Diesels in the News

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Comments

  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    The real news here (on this diesel thread) is the mandate of app 10% GREATER diesel fuel usage !!!! In addition the newer equipment is at a much higher premium. In addition upgrades to existing equipment is at a high premium also. (I will stop adding now) What would you guess is the overall plan for the GASSER side!!?? :(

    It is more than evident why cars like the TDI Jetta is what they want to KEEP off the roads!!! It actually WAS designed to run on ULSD, YEARS before ULSD was commonly available on the US markets. They do NOT want to make the per mile driven cost 25-40 % CHEAPER; they want to make per mile driven costs 25-40% MORE EXPENSIVE!!!!!!!???????

    Let's use 1 dollars as the baseline. That is .60 to .75 cents per mile driven vs 1.25 to 1.40 per mile driven!!! ????
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Um, maybe selling more PZEV Focuses and fewer F-150s?
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    No Zeeigar and no Zoup for you. :)

    One a more serious response, the market would indeed welcome diesel in the Focus and F150. Since you use Ford as an example, I have read in passing Ford will put out a diesel F150 in 2009?. They of course do sell diesel Focus' but not in the US markets.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    "they" who?

    The people complaining that they don't have enough gas tax revenue? Go read my post in the other forum.

    link title
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Correct! I have read your post and I think #2484 addresses your question? :(:)
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    200 MPG fun to drive parallel hybrid can use diesel:

    Zero to 60 in 3 seconds
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    On the same link rwo pages in:

    "It's a safe bet that our first move into hybrids will come with the M-Class, using a 3.2-litre V6 Bluetec diesel."
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Just your average sub 200,000 dollar concept car? :)
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    "Mass transit should be encouraged where it is feasible (urban, high density population) but it is not the solution everywhere."

    Thanks for the post. My response below is directed at all three posts on the subject.

    The urban sprawl is a consequence of the automobile and the indirect subsidies related to it. If the true costs of the automobile where part of the purchase price, or in the taxing of it most everyone would live in relatively dense areas where mass transit is comparatively viable. Saying mass transit is not viable in non-urban areas is like pushing a string. When we get serious about "oil dependency" the true costs of our romance with the auto (I am a worshiper!) will be "realized" and we will stop subsidizing the auto and oil industries and become rational in where we build and live. Those who want to live in non-urban areas would be free to live there if they could pay the true costs and not be dependent on urban dwellers to subsidize them.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You obviously have not ever lived in NY state. NY State feels they are subsidizing NYC. Same is true of LA and the "REST" of CA. Same is true of down town "WASH" D.C. Indeed any of the so called urban area's. So your comment is patently and wholesalely untrue.
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    Those who want to live in non-urban areas would be free to live there if they could pay the true costs and not be dependent on urban dwellers to subsidize them.

    It is exactly the opposite. It is the mass transportation systems that are heavily subsidized, not only in the US, but in Europe as well. The marvel of underground transportation, the Madrid Metro, wouldn't survive without heavy subsidies. Yes, I love to use it when I visit, but I know that it is *I* who is not paying the true cost.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Good point, I do not know of ONE that is profitable, let alone breaking even. Fare box recovery is practically a joke. B/E is more like 50 dollars R/T. So a more reasonable figure is more like 13,000 per passenger per year.

    In our T/A district current per mile build is at 1 B per mile. This is not even to mention how long each eminent domain case would be tied up in the courts.
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    As much as I follow mass transit (Dad was a bus driver when I was born, been around them my whole life), the issues of mass transit and/or sprawl would be a great addition to our new Off Topic Chatter Board.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    And just when we were getting to the point that diesel is used in mass transit buses! :)
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    Following the HOST's suggestion I am unable to post the obvious replies to the Auto Lobby PR.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    "…diesel is used in mass transit buses!"

    Yes, it is! And LPG in a number of them. (Gulp, digression from the topic :blush: Never more, I will try.)
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    The newcomer: Diesel Mini Cooper, 110 hp, 6 gears, 4.4 l per 100 km (official consume: 53.46 miles per gallon, if I am not wrong since I got it speedily calculated. CO2 emissions, 118 g per km.

    More in http://www.mini.es/es/es/new_mini_cooper_d/
    (it is written in Spanish)

    Regards,
    Jose
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 268,115
    I got 53.something, as well..

    Edmunds Price Checker
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  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    Yeah, but I am sorry the web site is not very informative.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Woo Hoo! YUP 53.45 mpg! Essentially the diesel Mini Cooper is app 450 %'s lighter than the Jetta TDI. It also has the extra gear!!! So if you routinely have one to 2 people, this has to be one of the most ideal going forward cars adapted for the USA roads!!!
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Change from "450 %'s" to #'s.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 33,786
    not to mention, if it is truly 110hp, and if it has the requisite torque of a diesel, it will most likely outrun a standard Mini. nice!

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    If you routinely have more than one or two people and if you feel attracted by a more martial design style that even Arny Schwarzenegger will keep sleepless, there is more Diesel-news:
    Yesterday I was invited to the annual spring celebration at our Daimler-Chrysler dealer´s next to my shop and I took the opportunity for an extended test-drive on the new Dodge Nitro 2.8 CRD (177 HP) with 6-speed manual. As a person who usually is not a real big friend of SUV´s I have to admit: NOT BAD!! I was surprised by the relatively crisp handling and suspension, only the brakes are (typically American) a little bit weak. The 2.8 CRD 4-cylinder is a rough guy you would meet as a worker on an oil rig, but provides pretty reasonable torque and performance. The average consumption (EC-Norm) is quoted with 8,7 liters/100 KM (approx. 26 mpg). The Nitro Diesel is offered from € 26.800,- ($ 35.000,-) on (incl. VAT) in the SR version, which sounds to me like a good bargain. Even the Chevrolet Captiva Diesel version is about € 5.000,- more expensive.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    From what you have posted, I would swag a torque rating of 304 #ft of torque!?
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    The Dodge Nitro is a chassis twin to the Jeep Liberty (Cherokee in Europe), so we had this powertrain up through last year. DaimlerChrysler surprisingly sold every Liberty 2.8 CRD they built.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    The 2.8L diesel is not unlike the one found in the American Jeep Liberty CRD. It is not the smoothest diesel nor the quietest diesel around, especially when new. I have over 19K miles on my 2005 and it is finally settling down in terms of vibration and harshness. It is still noisy in the cabin when accelerating but once you are cruising at 100 KPH, it is no noisier than any other large four-cylinder gasser. It has tons of pulling power in top gear and going from 55 MPH to 75 MPH is surprisingly quick and almost scary at times. I need to use the cruise control on my Liberty because it loves to run and will quickly get to 75 MPH or faster before you even know it.

    Chrysler (American) has never been known to have the greatest brakes on anything they have built but they have come a long way and continue to get better.
  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    Thanks for your pointer! I would have known they use the same powertrain as on the Jeep Liberty (with the 2.8 CRD actually being supplied by VM Motori S.P.A./Italy). But although it makes sense within the family I didn´t think they also share the same chassis. Compared with the Liberty, that never was striking to me among all the Japanese and Korean midsize SUV´s, the Nitro has a way more massive appearance. Like a bad accident: It´s not a beautiful view, but you can´t stop staring at it...!

    :shades:
  • KCRamKCRam Member Posts: 3,516
    The highway chat isn't even close to being on topic in a diesel discussion. Commuting and gasoline price issues can be found in the Automotive News and Views Board.

    kcram - Pickups Host
  • megasrt8megasrt8 Member Posts: 37
    "Indian automaker Mahindra & Mahindra Ltd. unveiled Thursday a line of sport utility vehicles and trucks with diesel engines that it plans to start selling in the United States in 2009". "Each is expected to get between 28mpg to 35mpg".

    Are these engines EPA approved? At $25k, I might consider them - they look pretty cool.
    image
  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    You are talking about the Mahindra Goa.
    The engine is an advanced 2.6 CRD 4-cylinder which was designed and developped in cooperation with Bosch/Germany and AVL/Austria. It provides 110 HP, a maximum torque of 270 Nm (200 lb ft) at 1900 rpm and meets the actual Euro-4 emission standards.
    Since January 2007 the Mahindra Goa is offered in Europe as a 5-door full-size SUV as well as a regular and extended cab pickup. All versions are available with 4x2 or optional 4x4 drive, but (WARNING!!) currently only with 5-speed manual transmission. I´m not sure if Mahindra is planning an auto-version for the US market.
    Have a look at the following website:
    www.prdomain.com/companies/M/Mahindra&Mahindra/newsreleases
  • megasrt8megasrt8 Member Posts: 37
    "All U.S. vehicles will feature common rail diesel engines, six-speed automatic transmissions with two or four wheel drive depending on the model and 4-year, 60,000-mile bumper-to-bumper warranties"
    Here's the link link title

    Six speed auto - that works!
    I looked around and also found out that they are calling it Green-Tec diesel and will meet all 50 state emissions standards.

    Then this would be the Scorpio, right?
    image
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    And the MSRP will be in the $20's??

    This will be a sad irony for U.S. automakers that an Indian company comes to the U.S. and sells suv's and trucks that get the mileage we all want from this class.

    Who knows if the delivered product will live up to the hype, but who wouldn't be interested in an affordable vehicle, big enough to handle all our obsessions with size and perceived off-road needs that also has decent mileage?

    Ford, GM- hello? Are you listening?
  • megasrt8megasrt8 Member Posts: 37
    Agreed. But with 150hp and 250tq, the acceleration may be lacking on highway passing situations.

    Still, they definitely are appealing with the looks, utility and fuel economy. Shame on US automakers for not getting with the program.
  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    Lucky you! This might be one of the reasons they will start selling the Scorpio in US (in Europe called "Goa") only in 2009. They probably have to set up production facilities for the auto-transmission first, which I think is not a domestic design. In addition there would be some modifications on the engine and further development necessary to make it functional with the auto. As I previously mentioned the Goa/Scorpio is exclusively available with manual transmission at the time being.
    By the way, despite the low prices I haven´t seen a single one here in Germany yet. As far as I know Mahindra has got a couple of distribution partners in Italy and France, and appearently most of the cars are sold to Eastern European countries.
  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    The sheer numbers of performance are of course not very encouraging. But where did you get the 150hp and 250tq from? For the European manual versions they quote 110hp, 200tq and some breathtaking topspeed of 142kph (88mph). Okay, not designed to be a race car. But if your numbers are correct, they are probably going to pimp up the 2.6 CRD to compensate the lack of power due to the use of auto-transmissions for the American market. Hear the bell ringing...?
  • tomcat63tomcat63 Member Posts: 82
    Hi guys, I definetely don´t want to extinguish any of your enthusiasm about the advertised Mahindra Scorpio. What is published sounds and looks good to me, and I have absolutely no personal experience with that car I could tip the scales with. For what ever reason, there have been no marketing measures, commercials or presentations of the Goa/Scorpio in Germany, which probably explains it´s absence on the roads here.
    In contrast to this we had kind of a hype 3 years ago about a revolutionary cheap Chinese diesel SUV. In 2004 during annual IAA in Frankfurt, automaker Jiangling Motor Corporation presented with loads of ballyhoo a slightly modernized 1991 Isuzu Rodeo reproduction with an updated 120hp Isuzu 2.8 CRD 4-cylinder.
    With plenty of comfort features and meeting the (at that time) actual Euro-3 emission standards it was offered for a dumping price of about € 15.000,- including VAT. A very smart Dutch businessman paid big amounts of money to obtain the exclusive distribution rights for Western Europe.
    As soon as the first Jiangling X6´s had been delivered, people had to learn that essential safety features only existed theoretically. Brake, abs- and even airbag malfunctions occured commonly. With desastrous results they finally crashtested the car at German TÜV in order to verify JMC´s claims on their safety standards. The massive SUV repeatedly collapsed like a house of cards due to poor quality of body material and welding.
    Jiangling Motor Corporation currently is not selling too many cars anymore in Europe, but they promised to improve and come back...
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    Our enthusiasm must be a symptom of our desperation.
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    Ford, GM- hello? Are you listening?

    The lights are on, but nobody’s home.
  • bristol2bristol2 Member Posts: 736
    It is such a frustration that Ford and GM, who sell so many light duty trucks, can't get it together to put a 4 or 6 cylinder diesel in those models. The only reason I don't have a truck (I am 100% weekend warrior- Home Depot, moving dirt- no 'real' work) is that the mpg is so poor.

    I truly believe that if those guys could put a 24-30mpg light diesel engine into the F-150/ Expedition/ Explorer/ Sierra/ Silverado/ Tahoe/ Suburban models they could stop worrying about Toyota for another 10 years. The American public made it pretty clear that they like big, truck-like vehicles but now we can't afford the gas. So make big truck like vehicles that get good mpg.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    While they might KNOW this, the operative behavior indicates the three monkey's point of view: see, hear, speak, (no evil). They might even know better fuel mileage, i.e., "24-30mpg light diesel engine into " will literally make those segments viable FAR into the future. Even the most economical of the economy models, Honda Civic does not get the above mileage in some cases if the Edmunds.com thread, "Honda Civic Real World MPG Numbers" are to be believed.
  • repoman1repoman1 Member Posts: 64
    The Mahindra's could be the next reincarnation of the Yugo. Is anyone going to pay near $30k for a vehicle with questionable quality and reliability or $20k for a basic 2 seat pickup truck? They will sell only if the price is much less than any comparable vehicle. For me the "right" price would have to be a max of $20k for a fully loaded, diesel SUV, and $15k for a basic diesel pickup truck
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think that is what we should expect in pricing. I bought a Kubota diesel tractor. I looked at offerings from both Kioti & Mahindra. They were decent tractors for 2/3rds the price of the Kubota. I liked the fit and finish of the Kubota. The key is the diesel engine. If Mahindra is equal to what we get from VW it should sell in the KIA price range or a bit lower.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Saved by ULSD

    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- With rising gas prices, diesel cars and SUVs are gearing up for a major American comeback after a brief appearance 25 years ago. But if all you remember are the smell and noise, you might not recognize the new leaner, cleaner versions.

    Back in the early 1980's, 80 percent of the cars Mercedes-Benz sold in the U.S. were diesel powered. General Motors sold diesel Oldsmobiles and Cadillacs.

    BMW says it will bring one or more diesel-powered cars to the U.S. by the end of 2008. In Europe, 45 percent of BMWs sold are diesels.

    Mercedes-Benz is planning to introduce diesel versions of its R-class (shown here), ML and GL SUVs to the U.S.

    Audi is expected to bring a diesel version of its Q7 SUV to the U.S.

    The reason then was obvious: Adjusted for inflation, the cost of gasoline then was about $3.15 a gallon. Buyers were looking for a more fuel-efficient way to drive.

    Diesel engines were noisy, they were slow and they puffed out nasty polluting smoke. But they used much less fuel than gasoline engines, so buyers were willing to put up with the downsides.

    As gas prices went back down, relative to other costs, and environmental regulations became stricter the tide of diesels rolled back across the Atlantic leaving only memories of clanky, foul smelling diesel cars.

    Today, while half the cars sold in Europe are diesels, diesel market share in the U.S. is about 3.5 percent and that's mostly pick-ups, according to R.L. Polk & Co.
  • larsblarsb Member Posts: 8,204
    Making it easy to locate a bio-diesel car

    To serve a growing demand for greener, cheaper transportation, a new class of used car dealers has found a niche selling biodiesel-ready autos.

    Around the country, dealerships hawking "green" diesel cars are attracting middle-class drivers motivated by high gas prices and the threat of global warming. More than a dozen of these businesses are concentrated along the West Coast, where the biodiesel subculture is breaking into the mainstream.

    Most of these clean-diesel entrepreneurs rely exclusively on the Internet for advertising, using their own Web sites and Craigslist classifieds to lure potential buyers, while a minority also showcase their wheels from streetside auto lots.

    "In 2003, I came out of the closet and became a full-blown car dealer," said Steve Ahl, a former recycled-lumber salesman who is outfitting his used diesel car lot in Ukiah, Calif., with solar panels. "This isn't the typical suede shoe used car lot operation."

    Ahl Motors TDI Cars has sold some 700 Volkswagen Turbo Direct Injection (TDI) diesels as well as Ford and Honda trucks, and currently stocks 25 models priced between $10,000 and $35,000. Ahl said most customers tell him they want to kick the fossil-fuel habit by using biodiesel.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Actually Steve Ahl is in the www.tdiclub.com community. He has held/hosted several "get to gether's" aka, GTG's. While I have not gone to Ukiah, CA. for one of his GTG's, folks that I know that have attended, not only have had a good time, but the GTG's have furthered the informational flow. He is actually a reliable vendor, from what I have heard.

    OK let's do the mantra: 500,000 miles and... BEYOND! :)
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    I was in traffic today stopped beside an older diesel pick up. His exhaust was pointing right at my drivers side window and pumping out diesel exhaust... but I never got that old bad diesel smell! Are these older diesel trucks able to use the new ULSD? Sure seemed like this one was.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    lol, whether they like it or not, they don't have much choice :-).

    Seriously, the new fuels are supposed to provide adequate lubricity (that's the key for long lasting). Guys that don't trust it will go out and buy a jug of sulfur additive.

    John
  • winter2winter2 Member Posts: 1,801
    Not a dumb question at all. The answer is "YES". The vast majority of older diesel engines will run just fine on ULSD. LSD (S500) is still available but is slowly getting harder to find, thank goodness.

    As to after market lubricity additives for diesel fuel, none of them contain sulfur compounds that I have seen. Biodiesel is a wonderful lubricity agent and as little as two percent added to dino diesel will bring lubricity levels back to pre-ULSD days. I believe either Minnesota or Missouri requires all their diesel to be B2.
  • coontie57coontie57 Member Posts: 128
    That law became affective in Minnesota in January 06 as I recall. I wish every state had it.

    When I burned it in my 99 Ford 250 diesel I could see no difference.. only 2 tanks full..
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