pushing $20K, on it.

On the plus side, I love mine..

They're at 21,7 from 23k right now. If we can get it down to 21 I'll likely do it because I really like it. Otherwise I have a line on another. 

What's the buyback with half the MOD money?

28firefighter

$29,5

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

$29,5

Ah... Not bad

stickguy

You guys are killing me. And I am on vacation.

breld

xwesx said:

Looking over the agreement again, I don't think that anyone who purchased a vehicle after 6/28/16 is eligible to receive any of the 50% "eligible seller" pool of funds. Only people who purchased between 9/18/15 and 6/28/16 fall into this category. The group is called "Post-September 2015 Owner Restitution."

I would say if you purchased after 6/28 you are eligible for 100% of the restitution, since you don't fall into that exclusion. Since owners who sold after 6/28 are ineligible for any compensation, there is no need for the "sharing." The catch is if you're buying from a dealer who took the trade prior to 6/28, there is technically an Eligible Seller out there.

In my case, the previous owner (the dealer) owned it as of 9/18 and sold it after 6/28, so I should not be sharing the restitution.

Having said all that, I'm not counting on it. Though I may make the effort to call and speak to a claims specialist about it.

breld

I did submit my information, and like you all, my estimated buyback is at the 50% restitution, which is what I expected. It was exactly as I estimated, at just over $24k. $16.4k purchase price (before taxes), so not bad. It does seem @qbrozen may be leading in the gross profit. I think he paid about the same as me, for a model year newer. He's also the one who declared this as some form of contest.

xwesx

breld said:

xwesx said:

Looking over the agreement again, I don't think that anyone who purchased a vehicle after 6/28/16 is eligible to receive any of the 50% "eligible seller" pool of funds. Only people who purchased between 9/18/15 and 6/28/16 fall into this category. The group is called "Post-September 2015 Owner Restitution."

I would say if you purchased after 6/28 you are eligible for 100% of the restitution, since you don't fall into that exclusion. Since owners who sold after 6/28 are ineligible for any compensation, there is no need for the "sharing." The catch is if you're buying from a dealer who took the trade prior to 6/28, there is technically an Eligible Seller out there.

In my case, the previous owner (the dealer) owned it as of 9/18 and sold it after 6/28, so I should not be sharing the restitution.

Having said all that, I'm not counting on it. Though I may make the effort to call and speak to a claims specialist about it.

Well, that's the thing.... I can't see that they are doing this on a car-by-car basis. Everyone is lumped into groups: If you purchase after 6/28/16, then you are only eligible for the buyback, which is "buyback" minus 50% of the restitution, as that 50% is being pooled for the "eligible seller" group. If you purchased after 9/18/15 but before 6/28/16, then you fall into the "Post" group wherein you can receive part of that 50% restitution not claimed by the eligible seller group. But, it is not "if your car's ES didn't claim, then you get the full 50;" rather, it is, this % of the total pool didn't claim, so we have 42% of that 50% left, and now we're going to divide that up and distribute to everyone in the Post-September owner group."

It is tricky wording individually, so any of us could be misinterpreting it.

When writing that, I was looking at the FTC consent decree (the documents don't all contain all of the same wording, so I am not sure what all applies.... it is everything from all documents, some, none, other? LOL):

Page 10, line 14 (see the sections JJ and KK in definitions) describes the post 9/15/16 owner information. I was thinking it was Page 19 line 25 that described the situation quoted above, but now I'm not so sure. I think this section actually describes eligible owners who had the car prior to 9/18/15. Then, the following section, F, on the next page describes the Post-9/18/15 group. In the FTC document, I don't see where post 6/28/16 is covered at all, but I'd have to re-read it again now and I'm just too tired tonight!

I hope you're right in your interpretation breld, as the PO of the car I'm buying traded it in after 6/28/16, so, if done individually, then I could get 100%. I'm not holding my breath on that, though.

kyfdx

I'm only counting on the 50%. But, it would be awesome if the original owner doesn't claim, and I get bumped up.

The only thing that makes me feel that might be possible? They only have 45 days to claim, and the buybacks can't start until that period is over. If you can't get a bump, why wait?

I went from being the biggest skeptic, to voting with my wallet. lol

henryn

kyfdx said:

I'm only counting on the 50%. But, it would be awesome if the original owner doesn't claim, and I get bumped up.

The only thing that makes me feel that might be possible? They only have 45 days to claim, and the buybacks can't start until that period is over. If you can't get a bump, why wait?

I went from being the biggest skeptic, to voting with my wallet. lol

Exactly where I'm at. I, too, voted with my wallet, based only on the 50%. Anything more would be an extra added bonus. Right now, my thinking is to hold on to the car for a year or two (why not use it for free?) If they were to bump that to 100% of the modification, that would be an extra $3k, and I would probably sell back immediately to avoid the risk of losing out in case an accident were to total the car.

xwesx

Well, that "own for free" all depends on your costs of ownership. The way I look at it, every month I have it cuts into my profit margin due to insurance and interest (very little on that mark).

And, you may have maintenance/repairs along the way, too.

qbrozen

28firefighter said:

Can anyone give me a ballpark of what makes sense for a 2013 A3 TDI with 47k miles, Titanium Sport, Moonroof, and Bose in the PNW?

$20k-$21k

henryn

xwesx said:

Well, that "own for free" all depends on your costs of ownership. The way I look at it, every month I have it cuts into my profit margin due to insurance and interest (very little on that mark).

And, you may have maintenance/repairs along the way, too.

I'm thinking in terms of depreciation. The 2006 Cadillac DTS that I recently sold cost me about $200 in depreciation per month. If I keep this TDI for 2 years with zero depreciation, I just saved $4,800. Many on here have talked about depreciation running from $500 to $800 per month on their cars.

I am not paying interest, so forget that. Insurance? Well, I always have two vehicles anyway, so no extra cost there. Maintenance/repairs is another matter altogether, but this car seems really solid to me, so ...


We shall see.

28firefighter

Dealer wouldn't come down from 21,7. At the number it's just too expensive even though it's in great shape and it has all of its service history. 

xwesx

henryn said:

xwesx said:

Well, that "own for free" all depends on your costs of ownership. The way I look at it, every month I have it cuts into my profit margin due to insurance and interest (very little on that mark).

And, you may have maintenance/repairs along the way, too.

I'm thinking in terms of depreciation. The 2006 Cadillac DTS that I recently sold cost me about $200 in depreciation per month. If I keep this TDI for 2 years with zero depreciation, I just saved $4,800. Many on here have talked about depreciation running from $500 to $800 per month on their cars.

I am not paying interest, so forget that. Insurance? Well, I always have two vehicles anyway, so no extra cost there. Maintenance/repairs is another matter altogether, but this car seems really solid to me, so ...


We shall see.

Ah, yes, good call! I was not considering depreciation. Nice, actually; a non-depreciating car (assuming mileage is reasonably low)! But, now that you say that, my car, when I get home from Ohio, is going to be "worth" $500 less than when I bought it.... at least for a little while. It only has 43,000 miles now, so it gets a bump from that, but 4,000 miles in a few days is going to eat into that.

xwesx

28firefighter said:

Dealer wouldn't come down from 21,7. At the number it's just too expensive even though it's in great shape and it has all of its service history. 

So, you're $700 "off" from your target, with a $7,800 value spread between purchase and buyback (w/ 50% mod) as of right now. What is the other piece of this that eats into that margin?

28firefighter

xwesx said:

Dealer wouldn't come down from 21,7. At the number it's just too expensive even though it's in great shape and it has all of its service history. 

So, you're $700 "off" from your target, with a $7,800 value spread between purchase and buyback (w/ 50% mod) as of right now. What is the other piece of this that eats into that margin?

Sales tax at 9.8%. After taxes and fees it drops the amount I would clear under 5k which is my line for tying up the cash. 

henryn

28firefighter said:

xwesx said:

Dealer wouldn't come down from 21,7. At the number it's just too expensive even though it's in great shape and it has all of its service history. 

So, you're $700 "off" from your target, with a $7,800 value spread between purchase and buyback (w/ 50% mod) as of right now. What is the other piece of this that eats into that margin?

Sales tax at 9.8%. After taxes and fees it drops the amount I would clear under 5k which is my line for tying up the cash. 

-=-=-=-=-=-=- end of quote -=-=-=-=-=-=-

Which is why I worked from the OTD price on all of the TDIs that I considered. The top line, and all of the in-between lines, do not matter, they are less than a f___ in a whirlwind. Only the bottom line.

My number (buyback minus half the modification, subtract the OTD price) was $4,098. Which was good enough for me. I might not have taken the plunge if my only motivation was selling it back as quickly as possible. But I am somewhat intrigued by the idea of owning a car for more than 2 years with zero depreciation.

And I kinda / sorta like the car, too.

28firefighter

My concern is that the car I'm looking at is out of warranty. So I want to flip it as quickly as possible before major repairs.

breld

xwesx said:

Looking over the agreement again, I don't think that anyone who purchased a vehicle after 6/28/16 is eligible to receive any of the 50% "eligible seller" pool of funds. Only people who purchased between 9/18/15 and 6/28/16 fall into this category. The group is called "Post-September 2015 Owner Restitution."

I would say if you purchased after 6/28 you are eligible for 100% of the restitution, since you don't fall into that exclusion. Since owners who sold after 6/28 are ineligible for any compensation, there is no need for the "sharing." The catch is if you're buying from a dealer who took the trade prior to 6/28, there is technically an Eligible Seller out there. In my case, the previous owner (the dealer) owned it as of 9/18 and sold it after 6/28, so I should not be sharing the restitution. Having said all that, I'm not counting on it. Though I may make the effort to call and speak to a claims specialist about it.

Well, that's the thing.... I can't see that they are doing this on a car-by-car basis. Everyone is lumped into groups: If you purchase after 6/28/16, then you are only eligible for the buyback, which is "buyback" minus 50% of the restitution, as that 50% is being pooled for the "eligible seller" group. If you purchased after 9/18/15 but before 6/28/16, then you fall into the "Post" group wherein you can receive part of that 50% restitution not claimed by the eligible seller group. But, it is not "if your car's ES didn't claim, then you get the full 50;" rather, it is, this % of the total pool didn't claim, so we have 42% of that 50% left, and now we're going to divide that up and distribute to everyone in the Post-September owner group." It is tricky wording individually, so any of us could be misinterpreting it. When writing that, I was looking at the FTC consent decree (the documents don't all contain all of the same wording, so I am not sure what all applies.... it is everything from all documents, some, none, other? LOL): Page 10, line 14 (see the sections JJ and KK in definitions) describes the post 9/15/16 owner information. I was thinking it was Page 19 line 25 that described the situation quoted above, but now I'm not so sure. I think this section actually describes eligible owners who had the car prior to 9/18/15. Then, the following section, F, on the next page describes the Post-9/18/15 group. In the FTC document, I don't see where post 6/28/16 is covered at all, but I'd have to re-read it again now and I'm just too tired tonight! I hope you're right in your interpretation breld, as the PO of the car I'm buying traded it in after 6/28/16, so, if done individually, then I could get 100%. I'm not holding my breath on that, though.

Yeah, the "post 6/28" buyers don't seem to be specifically addressed.  The VW settlement documents, for the most part, simply distinguish between purchases before 9/18 and after 9/18.

The FTC consent, as you pointed out, has the following language when describing the buyback compensation:

D. Except as provided in Subsection F and G, and except for Eligible Owners who purchased their Eligible Vehicles after September 18, 2015 but before June 28, 2016, Defendant shall pay each Eligible Owner who elects to participate in the Buyback the sum of...

So, the way I read it, we are not part of that carve out, since we purchased after June 28, and we simply get the "normal" buyback.

Not gonna cry about it if it doesn't turn out that way though.  

xwesx

breld said:

>So, the way I read it, we are not part of that carve out, since we purchased after June 28, and we simply get the "normal" buyback.

Not gonna cry about it if it doesn't turn out that way though.  

Well, I read it that way too, so I think it will be good either way (full buyback or buyback less 50% of mod restitution). I'm about to fly 4,000 miles to drive another 4,000. So, whether or not I cry about it will depend on how comfortable those seats are after four solid days of driving!

Are you home now? If so, how was the JSW on the long drive?

xwesx

28firefighter said:

xwesx said:

Dealer wouldn't come down from 21,7. At the number it's just too expensive even though it's in great shape and it has all of its service history. 

So, you're $700 "off" from your target, with a $7,800 value spread between purchase and buyback (w/ 50% mod) as of right now. What is the other piece of this that eats into that margin?

Sales tax at 9.8%. After taxes and fees it drops the amount I would clear under 5k which is my line for tying up the cash. 


Ouch! 9.8%; that's just cruel. I have to recall how fortunate I am (sometimes) to not need to deal with that; at least not yet!

tifighter

xwesx said:

28firefighter said:

xwesx said:

Dealer wouldn't come down from 21,7. At the number it's just too expensive even though it's in great shape and it has all of its service history. 

So, you're $700 "off" from your target, with a $7,800 value spread between purchase and buyback (w/ 50% mod) as of right now. What is the other piece of this that eats into that margin?

Sales tax at 9.8%. After taxes and fees it drops the amount I would clear under 5k which is my line for tying up the cash. 


Ouch! 9.8%; that's just cruel. I have to recall how fortunate I am (sometimes) to not need to deal with that; at least not yet!
-------------------
Well, at least there is no state income tax in WA. I was happy to return after a few years in California...

28firefighter

I have no complaints about it - it just adds a significant swing to these calculations.

stickguy

I'm still made I did not trade my wife's RDX in on the twin to Q's wagon. I think I finally convinced her that it made sense. Especially after playing up the nice MDX should could have gotten for Christmas.

kyfdx

@xwesx Is it really cheaper to fly into Ft Wayne? That surprises me.

Did you check Cincinnati?

kyfdx

autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2014&zip=45202&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&maxPrice=22000&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=%5BAUDI%5BA3%5B%5D%5D%5B%5DVOLKS%5B%5D%5B%5D%5D&modelCode1=A3&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&sortBy=distanceASC&makeCode2=VOLKS&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=2010&makeCode1=AUDI&firstRecord=0&maxMileage=150000&searchRadius=500&minPrice=6000&listingId=434688616&Log=0

$12K asking. $16,200 with half the MOD money.

kyfdx

$17K - $11,650 asking

High mileage 2012 Passat

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2014&zip=45202&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&maxPrice=22000&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=[AUDI[A3[]][]VOLKS[][]]&modelCode1=A3&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&sortBy=distanceASC&makeCode2=VOLKS&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=2010&makeCode1=AUDI&firstRecord=0&maxMileage=150000&searchRadius=500&minPrice=6000&listingId=435361218&Log=0

kyfdx

2012 A3. $24.3K with half, $17.3K asking.
This is the best spread found in a while.

http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?endYear=2014&zip=45202&listingType=used&listingTypes=used&maxPrice=22000&showcaseListingId=0&mmt=[AUDI[A3[]][]]&modelCode1=A3&fuelTypeGroup=DSL&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=0&startYear=2010&makeCode1=AUDI&firstRecord=0&maxMileage=150000&searchRadius=500&minPrice=6000&listingId=428945805&Log=0

xwesx

kyfdx said:

@xwesx Is it really cheaper to fly into Ft Wayne? That surprises me.

Did you check Cincinnati?

For me, it is a lot more to Dayton because I cannot use air miles there, which means it would be ~$400 (min), versus $19 (plus miles, so there's an opportunity cost there). Cincinnati is an option, too, but is significantly further from the dealership than either of the others (about 35 miles further than Ft. Wayne).

kyfdx

What airline and what day are you coming?

xwesx

Haven't worked out the specifics yet, because the when part depends on when I have my plates in hand. I wanted to get the payment initiated yesterday, but the dealer said he would be unable to provide the information until Monday morning (they were mostly closed yesterday), so I need the payment to clear so they will send the title transfer paperwork, then I should be able to get things squared away. If I can get that done by Wednesday, I'll try to be there Friday; if not, I'll see if I can coordinate a Saturday arrival with the dealer.

It looks like the local carrier (commuter flight) from Chicago is likely American, possibly Delta depending on the actual flight chosen. My hope is that I can catch a flight out of here on Friday to get me in there Saturday morning (if that works for the dealer). Otherwise, I'll have to wait a week.

28firefighter

How much would your time, flights and mileage on the car cost you compared with shipping it?

kyfdx

@xwesx Check to see if Cincinnati bound flights are better. If it's Saturday morning, I could run you up to Dayton to meet up with your dealership contact. I'm not far from the CVG airport.

kyfdx

Red eye flight.. leaves Seattle at 11:10 pm. .gets into Cincinnati at 6:25 AM. If you can get to Seattle on time, on Friday. (Delta)

xwesx

kyfdx said:

@xwesx Check to see if Cincinnati bound flights are better. If it's Saturday morning, I could run you up to Dayton to meet up with your dealership contact. I'm not far from the CVG airport.

Thanks for the offer! I'll check on Cincinnati and get back to you on that! Edit - CVG is an option, it seems....

I need to get a better idea of the timing before I commit to anything at this point. As for the shipping, it would be a lot more.

A reasonable estimate would be about $3,000 delivered to the port in Anchorage (about 360 miles from me), and up to $500 more all the way to Fairbanks. If I had to ship it, I would just leave it down there with a friend or relative. Driving it will likely run me $400-600, depending on how extravagant I want to be while driving home, but total time should be at or under five days from leave to arrive.

28firefighter

Okay - that is a considerable savings!

henryn

That would not work for me. $500 spent on the road, $500 lost value on the buyback (due to miles), losing a week of work (which would cost me about $2k gross). No, I would have to pass. Good luck with that, hope it works out for you.

corvette

I think akangl has dealt with similar issues before. With some of the lower volume brands, there may be only one dealership in the entire state of Alaska. Regardless, the vehicle market there is different than the CONUS due to the cost, expense, and frustration of importing a vehicle from the lower 48 (or from Canada). Alaska sellers and dealers generally take this into account in pricing their vehicles. Also, if the dealership is one of the brands where they are the only dealer of that brand in the entire state, they may treat customers poorly because it's pretty much the only way they can get a Brand X vehicle.

xwesx

henryn said:

That would not work for me. $500 spent on the road, $500 lost value on the buyback (due to miles), losing a week of work (which would cost me about $2k gross). No, I would have to pass. Good luck with that, hope it works out for you.

I think it will, and I should be able to negate many of the miles by limiting use over the next few months.