VW TDI Settlement - buying a TDI now

qbrozen

He was saying the emissions were made even tighter when VW claimed to have exceeded them. Again, I have found no support in my googling. Not sure what his sources are.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

He was saying the emissions were made even tighter when VW claimed to have exceeded them. Again, I have found no support in my googling. Not sure what his sources are.

Ah, gotcha.

----

I planned to add some fuel conditioner to my tank yesterday to ensure I will not have any gelling issues while it sits over the next few months. I filled it up last on 9/9, and I am not sure whether the tanks were switched to #1 by that time or not. I did notice that my economy seemed very low compared to the prior tank, but I don't think I drove it enough to really get a good average. So, just a little insurance.

Instead, though, I installed a subwoofer in my wife's car first, which required tearing half the car apart, and by the time I got it back together an hour later, a massive wind storm had come up, knocked over a couple of trees (that I could see) and our power went out. So, I couldn't see, didn't want to run down batteries, and just holed up inside playing hearts with the family and sipping on tea.

Maybe tonight!

andres3

GM suing VW would be equivalent to them suing Toyota & Honda for forcing them to make something other than unreliable junk. They wouldn't of had to invest so much money into quality control if it wasn't for Toyota & Honda.

qbrozen

hearing was scheduled for 8am today California time. Wonder when it will hit the interwebs.

henryn

There is a thread in the Dieselgate forum at TDICLUB. Some guy paid $30 to get connected to a live audio feed of the courtroom proceedings. He is posting running commentary, and a LOT of people are following the thread. Makes for very slow response on the web page.

henryn

Judge praising all parties. Opt out rate is less than 1%. More than 99% percent have reviewed or accepted this. Outstanding.

henryn

CARB is on now. Appropriate partial resolution.

qbrozen

Per other sources, 65% of owners signed up for the restitution as of a week ago.

qbrozen

the TDIclub site just tells me "server too busy. try again later." ha.

kyfdx

Yeah.. I read the first six pages of that discussion, but now I get the same message.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

Per other sources, 65% of owners signed up for the restitution as of a week ago.

Opt out, means you don't want to be part of the settlement. That wouldn't include owners who haven't signed up yet.

henryn

I have hit that "server too busy" several times. I just refresh the page until it works.

qbrozen

kyfdx said:

qbrozen said:

Per other sources, 65% of owners signed up for the restitution as of a week ago.

Opt out, means you don't want to be part of the settlement. That wouldn't include owners who haven't signed up yet.

yes, but I don't think "99% have reviewed or accepted" is a correct assumption.

kyfdx

qbrozen said:

kyfdx said:

qbrozen said:

Per other sources, 65% of owners signed up for the restitution as of a week ago.

Opt out, means you don't want to be part of the settlement. That wouldn't include owners who haven't signed up yet.

yes, but I don't think "99% have reviewed or accepted" is a correct assumption.

I don't see how that could be possible, either. Think about 100 of your friends. Could 99 of them do something within 3 months that would be in their best interest?

kyfdx

Looks like a done deal, but we have to wait another week for him to consider objections.

xwesx

My understanding is that there is not an opt-in, but only an opt-out. So, if someone specifically wanted to pursue other legal recourse with VW, they would be required to opt-out of this settlement. Those who do not are then bound by this one.

Of course, owners can choose to keep their cars and not participate in this program, but they cannot then pursue other action against VW related to this issue.


Regarding signing up for the restitution, I'm glad I went ahead and signed mine up now rather than waiting until later on. Their target is 85%, so I'm curious as to whether they will shut the program down once they hit that target, regardless of owner interest to the contrary. Alternatively, I also wonder what additional incentives they will provide to those last holdouts if they have to fight to achieve the 85% threshold. As such, waiting until later in the game means more risk, but also more potential reward.

qbrozen

I don't believe this can be an automatic opt in when it requires the action of the owner surrendering the car. If they simply send out restitution checks, that would not guarantee the 85% buyback rate. They need active participation, not passive.

kyfdx

I don't believe they will have any trouble making the 85%. I also don't think they have the option of not doing a buyback, if the owner/vehicle qualify, no matter what their completion rate might be. So, no risk in waiting. Getting more? Seems doubtful. Any additional incentives, if added, would probably be discounts on VW products. Actual changes in the cash paid would seem to go against the class action settlement.

28firefighter

As a consumer and person who has money tied up, I'm miffed that this is being dragged out another week. As a recovering attorney, I cannot say I am surprised in the least.

andres3

These lawyers are paid by the hour I think. Settlement is probably some amount plus expenses billed by the hour.

28firefighter

andres3 said:

These lawyers are paid by the hour I think. Settlement is probably some amount plus expenses billed by the hour.

My point had nothing to do with the lawyers and everything to do with the system dragging things on.

qbrozen

See, now I thought it was the 24th or 25th all along and was surprised to hear about this 10/18 date. I suspect maybe this was added in to give the judge something more to think about before the 10/25 ruling.

mjfloyd1

How many vehicles are affected? I read an article that said 330,000 had signed up...

qbrozen

475k

stever

qbrozen said:

I don't believe this can be an automatic opt in when it requires the action of the owner surrendering the car. If they simply send out restitution checks, that would not guarantee the 85% buyback rate. They need active participation, not passive.

Seems like most class actions are opt-in whether you hear about them or not. I'm sure it promotes "certaintyy" or some such.

And a few extra days for the judge to hand down the decision gives VW opportunity to reflect on banko.

xwesx

qbrozen said:

I don't believe this can be an automatic opt in when it requires the action of the owner surrendering the car. If they simply send out restitution checks, that would not guarantee the 85% buyback rate. They need active participation, not passive.

Sorry; I did not clarify what "opt in" meant. Basically, the settlement binds owners to its terms (e.g., they cannot seek restitution through separate litigation) unless they opt out. Signing up for the buyback or the emissions fix is not the same thing. Yes, the owner does need to take action in order to participate in those options. However, if an owner did not do either of those, but instead tried to bring separate suit against VW, they would be bound by the conditions of this settlement unless they had opted out.

At least, that's how I interpreted it when I read the document back in July....

xwesx

kyfdx said:

I don't believe they will have any trouble making the 85%. I also don't think they have the option of not doing a buyback, if the owner/vehicle qualify, no matter what their completion rate might be. So, no risk in waiting. Getting more? Seems doubtful. Any additional incentives, if added, would probably be discounts on VW products. Actual changes in the cash paid would seem to go against the class action settlement.

Well, I seem to recall that there were pretty stiff penalties to VW if they did not make the 85% threshold, so the company may have incentive to further entice those last holdouts (if necessary), at least until it was less hassle just paying the additional penalty. Additionally, there was no mention of compensation related to long distances to the "nearest dealership," but I fully plan to ask for reasonable compensation related to this if they have not already worked out an offer. Maybe they will have thought this through well enough to just have a carrier on hand locally to load several of these buybacks up at once and save owners the trouble of even driving them down. But, I never have been one to shy away from a road trip....

xwesx

As part of this hearing, was there mention of the take rate on prior ownership? I still wonder what residual is in the kitty....

kyfdx

I think we are still on the same timeline, as before. Buyback offers will start on November 1st, is my guess.

Hopefully, after next Tuesday, they'll update the amounts with additions from the "seller pool". I wonder how much that might be, as well.

henryn

kyfdx said:

I think we are still on the same timeline, as before. Buyback offers will start on November 1st, is my guess.

Hopefully, after next Tuesday, they'll update the amounts with additions from the "seller pool". I wonder how much that might be, as well.

No, I think we are pushed back by 7 days on the beginning of the buyback offers. The original documents said buybacks would begin "10 days" or "10 working days" from when the court accepted the proposed offer by VW.

November 1 is exactly 10 working days after October 18, when we expected the court to accept.

andres3

xwesx said:

kyfdx said:

I don't believe they will have any trouble making the 85%. I also don't think they have the option of not doing a buyback, if the owner/vehicle qualify, no matter what their completion rate might be. So, no risk in waiting. Getting more? Seems doubtful. Any additional incentives, if added, would probably be discounts on VW products. Actual changes in the cash paid would seem to go against the class action settlement.

Well, I seem to recall that there were pretty stiff penalties to VW if they did not make the 85% threshold, so the company may have incentive to further entice those last holdouts (if necessary), at least until it was less hassle just paying the additional penalty. Additionally, there was no mention of compensation related to long distances to the "nearest dealership," but I fully plan to ask for reasonable compensation related to this if they have not already worked out an offer. Maybe they will have thought this through well enough to just have a carrier on hand locally to load several of these buybacks up at once and save owners the trouble of even driving them down. But, I never have been one to shy away from a road trip....

Hate to rain on your parade, but (let's just say I'm playing Devil's Advocate):

If I'm VW, I write you back stating that it is your choice and selection whether to have the car bought back or repaired/modified to meet emissions. Given that it is your choice, we feel no further compensation will be provided to further incentive one choice over the other.

Your claim would be the same as if I wanted compensation for an engine replacement done under warranty because I had to pay the tow truck either XXX miles or XX miles instead of X miles to get it to the dealership. I don't think warranties generally cover consequential damages. They could tell me I should have moved closer to the dealership, or taken that under consideration when buying the vehicle. Now, if they had shut down the 10 closest VW dealerships, that would be another story.

xwesx

Well, they did shut down the closest dealership (many years ago). Either way, though, I'm still going to ask. After all, if they want me to drop it off at the dealership then I am driving a car one way and need to get home. That's not a cheap trip no matter how you slice it.

qbrozen

xwesx said:

qbrozen said:

I don't believe this can be an automatic opt in when it requires the action of the owner surrendering the car. If they simply send out restitution checks, that would not guarantee the 85% buyback rate. They need active participation, not passive.

Sorry; I did not clarify what "opt in" meant. Basically, the settlement binds owners to its terms (e.g., they cannot seek restitution through separate litigation) unless they opt out. Signing up for the buyback or the emissions fix is not the same thing. Yes, the owner does need to take action in order to participate in those options. However, if an owner did not do either of those, but instead tried to bring separate suit against VW, they would be bound by the conditions of this settlement unless they had opted out.

At least, that's how I interpreted it when I read the document back in July....

ok. gotcha.

corvette

http://amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2016/10/21/audi-q7-diesel-buyback/?source=dam

Older 3.0 Audi TDIs can't be fixed. I assume the same is true for VW and Porsche. No word on the buyback amount. 

mjfloyd1

CEL just came on my 13 Passat TDI. Dealership "doesn't check CEL on Saturday because we have limited staff and a full schedule ". At least I have the warranty extension.

qbrozen

I have put over 5k miles on mine in these 3 mos. cutting into my profit.

corvette

mjfloyd1 said:

CEL just came on my 13 Passat TDI. Dealership "doesn't check CEL on Saturday because we have limited staff and a full schedule ". At least I have the warranty extension.

This drives me nuts. If they only do oil changes on Saturdays, they should say so on their website.

28firefighter

mjfloyd1 said:

CEL just came on my 13 Passat TDI. Dealership "doesn't check CEL on Saturday because we have limited staff and a full schedule ". At least I have the warranty extension.

This is a bummer but good you have warranty. Otherwise I'd tell you to park it if it's driving OK.

kyfdx

28firefighter said:

mjfloyd1 said:

CEL just came on my 13 Passat TDI. Dealership "doesn't check CEL on Saturday because we have limited staff and a full schedule ". At least I have the warranty extension.

This is a bummer but good you have warranty. Otherwise I'd tell you to park it if it's driving OK.

Mine threw the CEL, the first week. $112 repair. Loose intake. 1300 miles since, and not a hiccup

28firefighter

kyfdx said:

mjfloyd1 said:

CEL just came on my 13 Passat TDI. Dealership "doesn't check CEL on Saturday because we have limited staff and a full schedule ". At least I have the warranty extension.

This is a bummer but good you have warranty. Otherwise I'd tell you to park it if it's driving OK.

Mine threw the CEL, the first week. $112 repair. Loose intake. 1300 miles since, and not a hiccup

More than I'd put into mine 

Maybe not because it's my primary means of transport this month since the GTI has been in the shop. 

corvette

No loaner car for the broken GTI?

28firefighter

corvette said:

No loaner car for the broken GTI?

They offered me a base model Jetta. I told them that wasn't equivalent. They said it was all they had, so I figured I would rather drive the A3. 

kyfdx

Now that it's apparent that the car isn't going back in November, I can drive it all I want, without fear of dropping into the next lower mileage tier. Don't think my 3-Series will get used more than once per week, now.

corvette

I thought the buybacks had to begin X number of days after final approval?

If I have the car past the first of the year, I'll have to pay property tax (boo!) plus the ongoing insurance, but it may drop into a more favorable mileage tier (yay!) since I'm not driving it.

kyfdx

corvette said:

I thought the buybacks had to begin X number of days after final approval?

If I have the car past the first of the year, I'll have to pay property tax (boo!) plus the ongoing insurance, but it may drop into a more favorable mileage tier (yay!) since I'm not driving it.

Once you accept their offer, they have 90 days to effect the buyback.

Doesn't seem possible that they would offer everyone on the first day. Buying back 5000 cars per day would probably be impossible from a back office standpoint, let alone the dealership personnel.

I was hoping to sell my car back before January 1st, as well (same state), but I give that a 10% chance of happening. I'll barely be under the current mileage tier. I'd have to hold mine for five months without driving it to drop another tier. I'd rather drive it, and save the miles on my other car. (If I can keep my son out of it. Another 170 mile round-trip to Lexington in it, today).

henryn

I've had a couple of hiccups with mine, one with the A/C and one with the DSG, both reported here. Neither has reoccurred, and I'm still using it for my daily driver. I do about 800 to 900 miles per month, so I'm not going to affect the buyback price one way or another.

qbrozen

no real issues on mine. some shuddering from the trans on occasion, but doesn't last and not able to replicate at will.

xwesx

Mine has snow on it.


Hahahahaha!

henryn

qbrozen said:

no real issues on mine. some shuddering from the trans on occasion, but doesn't last and not able to replicate at will.

I've now had my '13 Passat TDI for a full 3 months. I like the Passat, it is quite roomy inside and still very easy to park. If it didn't have the sunroof, I would definitely like it better. And I have to admit I rather like the diesel engine. Even though I don't drive enough for mpg to matter, and fuel is cheap these days, I have to admit getting a kick out of looking down after a few miles on the freeway and seeing 47 mpg.

But the transmission... At first I was rather intrigued at something new and quite different. But in the long run, I would much rather have a conventional automatic. For me, in my everyday driving, there are no advantages to the DSG, and a number of disadvantages.

I think it would be interesting to have the chance to do extended driving in a CVT. In theory, a CVT is the perfect transmission. But theory and real life often don't coincide.

qbrozen

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-volkswagen-emissions-idUSKCN12P22F