Diesels in the News

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  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    My guess is probably the MDX/Pilot is seen in comparison to the CR-V as HUGE.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Do they mark diesel with a green nozzle like in the states? I suppose that will be a big problem if diesel ever goes main stream here. Currently diesel is more for the enthusiast in America. Still if you have one diesel and one petrol vehicle, accidents happen. I read that the Honda diesel gave them a fighting chance to compete in the market. For me I cannot imagine buying a gas vehicle if diesel is an option. Makes no sense.
  • houdini1houdini1 Member Posts: 8,356
    Welcome dieseldoc. Why, in your opinion is the new diesels better than the older ones? Except of the cleaner fuel that is.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    This to me is another way of saying the priorities are totally akimbo (bas ackwards). It is truly an elitist way of punishing the masses. It is sort of that the old royalty way of say punishing the prince who commits a misdeed: they execute a few hundred peasants,... to teach him a lesson. I am not so sure he get the same meaning from the lesson, as those dead peasants.

    Yes it is Bass Ackwards as my uncle used to say.
    But the real truth of the matter was posted before. they do not want us getting better fuel economy they want us to consume a lot f fuel! There are more high HP cars coming out than ever before! why? Taxes! they get a lot of $$$$ from taxes on fuel. If we use less they get less money. The system is flawed but speeding tickets are also another form of tax as are many motor vehicle violations as they are designed to increase revenue not increase safety.
    Where I used to live there was an exit ramp where you had to merge and it was bad as you had to turn and look back after stopping cars would move forward them stop and you'd plow into the back of them because you'd see NO cars but they's stop again anyway. The police used to park in a driveway just past this and pump out running a stop sign tickets. When they switched it back to a yield sign which it was before accidents dropped 70%!!! but tickets dropped to zero so they kept changing it from a stop to a yield sign.
    We are basically being punished for wanting to spend les on fuel and a cleaner environment so the politicians get a lot of tax money coming in. If diesel were to really take off they'd just Up the tax on diesel raising the price and negating any benefits! :mad:
    You analogy is quite good it's the motorists who pay pay pay.
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    Hi, Thanks Last year the Honda CR-V was more popular than Land Rover and Toyota in the UK. A very big problem currently in the UK is people filling their Diesel tanks with petrol, its happening at a rate of 400 a day. Unfortunately the main dealers over here are basically cashing in on the owners misfortune.

    This was a problem in the US also. a good Brit friend of mine (a doctor) said people in the colonies have no understanding of cars they just turn the key and drive them.
    I have spent a long time teaching my wife it's FUEL not gas in our Hi-Lux.
    I can imagine how much it will hurt diesel sales if someone pumps gas into their diesel. The repair bill must be frightening!
  • altair4altair4 Member Posts: 1,469
    Okay, I keep reading that the future diesels we all crave will cost x more than the gasser model. I understand pricing on the dealership floor with demand. But I'm trying to get a handle on how much more it actually costs to manufacture a diesel engine vs. a gasser, and why.

    It seems to me that information is necessary to build a cost/benefit model for the consumer. Also, since so many people lease vehicles, do you think that will impact the acceptance of diesels? They would have a higher residual value, but does someone leasing for three years car about the longevity of a diesel engine? And will economies of scale eventually help bring down the manufacturing cost?

    I'd like to hear from DieselDoc on what he sees in the UK on the price spread. Edu-ma-cate me!
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    from Autoweek-
    More Power, Fewer Emissions
    Volkswagen is on track to deliver a 50-state-legal diesel in early 2008

    Everyone seems to be churning out improved diesel powerplants these days, and Volkswagen is no exception. Engineers are currently fine-tuning the 2.0-liter turbodiesel that will be approved for sale in all 50 states. Compared with the old 1.9-liter engine, power is up, emissions are down, and combined fuel economy is expected to remain the same.

    With an estimated 140 hp and 235 lb-ft in production trim, the 2.0-liter engine is up 30 hp and 55 lb-ft of torque from the previous 1.9-liter. Variable turbine geometry helps increase power without sacrificing efficiency, resulting in early estimates of 60 mpg on the highway. Volkswagen does not use urea injection, so owners don’t need to worry about filling the tank like that of a Bluetec system. There is a NOx trap and a particulate filter in the exhaust system to help meet Tier 2 Bin 5 emissions standards. Other upgrades include piezoelectric injectors, common-rail injection, a four-valve design and two-stage exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) system.

    The diesel will be available with a six-speed DSG or six-speed manual when it goes on sale in March 2008. The DSG is a superb fit with the diesel, and shifts are much smoother than those with the outgoing four-speed automatic.

    Expect to find the diesel under the hoods of Jettas—including the Sportwagen—from launch and potentially working its way into Tiguan and Rabbit engine bays.-
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    You might want to check this out on Edmunds.com: VW Jetta TDI (2003) there are a few anomalies: 1. there are EXACT gasser models (Jetta, New Beetle, Golf,)2. At the time, there was app a $245 premium over the 1.8T. 3. Also the 1.8T requires premium fuel. 4. This is historic data in which to start off your projections.

    Today there is up to a $4,600 resale advantage for the TDI (Jetta). My take is there was/is (and still remains)probably little additional cost to manufacture than either gasser motor. Indeed I am swagging it is probably cheaper. They charged the premium at the time because they could. The conditions at the time was TDI's were app 4% of the VW US market. So to find out the BEST price point one really had to negotiate the prices on the same trim (GL, GLS, etc) and each engine option 2.0, 1.8T. I did for the sport of it. (need to get a real life eh?) :)
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I know they build a decent tractor.

    While the Shanghai auto show was taking place half a world away, another emerging world economic power was unveiling its first-ever vehicle lineup bound for the United States.

    Mahindra Automotive will begin selling three models—2-door and 4-door pickup trucks and a midsize 7-passenger SUV—in late 2008 or early 2009. Features include a 4-cylinder common-rail diesel engine mated to a 6-speed automatic transmission, available shift-on-the-fly all-wheel drive and a 4-year/60,000-mile warranty.

    The 2-door truck will have the longest and deepest bed in its class. Pricing and specifications will be announced in a few months, but it should be priced around $20,000, with the 4-door version in the low $20s and the SUV starting in the mid-$20s.

    The dated styling may leave a lot to be desired, but consumers will appreciate the fuel mileage benefits of the diesel—ratings could be as high as 39 mpg.


    Mahindra diesel PU
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    There is another interesting thing for folks that do not know this about diesels. One can literally change the injectors (200-300 dollars, for a 4 banger) and get an instant 25 hp and 40# ft of torque GAIN with literally NO penalty in fuel mileage; unless of course they drive in THAT envelop that calls upon the extra 25 hp and 40# ft of torque (instantaneous throttle response). Doing this with a gasser is almost literally impossible.
  • roland3roland3 Member Posts: 431
    ... Doc, welcome to the board. What do you think of 30,000 psi behind those piezoceramic triggers ? Ever think of retrofitting a CR system on one of those "ol reliables". BTW, what was high injector pressure back in the day ?
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    How much gas can be mixed with fuel in a diesel car tank without damaging a current common rail injection diesel engine? I was told that up to about 10% of the total mixed volume, but I would appreciate a second (or a third, or a…) opinion.

    (This is not for mixing fuel and gas on purpose :))

    Regards,
    Jose
  • dieseldocdieseldoc Member Posts: 6
    On the older diesel systems with the traditional injection pump, adding a 10% mix was quite normal to stop the diesel from waxing in winter conditions. With the new common rail systems avoid petrol altogether, bills for rectifying failure can be as high as £3000 (not sure how that equates in the US). If the vehicle is run with 100% petrol say goodbye to the engine. (Melted pistons, burnt out valves)
  • dieseldocdieseldoc Member Posts: 6
    Hi Roland,
    Gone are the days when you could hang an injector from a pipe and crank it to see the fuel atomize, these are very dangerous pressures and could cut your hand to the bone.
    Very shortly you will see pressures exceeding 2500 BAR or as I prefer the old measurement we are talking 36000 psi, the older systems used to operate between 125 bar (1800 psi) for the IDI engine and about 200 bar (2900 psi)for the DI engine. The typical fuel injection pump would produce a pressure of around 400 bar.
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    With the new common rail systems avoid petrol altogether, bills for rectifying failure can be as high as £3000 (not sure how that equates in the US).

    This is the rate today
    3,000.00 GBP = 6,033.00 USD
    So you are pretty close to needing a new motor at that point on many cars or close enough that you might as well buy a new motor.
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    A friend of mine has the same car as me, an E60 BMW 530d. Two months ago, her car being only one-month old, she took the petrol nozzle for the diesel and started to fill the tank. Diesel nozzles are black in Spain. She is an experienced driver, anyway, but she was in a hurry and happens that the car is her first diesel.

    She realized the error almost immediately, yet about 1.5 liter (0.4 gallons) had entered into the tank. She call right to BMW Phone Service and was urged to fill up the tank with fuel (70 liters, 18.5 gallons). She was assured that no damage would be done to the engine having mixed so few petrol; yet BMW Service said too that a few more liters into the tank, and a new engine would have been needed. The car runs perfectly to date.

    So, I was very curious as how much petrol can be mixed with fuel. Following the answer of Dieseldoc, the conclusion is that we should be really cautious, my friends.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • stevecebustevecebu Member Posts: 493
    She realized the error almost immediately, yet about 1.5 liter (0.4 gallons) had entered into the tank. She call right to BMW Phone Service and was urged to fill up the tank with fuel (70 liters, 18.5 gallons). She was assured that no damage would be done to the engine having mixed so few petrol; yet BMW Service said too that a few more liters into the tank, and a new engine would have been needed. The car runs perfectly to date.

    Truthfully no matter how much of a hurry I am in and I'm almost always in a hurry. :(
    I would have had the fuel tank dropped and cleaned. She was very lucky. I'm sure this happens a lot to many people. I have to yell at the guys here to put in DIESEL not gas when they pick up the gas nozzle.
    Dropping the tank would have cost her but replacing the engine on a 530d (nice car by the way!) would have been brutal. We all make mistakes but this is a costly one and it's going to become a huge factor in the US as diesel becomes more popular.
    It will also hurt diesel sales when guys have to replace the engines in the wifes car because she pumped half a tank of gas into it instead of diesel.
    Me I think a great big Warning label that can't be missed maybe blaze orange saying DIESEL ONLY! inside the fuel filler door would be a good idea. If I can get a diesel in the US when i get back I will probably make my own. I love my wife but people can forget.
  • roland3roland3 Member Posts: 431
    ... Certainly less than a half gallon (in a *full* tank) is a non factor.
  • dieseldocdieseldoc Member Posts: 6
    The problem here is, the petrol removes the lubricating properties from the diesel and causes the high pressure pump to break up causing metal contamination throughout the system requiring a full system change. A story I can tell you about occurred a few years ago when CR systems were new to everyone. A gentleman arrived at my company and said he had filled his KIA with 4 gallons of petrol, the garage he filled up from was about 150 yards from where I work. It was a friday evening and I told him we would drain the system in the morning and let him know what our findings are.
    We drained the complete system, when we removed the injectors we discovered they were seized due to the petrol and the high temperatures. Anyway we fitted a replacement fuel filter and four new injectors, the engine sounded absolutely fine. Three weeks later I had a call from the local KIA dealer who asked me to call in to his workshops as he had something of interest to show me.
    The said KIA had broken down and on investigation, the engine was discovered to have filled itself with diesel causing the pistons to hydraulic literally destroying the engine. After removing the High pressure pump I found the drive shaft seal had perished and the rubber had become very soft, this was obviously due to the petrol contamination the three weeks previous, a very expensive lesson learned.
  • roland3roland3 Member Posts: 431
    ...Doc, so the fuel did not get past the injectors, must have went down in the pan, overfilled and then up past the rings. You are talking a heck of a bunch more percentage than point four gallon.
  • dieseldocdieseldoc Member Posts: 6
    Yes, but what I was demonstrating was that although you may think you have got away with putting anything over 50%petrol mix in the system, underlying damage can occur to the fuel pump seals that may not show up till later, of course if you were simply talking point four of a gallon I would agree so long as you diluted this with diesel you should be OK
  • jlbljlbl Member Posts: 1,333
    All right, agreed. 0.4 gallon in a 18.5 gallon tank should be okay, but to go up from there is indeed steeply dangerous.

    Thank you for the discussion. I can reassure my friend that BMW Service was correct. I let you know if my friend's car engine breaks down in the future because of that gas filled-in a few time ago.

    Regards,
    Jose
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    Perhaps I've missed a simple, logical explanation, but why is VW planning to sell in the US only the models below the Passat with the new diesel engine?

    http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070706/FREE/70705003/1024/LATESTNEWS
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/FVDP/Preview/styleId=100849240
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Your conclusion was not based on contents of either article.
    The Passat and the Touareg and possibly the Phaeton will be sold with diesel in the US and Canada. They will not be sold with the 2.0 TDI. The diesel engines that will be in the larger VW's will require urea.
    Phaeton's return to the US is still tentative.
    Passat will NOT be sold with diesel in 2008 model year.
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    Your conclusion was not based on contents of either article.

    Okay, I quote:

    the automaker says the new technology is currently being tested for its models below the Passat

    and this:

    Expect to find the diesel under the hoods of Jettas—including the Sportwagen—from launch and potentially working its way into Tiguan and Rabbit engine bays.

    In the first one it explicitly states "models below the Passat", in the other it excludes the Passat by ommission. So what exactly did I miss?

    Phaeton's return to the US is still tentative.

    Aha. I have no interest in Phaeton, but I will keep that in mind.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    You missed the point that the models larger than Jetta will not use the same technology - larger models will use urea addition - they will not rely on catalyst alone which the Jetta, Rabbit, New Beetle, and Tiguan will.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    He failed to give VW the credit they are due for bringing clean burning diesel cars to the USA.
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    You missed the point that the models larger than Jetta will not use the same technology - larger models will use urea addition - they will not rely on catalyst alone which the Jetta, Rabbit, New Beetle, and Tiguan will.

    I couldn't have missed something that was in neither article. Please show me the quote from either article that explicitly states Passat will be sold with a diesel engine with urea addition. You may know that, but it was not in the articles.
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    I couldn't have missed something that was in neither article. Please show me the quote from either article that explicitly states Passat will be sold with a diesel engine with urea addition. You may know that, but it was not in the articles.

    The articles NEVER said the Passat would not be sold with diesel. The articles were NOT about the Passat.
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    Better check under the bed. ;)
  • hypnosis44hypnosis44 Member Posts: 483
    "For me I cannot imagine buying a gas vehicle if diesel is an option. Makes no sense."

    This is at least amusing. There is nothing sensible about the car culture. It is based in self indulgence and amazing waste. Picking diesel over gas as an improved and sensible way of killing ourselves speaks volumes to our collective mental state.
  • hwyhobohwyhobo Member Posts: 265
    The articles NEVER said the Passat would not be sold with diesel. The articles were NOT about the Passat.

    Fer crying out loud, there are limits to reading without understanding. I said "the new diesel". Please kindly re-read my original post and the articles quotes. They specifically state that the Passat will not be sold in the US with the new diesel engine.

    If you cannot be helpful, but instead you feel the irrestible urge to pick on someone, at least READ the posts first.

    And next time kindly spare me your helpfulness.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    But I drive a Honda!!
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    It is interesting that you cannot buy the California camper TDI in CA. Maybe they are saying you can buy it in AZ or KY and take a vacation to California. It is a really upgraded Vanagan with a diesel powerplant that gets 30 MPG. It includes two bed and the kitchen sink. Sell that home in the burbs and live the life of a Gypsy. Plus it has 4Motion AWD for those times off the beaten path.

    VW CA Camper TDI

    I did see one on our highway. It was licensed from Mexico.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    What really makes little sense is paying over MSRP for a used vehicle. People do it to get their hands on a solid diesel car or SUV. I have not priced this Mercedes out new. I imagine they are asking somewhat over what it sold for new. I know of several dealers buying very low mileage VW TDIs and Mercedes diesels and making a good profit on them here in So California. Your concern for the air we breath has little or no merit. If the authorities were concerned there are many sources of pollution that far exceed the dirtiest cars on the road. And those cars are not diesels.

    This dealer has two on the lot today. He usually has a VW TDI or two. Said they are impossible to keep more than a few days. I believe it even at the high price he is asking.

    Used MB diesel in San Diego
  • moparbadmoparbad Member Posts: 3,870
    Oh, you meant "the new diesel engine".

    I said "the new diesel". Please kindly re-read my original post and the articles quotes. They specifically state that the Passat will not be sold in the US with the new diesel engine.

    Not the "all-new V6 diesel".

    quote-
    Late in 2008 or early in calendar-year 2009, VW will relaunch its "bread-and-butter" Jetta sedan, followed by a new Passat. In the process, the updated versions will have their prices cut by thousands of dollars. Today's Passat covers a range between $24,000 and $30,000, noted Hallmark, but will drop to $19,000 to $25,000 - about where the smaller Jetta sits on the "price ladder" today. The next Jetta will drop down by a similar amount.
    The automaker is also counting on rising fuel prices to work in its favor. It has seen demand for its diesel-powered models soar in recent years. Despite a stiff premium, it is sold out of Jetta diesels - and without having to offer customers the incentives ladled onto the gasoline-powered sedan.
    Next year, all-new in-line four and V-6 diesels will join the lineup. They'll boast new technology able to meet the latest emissions standards. And that, in turn, will allow VW to again sell diesels in California and four Northeast states that copy its unique and tougher pollution standards.
    -end
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    The end of June I sent a letter to American Honda Motor Co. to ask about diesels planned for the US. Below is part of the body of the letter I sent.

    Rumors of a diesel Accord and CRV coming to the US have been floating about, so I come to you in hopes you will validate these dreams.
    Does Honda Motor Company plan to introduce in the US the Accord and CRV with a diesel engine in the 2009 model year?
    Does Honda Motor Company plan to introduce any other diesel powered vehicles in the US in the 2009 or 2010 model years?

    Below is the meat of the response I received today, 7/9/07:

    Unfortunately we are unable to confirm or deny whether the diesel version of the Accord or CR-V will be available here in the United States. All information on our upcoming vehicles will be released to the public in October; just after the car show.

    Oh so politically non committal.

    This might be common knowledge, but thought I would share.
  • blufz1blufz1 Member Posts: 2,045
    The answers to your questions are yes and yes.
  • roland3roland3 Member Posts: 431
    ... Altair, it used to be that Diesel crank, rods, pistons, pins, blocks were stronger and heavier. Still true; however it appears that the pulse type common rail injection is easier on parts because a small lead pulse gets the fire started without all that CLATTER.
    ... Also same for the driveline but with the advent of hot little turbo fours it seems that the drivlines are about the same in many models.
    ... As proof of this theory of mine there are quite a few manufacturers using aluminium blocks and or heads in their Diesel engines today, where as, years ago use of the lightweight metal was extremely rare in this application.
    ... Many USA pickup truck buyers used to say well I can buy quite a bit of gas with that four thousand I don't have to pay when I buy this gas burner. Well, that talk is just about gone, but I can't give you difinitive numbers($).
  • jkinzeljkinzel Member Posts: 735
    Roland, I have to agree with you about the “why” part of US diesel cost. If MB and VW can put a diesel in a car for less than $1500, then the $4,000 to $6,000 the US auto makers are claiming it will add to the price of a car is pure BS.
    I have no figures either, but I’m not believing the figures I have read.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    I think the price premium for the diesel trucks is more demand than actual cost to produce. I know my brother in law wanted a 3/4 ton Dodge Cummins. He settled for the Hemi at $7000 less. Figured his car hauling trailer would pull fine behind the gas rig. You can buy a lot of gas for $7000.

    PS
    My 2005 Passat TDI was only a $200 MSRP hit over the small gas engine and less than the V6 engine.
  • ruking1ruking1 Member Posts: 19,826
    Yes I think the AM oem's went the way Toyota did with the Prius. (or was it really Toyota following the LEAD of the AM oems with the 3/4 ton diesels)

    On the other hand, VW really made it close to seamless with a more modest premium. (200 vs 7,000) A $200 or so premium makes it almost a no brainer! This is especially true as we tend to spend WAY more on stuff that is unrelated to the advantages the diesel model provides.

    An easy "for example" When we bought a 2004 Honda Civic VP for a daily commpute. They wanted 1200 more for cruise control and power door lockS. We would use cruise control 0% of the time for the majority of the time and mileage. The daily commute is 1 person, so we have almost ZERO need to open the other three doors.

    I truly wish there was a 200 dollar diesel option on this Civic! :) 25% fuel advantage works almost 24/7 (among others).
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    I think the price premium for the diesel trucks is more demand than actual cost to produce.

    I agree for the most part, and would include poor production logistics in the equation... inefficient added costs passed on directly to the consumer.

    TagMan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    Man, what I wouldn't do for a small diesel SUV right about now. It seems I'm going to be doing some additional driving over the next year, and I would LOVE to get my hands on that new Mercedes GLK diesel that's going to come out. The wait is killing me! I'd also take a diesel CR-V or possibly a diesel Tiguan in a heartbeat.

    TagMan
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    The diesel Tiguan has me intrigued. That looks like a decent size. It should be in VW showrooms for the 2008 model year. It will be a hot seller with that 2.0L TDI and DSG transmission.

    Tiguan
  • tagmantagman Member Posts: 8,441
    The diesel Tiguan has me intrigued. That looks like a decent size. It should be in VW showrooms for the 2008 model year. It will be a hot seller with that 2.0L TDI and DSG transmission.

    gagrice - since you are intrigued by the Tiguan, here's the very latest official scoop... I'll post you some official pics and links to more pics and lots of info:

    image

    image

    volkswagen-tiguan-suv

    vw-tiguan-official-photos-press

    :)

    TagMan
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Both good articles. This is a really great innovation for off roading.

    Offroad navigation. A further innovation of the RNS 510 is a specially developed offroad navigation system. This mode makes it possible to record up to 500 route points during a journey, even in non-digitized areas. This allows the driver to find his or her way back from offroad adventures into any desert or steppe. In edit mode, the driver can modify the route as desired. A glance at the map in the RNS 510 display offers the required orientation

    You can mark on maps good fishing spots. Prospecting points. This is a NAV worth having in a vehicle. I think I am ready for a Tiguan. Do you know the specs yet as far as measurements?
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    VW Please bring these to the USA for sale. V10 TDI not needed here.

    June 4, 2007
    AUBURN HILLS, Mich. – A pair of Volkswagen Race Touareg 2 vehicles, from the automaker’s acclaimed Dakar Rally Factory Team, claimed two top-20 finishes at the 39th Annual Tecate SCORE Baja 500 in Ensenada, Mexico.

    The Race Touaregs were likely helped by the efficiency of the 2.5 L in-line five-cylinder TDI engine, as they were the only two vehicles that did not have to stop to refuel during the entire race. Additionally, they suffered no mechanical problems; combined, the two vehicles only made three pit stops along the course, to replace a spare tire that had fallen off and for both vehicles to receive fresh tires.

    "The fact is that we achieved this success with a diesel engine that is relatively quiet but develops incredible torque,” said Miller. “We participated not having to refuel even once, while the U.S. vehicles had to stop for fuel two or even three times. This is a testament to how advanced and fuel efficient the TDI technology truly is.”


    No wannabe SUVs in this race.
  • gagricegagrice Member Posts: 31,450
    Not a Toyota in the bunch. Just won't take the abuse I guess. Honda is well represented in ATV & motorcycles.

    Top twenty finishers in the race. The VWs were racing against some big time racing iron. Not for lightweight wienie trucks.

    1. Larry Ragland, Cave Creek, Ariz./Brian Collins, Las Vegas, Chevy Silverado, 9 hours, 10 minutes, 58 seconds (46.20miles per hour) (SCORE Trophy-Truck)
    2. Robby Gordon, Mooresville, N.C., Chevy CK1500, 9:14:55 (45.87mph) (SCORE Trophy-Truck)
    3. B.J. Baldwin, Las Vegas, Chevy Silverado, 9:17:32 (45.65mph) (SCORE Trophy-Truck)
    4. Mark Post, Laguna Beach, Calif./Rob MacCachren, Las Vegas, Ford F-150, 9:25:30 (45.01mph) (SCORE Trophy-Truck)
    5. Josh Baldwin, Newport Beach, Calif., Ford F-150, 9:36:17 (44.17mph) (SCORE Trophy-Truck)
    6. David Scaroni/Matt Scaroni, Heber, Calif., Ford F-150, 9:47:50 (43.30mph) (SCORE Trophy-Truck)
    7. Garron Cadiente, Mesa, Ariz., Ford F-150, 9:48:40 (43.24mph) (SCORE Trophy-Truck)
    8. Todd Wyllie, New River, Ariz., Chevy C1500, 9:55:34 (42.74mph) (SCORE Trophy-Truck)
    9. Gus Vildosola/Gus Vildosola Jr., Mexicali, Mexico, Ford F-150, 9:58:00 (42.56mph) (SCORE Trophy)
    10. B.J. Richardson/John Gaughan, Las Vegas, Bunderson-Chevy, 9:59:30 (42.46mph) (Class 1)
    11. Mark Miller, Carefree, Ariz., VW Touareg, 10:00:38 (42.38mph) (SCORE Int’l Truck)
    12. Chuck Hovey, Escondido, Calif., Jimco-Chevy, 10:05:27 (42.04mph) (Class 1)
    13. Gary Weyhrich/Mark Weyhrich, Troutdale, Ore., Jimco-Chevy, 10:05:32 (42.03mph) (Class 1)
    14. Alan Pflueger, Honolulu/Ricky Johnson, Encinitas, Calif., Chevy Silverado, 10:06:29 (41.97mph) (SCORE Trophy-Truck)
    15. Darren Hardesty, Ramona, Calif./Mark Randazzo, Poway, Calif., AlumiCraft-VW, 10:06:50 (41.94mph) (Class 1)
    16. Armin Schwarz, Austria/Matthias Kahle, Germany, Jimco-BMW, 10:15:30 (41.25mph) (Class 1)
    17. Luis Ramirez Jr., Cabo San Lucas, Mexico/Jim Mihal, La Paz, Mexico, Porter-Chevy, 10:16:15 (41.30mph) (Class 1)
    18. Giniel De Villers, South Africa, VW Touareg, 10:18:44 (41.14mph) (SCORE Int’l Truck)
    19. Bill Gasper, Chino Hills, Calif./Dave Gasper, Goleta, Calif., Porter-Chevy, 10:21:05 (40.98mph) (Class 1)
    20. Max Thieriot/Cam Theriot, Petaluma, Calif./Glenn Harris, Camarillo, Calif., RPS-Chevy, 10:27:24 (40.57mph) (Class 1)


    Race results
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