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Comments
“But diesels are damn noisy and shaky, need special care during winter, require more often oil changes”
Diesels have a different sound over gas and may seem louder because one is not use to it. They can be a little noisy when cold.
I have ridden in diesel pick-up and VW Jetta TDI and have not noticed any more vibration than in any other car.
If my information is correct, most people using synthetic oils are getting 8000 to 10000 miles between oil changes. This is on the Jeep Liberty diesel.
Most people with Liberty diesels and VW TDI’s report no problems starting them in -5 and -15 degree temperatures.
Diesels need different but no more maintance than a gas engine plus have the advantage of being 30% more efficient than gas as you stated.
If I can cut my fuel consumption by 30%, I’m going to go for it.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2005-12-01-rav4_x.htm
Generally, engines that are optimized to run best on premium lose both power and fuel economy when run on regular.
When the spark advance in adjusted to compensate for the lower octane, lower fuel economy occurs along with reduced power. No engine damage occurs and it is perfectly safe, so the manufacture does not "require" you to use premium fuel.
Since Toyota recommends premium to get maximum performance from the V6, that indicates it is an engine that adjusts for the octane as needed.
http://www.cars.com/carsapp/national/?srv=parser&act=display&tf=/features/trutha- bout/gas/todaysgas1.tmpl
I walked out when he wanted msrp.
And re: the mpg issue for cars using regular as opposed to 93 octane....you've got to be kidding me. Cars.com?! They are hardly an authority. For every Cars.com out there that says regular takes away mpg and damages today's engines, I could show you 5 articles from knowledgable sources that say exactly the opposite.
I have indeed owned/driven 4-bangers and they were all "buzzy" at a certain RPM. Never driven a Toyota, but I'm sure they are much quieter than the older ones. It's something I hear when researching cars.
Up to a few years ago buying any foreign car was not an option until I learned how many "foreign" cars were built here and how many "American" cars were built there. Of course today's younger people I'm sure couldn't care less, but next month I'll be 66 going on 25 and come from a more patriotic generation. But I digress
When the time comes and if I go for the Toyota, I'll try the 4 just to be fair to myself, but I know in my heart of hearts I'll buy the 6. I used to race sports cars and still get a kick out of driving and I'm not above sticking my foot in it from time to time.
Cheers,
Larry
That makes small engines pointless since you will spend more money on gas and the frequent engine replacements from all the extra wear they have to withstand.
Check the RPM at 60 MPH (or any other speed) on both the 4 and the 6. I'll bet the 4 is running at a higher RPM. Just like a 5' guy running with a 6' guy. The shorter one has to take more steps to keep up.
The new Cad DeVille (I think that's what it is) which is a very heavy car with a Northstar V-8 is rated at 25 highway MPG. Are you saying that putting 4-banger in the same car you'll get better mileage? I know that's a stretch, but I'm trying to make a point. Also, look at the gear ratio. If I'm not mistaken the 4 is geared lower, hence higher RPM. So, is a higher revving engine going to last as long as a lower reving one? That's all I'm trying to get across. :P
The do rev louder when accelerating for the reasons you mention but when overdrive kicks in around 45 mph you can run all day or 15 yrs at 2000 rpm at 65 mph in dead silence. With 15 yrs of driving them 40000-65000 miles per year this is fact.
I also have a 3.3L V6 Highlander and I believe it's in the 1800 rpm range @60 mph in OD. I'll verify it.
If larger engines were the way to increase fuel economy, they would have figured that out long ago. Just keep making engines bigger and bigger and lower the rpm and you get higher mpg!
The larger engine requires more energy for every revolution which uses more fuel and each revolution puts more "stress" and wear on the engine than a smaller, easier to spin engine does. You can try to mitigate this with taller gearing so the engine turns over less often, but more mass flat out cannot move with less energy.
So, you cannot so simply say that just because an engine spins faster that means it uses more fuel or will wear out faster since there are other factors that are not equal.
We love out Rav4.. amazine suv..
Frank
Good luck with the car.
Like leather wrapped steering wheel, dual zone air conditioning, and heated seats. Some of these are standard on the Limited but aren't even offered on the Sport?!
C'mon Toyota at least offer them as options on the Sport version. You have nothing to lose and more money to make!
My current dilemma is between a 2004 CRV w/15.5k miles for $18.5k vs buying a new Rav4. I like the new Toyota better but price is a big concern. I’m going to see if the CRV owner will go down $1k in price today (they are moving out of the country on the weekend). I may need to sell the car in two years so that is a factor too.
Any thoughts appreciated!
Frank
Frank
If you get the CRV for the right price and you already now it's likely you'll need to sell it in 2 years, you will lose much less money at resale time buying the used CRV instead of buying a new RAV4 now.
The only real advantage to a 4 cylinder is less complexity and therefore cheaper "build".
The only reason for going to 6 cylinders is to avoid the roughness/vibration of an equivalently sized 4 cylinder if higher HP/torque is needed.
Have you driven the Sport?
On Toyota.com, under features for the RAV, the footnote for Third Row says ("standard on V6 models, optional on four cylinder models.") Ok, fair enough. BUT if you go to price the car out on Edmunds (can't do it yet on buyatoyota.com) the small print for the leather package says that it is NOT available with 50/50 split and stow third row.
So, does this mean that you can't get the V6 in leather? Because that would seem odd. Or does it just mean that the third row ITSELF is not available in leather? That would be ok, I suppose, since the third row isn't going to be a seat I use all the time.
But if I can't get the first two rows of the Rav in leather if I get a third row, then I can't get the car because the availablility of the third row is the only reason why I'm looking at the rav in the first place. I could just go to the highlander (and I've got one picked out) but I'd like to be able to make an accurate comparison....
The whole thing just seems odd. Why would the third row be standard on the V6, which, presumably, is a car that the more upscale rav4 is buying, if you can't get it in leather, too? Odd, odd, odd.
Any information would be VERY helpful.
If price is a big concern and you may only keep it 2 years, I think you should get the used vehicle versus the new one. Personally, I think the new Rav is a better looking vehicle but all things are not equal in this case, and new cars depreciate much faster than used ones.. Not to mention your payment...
I have always felt that the city MPG were always off by 2-3mpg for all the cars that I drove but the highway MPG were fairly close.
As for this board, I think it is ridiculous to say that the V6 will get the same MPG as the 4cyl becasue the 4cyl has to "work harder".. If that theory was correct then I think Toyota should offer a V10 to save gas while boasting performance
I do not own a Toyota (yet) but have driven plenty of 4cyl and 6cyl Camry's. The 4cyl gets better gas mileage and is not very noisy.. I would definitely consider a 4cyl Rav...
Someone on this forum made a good point earlier. What if gas costs $4-5 over the next 1-3 years? That 2-3 mpg savings adds up really quickly....
<<First off, is the CRV an EX, or LX?>>
It's an EX, automatic and in excellent condition. I've looked at quite a few and this is practically new.
You said "If price is a big concern and you may only keep it 2 years, I think you should get the used vehicle versus the new one"
I know- this is an unknown factor unfortunately.
I just talked with the Toyota manager and can get the Sport 2WD (which only comes with the 'DJ'- 6 cd, tonneau cover and side airbags) for $22,235. The MSRP is $23,589.
I asked him hypothetically- if I had to sell the car in a year what he thought I could get & he said $19k (& basically said this was an educated guess)
Anway I'm totally going back and forth on this!
Also, I'm paying cash tho that doesn't seem to help me at all with the Rav4.
The last time it went to over $3, it went right back down again and then people went back to shopping SUVs.
If you want not just fuel economy but also more *range*, lower up-front costs, and lower insurance costs, go for the perfectly adequate 4 banger. Remember when the top engine in the Suzuki Sidekick Sport made 120hp? And that was an upgrade? Base models had something like 90hp IIRC.
If you want big-time performance or just plain haul a lot of stuff, opt for the V6. You might even find it operates smoother. Trade-offs? Who cares with that big grin on your face?
No point debating this, if someone else's priorities are different than yours, you'll never talk them into what you prefer.
-juice
If you want leather that badly, you can get cloth and 3rd row and then have leather added through the dealer or aftermarket directly.
Maybe later in the year or next year leather and 3rd row will be available together (likely with a vinyl 3rd row seat).
Looking at the specs it looks good but in real live
it looked much smaller than my honda accord (2001 which is not that big) specially in width
The legroom was ok but the shoulder room I thought was small
What your impression?
Ross
FAQ
For grins, ask the salesperson how much the utility bill fee or the telephone bill fee is. :-)
Steve, Host
steve is right, advertising charges are not included in the edmunds invoice price.
Frank
Anyway for me the V6 is probable choice but it all depends on what your looking for. Dealer says V6 comes in a month but they do not show any V6 RAV4s on their "comming in list". Dealer had 6 2006s. The really do not know much about them actually. I was trying to find out if the optional mirror included built in Homelink like some Toyotas but the did not seem to know.
Want MSRP which is a not for me but I a not in hurry.
The reason I want it is because it wears so much better with kids and food. I also just like it. And if I can't get it, then I'm getting a Highlander. But it would be really, like, super cool to know that ahead of time and I'm getting really frustrated that I can't have the information from Toyota that would permit me to compare these vehicles side by side, apples to apples.
I pulled up the specifications pdf from toyota, and in the column of the car I want (model 4453) there are literally blanks up and down the sheet. They're not filled in. A salesperson told me that he had it on good authority that the options/standard features on the V6 4X4 Limited will be the same as the 4cyl 4X4 Limited, but even assuming those things, I still can't find out if I can get leather AND a third row.
The problem is, if I can't, I really would just prefer to get the Highlander than do aftermarket. And if I'm in Highlander-land, I would prefer to get the car by the end of this month to take advantage of the $1000 cash back.
The last remaining issue (though it should be the first) is that I can't get anybody to give me a firm MSRP. Not that I'm paying MSRP, but I can then make a reasonable comparison to the Highlander, MSRP to MSRP.
How incredibly frustrating.
I'm hoping that there's someone here who is familiar enough with the Rav4 models as they are debuting that can shed some light on this issue, but it might just come down to waiting to see a 4cyl third row Limited when it actually hits the dealerships to find out if leather is available, hope that this occurs prior to Jan 31, and then take a calculated risk on the V6 version of it that I can get it in the same option levels. I'm not in any rush to own, but I'm ready to strike immediately.
Would anybody like to offer any advice as to the relative differences I'll see between a V6 Rav4 Limited 4x4 and the same Highlander, comfort and convenience-wise?