Diesels in the News

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes I would agree! Since we know that the old EPA is a strict procedural test (whether I, you, we, agree/disagree don't care, etc) :) , it is pretty spot on for comparison purposes. I actually did the same thing with the Civic, which is how I know the difference is -1 mpg for the auto vs manual. This of course prompted me to say there are very few oems that have "optimized" the auto as compared to the manual.
  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    My dear hypnosis44 - you hypnotize me!
    Concerning the unequal wear of the clutching shoe I totally have to agree with you and believe me - for this reason cobblers are among the richest people here in Europe.
    But I am wondering how you´d like to manage your turns out of city stop and go traffic? As on American Freeways it is quite common here in Germany to indicate the intention of passing or swapping lanes. Will your turn signal work properly at 100 mph and above?? I have to confess I´m a bit afraid of checking it out - and not only on behalf of aerodynamic efficiency!
    Millions of Americans spend a lot of money in gyms to get rid of their superfluous pounds - and you complain about a free training on the clutch pedal...?

    Have a nice day....tomcat63
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    Both ZF and Eaton build heavy duty (class 8) AMTs for buses and trucks. Bus manufacturer MCI reports that the ZF AS-Tronic not only weighs 1000 pounds less than the comparable Allison B500 automatic, it also allows the diesel engines to get far better economy by keeping the rpm in a tighter rev range, closer to the torque peak and lowest fuel consumption.

    In addition, lots of truck and bus fleets are buying them for the ease of operation - they're essentially manual transmissions with computer-controlled (instead of pedal-controlled) clutches. Less abuse by drivers means longer life, steadier driving, and better use of #2 fuel.

    An 8-speed AMT would sell like wildfire in HD pickups. I'd certainly buy one for my next pickup if it were offered.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    "...cobblers are among the richest people here in Europe." Laughed until I cried! Any women cobblers there as I am looking to re-marry?

    Signalling to change lanes? - now there is a concept! I have heard rumors of it happening, and have seen on occasion a light flicker here and there, sometimes accompanied by a lane change, sometimes not. This has led us to the acceptance of the "randomness equation" in most of our driving.

    You hit a nerve with that cruel reference to obesity in Americans. It may be a factor in the "randomness equation". Perhaps the offending overweightness has reached the turn signal lever. If this was the case it seems that most of the signals would be left turn rather than right turn. More study is clearly needed here.

    The "free training" on the clutch pedal, however, may be an effective marketing tool for selling stick shifts at a premium in some markets. Given the bizarre tastes exhibited by some of my country persons, the "hefty left leg" could become a new style norm!

    About the only place you can reach a 100 MPH here is in the Southwest and Northwest where there is a car about every three days, and little need to signal a lane change unless you like the clicking sound. Freeways lane changes, if they can occur at all at five miles per hour, are accompanied with gesticulations and shouting, and the occassional thrown object. Sometimes shots are fired, but always in good humor.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Have you had any experience with the 5 speed Tiptronic in the Mercedes Sprinter? I had an MB Sprinter RV with that wonderful Mercedes 5 cylinder diesel and 5 speed automatic. It was great going down hills. Just tap it down till you were comfortable with the decent speed. With that powertrain I consistently got 22-24 MPG in an 8500lb motor home. I would love to have that setup in my GMC 1/2 ton PU truck. I know I could get any easy 30-35 MPG.

    The sad story is the new Sprinter will be built in Charleston SC and be offered with a gas engine. There goes the great mileage.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 268,115
    They won't quit offering the diesel in the Sprinter.. Too many delivery companies depend on them.

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  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Your comment (if true) is a HUGE precurer at how important diesel has been and now is spilling off in the passenger vehicle fleet.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 268,115
    I don't know how significant that is... They aren't going to stop offering diesels in Kenworth tractors, either.. Not sure how that equates to passenger cars.. ;)

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  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I think switching to diesel in passenger vehicles is not unlike (the flat earth: round earth concept) the switch in concept from falling off the edge of the flat earth to the concept of it being round. This is especially true in light of the fact the passenger diesel fleet is less than 3%; with the gasser passenger vehicle fleet being upwards of 97%.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 268,115
    Yeah.. but, the Sprinter isn't a passenger vehicle.. It is a work truck. Just because gagrice got a bed in his, still doesn't make it a passenger vehicle... ;)

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  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I was stating what I read in a November press release. It looks like Daimler was listening to the consumers. I cannot imagine owning one of these with a gas engine. I am not sure the new V6 will give the mileage that the old 5 cylinder was capable of. They should be rolling off the line by now.

    DaimlerChrysler Opens Sprinter Assembly Plant in Charleston, SC DaimlerChrysler today officially kicked off the production of the new Sprinter under the Dodge and Freightliner brands at the new assembly plant in Ladson near Charleston, South Carolina. The inauguration ceremonies took place with South Carolina Governor Mark Sanford. The Sprinter has been assembled and sold in the U.S. since 2001. The former plant in Gaffney, annual capacity around 22,000 units, no longer could cope with the growing sales. A production capacity of 32,000 units now is available at the new plant where 180 employees are working to reassemble the Sprinter on a 42,780 square meter (460,000 sq. ft.) site. $35 million was invested in the plant. The all-new Sprinter goes on sale this spring.
    Mar 27, 2007

    Dodge Introduces All-new 2007 Sprinter
    Some of the features of the new Sprinter:
    --'Super-sized' Sprinter is Longer, Wider and taller; Offers More Space, Choices, Features and Innovations
    --Increase in maximum width (two inches), interior height (11 inches), exterior height (13 inches), door opening height (5 inches), cargo area length (19 inches), vehicle length (30 inches), cargo volume (127 cu. ft.), and towing capacity (2,500 lbs.)
    --Three vehicle lengths (233, 273 and 289 inches)
    --Two new wheelbases: 144 inches, 170 inches or 170 inches extended with 15-inch longer rear overhang
    --Three interior roof height options: standard (65 inches), high (76 inches) and new mega (84 inches)
    --Choice of two all-new engines: new 3.0-liter V-6 diesel or 3.5-liter V-6 gas engine
    --Three Gross Vehicle Weight Rating (GVWR) configurations include new higher maximum (11,030 lbs.)
    --All-new ADAPTIVE ESP(R) takes electronic stability programs to the next level
    Read the full press release here:
    Chrysler Group press release
    Feb 14, 2007
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    We might want to inquire what license is required to operate a Sprinter. Sprinters do come in the work truck option; as do some full sized vans and pu trucks. But really that is a narrow distinction in that there is a a unmet demand for diesels in those segments as many others. Indeed in a more free market, a diesel option in models that seem the most likely to sell would to me to the ideal solution. You don't like it? Don't buy it. You like it? Buy it? Hard to "buy IT" (a diesel in XYZ makes and models) when they don't make IT!!???? Indeed we can even ask the operative question is 12 mpg better than 30/35 mpg. Seems like the market and by default regulators, are saying 12 mpg. Then in practically the same breath, some to all complain about how bad the fuel mileage is.!!???

    The other is one of perception as in the very long running now archived "I Hate SUV's, Why Don't You?" Edmunds.com thread is any indication. Some "extreme" views saw it as the attack of the marauding Hordes, ending western civilization as we know it. Yet according to government registration statistics, it is 12% of the passenger vehicle fleet population. It got to that figure only after app 30 years of "MASSIVE Malthusian" growth! (or .004% per year):) Even at that by actions they are saying that 12 mpg is much better than 30/35 mpg. !!!!!!?????
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Actually the first one I saw came from the factory with lots of seats. It would be for a big family. My Brother in law was looking at them to replace his Suburban. They have 7 children. With the great mileage they are a fine people and stuff hauler as well as a top notch work or delivery vehicle. Nothing comes close to the mileage in its class. UPS and Fedex have a lot of them.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 268,115
    If the Sprinter is for your own use, no special license required.. I don't think it even requires a CDL for commercial use, unless you need something like a HAZ endorsement, or you are carrying passengers for hire.

    I have to agree... The Sprinter with a diesel is probably the greenest option for a motor home, work truck, or even a multi-passenger vehicle..

    FedEx and UPS have a lot of them, because they are so economical. Very low operating costs.

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  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    This is a quick glance on what car makers plan to offer as novelties in the next few years.

    Audi, a 6.0 V12 TD with 500 hp (2008)

    GM, a 2.9 V6 TD with 250 hp (more than the actual Audis, BMWs MBs) for the Cadillac CTS (2009)

    Subaru, a 2.0 Boxer TD with about 180 hp, its first Diesel, intended to be here for 2008

    Fiat, WV and PSA (Peugeot & Citroen) in turn work on developing turbodiesel engines of lesser power, emissions and consume. At present day, the champion in that is the Smart 0.8 CDI: 3.3 liters • 100 km, 88 g • km C02

    WV will make all its diesel engines with common rail injection before 2010

    I think many of these new engines could easily go to the USA as well :)

    On the other hand, all cars with Diesel engine shall have new and more expansive NOx filters because of a more restrictive European rule (EU 5) for NOx emissions to start in 2010. This will make Diesel cars less competitives in terms of price than gassers. But there is also forseen a new rule (2012) intended to further limit CO2 emissions. Diesels and gassers will be then again balanced as Diesels produce far less CO2 emissions than gassers.

    Finally, 70% of the new car registrations were Diesel in Spain in 2006, according to ANFAC (Asociación Nacional de Fabricantes de Automóviles y Camiones). 90% of SUVs, Vans and Minivans were Diesel.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Jose, thanks for that info. On the Luxury Lounge forum someone also posted that BMW would bring to the U.S., in model year 2008, a twin turbo diesel for the BMW X3. I hope they are right.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Jose, a question. Is there any biodiesel being produced in Spain? Seems a natural with your mild climate and abundance of diesel cars.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Yes, there is. I it is sold in many if not most gas stations across the country (every gas station sells Diesel here). Spanish biodiesel is sold at the stations as expansive as premium gas. However, BMW, or at least my local BMW dealer, disencourage the use of biodiesel for the moment. Is BMW waiting to see whether some mechanical damage eventually arises from biodiesel fueling? Kind of clinical test carried on the others that should be.

    On the other hand, I reproduce below what I posted some days ago

    "A Spanish research team has reported … a process in order to efficiently produce petrol from algae. Such a process will consume atmospheric CO2 instead of 02. The end-product should be gasoline, diesel fuel, kerosene, plastics, etc... even coal."

    The team is linked to the University of Alicante. May be you can follow it in the web. They have calculated the land surface to produce enough algae for industrial production. They say it could be economically feasible. May be this could be too a solution for the European agriculture! The problem might possibly then be the water necessary to grow the algae.

    Beatiful and warm Sunday today here, at the northwest Spanish shore. At the sunset hour I am going to have a look across the Ocean to see whether the American continent is closer than yesterday! ;)

    Regards,
    Jose
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    I think increasingly it will become apparent (15-30 years) that ocean water will be the H20 of no brainer major choice to grow algae for a plethora of to be researched and developed products. Suffice to say it is perfect for bio diesel.

    "Such a process will consume atmospheric CO2 instead of 02. The end-product should be gasoline, diesel fuel, kerosene, plastics, etc... even coal."

    I think of course it will have to go through the standardized inertial process, but just your quote should make it self evident why bio diesel is almost a no brainer. 15,000 gals per acre of biodiesel, water is almost oxymoronically plentiful if you are on (floating hydroponic farms, for example) or near the ocean. Also it will be even more plentiful if human behavior is indeed prematurely melting the glacier caps. Not many processes consume the "hated" gas C02 to produce the energy we so call need. Suggesting nuclear is also sensical but a bit like cursing in the environmental churches/temples. Folks were burned at the stakes, etc. for ideals way more mundane and or mainstream.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Right. The sunset has passed and I have had that look to the west. Nice view. Colon (Columbus) started its sailing to America from these very shores. They were then called the Finisterrae (the land-ends). Necessity sharps insight.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • eliaselias Member Posts: 2,209
    this week's autoweek reports the 330d can run on biodiesel, but i don't believe BMW would warranty operation on B100 or anything more than b5 or b20 maybe. they really liked the car and got a mere 32 mpg after beating the snot out of it. apparently it usually gets over 40 mpg. 6 speed manual trans, rear wheel drive, and diesel. SWOON. i'd probably buy one if it ever is available in USA. i'm not holding my breath...
    this is the same autoweek issue with the 800 hp 1965 GTO on the cover. apparently that car is featured on one of the mtv "gimp my ride" shows today, probably already aired in some markets if not all. maybe it will be repeated.
  • bhill2bhill2 Member Posts: 2,609
    The 800 horsepower car on the Autoweek cover is a 1965 Chevy Impala with a turbodiesel running on biodiesel. We deperately need to set standards for biodiesel fuel (I know that the standards already exist) and require that, if these standards are met, the manufacturer must honor the warranty. This won't be simnple, especially when considering existing vehicles that are already on the road and have been burning petrodiesel, but one way or another we have to come up with a way that is acceptable to both manufacturers and buyers of diesel vehicles to allow the burning of biodiesel.

    2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])

  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Here in the US we have a lot of algae already. The runoff from farming corn is killing the Gulf of Mexico. In reality it is encouraging the growth of algae that is killing the other plant and animal life. If we could harvest that massive 5000 square miles of algae to make biodiesel we would have a real solution to our energy problems. Maybe the Spanish will discover how to do it as they discovered the New World. I am jealous of your sunset view, sounds very relaxing.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    How many "I told you so"s will get posted?

    Curb oil addiction with more diesel vehicles? Really?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    As the article mentioned, the Liberty diesel sold way more than expected. MB was very pleased with the two year sales figures for the E320CDI without the CARB wannabe states offering them. The 4 diesel offerings from Mercedes are going out as fast as they get them without discounts. Jeep just started selling the Grand Cherokee with a Mercedes diesel. I would imagine the flood gates will open when Honda has theirs available in all 50 states next year. The good part is the EU has worked out the bugs in the new Honda diesel. It should be a good engine in whatever they opt for. A pilot would be OK with me.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Heh, heh, thanks for posting. Are you becoming a diesel fan?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    I drive my Segway to work everyday, so I smell diesel exhaust on a daily basis - so NO, I'm not a convert.

    But I do think the newer, modern diesel cars using ULSD, as long as they are 50-state certified by the EPA, are clean enough and efficient enough for mass usage.

    Like I have said from day one:

    The first company that puts a diesel/hybrid 5-passenger sedan with EPA rating of 70 MPG+ and a 50-state clean bill of health on the market for around $35K or less will have my business.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    ..."5-passenger sedan with EPA rating of 70 MPG+"...

    Actually I wouldn't mind that in a gasser. :)
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Larsb- Just wanted to mention that I totally respect the fact that you have been in this forum forever, have always defended your position but are open to all the info out there. And good on you for 'walking' your talk with the segway.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    70 mpg would be nice but I want more than 40 horsepower. :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    They are all EPA rated for the WHOLE USA. California and the 4 wannabe states have additional restrictions that keep them from being sold. The EPA has no problem with the current run of diesel cars and SUVs being sold anywhere in the USA.

    You will probably never see your 70 MPG 5 passenger car in the US. Too much riding on keeping things as they are.
  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    ...and Arny "The Terminator" Schwarzenegger shows off in a 3ton Hummer with the aerodynamical efficiency of a concrete wall (but it runs on Biodiesel...). Ridiculous!
  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    Following my honoured previous speaker Jose from Spain, who recently quoted my postings "as examples of the so called German logic" (is it considered to be something really bad?), I´d like to join back to the discussion today.

    I think it´s true, with approx. 70% last year Spain was ranking 2nd after Italy and ahead of Belgium and France with NEW registrated diesel passenger cars in European Community. We don´t have to talk about busses and commercial trucks with payloads over 1,5 tons, of which probably not even a single one has been delivered without a diesel for 30 years here in Europe. The EC average of NEW registrated diesel passenger cars currently is slightly over 50% and increasing. But we still have to keep in mind what actually is "on the road".
    Due to improved quality and longevity the average age of a passenger car operated in Germany in 2006 was 10,6 years and with still plenty of gassers among them. Taking this into consideration we can talk about a current ratio of diesel passenger cars being registrated in Germany of about 45%.
    And, just by the way, what can be worse for a car manufacturer than a consumer being happy and satisfied with his car for over 1 decade? To my opinion it´s the main reason why they are constantly getting on our nerves with partly awfully absurd designs, features and options in order to make us believe we urgently NEED to buy the crap. Have a look at the Audi 500-HP V12 TDI which Jose mentioned to be released next year. As impressive as this latest masterpiece of German engineering might be, isn´t it a little bit counter-productive? You can feed at least 3 common 140-HP 4-banger TDI´s with the fuel this monster will be going to eat...!
    While gasoline consumption dropped down to some 22 million tons we had an overall diesel consumption of 29 million tons for automotive purpose in Germany last year. With a domestic bio-diesel production of slightly over 2 million tons, which almost exclusively is refined from rape-oil, a substitution rate of about 7% was reached. Some 478,000 tons were sold as pure B100, the rest was used for the 5% admixture to regular diesel, which is obligatory since January 2004. Taking into consideration the increasing demand for diesel, experts say the limit will be reached at a 10% substitution rate. The main problem simply is the lack of agricultural acreage - and not to forget about the dangers concealed by vast monocultures (pests etc.).
    Advanced diesel engines and the production of bio-diesel are without any question huge steps into the right direction, but impossibly can be the one and only solution for our problem. To my opinion even the good old gassers still hide plenty of chances. Think about bio-ethanol (E85) or CNG and LPG. As a company truck for my shop I have a 1995 Chevy S-10 pickup with the 4.3 V6 Vortec TBI (and of course 5-speed manual transmission!!). Last year I converted that old iron into a LPG-burner and more than halved my fuel expenses! Sure, there is no improvement in mpg (still an average of 19-20) but LPG burns way cleaner than regular gasoline and is revolutionary cheap here in Germany.
    My conclusion is, we should not only march into one single direction. On behalf of environmental protection and fuel saving we should take every opportunity we can get. :shades:
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Thanks very much bristol2. It's very nice to read that sort of thing. I try to bring good information to the forums and stimulate discussion. I have learned a lot here and hope to continue learning and posting good info.

    In the news - Apparently Californians want more clean diesel cars:

    Recent diesel survey

    However, those percentages changed when respondents were asked if they knew the clean diesel option was “up to $2,000 less expensive than the hybrid electric option, and both options had comparable emissions and fuel economy.” In that case, 54 percent said they would choose a clean diesel vehicle over a hybrid electric vehicle (38 percent).

    Schaeffer said the survey results added statistical support for what most in the diesel industry suspected. “Californians recognize the key role diesel technology plays in the state’s goods movement and farm and construction industries, but they surprised us somewhat in their recognition of diesel passenger cars,” Schaeffer said.

    “We know clean diesel vehicles get up to 40 percent better fuel economy than comparable gasoline vehicles. And we know clean diesel vehicle emissions technology is making them as clean as gasoline vehicles,” Schaeffer said.

    “What we wanted to know is: If a clean diesel is cost-competitive or superior to a hybrid vehicle, would consumers be likely to choose a clean diesel? How much does the price of the technology affect the market competition between both platforms,” he said.

    “Now we know that consumers are likely to choose a clean diesel vehicle over a hybrid electric once they compare fuel economy, emissions and price. This suggests to us that consumers recognize other fuel efficient technologies and are receptive to them,” Schaeffer said.

    Automakers are set to begin introducing clean diesel passenger vehicles in during the 2008 model year.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "Trucking Firms Bemoan Stricter Emissions Rules"

    Industry Says New Engines Cut Mileage With Pollution:...

    by Robert Guy Matthews

    pg A6, Politics & Economics, Tues, April 24,2007, The Wall Street Journal.

    ..."for every additional mile-per-gallon ;lost, it costs us about $10 million in {total annual} fuel costs... operating a fleet of 20,000 trucks."...

    "We are burning more fuel to move the same freight. It does cause the average person to ponder whether we are making progress or not," said Bill Graves, chief executive of American Trucking Associations,"...

    ..."Environmental groups said the public-health benefits resulting from cleaner engines far outweigh any fuel-economy"...
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    "China Seems Poised to Pass US As Top Greenhouse-Gas Emitter" by Shai Oster

    pg A6, Politics & Economics, Tues, April 24,2007, The Wall Street Journal.

    Pretty interesting, since China is a signatory to the Kyoto Protocol. :)

    Seems like Bush shoulda signed, and then raced China for the distinction! :(:)
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    I have to agree absolutely.

    Another piece of good German logic! And humor ;) Keep it going.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Good post. Sounds like the Germans are taking a more realistic approach to bio fuels than the USA. We like to jump in and sort out the problems later.

    Natural gas, CNG, LNG & LPG are all great fuels. I did not know that there was a good supply in the EU. Where does it come from?
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    Pretty interesting, since China is a signatory to the Kyoto Protocol.

    China may be a signatory, but it doesn't bind them. Both China and India have special exclusions, so Kyoto protocol gives them competitive advantage.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    Same recycled PR for the auto/oil industry's "Latest Greatest" solution to our dependence on oil - Diesel. Nothing about the "irrational exuberance" surrounding the "news". Nothing about shifting resources to mass transportation. Nothing about any down side. A truly balanced piece of journalism!

    Next!
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    Nothing about shifting resources to mass transportation.

    Here we go again.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Is there some good reason for mass transit in the suburbs? San Diego subsidizes our very fine trolley system to about $100 million per year. I see the trolley come to the end near us, drop off 2-3 passengers and PU the same. It is a sweet deal for those that live close and cannot afford a car. It is all electric and usually has 4-5 large units tied together. Cannot be cheap to run even on electric. Where is the advantage to the tax payer?

    Oh, and most of our buses run on CNG so they are cleaner than your car. I just do not see the expense being worth it. Maybe in a metro area. Not in the suburbs. Plus it is easy access for the criminal element to hit any part of town.

    Mass transit just adds to the degradation of society in my opinion. I have taken the trolley to events that parking was limited. I would never ride it at night. UNarmed that is.
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    I grew up in Europe, mass transit makes great sense. Population dense, virtually contiguous urbanization in metro areas. Perfect for mass transit.
    Now in Texas, mass transit is a joke. The distances are too large, my metro area has a population 1/10th the size of London but covers more sq.miles.

    Mass transit should be encouraged where it is feasible (urban, high density population) but it is not the solution everywhere.
  • tuco69tuco69 Member Posts: 1
    Hi and welcome from Australia.
    It would appear that Toyota South Africa spins a lot of lies like Toyota Australia does!
    Here in Australia they have recently released new versions of the 70 series Landcruisers.
    Have a look at http://lc70.toyota.com.au/toyota/vehicle/HomePage/0,4666,4104_1612,00.html
    Here they are telling the public that the 70 series wagon is a new style! In fact this body has been sold in Japan as far back as 1990 with a variety of petrol and diesel engines as the 70 series Prado from 1990 to 1996.
    There are many of these 'grey imports' in Australia - imported second hand from Japan.
    It would appear that you guys in SA are still getting the 'old' 6 cylinder petrol and Turbo diesel.
    Here in Australia we have only one choice - a 'new' V8 Turbo diesel!
    So despite what Toyota SA are telling you the new vehicles are NOT "exclusively in South Africa outside the Japanese market".
    Its 'retro charm' is because it is in fact a VERY old design!
    Still a good solid reliable vehicle - but don't be fooled into thinking it is new.
  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    Natural gas (methan/ethan) in shape of CNG and LNG is of course mainly used here for central heating and hot water supply as well as for many industrial purposes and partly generation of current,too. 25% of the demand for CNG in Germany is covered by domestic resources, the rest is imported via pipeline from Russia, Norway and The Netherlands.
    LPG (propan/butan) essentially is a byproduct of the petroleum refining process and (hard to believe!) in former times often was burned off as "waste gas". At the time being domestic oil refineries supply 100% of LPG in Germany, which appearently makes it pretty cheap. Apart from that, taxation is low and has been "freezed" until 2018.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    "Natural gas (methan/ethan) in shape of CNG and LNG is of course mainly used here for central heating and hot water supply as well as for many industrial purposes…"

    "LPG (propan/butan) essentially is a byproduct of the petroleum refining process… At the time being domestic oil refineries supply 100% of LPG in Germany, which apparently makes it pretty cheap…"

    Just adding some little bits of information, to help someone if he/she is curious about:

    The same generally applies to the southwestern corner of Europe.

    The difference being,

    we must import all natural gas used here (most from Algeria and some from northern Europe and Russia),

    LPG supply for Spain is 100% refined in Spain from 100% imported oil. LPG is cheap, as in Germany. It is used for heating and other uses, it including the fueling of some automobiles (mainly taxi cabs) as substitute of gas/diesel.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • nwngnwng Member Posts: 663
    wondering if yota is recycling AE86 in other parts of the world? :D
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The point being Bush should have out China'd and out India'd both. Hey them Yale lies are supposed to be SMART....
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    that no good dead will go unpunished!!

    "Fuel-Efficient Cars Dent State's Road Budgets" by Robert Guy Matthews, pg B1, Marketplace, TWSJ, Wed April 25, 2007.

    ..."The Federal Highway Administration estimates that by 2009 the tax receipts that make up most of the federal highway trust fund will be $ 21 BILLION (all caps, my sic) shy of what's needed just to maintain existing roads, much less build new roads or add capacity."...
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    see my response here, since this is not a diesel issue:

    The Poor Little Taxman !!!1-800-WAA-WAAA
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