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However, it is also a subject that naturally invites comparisons as it is in direct competition with state of the art gas/gas hybrid vehicles at a time of decreased fuel supplies and increased pollution, both factors that diesel has a potential effect upon.
Either expand the site or close it; otherwise all you have is a site for promoting diesel sales without the ability of others to counter the hype. A handful of diesel "prophets" ranting endlessly about their superiority is sometimes entertaining, but not useful in a "crises" world.
Secondly, only sales and PR people speak in such glowing absolutes as you use - there are always trade offs as well as comparitive downsides.
Thirdly, I have stated that diesel probably has a place in the pantheon of alternatives, and that discussions about it in comparison to other means of transportation including gas/gas hybrids is necessary and useful.
Fourthly, you know all of this but prefer to maintain the closed door of hyperbole and distortion that has turned the site into a rant dominated by a few "prophets of diesel" rather than a discussion for general audiences.
Keep in mind, at one part of the growth of the populations of GASSER SUV's, it was going to overtake the whole passenger vehicle fleet! Of course it is STILL at a minority position of 12% of the population after 30 plus years!!??? So until things get serious or things really wake up one way or the other, I (most/some) will just continue to use diesel which is up more 40% less resources intense and costs app 25%-40% less, per mile driven. When it becomes again par with unleaded regular, I will switch emphasis to unleaded regular.
The title of this discussion is clear and simple - Diesels in the News. It is not "Alternative Fuels", "Diesels vs Hybrids", or "Emissions Concerns". If the subject does not suit your philosophy, then don't post in this discussion. Topic drift happens everywhere... it's no longer "drift" when it's a constant occurrence towards the same off-topic argument every day.
There's a reason the previous diesel vs hybrid discussion was killed. It's obvious that people are deeply entrenched in their opinions. That's why we have separate Diesels and Hybrid boards.
kcram - Pickups Host
I'd like to hear more about that CRV diesel announcement mentioned earlier...
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
Nice way to reduce landfill, and have a good quality fuel. The military is putting millions of dollars into this.
25 NX 450h+ / 24 Sienna Plat AWD / 23 Civic Type-R / 21 Boxster GTS 4.0
during winter when diesel fuel price exceeds premium-unleaded, i am happy to pay more per gallon as long as that results in lots more mpg and reducing oil imports.
(which i think it does) .
a possibly related factoid is that diesel cars use a miniscule amount of diesel fuel compared to bigrigs/busses/construction-equipment/etc.
i think i've read that that diesel cars/pickups/SUVs in USA use about 0.2% of diesel fuel burned in USA - or less. that's with 3% of US fleet being diesel. so if the fleet diesel percentage triples to 9% , the diesel fuel consumption for cars/SUVs/pickups could go up to about 0.6%. is that enough to affect diesel fuel price? i don't know, but i'd guess "not much".
I understand that a barrel of oil can produce about 30% diesel and 70% gasoline. so it seems to me that we ought to optimize the US fleet percentage somewhere in that ballpark, considering also the weighted average of gallons-used & mpg, all that stuff.
While I agree with your reasoning and advocation of policy, here are some factoids:
barrel of oil = 42 gals
gasoline production 19.3 gals =46%
diesel production 9.83 gals = 23.4%
the remaining 30.6% finds its outlets in a host of different markets and applications. (another discussion)
http://www.sanjosegasprices.com/crude_products.aspx
Most folks do NOT understand the ramifications of these ratios. Additionally, use of diesel imparts a 20-45% gain of fuel mileage. This of course further belies the diesel advantage by a min of 25%.
Also it is fairly obvious the whole passenger vehicle fleet fuel delivery system is "finely tuned" for unleaded regular with two so called "profit" padders: mid grade, premium. Upwards of 97% of the passenger vehicle fleet using (unleaded) gasoline.
Price of diesel goes up 5 cents a gallon; oil prices drop
WASHINGTON (April 9, 2007) — The average retail on-highway price of a gallon of diesel and the price of a barrel of crude oil looked like the opposite ends of a seesaw today with diesel prices riding the higher end of the teeter-totter.
The Energy Information Administration of the Department of Energy said the average price of a gallon of diesel rose a nickel to $2.84 a gallon for the week ended April 9, marking the first time since last November that the average price had exceeded $2.80 a a gallon.
The average price has increased 42.7 cents a gallon since the week ended January 29, when the average price was $2.413, and has gone up each week. Where and when the upward trend will stop, experts probably don't know, but an upward spiral in late January last year saw the price increase from $2.472 all the way up to over $3 in early August before the price started down again, ending the year at $2.606.
3.22 unleaded regular
3.09 #2 ULSD
I also probably should add at 39 mpg and at 49 mpg the diesel cost per mile driven is 23.6% cheaper than its gasser mate.
Diesel $2.79 cheapest
Reg Unleaded $2.76 cheapest
From "This Week In Petroleum"
Gasoline and Diesel Prices Both Up Significantly
Gasoline prices saw another significant increase for the week of April 2, 2007, jumping 9.7 cents to 270.7 cents per gallon. This is the ninth consecutive week of increases; prices are now 11.9 cents per gallon higher than at this time last year. All regions reported higher prices. East Coast prices were up 9.6 cents to 267.1 cents per gallon, while Midwest prices rose 9.6 cents to 261.4 cents per gallon. The Gulf Coast saw the largest regional increase, with prices up 12.3 cents to 256.5 cents per gallon. In the Rocky Mountains, prices increased 8.1 cents to 261.9 cents per gallon. West Coast prices were up 8.0 cents to 309.6 cents per gallon, with the average price for regular grade in California up 7.6 cents to 322.8 cents per gallon, 48.5 cents per gallon above last year's price.
Retail diesel prices also increased this week, rising 11.4 cents to 279.0 cents per gallon. Prices are now 17.3 cents per gallon higher than at this time last year. All regions reported price increases. East Coast prices rose 10.7 cents to 276.4 cents per gallon. The Midwest saw the largest jump, with prices up 12.5 cents to 278.0 cents per gallon. The Gulf Coast saw an increase of 12.3 cents to 276.6 cents per gallon and Rocky Mountain prices were up 10.4 cents to 288.4 cents per gallon. Prices on the West Coast saw an increase of 8.2 cents to 288.5 cents per gallon. California prices rose 7.0 cents to 293.9 cents per gallon, and are 12.7 cents per gallon higher than at this time last year.
Diesel $2.79 cheapest
Reg Unleaded $2.76 cheapest
Might be a dumb question, but is that 2.79 #2 diesel, ULSD?
Sure would be neat to pay .30 cents less per gal.
Using the 39/49 mpg's, diesel in your neck of the woods is 19.5% cheaper
I just bought 5 gallons of ULSD for my tractor at $2.91 per gallon. That same ARCO was selling unleaded for $3.22 per gallon. I could save a few cents by using red dye diesel. I am trying to do my part. Maybe I will get some carbon credits.
Diesel $2.79 cheapest
Reg Unleaded $2.76 cheapest
Might be a dumb question, but is that 2.79 #2 diesel, ULSD?
Sure would be neat to pay .30 cents less per gal.
Using the 39/49 mpg's, diesel in your neck of the woods is 19.5% cheaper "...
For diesel, 40% cheaper per mile driven.
Even as I am curious, the various emissions regulatory agencies see this population as a TOTAL NON issue. In any case, they are EXEMPT.
kcram - Pickups Host
The use of biodiesel instead of diesel reduces emissions of carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide and sulphur dioxide.
The company plans to produce 34m litres of biodiesel each year, which will be the equivalent of taking 25,000 cars off the road in terms of reduction of carbon dioxide emissions.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0412/biofuel.html
I received this today. It is an article about Ex-CIA chief Woolsey. This was part of his proposal. He is living what he preaches. His farm is solar powered and drives a fuel efficient car.
Improve fuel economy.
In Europe, the average economy of private vehicles is 42 mpg, nearly double the U.S.'s 24 mpg, largely due to their reliance on efficient, next-generation, clean-burning diesel engines.
I have tried various concentrations of biodiesel in my Jeep Liberty CRD from B5 to B40 (self blended). The Jeep ran better than on straight dino diesel, was quieter and seemed to have more get up and go. There was no degradation in FE either.
I read the article by Woolsey (was in a Sunday paper). Imagine if monies used for pork were spent on making our country energy independent, how wonderful that would be.
Would you have a URL for an online version?
Imagine if monies used for pork were spent on making our country energy independent, how wonderful that would be.
Don't even get me started. Somehow I don't see how we will ever get there without a revolution in mentality and without throwing all the whor^H^H^H^Hbums out.
Veted source please.
I am wondering what scientific or environmental qualifications a panel of 44 auto journalists might have that gives the award any significant meaning. I think a similar panel gave the 1960 Corvair an award for being the most inovative.
Apparently terrorism is a valid subject for this site as it has been mentioned so many times by so many posters. As we speak there are demonstration in Mexico against the rising price of corn meal. American farmers are planting more "Bio corn" and less food corn because the price is better and likely to be more predictable, and the crops are easier to grow. Note that currently it is used primarily to produce ethanol for gas vehicles. Other types of crops could be substituted, but any reliance on crop land for fuel means less crop land available for food production, however marginal. With 16,000 children in the world starving to death everyday (Recent UN estimate) do any of us begin to feel like terrorists in our reliance on any automobile that depends on agriculture to sustain itself? Doesn't it seem that at some point severe legal restrictions will be placed on the automobile including diesel, and the unmentionable other car words?
As for making US farmers rich through framing for bio fuels: the vast majority of farming is done by US corporations, not US farmers.
I have been unable to verify the 42 vs 24 numbers. But for discussions sake, I wonder if an analysis of the comparitive size and weight of the vehicles might indicate that the European vehicle fleet is on average newer, smaller, and lighter than the American fleet and that that contributes very significantly to increased average fuel economy?
kcram - Pickups Host
pf_flyer, "Hybrid Diesels?" #376, 3 Dec 2006 7:26 am
Scientists believe carbon dioxide is one of the main greenhouse gases contributing to global warming. Neat biodiesel (100% biodiesel) reduces carbon dioxide emissions by more than 75% over petroleum diesel. Using a blend of 20% biodiesel reduces carbon dioxide emissions by 15%.
Biodiesel also produces fewer particulate matter, carbon monoxide, and sulfur dioxide emissions (all air pollutants under the Clean Air Act).
Since biodiesel can be used in conventional diesel engines, the renewable fuel can directly replace petroleum products; reducing the country's dependence on imported oil.
Biodiesel offers safety benefits over petroleum diesel because it is much less combustible, with a flash point greater than 150°C, compared to 77°C for petroleum diesel. It is safe to handle, store, and transport.
http://www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/altfuel/bio_benefits.html
After several hours of searching and weeding I located this as well - you may already have it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biodiesel
I am also searching for current similar environmental comparisons of gas to petroleum diesel - not to be debated here, but for my own elucidation.
http://www.biodiesel.com/
Pacific Biodiesel, Inc. was born in 1996 as the answer to grave concerns over potential environmental and health problems resulting from restaurant grease clogging the Central Maui Landfill. Robert King, owner of King Diesel on Maui, who was contracted to maintain the generators at the Landfill, decided to do something about it.
The small scale, economically feasible Maui operation was recognized by biodiesel authorities nationwide as one of the first commercially viable biodiesel plants in the U.S. In 1997, Japanese businessman Soichiro "Sol" Yoshida contracted Pacific Biodiesel to design and build a similar plant for his Kentucky Fried Chicken franchise in Nagano, Japan. (That plant now processes used cooking oil from 60 restaurants, producing biodiesel that completely powers one KFC restaurant as well as many cars, trucks, and industrial engines.)
Agreed. Also, the perception of the indispensability of the automobile is at the heart of our auto dependency. The massive investment to "perfect" and rationalize the irrational could have long ago mitigated most of our transportation problems and issues had it been wisely directed.
My post dealt with the absence of inclusionary discussion, not the balance in his posts, where he did however state that he felt diesels had a place, but were not the be all and end all.
I do not see that same inclusion here, but a general dismissal of Hybrids, and gas cars for that matter, as a part of the pantheon of choices.
"Plus you would be saving on fossil fuel for yourself and for your children."
I think the real savings is going to come as a severe jolt to most of us when the artificial dependence on the automobile is cracked. As much as I love cars, and have since I could see one, I hope my grandchildren, now six and two, see that day.
This weekend the American LeMans Series is making it's first visit to the Monaco of America, more commonly known as Long Beach, California. Since the Formula One cars stopped running at Long Beach in the early 1980s, Champ Cars have always been the headliners on Shoreline Drive. This year they will be joined by the ALMS gang led by the storming Audi R10 diesels. The Audi's will be trying to repeat their one-two finish from the St. Petersburg street race two weeks ago and continue their undefeated streak.