VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

kyfdx

They have the FBI making sure you aren't a VW employee

mjfloyd1

Who among us will be the first to buy a 3.0 TDI hoping for another buyback...

28firefighter

I was thinking about it. I'm legitimately worried though that if they have to settle up on the 3.0 TDIs, that they'll end up bankrupt.

stickguy

a good reason to not have my daughter buy out the Jetta lease in 2 years when she graduates.

since my son is in the process of buying an Audi, hopefully they stay around!

mjfloyd1

28firefighter said:

I was thinking about it. I'm legitimately worried though that if they have to settle up on the 3.0 TDIs, that they'll end up bankrupt.

Valid point.

xwesx

mjfloyd1 said:

Who among us will be the first to buy a 3.0 TDI hoping for another buyback...

I'm thinking about a 3.0, but not for buyback purposes. I actually want to keep that one (regardless of what happens on the litigation).

henryn

I haven't seen any 3.0 TDI's that fit in my budget... I would be interested, I actually like this Passat with the 2.0 TDI.

corvette

mjfloyd1 said:

Who among us will be the first to buy a 3.0 TDI hoping for another buyback...

They've already admitted they're going to have to buy back the early 3.0 TDIs, but think they can fix the more recent ones. No word on the buyback figures, though. As I've previously said, if the numbers work, I'd pick up a 3.0 in a heartbeat. If I weren't concerned VW might go bankrupt and renege on the deal, I'd consider dumping the Murano and holding the 3.0 for the full two year period before turning it in.

kyfdx

The court stated that one reason for approving the settlement, was that while the class might have achieved a larger settlement at trial, that would be for naught, if it caused VW to go bankrupt.

VW is the 2nd largest auto manufacturer in the world. Possible bankruptcy doesn't concern me. Seems they wouldn't have agreed to the settlement, if that was the intention.

From this experience, you'll have to move fast on the 3.0 models. If I'm rid of the A3, I wouldn't hesitate to do it again, assuming I'm certain of the settlement amount.

jicbulk

Hi Folks - recently visited a dealer expressing interest in a VW. Was told that I need to act fast, as ~1300 TDI people are coming in starting now as part of the settlement. This will deplete inventory which will drive up pricing, and the incentives that exist now won't be there in a month or two. While I understand the concept of supply, demand, and market pricing, this seems like a bit of Sales Guy pressure, especially when I'm looking at a GTI, not a diesel model.

Thoughts?

qbrozen

What he means is these people will need vehicles and maybe they'll buy another VW. They obviously can't sell diesels now, so those people will be buying gas vehicles, IF they stick with VW, and I think that is a BIG IF.

kyfdx

My friend had a VW coming off lease, and I went with him to check out a new Passat. Believe me, they have plenty of inventory. They are also cutting aggressive deals.

An average sized dealership with an average number of returned cars will process about 700-800 buybacks over two years. Most of those probably in the first six months (my guess, here).

Will that produce extra sales? Probably. But, if they really thought there would be a shortage, would they cut great deals now? Not likely. Mostly sales BS. That is their job. To create a sense of urgency.

But, there aren't great deals on GTIs that I can see. No need to be in a hurry. Plus, how many TDI people are going to be looking for a GTI?

28firefighter

Agree 100% - sounds like fake urgency to try and get you to buy. 

There are incredible deals floating around for GTIs if you're on the east coast. 2017s selling for 4000-5000 off from what I'm seeing. 

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

Agree 100% - sounds like fake urgency to try and get you to buy. 

There are incredible deals floating around for GTIs if you're on the east coast. 2017s selling for 4000-5000 off from what I'm seeing. 

A lot of those deals fall apart, if you actually email to find the price.
It's $1000 more, if you don't take 4.9% financing
That price doesn't include destination/handling
Etc, etc..

jicbulk

Thanks for the comments. I've got a deal on the table:
MSRP is $31170
Sell Price is $27716 Lease / $26716 Purchase
GTI SE 6-Speed

My problem is that I am finishing out a BMW lease and have four more payments. Seems like the best thing to do is wait until Jan/Feb and cut a GTI deal then?

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

28firefighter said:

Agree 100% - sounds like fake urgency to try and get you to buy. 

There are incredible deals floating around for GTIs if you're on the east coast. 2017s selling for 4000-5000 off from what I'm seeing. 

A lot of those deals fall apart, if you actually email to find the price.
It's $1000 more, if you don't take 4.9% financing
That price doesn't include destination/handling
Etc, etc..

My personal feeling was, I have no problem financing at 4.9% and then paying it off 30 days later and refinancing at a lower rate, if I needed to.

Even still 3000-4000 off on a 2017 is pretty good.

andres3

corvette said:

mjfloyd1 said:

Who among us will be the first to buy a 3.0 TDI hoping for another buyback...

They've already admitted they're going to have to buy back the early 3.0 TDIs, but think they can fix the more recent ones. No word on the buyback figures, though. As I've previously said, if the numbers work, I'd pick up a 3.0 in a heartbeat. If I weren't concerned VW might go bankrupt and renege on the deal, I'd consider dumping the Murano and holding the 3.0 for the full two year period before turning it in.

I just don't see why VW wouldn't have already declared bankruptcy in the US if they were going to do so, prior to the settlement. I can't ever see it happening now at this late stage; just wouldn't make any sense.

Also, Obama loves bailouts so your good until at least January 20. I think Hillary would like to win Tennessee in a re-election campaign (where VW resides), so I can see future bailouts if needed.

andres3

kyfdx said:

My friend had a VW coming off lease, and I went with him to check out a new Passat. Believe me, they have plenty of inventory. They are also cutting aggressive deals.

But, there aren't great deals on GTIs that I can see. No need to be in a hurry. Plus, how many TDI people are going to be looking for a GTI?

All it takes is a test drive in the GTI

henryn

andres3 said:

I just don't see why VW wouldn't have already declared bankruptcy in the US if they were going to do so, prior to the settlement. I can't ever see it happening now at this late stage; just wouldn't make any sense.

Things change, chaos rules.

Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,

In the US, there are only 475k 2.0 TDIs. In Europe , there are millions. Yes, millions. If VW gets hit in Europe the way they have been hit here, they are a goner. Just like that. Game over.

28firefighter

They will not be hit that way in Europe though, at least I don't think.

The environmental regulations are different, then penalties are different, the remedies available to consumers in Europe are completely different than they are here. I read something previously that basically said consumers in Europe are likely entitled to nothing as a result of this mess.

henryn

autoweek.com/article/vw-diesel-scandal/why-vw-diesel-owners-europe-wont-get-much-automakers-cheating

JUNE 29, 2016
As the outlines of the settlement between Volkswagen and U.S. authorities became known at the start of the week, Europe's Industry Commissioner Elzbieta Bienkowska again expressed her wish to see the automaker provide a similar compensation program to some 8.5 million owners of VW Automotive Group vehicles in Europe, Reuters reports.
"Volkswagen should voluntarily pay European car owners compensation that is comparable with that which they will pay U.S. consumers," Bienkowska reportedly told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper over the weekend, according to Reuters.
For now, that's not happening: For a number of reasons, owners of Volkswagen, Audi, Skoda and SEAT diesels won't get much besides the "flow transformer" devices that Volkswagen presented to a genuinely surprised public last winter and quickly secured approval for from regulators in Germany.

Notice the part where it says "For now, that's not happeing".

There is no reason why it couldn't happen in the future. I mean, look at what IS happening. 14.7 billion dollars for 475,000 cars here in the US. Nothing like this has ever happened, it is unprecedented.

My original plan was to drive this Passat TDI for over 2 years, with no depreciation, guaranteed. Which is a fantastic deal, any way you slice it. But if I don't take the buyback now, and things do fall apart, I will lose at least $7,000, probably more. So I'm going to take the money, while it is on the table.

andres3

28firefighter said:

They will not be hit that way in Europe though, at least I don't think.

The environmental regulations are different, then penalties are different, the remedies available to consumers in Europe are completely different than they are here. I read something previously that basically said consumers in Europe are likely entitled to nothing as a result of this mess.

Well, as long as the gov't doesn't make an issue of the situation, the consumer really has no loss. The Consumer will never see or notice any detrimental effects from their 2.0 TDI. This whole issue is created by the gov't. The gov't started it, and they can stop it.

henryn

And here's another article, dated today:

thecarconnection.com/news/1106909_volkswagen-dieselgate-update-settlement-package-finally-approved-audi-may-buy-back-25000-q7s

5. European Union turns up the heat: Say what you will about Americans and their litigious tendencies, but the U.S. has been more successful than other nations in forcing Volkswagen to take this matter seriously--even though most diesels affected by the Dieselgate scandal weren't sold here. Now, EU regulators want Volkswagen to do the same across the Pond. Specifically, they want Volkswagen to compensate owners of illegal diesels, and they want the automaker to guarantee that it will fix all cars that can be fixed within the coming year.

xwesx

henryn said:

My original plan was to drive this Passat TDI for over 2 years, with no depreciation, guaranteed. Which is a fantastic deal, any way you slice it. But if I don't take the buyback now, and things do fall apart, I will lose at least $7,000, probably more. So I'm going to take the money, while it is on the table.

I really don't think you will have to worry about that happening, Henry. My experience is that these settlements require the funds be placed in escrow, which means that the pool of funding is available for the settlement now. If there is anything left in escrow at the end of the settlement period, that amount is returned to the company. If VW-USA (or the whole darn corporation) declared bankruptcy down the road, it would not affect the escrow account.

xwesx

henryn said:

And here's another article, dated today:

thecarconnection.com/news/1106909_volkswagen-dieselgate-update-settlement-package-finally-approved-audi-may-buy-back-25000-q7s

5. European Union turns up the heat: Say what you will about Americans and their litigious tendencies, but the U.S. has been more successful than other nations in forcing Volkswagen to take this matter seriously--even though most diesels affected by the Dieselgate scandal weren't sold here. Now, EU regulators want Volkswagen to do the same across the Pond. Specifically, they want Volkswagen to compensate owners of illegal diesels, and they want the automaker to guarantee that it will fix all cars that can be fixed within the coming year.

Good; this is what they should do - the practical approach! Fix the cars, offer the owners a little compensation (e.g., "incentive") for participating, and call it a day. The lion's share of the cost of the US settlement is the buyback option! That never *never* should have been an option at all. It is wasteful to the extreme.

They could probably implement a fix program on those eight million cars and have it cost the same or less than the crazy US settlement. Now, accomplishing all this in a year? Hah.

kyfdx

Can Audi dealers still sell used 3.0 TDI models? Or, are they quarantined, like the 2.0 models?

28firefighter

They can sell them as long as they are not sold as CPO, I believe.

breld

Yup - that's what I've seen. A few 3.0 TDI models at local Audi dealers, but not CPO and obviously not new.

kyfdx

I could see getting a Q5 TDI or a Touareg TDI for a buyback, but need to know the amounts, first.
Wouldn't want to drop $30K to make $2K in five or six months.

henryn

xwesx said:

henryn said:

My original plan was to drive this Passat TDI for over 2 years, with no depreciation, guaranteed. Which is a fantastic deal, any way you slice it. But if I don't take the buyback now, and things do fall apart, I will lose at least $7,000, probably more. So I'm going to take the money, while it is on the table.

I really don't think you will have to worry about that happening, Henry. My experience is that these settlements require the funds be placed in escrow, which means that the pool of funding is available for the settlement now. If there is anything left in escrow at the end of the settlement period, that amount is returned to the company. If VW-USA (or the whole darn corporation) declared bankruptcy down the road, it would not affect the escrow account.

I don't have the time to go look for it right now, but I clearly remember reading that VW was going to setup a $2B escrow, and replenish that as it ran low. The actual buyback costs for all 475,000 cars here in the US is right at $10B. So I want to be in that first 20%.

henryn

http://www.carsdirect.com/deals-articles/hyundai-offering-friends-family-pricing-to-vw-diesel-owners

Yesterday's court approval of VW's landmark $14.7 billion settlement with regulators and owners of over 475,000 TDI diesel vehicles has made waves, ranking as one of the most significant corporate settlements ever.

Korean automaker Hyundai is seizing on the opportunity by quietly rolling out an unusual Friends & Family offer for those affected. The program, known as Hyundai Circle V-Plan, offers a generous flat discount plus additional incentives.

So what does the program involve? Who's eligible? And is the deal any good?

Here's what you need to know.

qbrozen

Volvo has had a deal out for a while now for those affected. Some kind of special service plan. Not much of an incentive IMHO.

xwesx

henryn said:

I don't have the time to go look for it right now, but I clearly remember reading that VW was going to setup a $2B escrow, and replenish that as it ran low. The actual buyback costs for all 475,000 cars here in the US is right at $10B. So I want to be in that first 20%.

Ah, that's likely true. The sum of this settlement is rather unprecedented in its scale, so it makes sense that the escrow fund would be funded over time.

qbrozen

What happened to "We have set aside $14B for this"?

stickguy

that is probably a book accounting entry. doesn't mean they shoved it all in a huge coffee can and buried it in Farmer's back yard.

mjfloyd1

I just received a 10 yr / 120K mile warranty extension on the ad blue heater in the mail today. It says for both 2 and 3 liter diesels.

henryn

mjfloyd1 said:

I just received a 10 yr / 120K mile warranty extension on the ad blue heater in the mail today. It says for both 2 and 3 liter diesels.

I received the same mailing. I was in high hopes that it was something else entirely.

corvette

Like, "here's your check, please turn in your TDI at your earliest convenience?"

henryn

corvette said:

Like, "here's your check, please turn in your TDI at your earliest convenience?"

Yes, exactly!

Actually, this is a good move on the part of VW. I have, over the last 3 months of TDI ownership, read a fair bit in the forums over at TDIClub. It would seem that a lot of people have had to pay out of pocket for an "ad blue heater", and they are offering to reimburse. So yes, a good thing for many people.

Sandman6472

"Ad blue heater"?

The Sandman

mjfloyd1

The diesel emission fluid's brand name is "ad blue". The tank that holds this ad blue fluid has a heater that breaks. Apparently a lot, since the warranty is now 10 yrs / 120 K miles.

qbrozen

Received another email this morn from VW telling me more of what I already knew. My documents still state "under review" on the claims website.

stickguy

Your TDI is like the hotel California. You can check in but never leave. Might be driving it until your kids can drive.

28firefighter

That is NOT funny.

No emails, but my documents are still in the same state.

qbrozen

Here is the email:


Court Approved U.S. Volkswagen / Audi Diesel Emissions Settlement
The following information is about settlements with the United States and California (U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, California Air Resources Board, California Attorney General); the U.S. Federal Trade Commission; and 2.0-Liter VW/Audi TDI vehicle owners and lessees.
For more information, visit VWCourtSettlement.com.
The Court has approved settlements with Volkswagen regarding diesel emissions from Volkswagen and Audi 2.0-Liter diesel vehicles. If you are eligible, you may submit a claim now: https://claims.vwgoa.com/#/
Current owners and lessees can choose one of the two following options:
A buyback of your car or an early lease termination; or
A modification to your car to improve emissions (if approved by EPA and CARB), plus cash.
Some former owners and lessees are also eligible to receive cash.
HOW IT WORKS:
Visit VWCourtSettlement.com. Enter your VIN to see if your car qualifies and how much compensation you will receive.
You’ll get information about your options, including the timing. If you are eligible, you can file a claim on the site now.
You can wait until you receive more information about whether there will be a modification available to improve emissions from your car.
Includes these 2.0-liter diesel cars:
VW Beetle 2013-2015
VW Golf 2010-2015
VW Jetta 2009-2015
VW Passat 2012-2015
Audi A3 2010-2013, 2015
For more information, visit VWCourtSettlement.com or call 1-844-98-CLAIM

28firefighter

It actually makes sense to me that we have not heard. All of us purchased after the 9/2015 cutoff and also after the 6/28 settlement announcement date.

If I had to guess, they're running a vehicle title and registration check before approving our documents to make sure the vehicle was registered during that window.

qbrozen

The Claims Portal is temporarily undergoing a brief maintenance period while we are working on system enhancements to improve the user experience.
VWCOURTSETTLEMENT.COM

stever

At first glance I though you had typed in WORSTSETTLEMENT.COM.

28firefighter

Has anyone else received an "Accepted, determining eligibility" notification? I'm officially at 4 weeks since submitted and have not had my documents accepted yet. Just says Under Review.

breld

FWIW, I'm still in that "Under Review" status as well. I submitted almost 4 weeks ago.