VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

breld

xwesx said:

breld said:

>So, the way I read it, we are not part of that carve out, since we purchased after June 28, and we simply get the "normal" buyback.

Not gonna cry about it if it doesn't turn out that way though.  

Well, I read it that way too, so I think it will be good either way (full buyback or buyback less 50% of mod restitution). I'm about to fly 4,000 miles to drive another 4,000. So, whether or not I cry about it will depend on how comfortable those seats are after four solid days of driving!

Are you home now? If so, how was the JSW on the long drive?

Yup - got home earlier this evening. My wife was the driver of the JSW for the most part, and she really enjoyed it. It was familiar to her based on our past couple GTIs, and she said she felt more comfortable driving the smaller car than the Minivan or the X5 that we had planned on taking. Her parents were passengers for much of the time, and they had no complaints either, which says a lot considering the length of the road trip.

The trip computer claimed an average mpg of about 41, which probably makes sense based on all the highway driving.

The only concern was that I was planning on replacing the tires soon, but hadn't gotten around to it. And since it was a last minute trade that put the JSW into the road trip, we weren't able to do anything about it. Fortunately, there were no issues along the way.

xwesx

So you were stuck driving the van full of kids?! Perfect.

You mentioned that you were looking forward to getting some seat time in the JSW, so I thought maybe your arrangement was to swap vehicles for the drive home. At any rate, welcome home!

nyccarguy

@breld - welcome back! How many total miles did you drive for the trip? We should compare #s between your van, your JSW, & my Pilot.

nyccarguy

For the buyback gurus: I have a customer who is the original owner of a 2014 Passat TDI SE w/ Sunroof. 41K miles. What would his buyback & restitution be? Thanks!

henryn

Aw, come on now. This isn't rocket science.

https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/

Fill in the fields, the number at the bottom under "Buyback" is what he should get. If he bought the car after September of 2015 (not true in this case), then he would need to subtract half of the amount under modification.


If they do come up with a "fix" (not yet determined), then he could opt to keep the car, and receive a payment for the "modification" amount.

nyccarguy

Thanks @henryn! So it looks like a $27,827 buyback plus $7,127 in restitution? Nice!

nyccarguy

btw @henryn, this is a very dangerous tool for me to have in my possession! You all have been warned! LOL!

Michaell

nyccarguy said:

@breld - welcome back! How many total miles did you drive for the trip? We should compare #s between your van, your JSW, & my Pilot.

It's about 1100 miles from Denver to LA; double that, plus whatever around town driving they did while they were there.

Probably not more than 2500 miles, total.

But, remember the elevation change that entails. Your drive to FL and back saw what, maybe a few hundred feet total? There are a couple of 10,000+ foot passes in CO, and a smaller pass between Las Vegas and LA.

kyfdx

nyccarguy said:

Thanks @henryn! So it looks like a $27,827 buyback plus $7,127 in restitution? Nice!

No... the buyback number includes the restitution.

Maybe, it IS rocket science.

Also, I always change the assumed months to 13, as that is as early as you can probably get a buyback. Of course, if you are still driving 1000 mi/month, the 10 month number will be accurate.

nyccarguy

kyfdx said:

nyccarguy said:

Thanks @henryn! So it looks like a $27,827 buyback plus $7,127 in restitution? Nice!

No... the buyback number includes the restitution.

Maybe, it IS rocket science.

Also, I always change the assumed months to 13, as that is as early as you can probably get a buyback. Of course, if you are still driving 1000 mi/month, the 10 month number will be accurate.

Ok. Now I understand. Thanks for clarifying.

henryn

Okay, let’s try this again. And maybe we need a “sticky” for this.

VW starts with the average trade in value as of September, 2015 (immediately prior to the scandal becoming known). That trade in value depends (partly) on the number of miles. So they use a time machine, a “way back” machine if you will, to transport you back in time. Basically that means they subtract 1,042 miles for each month since September of 2015. This is based (as I understand it) on the “average miles driven per year” being 12,500, so divide 12,500 by 12 and you get 1,042 miles per month.

So in your specific example, the car has 41,000 miles. The “way back” machine subtracts 10,420 miles (10 months since September of 2015 times 1,042 miles per month), and we come up with an “average trade in value in September of 2015, with 31k miles” and that number is $20,700. To which we then add the modification amount, which is kinda sorta like a penalty that VW is paying for having misled you about the car. That modification amount (in your specific case) is $7,127. Add the two together, and you get the $27,827 that VW will pay you for the car, if you sell it back to them. That amount does not change as long as you adhere to +/- 1,000 miles per month. More miles, and your buyback number will go down because the adjusted mileage will go up. Less miles, and your buyback number could actually go up.

Now here is one of the more interesting, and most commonly overlooked, parts of the whole deal. You can keep the car until late 2018, use it for more than 2 years, and still get the “average trade in value from September of 2015”. What we’re talking about here is zero depreciation, and for more than two years.

For those of us who purchased AFTER the scandal broke (September of 2015), we only get half of the modification (or penalty) amount. That penalty or modification amount is $7,127 in your case. The owner (as of September 2015) is entitled to half of the $7,127, and the present owner gets the other half. So for this car, if I purchased it now, I would get $27,827 minus ( $7,127 / 2), or $24,263.50

And that last part is subject to change or interpretation or … What happens if the guy who owned it in September of 2015 doesn’t file with VW to get his half of the $7,127? Do you get it? Does VW get to keep it? I have seen some remarks about a pool of unclaimed money, with various comments about what would be done with it. I have seen some comments online about how only 30% of the TDI owners in the US actually registered with VW to get their $1,000 ($500 x 2) Goodwill payments.


https://agrahamg.github.io/VWBuybackCalculator/

qbrozen

All I know is, I'm still winning.

kyfdx

@henryn That is a good synopsis.

Now this: There is a deadline to make a claim, but is there a deadline to purchase a vehicle, and still be able to make a claim? Can I buy one of these cars in June of 2018 and submit a claim the next month?

qbrozen

I thought there was a deadline to submit your decision as to what option you are taking, and that deadline is in the not-too-far future.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

I thought there was a deadline to submit your decision as to what option you are taking, and that deadline is in the not-too-far future.

True, but it's not a hard deadline. Once you make it, you can change it. For instance, I've chosen the buyback, but I can call and change that to, "I'll wait to see what happens with the modification", and then change back to, "Never mind, I'll take the buyback". I think I can do that, ad infinitum.

qbrozen

Oh, I found the difference. If you were a PREVIOUS owner, your deadline is Sept 2016, but if you are a NEW or CURRENT owner, your deadline is Sept 1, 2018.

Interesting. Gotta wonder if you could even find any by then. Hell, someone could make quite a profitable little business out of that. Find uneducated sellers of TDI models and flip them to VW.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Oh, I found the difference. If you were a PREVIOUS owner, your deadline is Sept 2016, but if you are a NEW or CURRENT owner, your deadline is Sept 1, 2018.

Interesting. Gotta wonder if you could even find any by then. Hell, someone could make quite a profitable little business out of that. Find uneducated sellers of TDI models and flip them to VW.

I thought of trying to find another one, but as of yet, the payout is theoretical. But, if I actually get a buyback before the end of the year, and feel comfortable with it, I might try to re-invest and flip another one.

henryn

kyfdx said:

@henryn That is a good synopsis.

Now this: There is a deadline to make a claim, but is there a deadline to purchase a vehicle, and still be able to make a claim? Can I buy one of these cars in June of 2018 and submit a claim the next month?

My understanding is that "yes, you can." I have seen (somewhere) that you have until September of 2018 to submit your claim (buyback or fix), and then until December of 2018 to turn over the car for the buyback option.

The fact of the matter is, VW has to get these cars fixed or off the road. Period, end of story.

I do believe that at some point the people who presently own TDIs are going to wise up, and quit selling them so cheaply. (smile)

xwesx

henryn said:

I do believe that at some point the people who presently own TDIs are going to wise up, and quit selling them so cheaply. (smile)

That is another fact of the matter, for sure!

kyfdx

An Audi in NJ for @stickguy https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/675690400/overview/

Buyback minus half the MOD money is over $20K. Asking price is $14,699.

It's not too late!

henryn

It looks like Audi's have the lead on buyback value. Maybe because the resale value hasn't gone up, because no one is associating them with the buyback?

stickguy

sounds nice. I always liked the A3. But, sadly, I still have no provision for buying a car now. Maybe there will be some left next November! As in 2017.

that one, would be about 16.2K on the road at that price. so little less than 4K profit, minus carrying costs. would still consider if I needed a car right now, to drive until 12/2018

Michaell

Does this guy not know what he's got?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/675869563/overview/

Can't imagine how much profit there is here....

Michaell

Michaell said:

Does this guy not know what he's got?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/675869563/overview/

Can't imagine how much profit there is here....

I just used the calculator ...

If I'm reading this correctly, the buyback is $24,587, and the modification amount is $6587. Half of that is $3293, so $27,880 total.

Wow. $14K profit?

What am I missing?

breld

nyccarguy said:

@breld - welcome back! How many total miles did you drive for the trip? We should compare #s between your van, your JSW, & my Pilot.

Thanks @nyccarguy! I didn't log the exact miles, but it was a bit more than 1,000 miles each way just from Denver to Anaheim. Add in the commuting to and from the parks each day, and I bet we put on around 2,200 miles or so on each vehicle. Nice to put those on the JSW, since it already has low miles and we're just turning it back in at some point.

kyfdx

Michaell said:

Michaell said:

Does this guy not know what he's got?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/675869563/overview/

Can't imagine how much profit there is here....

I just used the calculator ...

If I'm reading this correctly, the buyback is $24,587, and the modification amount is $6587. Half of that is $3293, so $27,880 total.

Wow. $14K profit?

What am I missing?

The buyback includes the full modification. You actually have to subtract half of the modification amount from the buyback.

28firefighter

That Passat still seems priced too low. I'm thinking fake ad or salvage title. 

Michaell

kyfdx said:

Michaell said:

Michaell said:

Does this guy not know what he's got?

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/675869563/overview/

Can't imagine how much profit there is here....

I just used the calculator ...

If I'm reading this correctly, the buyback is $24,587, and the modification amount is $6587. Half of that is $3293, so $27,880 total.

Wow. $14K profit?

What am I missing?

The buyback includes the full modification. You actually have to subtract half of the modification amount from the buyback.

Ah, so $21,294. Still about $8K

28firefighter said:

That Passat still seems priced too low. I'm thinking fake ad or salvage title. 

I had the same thoughts. What's strange is that the ad says the car is 53 miles from my home town in Southern California, but the phone number has a Sacramento area code.

stever

I'm trying to do a little business with a woman here and I was wondering about her San Fran phone number. Turns out she grew up there and has such fond memories she just had to snag a cell with that area code, although she hasn't lived there for 30 years.

With portable numbers, you just never know any more.

qbrozen

well, his description doesn't exactly give me the warm and fuzzies. He could have gotten about $12k as a trade, so its not scary cheap, but cheap enough. Could be in rougher shape than we know.

Michaell

stever said:

I'm trying to do a little business with a woman here and I was wondering about her San Fran phone number. Turns out she grew up there and has such fond memories she just had to snag a cell with that area code, although she hasn't lived there for 30 years.

With portable numbers, you just never know any more.

True enough ... when I was signing up for my corporate cell phone, I had a choice of area codes:

650 - Palo Alto (company HQ)
303 or 720 - metro Denver

stever

Our Michigan friend that we dragged here still uses her Bethel, Alaska number.

nyccarguy

Had a thought on the way in this AM. Would this work out if someone were to assume a lease via swap-a-lease or lease trader?

xwesx

nyccarguy said:

Had a thought on the way in this AM. Would this work out if someone were to assume a lease via swap-a-lease or lease trader?

No. The terms specifically state that third-party lessees are not "eligible."

nyccarguy

xwesx said:

nyccarguy said:

Had a thought on the way in this AM. Would this work out if someone were to assume a lease via swap-a-lease or lease trader?

No. The terms specifically state that third-party lessees are not "eligible."

RATS

xwesx

Everything is coming together on the Passat. I'll be in Ohio next Saturday (13), and hopefully home by Tuesday night or Wednesday morning.

stickguy

I have been keeping my wife up to speed on the TDI deal. especially when I was trying to sell her car to get in on it.

she thought going from Kentucky to Indiana was odd. But she thinks you are totally nuts.

Michaell

On that Passat I found in SoCal, I'm thinking of asking my friend to go see it.

And, perhaps we'll split the purchase price - and the profits. That way, I don't have to bring it back to CO - it can stay a local car and flip it as quickly as we can.

So long as it's not a salvage title, I have to say I'm intrigued.

fintail

This is amusing. I know xwesx has been itching for a diesel for some time. This was enough to push him over the line to sample the other side. Have a fun drive, should be a good time of year for travel.

nyccarguy

What's the deadline to make a claim?

henryn

September of 2018, with turn in no later than December of 2018.

kyfdx

stickguy said:

I have been keeping my wife up to speed on the TDI deal. especially when I was trying to sell her car to get in on it.

she thought going from Kentucky to Indiana was odd. But she thinks you are totally nuts.

You know, even though the dealer was 113 miles from my house, it's only 28 miles to Indiana from here.

It's like you going to Pennsylvania.

@xwesx Still flying into Fort Wayne?

stickguy

ah. well, for some reason, I thought it was further.

what do I know about the midwest?

Fairbanks to Indiana, even I know that is a haul.

kyfdx

Okay.. this is one of the better payoffs.
http://www.siskautomall.com/used/Volkswagen/2013-Volkswagen-Jetta+SportWagen-408a5b9e0a0e0a17689cb50d6109d439.htm

$20K payout (buyout minus 1/2 mod). $13K asking

stickguy

Lot of miles on that one

Michaell

stickguy said:

Lot of miles on that one

So?

This isn't for DD duty; this is a pure flip.

xwesx

fintail said:

This is amusing. I know xwesx has been itching for a diesel for some time. This was enough to push him over the line to sample the other side. Have a fun drive, should be a good time of year for travel.

You're not wrong, fintail!

Every other time I mentioned a diesel to my wife, she literally brushed me off in passing. This time, while she was skeptical at first, I walked through the whole thing with her, and she was actually supportive of doing it (despite this whole thing starting with the salvaged title Passat in Wasilla). I spoke to her about all of the back and forth we had on here regarding salvage titles, etc., and, while she acknowledged that the risk was higher with that one, she was comfortable with me proceeding. Then, when I showed her the Ohio car, she just said, "I'm jealous! Have a fun trip!"

So, yeah, I'm all in on this. I just hope I have the resolve to let it go when the time comes (and that my wife will no longer be anti-diesel)....

xwesx

kyfdx said:

@xwesx Still flying into Fort Wayne?

I am.

By the time I decided to stop waiting on my bank to get their *bleep* together and buy it out of pocket, the flights this weekend were gone, as well as available mileage flights into Cincinnati until later in the month. The dealer was good with a Saturday morning pickup, so I figured that was as close to aligned as the stars were going to get! Ironically, once I purchased the ticket for next weekend, everything else started coming together as well (just slower than preferred).

If you're interested in getting together for lunch that day before I shoot north, I am down for it!

Stick, I am definitely a bit nuts; life is much more interesting if you always keep a few rattling around in the can.

kyfdx

@xwesx I'll consider that, but the dealership is a good 90 minutes from me. That's a long way for lunch, even with an interesting conversationalist, such as yourself. I would have been happy to run you up there, if you had needed me, though.

Hope everything works out.

kyfdx

Anyone notice on the VW Court Settlement webpage? When it tells you that the vehicle is eligible, it no longer gives you the year and model/trim.