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Heard the one about the 6.6 V8 that’ll do 70mpg? One Norfolk car maker doesn’t reckon it’s a joke.
In case the massive V8 was not a big enough giveaway, we should point out that this is not a Lotus. This car comes from Norfolk’s other car maker, Trident Performance Vehicles, based at Beeston.
Trident is launching its new two-seater Iceni sports car, and it’s doing so by attempting to drive from Norwich to Monaco – around 1000 miles - on a single tank of fuel.
It’s not quite as mad as it seems: the Trident has 100-litre fuel tank, and its 6.6-litre V8 is a diesel. At 56mph, they reckon the Iceni can manage 70mpg. What’s more, the Iceni will be running biodiesel.
The car will be driven by Trident’s sales director, Kelly Bevan, and journalist Suzannah Sorrell. It leaves Norwich on 17 April, and aims to get to Monaco for the Top Marques motor show on the 19th.
Even if they use some of the car’s performance – it is claimed to do 0-60mph in 3.9sec and 170mph flat out – we reckon there will be plenty of fuel: at 70mpg,
If the only knowledge of diesels I had was my own experience, I would have to say that based on my ex's blown up Mercedes diesel at 200k, and the Taxi drivers in my area driving diesels and replacing them at 200k, and the gas taxi drivers going to 300k, and my own experience of driving gas cars to more than 200k and selling them for more than I paid used with 100K on them, then I would have to say that the claims for diesel are not supported by the facts.
However, the world is larger than my factual experience and when I read that diesels last longer, despite my own and others experience, I tend to believe it. Additionally, the idea that gas cars typically leave the scene at 100k is easily belied by looking at the premium prices being paid for used gas vehicles with more than 100k on them. (Yes, I know diesels are getting premium prices as well, I just helped a friend buy a pristine 2002 TDI.)
Is there a likely mechanical endurance advantage of diesel over gas? probably; is it overwhelming and compelling? I don't know how one can make that claim without more information to base it on.
Are there other reason to buy or not to buy a diesel? They are probably as many, varied and random as humans are.
It would be useful to see a credible life cycle analysis of the true costs, all factors included, of diesel vs gas. It seems that there probably is some advantage, and it may be increasing, but "seeming" and "having" are not the same.
However, the world is larger than my factual experience and when I read that diesels last longer, despite my own and others experience, I tend to believe it. Additionally, the idea that gas cars typically leave the scene at 100k is easily belied by looking at the premium prices being paid for used gas vehicles with more than 100k on them. (Yes, I know diesels are getting premium prices as well, I just helped a friend buy a pristine 2002 TDI.)
Is there a likely mechanical endurance advantage of diesel over gas? probably; is it overwhelming and compelling? I don't know how one can make that claim without more information to base it on.
Are there other reason to buy or not to buy a diesel? They are probably as many, varied and random as humans are.
It would be useful to see a credible life cycle analysis of the true costs, all factors included, of diesel vs gas. It seems that there probably is some advantage, and it may be increasing, but "seeming" and "having" are not the same."...
First off the population of gassers vs diesels in the passenger vehicle fleet is upwards of 97% vs less than 3%. So if you are looking for a like vol and percentage data base for passenger diesels, you have a very long time to wait. Indeed it truly is not there.
So why do you ignore the trucking side where almost 100% of the tractors (of the tractor and trailer rig) are diesel? If gassers had the durability and advantage you would think at best most would be gassers. Most are diesels!! It is not uncommon for tractors to have 1M miles on them. You probably have noticed that a lot of Fed EX and UPS trucks that deliver to your door are diesel. Some diesels are so advantageous that they can even be rebuilt without removing the engine.
Actually you answered your own quote with another of your following posts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel You did post this? The potential exists for bio diesel from algae cultivation. The potential gals per acre is HUGE in comparison to the example (corn) you cite. You might wish to go to that article you posted about biodiesel and report what the figures actually are for corn (18 gals) vs algae (10,000 gals) per acre of cultivation. The point (utility) to me is "IF" there is a policy shift to bio diesel; bio diesel can be gotten literally from a myraid of sources, i.e., most of them NOT wanting to bring down civilization as WE know it. Indeed most of the ways we get unleaded regular is seen as environmentally unfriendly. Of course, the wide scale cultivation of algae from lands close to the sea (water, does limitless come to mind??) will probably be nix by the environmentalists... The environmentalists have long ago locked up the coasts, probably envisioning this most viable way of energy self sufficiency. You know those very same people that want to SAVE the planet from unleaded regular???? Very very strange bed fellows!!??.......
I do not think that the difference between American and European family vehicle fleets is nowadays as wide as it was in the past. This is anyway an opinion, not an estimate.
Track fleets are different, I believe. Big tracks for merchandise transport have clean-diesel engines in Europe, with all the new developments such a common rail injection, filters, etc. You can drive in the middle of a gang of those trucks without coughing or getting a headache.
On the other hand, I am not the average of European drivers for sure, but the average of my driving a 2004 BMW 530d for 38 months now is 41.63 miles per gallon (USA Units). This has been achieved through 73% of road driving and 27% of downtown sneaking.
Some of my friends, also drivers of similar diesel cars, say this consume is higher than theirs. I am not sure, since they tend to underestimate their consume and overestimate their speed.
Regards from Spain, which is as European as Ireland,
Jose
Jose
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
...Good to hear from you. Sounds like that 530d is a wonderful car. The sooner they are offered in the USA the better. A diesel X5 would get my attention for sure. Keep us posted on any new diesel developments. "...
I was thinking this out loud, but I got to wondering what the regulators in the US have against "BIGGER" cars that actually get 41 mpg!!???
I also follow the Honda Civic (small car) Real World MPH, and the mpg is literally all over the place 16-43 mpg. I report what we get in a daily commute, 38-42 mpg and plenty of folks wax: " no way Jose"
As for the bulls, I tried to run them twice, when I was younger. But in fact I ran them keeping such a good excessive distance than I cannot say those runs were ortodoxe nor valiant
Regards,
Jose
Regards,
Jose
Hybrids in their present form are problematic. If there were to be a fuel crisis tomorrow, could you...
1. Could you run any gasser hybrid on anything more than E10 reliably without modifying any mechanical part in the engine?
2. Will a gasser hybrid maintain the same level of FE if the amount of ethanol in gasoline increases significantly(40 -60%)?
3. Since the majority of commuting in this country is more highway like than city like, diesel is king for that type of driving whereas hybrid is king for inner city stop and go driving.
Add to this that this is a "Diesel" forum, why would hybrids even be part of the discussion?
There are many of us here who have not dismissed hybrids but do see them as part of the solution to dependence to foreign oil. A good number of the posters here just happen to prefer diesel over hybrids, plain and simple.
I'm still trying to get around Ireland being European!; Spain seems a far easier reach:)
12/04/2007 12:32
Lance Branquinho
Toyota's venerable Land Cruiser range has been updated with a facelifted version of the 70-series bakkie joined by a brand new, diesel-powered, wagon version.
The revamped Oriental-overlander does not depart radically form its utilitarian roots, styling is still a study in form following function, with a more rounded nose softening the overall appearance of the face lifted bakkie versions.
Newly available, and exclusively in South Africa outside the Japanese market, the 70-series station wagon has a decidedly chunky appearance. With a dash of chrome around the nose, its lineage is unambiguously closer to its bakkie sibling than the larger 100-series wagon or contemporary Land Cruiser Prado.
Although the bakkie is still hardly pretty, the more rounded styling works, and the wagon has a certain retro charm about it. Both the bakkie and wagon are characteristically urban-unfriendly off-roaders, by appearance, and more explicitly by nature.
Parking them up on side-walks at the shopping centre or local gym will garner little posing value. Driving them on tar is a ponderous experience - especially the diesel versions - and the bakkie rides quite harshly on tar when unladen.
Crush Land
Thursday, 12 April 2007
While the wraps are officially being taken off the 2007 DTM season in Dusseldorf on Sunday, the American motorsport fans are looking with mounting interest towards Long Beach (USA) this coming weekend: In the Californian coastal town close to Los Angeles the most important and traditional street race in USA will take place. The event has been held since 1975 and was earlier the scene of the US Formula 1 Grand Prix. The 33rd running this year welcomes the American Le Mans Series for the first time - and, as a result, also the Audi R10 TDI.
Image
(c) Audi Motorsport
The revolutionary Audi Diesel sportscar and its winning streak have hogged the headlines in the USA for more than one year. Most of the fans - including the many celebrities visiting Long Beach this weekend from Los Angeles, Malibu or Beverly Hills to see the race - are excited about the appearance of the powerful 650 hp Le Mans Prototype in the "Monaco of USA".
"In contrast to Europe, the subject of Diesel is only just starting to break through in the USA," says German actor Ralf Moeller, who lives in California, is friends with Arnold Schwarzenegger, and is also a big motorsport fan. "The Audi R10 TDI is excellent proof of just what a state-of-the-art Diesel engine can produce. The Americans are well impressed by it. The Diesel will also establish itself in the USA in the long term."
Team Audi Sport North America proved 14 days ago by taking a one-two in St. Petersburg (Florida) that the Audi R10 TDI, which was specifically developed for the high-speed circuit at Le Mans, can also win on street circuits. The track in Long Beach is new for every driver. Allan McNish, who flew out to California on Tuesday and inspected the circuit on foot, is convinced that the spectators can prepare themselves for a very exciting race: "The circuit is made up of a series of tight corners, but also straights. Although the regulations stipulate that our R10 TDI must weigh 150 kg more than the lighter LM P2 cars from Porsche and Acura/Honda it will be a close battle yet again."
The REAL Zoom Zoom Zoom
Mini's first sporty diesel
First there's an all-new and unprecedented Mini Cooper D (pictured above), which promises to be a multi-talented Mini hatchback that's both frugal and fun to drive.
The last-generation Mini used Toyota's unsuitable 1.4-litre four-pot diesel engine; the new Mini uses a cleaner and more powerful 1.6-litre turbodiesel related to the one you'll find in the Peugeot 207 and Ford Fiesta. It produces 109bhp and 192lb ft of torque on overboost, both significant improvements over the last Mini diesel, yet it's also cleaner (118g/km v 129g/km) and more frugal (64.2 combined mpg v 58.9).
That's about 53 MPG with the US ratings !! Gimme Gimme !!!
Sporty Mini Diesel
Euro Diesels abound
'Cause Baby You Jaguar
What a difference the diesel makes!? Some relatives who have a gasser version, normally get 12 mpg. Babying the thing on the road, they get 15 mpg. 42 mpg is certainly less consumptive of resources, not to mention some of the other benefits.
That has not been my experience. I sold my 2000 GTI GLX after about 40000 miles. I had purchased it new. In that time, I replaced the rear struts and shock top mounts twice (and they were bad again when i sold it), starter motor, coil pack, MAF, spark plugs, plug wires, rear brakes, turn signal stalk, AC compressor, thermostat. I'm sure there's more that I can't remember. In summary, it was as unreliable a car as I've ever had. Every bit as bad as my 1978 Pontiac.
It is true, certainly, that the incompetent dealer service I suffered through at the VW dealer didn't help. But if the car didn't break in the first place, then I wouldn't have been at that dealer except for regular maintenance.
In contrast, I've got about 60,000 miles now on my 2003 Toyota 4Runner. In that time, I've replaced the brakes. That's it (plus regular lube, oil & filter, etc.).
Sorry, but the reality is that VW reliability still is not there.
The XJ has scooped a number of awards since its launch and most recently, the 2.7 Diesel was named the greenest luxury car on Britain’s roads in the Environmental Transport Association’s 2007 Car Buyers Guide. Other most recent notable awards for the XJ include ‘Best Luxury Car’ at the 2007 Business Car Awards and ‘Best Luxury Car’ for the XJ Diesel at the 2006 Fleet World Honours.
PS
If Ford would bring some of this green technology to the US it may help them survive.
Nanostellar, which specializes in molecules and materials for making diesel engines run more efficiently, has devised a new coating for the inside of catalytic converters--devices that reduce emissions before they leave a car's tailpipe--that will both cost less than traditional coatings and cut down further on pollution.
The secret ingredient is gold, explained CEO Pankaj Dhingra. The company combines gold along with platinum and palladium into a material called NS Gold that car and auto parts makers will sprinkle into a new line of cleaner catalytic converters. Ideally, NS Gold will increase oxidation activity, i.e. the chemical reaction that reduces pollutants, by about 40 percent compared with conventional catalytic converters and about 20 percent compared with the converters treated with materials Nanostellar already sells.
"At the nano level, gold becomes very active, but until now no one has been able to make it for automotive use," he said in an interview. "You have high temperatures, a huge amount of oxygen. At high temperatures most materials are not stable."
Although gold at the nano level can assume different colors, NS Gold lives up to its name. At Nanostellar's lab, CNET News.com saw a beaker of the material swirling in a liquid. The mixture looked like the inside of an Orange Julius machine.
ConocoPhillips and Tyson Foods Announce Strategic Alliance
To Produce Next Generation Renewable Diesel Fuel
HOUSTON and SPRINGDALE, Ark., April 16, 2007 --- ConocoPhillips [NYSE:COP] and Tyson Foods, Inc. [NYSE:TSN] will announce a strategic alliance at 12 p.m. CDT today to produce and market the next generation of renewable diesel fuel, which will help supplement the traditional petroleum-based diesel fuel supply. The alliance plans to use beef, pork and poultry by-product fat to create a transportation fuel. This fuel will contribute to America’s energy security and help to address climate change concerns.
Over the last year, the companies have been collaborating on ways to leverage Tyson’s advanced knowledge in protein chemistry and production with ConocoPhillips’ processing and marketing expertise to introduce a renewable diesel to the United States. Tyson will make capital improvements this summer in order to begin pre-processing animal fat from some of its North American rendering facilities later in the year. ConocoPhillips also will begin the necessary capital expenditures to enable it to produce the fuel in several of its refineries. The finished product will be renewable diesel fuel mixtures that meet all federal standards for ultra-low-sulfur diesel. Production is expected to ramp up
over time to as much as 175 million gallons per year of renewable diesel.
“We are firmly committed to leveraging our leadership position in the food industry to identify and commercialize renewable energy opportunities,” said Richard L. Bond, Tyson president and chief executive officer. “This strategic alliance is a big win for the entire agricultural sector because it paves the way for greater participation of fats and oils in renewable fuels.”
“ConocoPhillips believes the key to a secure energy future is the development and efficient use of diverse energy sources,” said Jim Mulva, ConocoPhillips chairman and chief executive officer. “This alliance will provide a new and significant contribution to our nation’s domestic renewable fuel supply. It also offers an excellent opportunity to use our company’s manufacturing expertise and advanced technology to help increase the supply of renewable fuels and to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.”
Using a proprietary thermal depolymerization production technology, the animal fats will be processed with hydrocarbon feedstocks to produce a high-quality diesel fuel that meets all federal standards for ultra-low-sulfur diesel. The addition of animal fat also improves the fuel’s ignition properties, while the processing step improves its storage stability and handling characteristics.
Investments made by ConocoPhillips and Tyson will allow for the processing and handling of fat and enhance the ability of the United States to produce energy from a variety of sources, including domestically-produced vegetable oils.
The processing technology was developed at ConocoPhillips, culminating in a successful test at the company’s Whitegate Refinery in Cork, Ireland. ConocoPhillips began commercial production of renewable diesel using soybean oil in Ireland late last year.
This alliance is expected to be a positive step for Tyson’s long term financial performance. “Production is expected to begin in late calendar year 2007, ramping up through spring 2009,” Bond said. “Once at full production, we currently project between $0.04 and $0.16 cents per share in additional annual earnings. However, this will be driven by factors such as the prices of wholesale diesel and animal fat."
Benefits of Renewable Diesel
Produces lower life-cycle carbon emissions
Increases energy security by using a domestic and renewable energy source
Can be used in today’s vehicles.
Can be produced and distributed with existing refineries and fuel distribution systems
Refinery quality control systems ensure product quality
BTW- diesel engines typically last longer simply because there is less stress at work in the engine. Lower revs = less work on the part of the engine. Also fewer moving parts in a diesel engine therefore fewer parts to break.
I can see it now. "A Tyson chicken in every Tank".
i don't know if i would call it less stress. Yes, the lower revs help, but the extremely high compression ratio does not. One of the reasons for their longevity is that they are built to survive those high compression ratios.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
On a more macro level, I literally had to look for a small needle in a HUGEhaystack to find this information: the design life for a TDI is 25,000 hours at 80% (constant) load.
It is also close to a state secret what the normal design life for a gasser would be. That would fall under the category of a doz huge haystacks with only one needle- and a small one at that.
quote-
As the auto industry moves toward more fuel efficient, cleaner vehicles, there's a cluster of automotive, environmental, and energy experts rooting for the diesel engine.
Perhaps their biggest challenge is to convince drivers that today's diesels aren't the slow, noisy, smelly diesels of the past.
A leading voice in that effort is DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group, which in January started producing its second diesel vehicle for North America.
Hitting dealerships soon is a diesel version of the Jeep Grand Cherokee. This comes after the automaker sold more than it expected of the diesel Jeep Liberty last year, Robert Lee, vice president of powertrain product engineering for DCX, told more than 100 people at the Society of Automotive Engineers World Congress on Monday at Cobo Hall. The Liberty diesel was an experiment to see if consumers would be willing to pay an extra $1,500 for a diesel vehicle.
It worked well enough for Chrysler to release the diesel Grand Cherokee, which costs an extra $3,000, and is expected to save drivers $592 a year on fuel.
Diesels make up less than 0.5% of the cars produced in North America — though a greater percentage of trucks. By 2015, diesel car production expected to increase to 15% and 18% by 2020, according to estimates from the University of Michigan’s Transportation Research Institute.
Offering an average of 30% better fuel efficiency than gasoline engines, diesels are a good gasoline alternative for highway driving, compared to a hybrid, which is ideal for stop-and-go city traffic, said Jim Eberhardt, a scientist with the Department of Energy.....end quote
How about offering the Chrysler 300 Touring Diesel (Magnum in Chryler guise that is sold in Europe) for the USA?:)
"A Spanish research team has reported today that it is successfully developing a process in order to efficiently produce petrol from algae. Such a process will consume atmospheric CO2 instead of 02. The end-product should be gasoline, diesel fuel, kerosene, plastics, etc... even coal."
We will see, cautiously thoug with hope.
Regards,
Jose
ML320 CDI
Economically The "surplus" animal fat available to produce diesel fuel will be immediately absorbed in the demand stream. The increased use of dead animal fat will then produce an additional up stream demand that has the effect of increasing the marginal rate of profit of animal production and therefore increase production itself. As producing animals for any purpose creates an additional demand for animal feed, this development will also drive that demand. Any increase in the growing load on the available farm land increases the cost of food for all consumption, animal or human. It will concomittantly increase the the use of water, which is in increasingly short supply, and also that of fertilizer which is largely fossil fuel dependent. Additionally, feed lot methane production, a green house gas, will be increased, ground water pollution from animal waste and chemicals, now down to the third level aquifers, will also become worse. The poluted water will become increasingly more costly and energy dependent to clean up, to the extent that it can be at all. I am sure that the corporations, who are the chief beneficiaries of this diesel petroleum scheme, will be more than happy to address the un-recognized costs of their enterprise.
And that is only the tip of the ice berg.
There don't seem to be any free lunches.
For change of behavior toward diesel, not much is really required as for ethanol. Just let diesel models be available, let them get 30-40% fuel economy over like unleaded regular models. If you want to accelerate the changeover, cut the tax rate and %. This is too sensical and logical which translates to politically impossibility.
For change of behavior toward diesel, not much is really required as for ethanol. Just let diesel models be available, let them get 30-40% fuel economy over like unleaded regular models. This uses less resources than unleaded regular and even less resources compared to ethanol. The cost per mile driven is easily 20-40% cheaper. If you want to accelerate the changeover to diesel, cut the tax rate, volume and %. This is FAR too sensical and logical, which translates to political impossibility.
Of course there is hydrogen. A Civic sized car gets all of 22 mpg. Current price of hydrogen per gal WEIGHT= 18 dollars per.
German auto supplier Behr GmbH & Co. KG today introduced three parts at the SAE 2007 World Congress that the company says will reduce emissions and improve driver comfort in diesel-powered vehicles.
They are:
1. Positive temperature coefficient heaters, which enable vehicle heating systems to emit warm air the moment the key is turned.
2. No-idle air conditioning, which enables vehicle air-conditioning systems to operate with the engine turned off.
3. High-volume exhaust gas recirculation coolers, which help reduce the amount of oxides of nitrogen, or NOx, produced by diesel-powered vehicles.
-end
The industrial food business produces waste in the shape of parts and fats and unused by-product that may or may not end up in dog food, cattle feed etc. The companies involved are using those products towards a fuel instead of pet food or simply dumping it.
Additionally large amounts of oils (vegetable) are used in the production of such delicacies as chicken tenders, this is a profit making outlet for the used by-product.
The plan is not the production of animals for fuel. It the use of the byproducts from the creation of the finished product.
I do not think that a lot of folks understand that making biodiesel is not a new process. Most of these formulas were used decades ago. Just like making diesel from coal was used heavily by the Germans in WW2. It all has to do with being cost effective. Taking little baby steps into different aspects of using waste products is wiser than jumping in with billions of tax dollars given to mega corporations with little to show after a few years.
A good example is Kettle Chips in Oregon. They own a fleet of VW Beetle diesels. They run them on their used oil from making potato chips. They power part of their operation with Solar. No tax dollars wasted just good solid environmentalism. And it pays off. Great chips also.
http://www.kettlefoods.com/index.php?cID=19
In recent years, the rate of growth in diesel use has been outpacing that of gasoline use, especially as commercial trucking payloads have increased under a strong U.S. economy.
Americans use 140 billion gallons of petroleum a year -- or more than 20 million barrels of oil a day. Estimates suggest use will top 200 billion gallons in the next decade as the number of vehicle miles rises by 2 percent yearly."...
Well I think on threads like these we have seen the utterly simple to the multiple layered complexity... to the absurdly ridiculous.
So if it is true the USA using 140 B gals of (gasser) petro per year, is it a good/bad thing to use 30-40% less? Is there a greater/lesser consequence to lesser byproducts!?
Pretty simple if you ask me.
But then with the GASSER passenger vehicle fleet at UPWARDS of 97%; inertia is a very potent force. Passenger diesels at less than 3% of the passenger vehicle fleet has/have never been the problem, despite loud and vocal protestations from the gasser folks and those who stand to lose have maintained. I would ask the gasser naysayers to... do the math.......
http://www.oilwatchdog.org/?topicId=8055&/Chevron
Separately; I was able to offer some assistance to a friend who wanted to buy a used diesel. She settled on a pristine 2002 GTI with 48K from an original owner. It would not be my choice for congested city driving, (I am using the bus!) but she is ecstatic! and what else really matters to an individual? She is running 10% Bio Diesel available locally.
Question: As BD tends to dislodge fuel line build up in older cars that have not run BD, which can then foul fuel injectors, should she change the fuel filter now or later? At 10-20% concentration, is it even a concern?
I run B5 or B10 every fourth or fifth tankful and so far no issues. I have run as high as B40 once and there was no detrimental effect. I will be changing the fuel filter in the next couple of weeks and let you know how it looks.
My error; of course it is a TDI not a GTI.
Higher concentrations, and certainly at B100, requires more adjustments. Fuel filter should be replaced and rubber seals need to be replaced with teflon coated seals to prevent the cleaning characteristic of the bio fuel from eating away the rubber.
These adjustments have been an impediment to wide-scale use of B100 in a lot of big-rig fleets.