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As for the other pollutants, I have figures from the British EPA. Values will be in gms/km and in the following order, HC, CO, NOx, and CO2.
For the E320 CDI (with PM filter): NA, 0.03, 0.203 202. PM is is 0.004
For the E350: 0.026, 0.210, 0.011, 236. PM is NA
Remember these are British specs, not domestic but this will at least give you an idea.
That EPA approval of the BlueTec MB does not give the results. Just says it is cleaner than the gas version.
It does not answer the question on how much better are the emissions ratings on past diesel vehicles using ULSD. If the VW TDI got a 1 using diesel with 500 PPM sulfur, logic tells us with ULSD it should get a 9.5 or 10. The only pollutant that is higher with a diesel than a gasser is NoX. The VW TDI under the current testing was allowed .60 grams per mile to get a ONE rating. ULSD cuts 97% of NoX. The way I calculate that it would be down to .01 grams per mile. That would be a 10 rating under the Current EPA emissions standards.
If you take an overall look at the different pollutants put out by gas and diesel engines, a 5 year old VW TDI running on ULSD, will have lower emissions than any gas vehicle sold today. Except maybe a vehicle using CNG. Add that to the fact that a 5 year old VW TDI will match or beat any car on the road in a mileage test. I say we should be flooding the market. Save some fuel & our air, buy a diesel.
If someone out there has CURRENT tests on older VW diesels using ULSD, feel free to post them.
If your calculations are correct and do come to fruition, that would make the new VW TDI cleaner than a Prius for NOx. On the British EPA site, the Prius emits 0.01 gms/km of NOx or 0.014 gms/mile. The Prius would emit 37% more NOx.
The 2007 World Green Car Award goes to the Mercedes E320 BlueTec DIESEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How's that for some good news for diesel fans everywhere! Not just better mileage, not just longer lasting, not just more reliable, not just able to use Bio-diesel but now wins the World Green Car Award!
At last it looks like we will turn the corner to using the real potential of the diesel engine.
http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D8OANE4G0.htm
It can no longer be hidden, despite an overwhelming obvious anti diesel or pro unleaded regular bias: that the true impediment was the lack of change by the VERY same regulatory agencies who utterly failed to clean up an absolutely integral energy source (DIESEL and/or its like products) 35 plus years ago when the decision was made to go from leaded regular to unleaded regular gasoline. Bunker oil used in shipping is an obvious example of trying to hid a pollution " boulder" under the regulatory " carpet". There are of course NUMEROUS OTHER examples. The interesting thing is that we have used in effect 25-45% more fuel each year for over 35 years, to do the intended jobs than we really had to. The other interesting thing is since the passenger vehicle fleet is still upwards of 97% gasser, we still ARE!
"As long as we maintain cheap gas prices, diesel will not have a big impact on the auto market. When your fuel bill becomes a significant percentage of your budget things will change."... can be and is a factor,
I would still be for inexpensive transportation: i.e., cheap, if not cheaper, cost per mile.
I sold my Ford diesel to a guy that was hopeless. He didn't even know they didn't have spark plugs...
America needs to be educated about the diesel..
Yesterday while in the library I read an article / interview from former CIA director Bill Gates... His interview was almost enought to get me into the hybrid deal... but not this year. I think it was Motor Trend but not sure. It also talked about the MB diesel... bluetec?? I am sorry I don't have a link.. perhaps I will look again next week... the libary is closed now for EASTER.. There I said it.. now I feel better..
http://www.businessweek.com/autos/content/mar2007/bw20070328_446453.htm?chan=aut- os_autos+index+page_news
More Greenhouse Gases
The result is anything but green. The more flex-fuel cars and trucks that are produced, the more gasoline is consumed—dramatically increasing greenhouse gas emissions and deepening the country's dependence on petroleum. The Union of Concerned Scientists estimates that without the policy in place, the U.S. would have burned 4 billion fewer gallons of gasoline since 1998. "Automakers have an [economic] incentive to sell cars less efficient than the law requires," says Don MacKenzie, a vehicles engineer for the Union's clean vehicles program.
NEW YORK — U.S. fans of the Volkswagen Jetta SportWagen now have a clue about when the vehicle is bound for their local dealership. The automaker on Wednesday set the timetable for the U.S. launch of the car, starting in August with the 2.5-liter Jetta SportWagen that uses the 170-horsepower 2.5-liter five-cylinder engine.
The launch of the base model will be followed with the 2.0T Jetta SportWagen that gets the 200-hp four-cylinder engine in the fall. In early 2008, the Jetta SportWagen will be available with a 2.0-liter clean diesel engine.
Prices have not yet been announced.
The SportWagen's standard features include air-conditioning, anti-theft vehicle alarm, cruise control, CD player, traction control, antilock brakes and eight-way adjustable front seats. A panoramic sunroof is optional.
What this means to you: Now you have a schedule in hand for when the sprightly SportWagen can end up in your driveway.
There are two flaws with that so-called logic...
First, since when is the chemical reaction linear? That's an assumption you shouldn't be making.
Second, even if an extremely high rating is initially achieved, that certainly doesn't mean it will last the entire required 120,000 mile duration for a SULEV emission rating or 150,000 miles for PZEV.
JOHN
Specious reasonable doubt argument here "counselor". In CA, and I would assume other states also, have app 10 year "smog only" tests. My own gasser "smog only" testing at this time frame and app mileage showed like new or better smog tests results. As you know 10/15 years in the past did not have a sulev/pzev rating. You seem to be arguing the sulev/pzev is not worth the cost nor R & D. Indeed the results on my 2 Toyota Landcruiser SUV's, bear that out. Further I will report the 20 year results if indeed that will be of forward interest!
Gassers have higher pumping losses and higher HC and CO emissions. Gassers must also run on a tightly controlled fuel/air ratio which in some respects makes them easier to cleanup.
Is there a study of the impact of higher ethanol content on equipment? I am sure there is and unless that equipment is designed to run on high ethanol concentrations, the results would be disastrous for any normal gasser.
Running high concentrations of biodiesel in a diesel not designed for more than B5 could present issues too, but it is less likely to be a problem. My CRD will run happily on B5 and that is what Daimler-Chrysler recommends. I have run B20 from time to time in my CRD with no ill effects.
I like this forum because it is a good learning tool. Disagreeing is fine so long as you have make every effort to post honest facts and if you make a mistake, at least try to own up to it instead of crawling back into a hole.
I am one that was very happy to see ULSD be mandated. I don't care for the smell of sulfur in my fuel. I don't like following a bus or truck that is pouring out black soot either. I cannot figure out what took the EPA so long to do what was needed with diesel. The bottom line for me is once I drove and owned diesel vehicles, nothing else compared. Maybe an all electric would convince me otherwise.
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Why? That was your circular conversation, not the one being referenced. That is part of the narrowness of this blog - most are unable to address the larger issues and fall back on false dichotomies.
It doesn't seem right that a few (very) states direct the whole nation and the other 45 states in the use of diesel and emissions.
There are tons of vehicles WE could choose from in NC IF the folks in CA and MA had not deminished my ability to chose. So for the moment I will just continue to drive my gas hog of a PU and my 2006 diesel Chevy Silverado and old Park Ave..
And how far back might that be? I have been trading posts with john since he came to this Forum 5 years ago. He has never had a balanced approach on the subject of diesel cars. He is a one car person since the beginning. Nothing else is as good as his beloved Prius.
His attempt to discredit the new BluTech Mercedes has been going on since they were announced a year or more ago. I suggest you read all his posts before you consider him a source of balanced information.
The request is still there for any kind of credible data on the emissions that we should expect from a modern diesel car using the current ULSD. I for one would like to know how my 2005 Passat diesel would have compared to a gas version of the same car. That should be easy with your connections to the world of mechanics.
I dare say if you owned a modern diesel car you would find it very enjoyable to drive. You would probably be right here defending them with us. Plus you would be saving on fossil fuel for yourself and for your children.
70 series Land Cruisers
Some will like them, others will not. Many will find them a nuisance, others a god send. In the end, its just a car.
When we start talking seriously about alternatives to the "mystical car", we will be onto something significant that promotes real savings, a separation from terrorists states, and a noticeable reduction in pollutants - although we will need an alternative to enhancing one's sex life.
You are absolutely correct. Neither is close to perfect. It is too bad you missed the "hybrid vs Diesel" thread that is long since archived. Most of the anti hybrid rhetoric is in response to the anti diesel posts.
I came to the Edmund's Forum around 1998 looking for a Diesel PU so I could save a little on fuel. Two young fellows from Brazil drove a crew cab Ford Ranger to Prudhoe Bay Alaska where I was working. We got to visiting and I was curious about the mileage they got on their trip from Tierra del Fuego to the Arctic. They told me the truck averaged 45 MPG. It had a 4 cylinder diesel and a 5 speed manual transmission. I thought that was just what I wanted and the search was on. Now almost 10 years later I am still looking and no PU truck in the USA gets half the MPG.
Does anyone else remember these old Toyotas? Heck it might have been a Nisan but seems like Toyota.
That is very close to what you can buy a comparably equipped Mercedes ML320 CDI with 7 speed auto trans. I think they will need to discount from MSRP. I would buy the Mercedes over the Jeep.
I want to offer you a little warning. I noticed that the trans is the RFE545, same as the one on the Jeep Liberty CRD. There was a recall, F37, to remedy an issue, namely the engine was tearing up the torque converter and occasionally eating the front pump in the trans. I hope DCX has fixed this issue.
Next step, this place closes.
kcram - Pickups Host
Jonathan Goodwin has built a car that can run on ethanol, hydrogen, biodiesel or natural gas--all fairly clean fuels. It gets the equivalent of 40 miles a gallon. And it's a Hummer.
Goodwin, a biodiesel conversion specialist and founder of alternative energy start-up SAE Energy, is an emerging name in an unlikely niche in the clean tech market: making muscle cars green.
He's already converted about 60 H2 Hummers from gas to diesel and about 100 H1 hummers, including a Hummer that can burn the whole menu of clean fuels.
On Earth Day (April 22nd), MTV Networks' show Pimp My Ride will feature a 1965 Impala he converted from gas to biodiesel. And since nothing says Earth Day like a drag race, the converted Impala went up against a Lamborghini in a quarter-mile test. The Impala won.
"You don't have to sacrifice the fun aspects of a car. All you have to do is change your fuel," said Martin Tobias, CEO of Imperium Renewables, a biodiesel refiner that developed the Pimp My Ride biodiesel experiment with MTV. "It completely blew away the Lamborghini. It was only two-thirds down the track when the Impala crossed the finish line."
The same dynamics underpin the growth in the clean car market. Manufacturers are offering consumers clean cars--a big selling point--but not cutting back on performance.
I'm not sure what he means about a 40 MPG version of the vehicle....
Jonathan Goodwin has built a car that can run on ethanol, hydrogen, biodiesel or natural gas--all fairly clean fuels. It gets the equivalent of 40 miles a gallon. And it's a Hummer.
25 MPG in a Hummer2 would be pretty darn good. I think they are using the same flawed logic when figuring CAFE numbers for a Flex Fuel vehicle