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Comments
I have to confess we have a strong tendency to think before we act (in opposition to some of your fellow citiziens, e.g. George Walker B.), but in most cases this makes things pretty functional...
National characteristics are way over-rated as judgments of character as are judgments of the many based on the actions of a few.
Tomcat- the real issue over here with Adblue is that anything that requires the owner to take action is not acceptable as a solution to the California emissions requirements. Regardless of whether it's easy or hard to manage, if it needs to be an input (other than the energy essential to make the car go forward), it does not meet US emissions regulations in all 50 states. Which begs the question why MB is pursuing this as a solution.
I am still a little fuzzy on whether if it is 100% dealer managed it meets the requirements.
Nevertheless, what you say about "the owner taking action is not acceptable as a solution to the California emissions requirements" really strikes me.
In other words that means government officially doesn´t trust their people to be willing and/or able to keep that stuff in order? I´m sorry, but if so, they literally treat you like children to my opinion.
I´ve been to the States a couple of times and met plenty of guys who intentionally manipulated their (gasser) exhaust system tearing off catalysts and stuff in order to get more power. When smog-test was about to be passed, everything was replaced - to be restored in the garage one hour later. All their cars were CA emissions regs legal...
You want to cheat them? They can´t do anything about it, they know it and aren´t bothered.
If you (unintentionally) neglect your car and constantly ignore the AdBlue gauge, the catalyst system will be heavily damaged after a while. You´ll fall out being smog-tested at the latest and would have to face a $ 2,000 bill to get it fixed. I think that´s reason enough to keep an eye on things!
I´m sure that prior to offering their cars MB exactly checked out if Bluetec/AdBlue technology is acceptable to CA emissions requirements. Since we all know it´s also very difficult to rely and be dependant on "holy" dealership, they could concessionally install some kind of safety switch to cut down the engine when you run out of AdBlue.
Advanced particulate filter provides lasting durability and high-performance"
http://www.corning.com/environmentaltechnologies/media-center/press-releases/2006042701.aspx
Maintenance and periodic inspection of a vehicle is part of owner responsibility.
And I’m guessing that it is this type of marketing that has given many drivers the illusion that they need not look under the hood. I check both my cars weekly or bi-weekly depending on use.
I totally agree. Here in Germany this is even quite a big part of driving school education.
When you originally mentioned the extra step, I had NO idea you were comparing it to a clean-burning diesel that did not include urea injection. I have yet to see one for sale here, so I really didn't understand we were comparing something unavailable to us. I thought you were stating that people won't go for bluetec over gassers because of this extra step. Obviously, that was the source of confusion. Well, that and the fact that you started quoting diesel jetta vs gasser jetta economy numbers. I have no idea where THAT came from in the context of urea injection vs non-urea injection diesels.
So, I guess we are on the same page now.(?) I am in full support of bluetec until a comparable vehicle comes along that doesn't require the extra step ... whenever that may be.
p.s. i was not talking about the E320 gasser, since such a vehicle is no longer built. I was comparing the E350 on premium gas to the E320 BLUETEC DIESEL. Since, as of today in my area, diesel costs the same as regular gas, the e320 gets 35% better mileage AND uses cheaper fuel. So its a win-win.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Also I understand that there wlil be some "Bluetec" diesels that will NOT use adblue - instead they use "selective catalyst reduction", a way of burning the soot-particles inside the exhaust system. 2006/07 VW V10 TDI is the first of those, I think. I understand that 08 Jetta TDI will be another.
Amen. Very balanced perspective. It's not a fatal flaw. It's a slightly inconvenient consideration at its worst, and much too much has been made of it.
The model vehicle will still be the primary consideration when purchasing a car, and then the secondary items will matter. In the near future if a buyer truly likes and chooses, for example, a Mercedes GL diesel and it requires AdBlue, there is little chance that the AdBlue would make him walk away from that model vehicle.
Would it be preferable to not have ANY services and fluid requirements on our cars?... Sure! I agree with that logic and reality. But I'll bet that maintaining and checking tire pressure is a much bigger pain in the butt than pouring a little solution in a reservoir, which the dealer will offer to do anyway.
Heck, Honda vehicles need their tires checked just like all the others.
BTW, I'm a German car fan in a big way. I'm driving my third Porsche and have owned numerous Mercedes Benz. But I've also owned Honda and Acura vehicles and I really like them a lot. So I'm not on one side of the fence or the other between German cars and Honda cars. But, the real truth is, when it comes down to it, the amount of attention most cars require is pretty darned similar. (although I sure do spend more time shining up the Porsche now and then.
TagMan
quote-
After a checkered past and a hit-or-miss sales record partially hampered by strict tail-pipe emission regulations, diesel-powered vehicles may soon gain popularity in the U.S. market.
Visiting diesels, the BMW 535d and Chrysler 300C CRD.
A raft of diesel passenger cars, which often improve fuel economy over similar gas-sipping engines by as much as 30%, will begin hitting U.S. showrooms in 2008. New emissions-reducing technologies are intended to make them eligible for sale in all 50 states including the country's largest car market, California.
-end
Volkswagen confirms that the Jetta sedan will be the first of the company's vehicles to get its new clean diesel engine in 2008.
The clean-diesel Jetta TDI bows in the fourth quarter of this year. Production will begin in January of 2008 and will go on sale by late spring. The new diesel will be 50-state compliant and will be badged as a TDI.
The engine will be a common-rail 2.0-liter diesel four with 140 horsepower and 235 pound-feet of torque. The engine will use an oxygen after-treatment system and a particulate filter to meet 50-state diesel emission requirements. VW says the new engine's fuel economy and NVH will be significantly improved over the former 1.9-liter diesel engine.
Pricing hasn't been announced but the diesel will be pricier than the gas-engined Jetta. Diesel Jetta sedans and SportWagens will hit California and New England first when they arrive in showrooms by March.
Why should the emissions trouble makers in CA and New England get any diesels at all, let alone first?
I for one am glad VW has gotten away from the PD model! Too many imbedded land mines for my .02 cents.
I also understand the 2006 (TDI) model year quality is head and shoulders above previous years. So hopefully going forward things go and get better.
But, if it is 3% of the fuel mixture, then many drivers will need nearly 1/2 gallon per week.. An 8 gallon tank (which is huge, IMO) would have to be filled every 4 months or less...
If they have a nozzle on the diesel pump to do this, no problem for me.. but most people will balk. Currently, many car makers have gone to 10K, 15K, or even 20K service intervals.. Our car goes in about once per year for service.
It may not be a big deal to you, but if diesels are to make a headway in the USA, then they need to be user-friendly.
How many Prius do you think they would sell, if you had to plug them in every night?
regards,
kyfdx
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good question. But considering how much chatter I hear and read about the Chevy Volt, I'd have to guess quite a few. (that is a plug-in, ain't it?? i kinda subconsciously blocked all that info for some reason.)
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Video about Honda diesel engine. *****High Speed Internet users only*****
quote-Bonawitz would not confirm - but he also declined to deny - rumors that a diesel Accord will come to the U.S. , most likely by the end of the decade. A Civic "oil burner" will come first, it's been reported.-end
I'm scratching my head after reading this and thinking that this is incorrect. :confuse:
TagMan
Good info, but I'm sure many improvements and modifications have been made since the video was produced in June 2003.
Currently you can get VW TDI. Mercedes has 4 models available, E320 CDI, ML320 CDI, GL320 CDI and the R320 CDI. Jeep is selling the Grand Cherokee limited with the Mercedes diesel.
VW will have 50 state non-adblue diesels on the market late this year. Honda will have the same sometime in 2008.
However, there is a bit of an anamoly in that by default, the so called "50 state" moniker existed prior to 2005. So in that sense the 50 state moniker is a straw man (paper tiger, etc.). I offer up as an example, a 2003 VW TDI bought new in CA. and presumably able to be bought in all 50 states and the US territories.
Not to in anyway block the wind in your sails, may I also restate the absolutely HUGE regulatory event; the final (go ahead) implementation of ULSD. (15 ppm or less) The real 50 state phase in will happen in YEARS (going forward). So in that sense ULSD/LSD will remain a local phenomenon. In my humble opinion this realization and implementation was at THE very least 30-35 years (to my driving year knowledge) LATE in coming!!! Indeed the resultant (45/50 state distinctions) actions were almost a natural consequence of this HUGE mistake 30-35 years ago. Indeed it goes back way further in that LEAD (the additive in leaded regular) was known far in advance of the legislation mandating the switch (in the early 1970's to UN leaded fuel to be a unnecessary and more aggressively destructive thing (over UN leaded fuel).
TagMan
That is why the title was "old news".
Q for blufz - What diesel engine will Honda offer in the Ridgeline? Honda has two four cylinder diesels that could be offered for 2009, however, there does not seem to be a six cylinder diesel that is even remotely close to production.
Here's the strange twist on all of that... In California, ULSD is already 100% mandatory at the retail level. In other words, all diesel fuel sold in this state must already be ULSD, unlike the rest of the nation which won't by law have to retail 100% ULSD for a few more years.
However, the brighter news is that the national market situation will naturally begin to ramp up over the next years and improve the availability of ULSD before the final deadline. It won't be like an on/off switch the day of the deadline.
But, consider that California is the state that has mandated the 100% ULSD requirement, yet at the same time has made it harder to sell the actual cars that require the ULSD. Go figure.
TagMan
I'll go on record as guessing ZERO as the displacement of the V6 Honda diesel in 2008 for 09 model year. It is not going to happen, at least not in 2008!
2.2L on the diesel for the Accord.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but was not the deadline for ULSD October 15th 2006?