jimlockey says, "The hybrid might be ok, but I haven't forgot who bombed us on a Sunday morning."
OK, I'm going to assume that was not a joke. If it was a joke, you can stop reading right now.
But if not.........>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You can't honestly mean you are holding a WWII grudge against Japan's current population, very few of whom were even BORN in 1941, can you?
Dude, that was 66 years ago.
None of the current Japanese carmakers are run or financed by any of Emperor Hirohito's clan.
So, if you are not holding a grudge against an individual person, against whom is your grudge? A whole country? A race of people?
P.S. Saturn has two hybrids which will carry 5 adults and which get decent mileage for vehicles of that size, and Ford has one also. Better (you know, just for your own personal peace of mind) check the employee roster of Saturn and Ford and make sure there are no Japanese employees, though.
I liked Boerne. And the local Chrysler dealer is exceptional. He fixed my Mercedes Sprinter under warranty. He took us right in and had it done in less than 48 hours. Great dealership!!!
And yes the air was very nice in the Hill Country of TX.
The "myth of choice" is one that persists as part of a complex human denial mechanism.
Some of us need to challenge this poor soul. I was born in a dirty steel CITY Erie, PA. I was moved to Los Angeles at 6 months. I was able to get out of the CITY that some considered in the 1960s & 1970s as THE most polluted in the USA. We were as dirt poor as anyone living in the city. Taking free canned food from kind folks in the Church. If we got out. You or anyone else that wants to can get out.
There are plenty of open spaces all around you that have clean air. You have CHOSEN to stay in the most polluted city in California. Hop on a bus and get off where the air is clear. There are more places with good air than bad in this big country of ours. It is still YOUR CHOICE as to where you settle down. No myth just FACT. Unless you are in Prison in San Bernardino. If that is the case breath deep......
Send in the diesels, we are ready to save some fossil fuel.
I'm convinced that diesel emissions standards are too strict for the time period they are enacted. Delaying the implementation by 5 years would have allowed the automakers to develop technology to meet the requirements in a more effective manner.
... ALL the engineers in ALL the Diesel engine builder manufacturers REALIZE that the only reg needing change is a minor reduction of the NOx specs. Golden parachute, golf playing types and bureaucratic self agrandizers should not be allowed to comment.
hypno44, you are ignoring the beam in your own eye (international shipping in LA ports) just to concentrate on the mote in mine (TDI in which I drive to Cali every summer!) Anyway, I look forward to more diesel news here so I can evaluate my next round of diesel choices for the next phase of my life... I expect to keep TDI VWs in my family-fleet for many years, and will be evaluating both gasser hybrids and diesels for future new-vehicle purchases. Honda accord diesel will get a serious look from me. I hope the offer it with a standard-trans and maxxed with options. I think I've finally caved-in to the idea to accepting a NAV-system in my next vehicle, even at extra cost.
I need your help deciding what California legal diesel powered vehicle I should purchase for use in CA.
Here are my top choices-
1. Container ship powered by Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C to operate from Port of LA to other CA ports.
2. GE AC6000CW Diesel Locomotive - 16-cylinder model HDL 4-stroke GE diesel engine provides 6,000 hp. Could be a lot of fun on the rails!
3. Kenworth C500 w/ Caterpillar C15 engine and dump box - Why not, could handle all my hauling needs to and from Home Depot!
The above are all vehicles that operate within CARB emissions regulations while at the same time the cleanest diesel vehicles in the world are prohibited. Makes all the sense in the world to me! :P Since I'm an idiot that believes in CARB 100% I've decided to sell my VW Tdi clean diesel (Clean diesel's are BAAAAD, CARB is against them) and purchase a diesel that burns dirty off-road diesel.
If I'm lucky I can then get a share of the BILLION dollars of taxpayer money that CA is distributing to clean up diesel emissions. You can breate easier
Or, perhaps I should just move to one of the many countries in Europe with over 50% of passenger vehicles as diesels and people still manage to have a longer life expectancy than in the US. If only Europeans would adopt CARB standards they would probably live FOREVER! :P
... CARB, says the old Diesels in the port bound ships are equivalent to tens of thousands of cars. I wish them well in their quest to clean them up; however CARB will expect more praise, adoration, and glorification from the MTBE laced Kool-Aid drinkers and will continue to ignore the thirty to sixty percent increase in GHG caused by their too strict NOx regs, for SMALL, car, Diesels.
You seem to do fine with your anti diesel diatribe. You are blaming the wrong people. Go after the legislators that look the other way from the big polluters in the state.
If you are so sure of your position, why not post some studies that compare vehicles that are available with both gas and diesel engines. With the diesel vehicle burning the mandated ULSD. I think you will find that overall the diesel is the better choice for fuel. Can you even find a study where CARB has tested a modern diesel car such as the VW TDI with the diesel fuel mandated in CA? CARB condemned them without testing from all I can find. All the data on their website is old, old, old!
... I am not sure that CARB has to test, any one particular vehicle. The manufacturers will usually not attempt to have a car accepted when they know a model can't pass the specs. (usually NOx). The spec that should be balanced with NOx is grams of carbon per kilometer (does not matter if it is city blocks or miles). In comparable HP to HP specs (that I have looked at so far) the Diesels are emitting about 25 percent less carbon, and I have not found an exact apples to apples because for a similar horsepower the Diesel always has quite a bit more torque. ... CARB will probably say that is good thing (more carbon) because now ships can pass through the Northwest passage in summer; rather than admit that they have made a mistake.
If you are so sure of your position, why not post some studies that compare vehicles
You're assuming that Hypno44 has a position.
Reading back through the posts, I am not sure there is really a definable Hypno44 position. Seems like a general view that we should only use public transport and that we're all doomed anyway (which surely suggests we should all try and get a Porsche and go out in style).
I certainly am interested in hearing alternative views, but the vague generalities just seem like a waste of time.
Reading back through the posts, I am not sure there is really a definable Hypno44 position. Seems like a general view that we should only use public transport
His posts are mostly just thinly-veiled political diatribes and have little to do with diesel vs. gasoline or anything like that. It's individualism vs. collectivism. That's why it would be nice to have an "ignore" button here, like on some other forums to eliminate what I consider to be little more than spam.
You have to remember this fellow is living in THE WORST CITY FOR SMOG on the planet. That has to do something to the little gray cells. I don't believe riding a bus will help. I think he needs to buy a Jetta TDI and head out of that smog trap and look for clean air. Maybe Albuquerque or Billings Montana...
Just read an article from the UK that claims biofuels of all types from corn or rapeseed are causing more Green House Gas than good old fossil fuel. I think maybe ULSD is the way to go. When we start getting a steady supply of diesel from natural gas we will be doing even better. There could be 500 years worth of natural gas reserves that are known. I only worry about the next 100 years.
biofuels of all types from corn or rapeseed are causing more Green House Gas than good old fossil fuel. I think maybe ULSD is the way to go.
The issue is rising some discussion here in Spain, too. Also because some claims that biofuel is behind current increments in the price of bread and milk, the latter due to the price of the cow food.
My my what a lot of pained reactions. Why did you avoid the issue I raised which was about another poster saying that someone should not be allowed to speak because they were not supporting Diesel?
More pain at a simple truth - and it took a bunch of you to respond. I always find that amazing.
So you escaped one city as a 6mo old to go to another city - hmmm. I guess we should crank up the good judgment award on that one. Then you suggest that all the rest of the people escape to another myth, that of "the wide open spaces" where they will, um, all now be - hmmm. Maybe a double award is due.
Why did you avoid the issue I raised which was about another poster saying that someone should not be allowed to speak because they were not supporting Diesel?
Probably because that issue would be better handled by a host.
It's not that other posters have a hard time with you because you don't support diesel, I don't remember many instances of you arguing specifically against diesel, just that you seem to think that all private transport is wrong.
Since all private transport is intrinsically wrong to you, it seems to make any debate pointless. Frankly you just put out a lot of very general opinions that you don't usually support with facts. It's impossible for any other poster to feel that there is a serious intent on your part to take part in a discussion, just a wish to posture.
Clearly not everyone lives in cities, clearly private transport is not going away within our lifetimes (so why not find the least bad solution?), clearly anyone can move from a polluted city to a less polluted city or entirely out of the city. It is a personal choice and nothing you have posted supports the (odd) assertion that living outside the city is a 'myth'. My wife's family is certainly imaginary and certainly lives in the country. Their closest neighbor is 10 miles away, his water comes from a well, his power comes from the local co-op. It's not rocket science and it's not particularly mythic, it's just how a certain percentage of the country's population chooses to live.
... I want to see some more exhaust gas analysis and maybe a chemical molecule for molecule breakdown on this. I know that when comparing with a gas engine the improvement in carbon emissions run almost exactly with the better bsfc (econ). The bio-fuels don't have that much difference in bsfc, (brake specific fuel consumption), as compared to good ol number two fuel oil.
..."I sure as heck would not want to drive ANY car for 500,000 plus miles." ...
The most mileage I have gone were 250,000 miles each in a 70 VW Beetle and 87 Toyota Landcruiser.
As it applies to diesel, the Jetta TDI is a baby going on 99,000 miles. I just got back from a 2,000 mile N/S trip with an average of 52 mpg. I did a fair amount of driving in downtown Portland OR, Vancouver, BC. Both bigger cities have large diesel populations. Relatively both seem to have very clean air.
I didn't have to idle too long at either border crossing. (app 15-20 min per side)
... One of the comments about this finding is that it is quite shocking. I agree, if true, we should still consider the advantages of using "waste" products in the big picture of GHG. Gas type engines, with the exception of methane, are not much of a factor here.
Using waste cooking oil as biodiesel is a real plus. I think that science is looking at the overall picture being presented by growing massive crops as an alternative to fossil fuel. With current processes and especially the fertilizers that are used it brings up a big question mark. IS growing corn, rapeseed, palm trees or sugar cane for fuel environmentally sound.
quote- Volkswagen AG is considering building diesel engines somewhere in North America as part of its effort to expand sales in theUnited States, Volkswagen of America's new chief executive said as the company rolled out its latest diesel promotion for reporters. Stefan Jacoby, chief executive officer of Volkswagen of America Inc., said VWoA is fully committed to bringing latest diesel technology to the U.S. , starting next year. "It all comes together as we localize our model range (for North America," Jacoby said. "We are investigating a plant location in the United States. We have an engine plant in Mexico and we have to define what kind of engine to offer here in the United States," Jacoby added. -end
... Just walked into a restaurant. There is a nice looking four door Zx-4 Focus outside. Thinking about what a great car this would be with a two liter CRD, and a six speed. Isn't there a Bastille or something we can storm ???
I have the same thoughts every time I fill my Ford Ranger that gets about 17 MPG around town. I could be getting 30+ MPG with a small 4 cylinder diesel. All blame for the waste of fossil fuel has to rest on the scumbags at CARB.
quote- We’ll get a 3.5-liter V-6 gas engine that Europe won’t get. Conversely, the European version will be available with a Volkswagen-supplied diesel engine, not to be sold in America. Can’t say that we were totally surprised. Readers asked the same question that we had been kicking around: Why isn’t Chrysler bringing the diesel-engine Journey to the United States? Seems like a reasonable question. According to Chrysler, the 2-liter turbodiesel bound for Europe gets 34 m.p.g., nearly 50 percent more fuel efficient than the V-6 to be sold here. end- Chryslers Plans for Diesel
The market has proved willing to do so, and Chrysler is acting on it.”
BMW Diesel to USA quote- BMW AG reveals its first major diesel push in the U.S. and Canada will begin with a 3.0L inline 6 cyl. with variable twin-turbo technology.
The German auto maker, which has offered a diesel engine for 24 years in Europe and now counts seven such mills in its lineup, first announced in 2006 plans to bring one of the award-winning powertrains to the U.S.-end
.... While I was in Vancouver, BC. The Loonie hit slightly above par against the US dollar. Today it is 1 US D to .998 CN D. The upshot is the US dollar is slipping in relation to the Euro and future diesels might indeed cost more due to currency fluctuations.
... Ford & Chevy if you had any cahoots, you would just build, sell, pay the fines, Diesel, Focus(i), Cobalts, Rangers, and Colarados. Catapillar paid fines on their engines for about 18 months, to try and figure a way out of an American disgrace (EGR). Now it's your turn to show the World the advantages of: high pressure injection, particulate traps, sophisticated fueling maps, long engine life, and one cat. Cat did not have three of these modernizations when they took on the stranglehold of the entrenched bureacracies.
... Don't you just love the Lame Lurkers on this site? ... So, a few years back when all the major (Volvo, Mack, Detroit, Cummins) Diesel manus, except Caterpillar gave up and installed what they knew was wrong (EGR), Cat tried to comply with their new twin turbo ACCERT tech. Eventually even the Giant (Cat) was forced into this disgrace and we have the disgusting fact that EPA and CARB are forcing more damage than they are solving. Somewhere in this Cat had to pay some fines until they complied. ... Maybe Cat thought the debacle would have been more self evident as the terrible results of the early complying manus became an accomplished fact, but it is falling on deaf bureaucratic ears. ... I realize that the manus have been some of the problem as they appear to cry wolf and the first thing stated is that we can't accomplish that and a few years later we find out they can, but CARB and EPA have forced us beyond physics, petrochemistry (taking heat out of combustion) and common sense, with an ignorance of the big picture and maintenance problems down the road.
"Don't you just love the Lame Lurkers on this site?" ======================================================= An amusing unintended commentary on the sources of comments being a determinant of their value.
Some of the better quotes from the Globe Auto piece were the following: "...it must be seen to be taking actions that take it out of the environmental spotlight — a spotlight permanently fixed on personal transportation as one of the root causes, if not the root cause, of manmade greenhouse gas emissions, smog and pollution in general. Make no mistake, the auto industry is being acutely affected by concerns about the environment — whether it likes it or not." And, "Much of the innovation in diesel technology is a result of car companies trying to walk this tightrope. Without government regulations, German car makers would have been unlikely to develop a treatment process in the exhaust system that cuts nitrogen oxide emissions".
But still no "magic bullet" to deal with CO2 and heat. Mass transit, shared rides, city planning, restricted driving, will help enormously, but may be too late.
... I do know just about all that EPA, CARB, and the big Diesel manufacturers are doing wrong in regards to NOx but I don't actually know what these last few percentage points of improvement in NOx emission are gaining, and it's is the last few percentage points that are causing huge problems. Any comments from the here fore silent majority? BTW, I realize the first 90 percent of improvement.
Actually your example and the lack of information would be an indicator. What is the cost of conversion for passenger cars? A practical question is the fuel logistics. It would be good have multiple places to fuel: at home, established fuel stations, propane dealers, etc, etc,. Another question is how much per gal for fuel, what is the mpg, or the cost per mile driven. A practical question right now: what is the % of the passenger vehicle fleet which is propane? I do notice there are a few fuel stations that do sell propane, #2 diesel, RUG, PUL, etc. Right now the only nat gas offering is a special order Honda Civic. I read in passing it has less than a 250 mile range. When compared to a diesels of app 600-700 than can be a severe disadvantage. Combined with a shortage of fuel logistics....
Nat gas/propane are definitely considered alternative fuel/s.
In the colder areas of North America, below 5 degrees above or minus 20 celsius, diesel is very hard to start and takes way too long to warm up.
Hogwash! I have had two diesels and have never plugged them in. In the early 80's I had an Isuzu I-Mark and left it sitting in -20 F (-29 C) for three days. Stuck the key in the ignition. Pre-heat took 3.5 seconds and the sucker fired right up. Put it in gear after thirty seconds, had heat in about five minutes of driving. Had 85,000 miles on the Isuzu at the time. I own a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD. This past winter we had 9 F (-13 C) cold. Again, I did not plug it in. Pre-heat took two seconds and the Jeep started promptly. Again, I had heat in less than five minutes.
Propane is 105 octane and costs 2/3 the price of diesel or gasoline at the pump.
Propane for residential use is about $1.80/gallon. Also, LP has only 67% of the energy contained in an equivalent volume of diesel or biodiesel, hardly a bargain. Kind of like E85 when you think about it with over 20% loss in FE. :sick:
I'm hardly the silent majority. I am a very big fan of diesel vehicles as I am sure you are aware. I got tired of waiting for some manufacturer to build an SUV that I could buy in CA to help cut the flow of fossil fuel. I bought a new 2007 Sequoia 4X4 Limited. I doubt it will get over 15 MPG around town. That is a decision I had little control over. The dweebs in Sacramento say no diesel so we burn 1/2 again as much gas to get the same results. I was never motivated by saving money in the first place. It was principle. Well the losers at CARB win. I will be contributing about twice as much to the global warming with this new vehicle.
The other issue is near to your heart. The emissions devices that are being put on diesel vehicles to try and keep up with the moving target that CARB has presented us with. My experience with Ford Powerstroke diesel engines in the last couple years has been less than encouraging. Our 4 diesel trucks spent more time in the shop with check engine lights than they did on the road. I can foresee that being a real issue with diesels that finally make it to CA. I bought the last model year of the Sequoia before they add all the new emissions crapola that is on the 2008 Sequoia. I don't need to spend all my time in the shop getting sensors changed and computers reset.
I came to the Edmund's diesel thread in 1998 looking for answers. I will continue to monitor here. I have lost my zeal to buy a diesel vehicle. CARB wins and we will be using more fossil fuel and emitting more GHG as a result. If you live near the ocean you might consider moving inland... I Did!
I am riding around in semi Luxury, with a nice ladies voice telling me when to turn. I still don't trust Toyota so I got the 7 year $0 deductible Platinum warranty...
..."The CNG fuel tank in the 2006 Honda Civic GX is large (Honda had to design around it), but for all its bulk, the super-safe tank only holds the equivalent of 8 gallons of gasoline. A Civic LX, by contrast, holds 65 percent more. Since the EPA's mileage estimates for the two Civics don't differ much (28 city/39 highway for the GX, 30 city/40 highway for the LX), GX owners will need to refuel almost twice as often as LX owners."...
The details are in the article, but the vehicle itself is app 12-13k more than my gasser Honda Civic. This would buy a lot of RUG @ 3 per gal, 4000-4333 gals. At 38-42 mpg that converts to 152,000- 182,000 miles. With an expected 1000 or less premium expected for a diesel Honda option, if diesel can expect 25% more (conservatively, but on Jetta it is more like 42%) or 48-53 mpg, this converts to 192,000-230,000 miles! This is not even to mention the home nat gas fueling system at 3/4k.
... Gagrice, you are certainly not silent on this board, but sometimes I think it's just myself and a half dozen more. Edmund's would help if they posted the number of hits. I am sure they have a count. Then I can decide if I am wasting my time here.
Comments
OK, I'm going to assume that was not a joke. If it was a joke, you can stop reading right now.
But if not.........>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You can't honestly mean you are holding a WWII grudge against Japan's current population, very few of whom were even BORN in 1941, can you?
Dude, that was 66 years ago.
None of the current Japanese carmakers are run or financed by any of Emperor Hirohito's clan.
So, if you are not holding a grudge against an individual person, against whom is your grudge? A whole country? A race of people?
P.S. Saturn has two hybrids which will carry 5 adults and which get decent mileage for vehicles of that size, and Ford has one also. Better (you know, just for your own personal peace of mind) check the employee roster of Saturn and Ford and make sure there are no Japanese employees, though.
And yes the air was very nice in the Hill Country of TX.
Some of us need to challenge this poor soul. I was born in a dirty steel CITY Erie, PA. I was moved to Los Angeles at 6 months. I was able to get out of the CITY that some considered in the 1960s & 1970s as THE most polluted in the USA. We were as dirt poor as anyone living in the city. Taking free canned food from kind folks in the Church. If we got out. You or anyone else that wants to can get out.
There are plenty of open spaces all around you that have clean air. You have CHOSEN to stay in the most polluted city in California. Hop on a bus and get off where the air is clear. There are more places with good air than bad in this big country of ours. It is still YOUR CHOICE as to where you settle down. No myth just FACT. Unless you are in Prison in San Bernardino. If that is the case breath deep......
Send in the diesels, we are ready to save some fossil fuel.
Lutz - Diesels No Panacea
The audio report is by Drew Winter.
I'm convinced that diesel emissions standards are too strict for the time period they are enacted.
Delaying the implementation by 5 years would have allowed the automakers to develop technology to meet the requirements in a more effective manner.
Anyway, I look forward to more diesel news here so I can evaluate my next round of diesel choices for the next phase of my life... I expect to keep TDI VWs in my family-fleet for many years, and will be evaluating both gasser hybrids and diesels for future new-vehicle purchases. Honda accord diesel will get a serious look from me. I hope the offer it with a standard-trans and maxxed with options. I think I've finally caved-in to the idea to accepting a NAV-system in my next vehicle, even at extra cost.
Here are my top choices-
1. Container ship powered by Wartsila-Sulzer RTA96-C to operate from Port of LA to other CA ports.
2. GE AC6000CW Diesel Locomotive - 16-cylinder model HDL 4-stroke GE diesel engine provides 6,000 hp. Could be a lot of fun on the rails!
3. Kenworth C500 w/ Caterpillar C15 engine and dump box - Why not, could handle all my hauling needs to and from Home Depot!
The above are all vehicles that operate within CARB emissions regulations while at the same time the cleanest diesel vehicles in the world are prohibited. Makes all the sense in the world to me! :P
Since I'm an idiot that believes in CARB 100% I've decided to sell my VW Tdi clean diesel (Clean diesel's are BAAAAD, CARB is against them) and purchase a diesel that burns dirty off-road diesel.
If I'm lucky I can then get a share of the BILLION dollars of taxpayer money that CA is distributing to clean up diesel emissions.
Or, perhaps I should just move to one of the many countries in Europe with over 50% of passenger vehicles as diesels and people still manage to have a longer life expectancy than in the US. If only Europeans would adopt CARB standards they would probably live FOREVER! :P
If you are so sure of your position, why not post some studies that compare vehicles that are available with both gas and diesel engines. With the diesel vehicle burning the mandated ULSD. I think you will find that overall the diesel is the better choice for fuel. Can you even find a study where CARB has tested a modern diesel car such as the VW TDI with the diesel fuel mandated in CA? CARB condemned them without testing from all I can find. All the data on their website is old, old, old!
... CARB will probably say that is good thing (more carbon) because now ships can pass through the Northwest passage in summer; rather than admit that they have made a mistake.
You're assuming that Hypno44 has a position.
Reading back through the posts, I am not sure there is really a definable Hypno44 position. Seems like a general view that we should only use public transport and that we're all doomed anyway (which surely suggests we should all try and get a Porsche and go out in style).
I certainly am interested in hearing alternative views, but the vague generalities just seem like a waste of time.
Tick Tock.
His posts are mostly just thinly-veiled political diatribes and have little to do with diesel vs. gasoline or anything like that. It's individualism vs. collectivism. That's why it would be nice to have an "ignore" button here, like on some other forums to eliminate what I consider to be little more than spam.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Just read an article from the UK that claims biofuels of all types from corn or rapeseed are causing more Green House Gas than good old fossil fuel. I think maybe ULSD is the way to go. When we start getting a steady supply of diesel from natural gas we will be doing even better. There could be 500 years worth of natural gas reserves that are known. I only worry about the next 100 years.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2507851.ece
The issue is rising some discussion here in Spain, too. Also because some claims that biofuel is behind current increments in the price of bread and milk, the latter due to the price of the cow food.
Regards,
Jose
UAW is striking GM. First time in 36 years a national UAW stike against GM.
Here is a bit of diesel info. on GM's new diesels.
I sure as heck would not want to drive ANY car for 500,000 plus miles.
So you escaped one city as a 6mo old to go to another city - hmmm. I guess we should crank up the good judgment award on that one. Then you suggest that all the rest of the people escape to another myth, that of "the wide open spaces" where they will, um, all now be - hmmm. Maybe a double award is due.
Probably because that issue would be better handled by a host.
It's not that other posters have a hard time with you because you don't support diesel, I don't remember many instances of you arguing specifically against diesel, just that you seem to think that all private transport is wrong.
Since all private transport is intrinsically wrong to you, it seems to make any debate pointless. Frankly you just put out a lot of very general opinions that you don't usually support with facts. It's impossible for any other poster to feel that there is a serious intent on your part to take part in a discussion, just a wish to posture.
Clearly not everyone lives in cities, clearly private transport is not going away within our lifetimes (so why not find the least bad solution?), clearly anyone can move from a polluted city to a less polluted city or entirely out of the city. It is a personal choice and nothing you have posted supports the (odd) assertion that living outside the city is a 'myth'.
My wife's family is certainly imaginary and certainly lives in the country. Their closest neighbor is 10 miles away, his water comes from a well, his power comes from the local co-op. It's not rocket science and it's not particularly mythic, it's just how a certain percentage of the country's population chooses to live.
The most mileage I have gone were 250,000 miles each in a 70 VW Beetle and 87 Toyota Landcruiser.
As it applies to diesel, the Jetta TDI is a baby going on 99,000 miles. I just got back from a 2,000 mile N/S trip with an average of 52 mpg. I did a fair amount of driving in downtown Portland OR, Vancouver, BC. Both bigger cities have large diesel populations. Relatively both seem to have very clean air.
I didn't have to idle too long at either border crossing. (app 15-20 min per side)
Anyone who can drive either one of those vehicles that far can surely drive any vehicle any greater distance, especially a well maintained TDI.
Jetta TDI Spring 2008. Sportwagen looks fantastic.
quote-
Volkswagen AG is considering building diesel engines somewhere in North America as part of its effort to expand sales in theUnited States, Volkswagen of America's new chief executive said as the company rolled out its latest diesel promotion for reporters.
Stefan Jacoby, chief executive officer of Volkswagen of America Inc., said VWoA is fully committed to bringing latest diesel technology to the U.S. , starting next year.
"It all comes together as we localize our model range (for North America," Jacoby said. "We are investigating a plant location in the United States. We have an engine plant in Mexico and we have to define what kind of engine to offer here in the United States," Jacoby added.
-end
http://www.topspeed.com/cars/car-news/volkswagen-will-sell-china-built-car-in-us- a-ar39960.html
Excerpt: Volkswagen will sell in North America a car built in China. The model is a reworked version of the next-generation Passat.
We’ll get a 3.5-liter V-6 gas engine that Europe won’t get. Conversely, the European version will be available with a Volkswagen-supplied diesel engine, not to be sold in America.
Can’t say that we were totally surprised. Readers asked the same question that we had been kicking around: Why isn’t Chrysler bringing the diesel-engine Journey to the United States?
Seems like a reasonable question. According to Chrysler, the 2-liter turbodiesel bound for Europe gets 34 m.p.g., nearly 50 percent more fuel efficient than the V-6 to be sold here.
end-
Chryslers Plans for Diesel
The market has proved willing to do so, and Chrysler is acting on it.”
quote-
BMW AG reveals its first major diesel push in the U.S. and Canada will begin with a 3.0L inline 6 cyl. with variable twin-turbo technology.
The German auto maker, which has offered a diesel engine for 24 years in Europe and now counts seven such mills in its lineup, first announced in 2006 plans to bring one of the award-winning powertrains to the U.S.-end
http://www.globeauto.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071004.wh-dieselmain-1004/GAStory- /specialGlobeAuto/home
Regards,
Jose
... So, a few years back when all the major (Volvo, Mack, Detroit, Cummins) Diesel manus, except Caterpillar gave up and installed what they knew was wrong (EGR), Cat tried to comply with their new twin turbo ACCERT tech. Eventually even the Giant (Cat) was forced into this disgrace and we have the disgusting fact that EPA and CARB are forcing more damage than they are solving. Somewhere in this Cat had to pay some fines until they complied.
... Maybe Cat thought the debacle would have been more self evident as the terrible results of the early complying manus became an accomplished fact, but it is falling on deaf bureaucratic ears.
... I realize that the manus have been some of the problem as they appear to cry wolf and the first thing stated is that we can't accomplish that and a few years later we find out they can, but CARB and EPA have forced us beyond physics, petrochemistry (taking heat out of combustion) and common sense, with an ignorance of the big picture and maintenance problems down the road.
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An amusing unintended commentary on the sources of comments being a determinant of their value.
Some of the better quotes from the Globe Auto piece were the following: "...it must be seen to be taking actions that take it out of the environmental spotlight — a spotlight permanently fixed on personal transportation as one of the root causes, if not the root cause, of manmade greenhouse gas emissions, smog and pollution in general. Make no mistake, the auto industry is being acutely affected by concerns about the environment — whether it likes it or not." And, "Much of the innovation in diesel technology is a result of car companies trying to walk this tightrope. Without government regulations, German car makers would have been unlikely to develop a treatment process in the exhaust system that cuts nitrogen oxide emissions".
But still no "magic bullet" to deal with CO2 and heat. Mass transit, shared rides, city planning, restricted driving, will help enormously, but may be too late.
Tick tock!
Actually your example and the lack of information would be an indicator. What is the cost of conversion for passenger cars? A practical question is the fuel logistics. It would be good have multiple places to fuel: at home, established fuel stations, propane dealers, etc, etc,.
Another question is how much per gal for fuel, what is the mpg, or the cost per mile driven. A practical question right now: what is the % of the passenger vehicle fleet which is propane? I do notice there are a few fuel stations that do sell propane, #2 diesel, RUG, PUL, etc. Right now the only nat gas offering is a special order Honda Civic. I read in passing it has less than a 250 mile range. When compared to a diesels of app 600-700 than can be a severe disadvantage. Combined with a shortage of fuel logistics....
Nat gas/propane are definitely considered alternative fuel/s.
In the colder areas of North America, below 5 degrees above or minus 20 celsius, diesel is very hard to start and takes way too long to warm up.
Hogwash! I have had two diesels and have never plugged them in. In the early 80's I had an Isuzu I-Mark and left it sitting in -20 F (-29 C) for three days. Stuck the key in the ignition. Pre-heat took 3.5 seconds and the sucker fired right up. Put it in gear after thirty seconds, had heat in about five minutes of driving. Had 85,000 miles on the Isuzu at the time. I own a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD. This past winter we had 9 F (-13 C) cold. Again, I did not plug it in. Pre-heat took two seconds and the Jeep started promptly. Again, I had heat in less than five minutes.
Propane is 105 octane and costs 2/3 the price of diesel or gasoline at the pump.
Propane for residential use is about $1.80/gallon. Also, LP has only 67% of the energy contained in an equivalent volume of diesel or biodiesel, hardly a bargain.
The other issue is near to your heart. The emissions devices that are being put on diesel vehicles to try and keep up with the moving target that CARB has presented us with. My experience with Ford Powerstroke diesel engines in the last couple years has been less than encouraging. Our 4 diesel trucks spent more time in the shop with check engine lights than they did on the road. I can foresee that being a real issue with diesels that finally make it to CA. I bought the last model year of the Sequoia before they add all the new emissions crapola that is on the 2008 Sequoia. I don't need to spend all my time in the shop getting sensors changed and computers reset.
I came to the Edmund's diesel thread in 1998 looking for answers. I will continue to monitor here. I have lost my zeal to buy a diesel vehicle. CARB wins and we will be using more fossil fuel and emitting more GHG as a result. If you live near the ocean you might consider moving inland...
I am riding around in semi Luxury, with a nice ladies voice telling me when to turn. I still don't trust Toyota so I got the 7 year $0 deductible Platinum warranty...
No STINKING BUSES for me.
Cold starting myth is so 1970's.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Followup/articleId=116833
The details are in the article, but the vehicle itself is app 12-13k more than my gasser Honda Civic. This would buy a lot of RUG @ 3 per gal, 4000-4333 gals. At 38-42 mpg that converts to 152,000- 182,000 miles. With an expected 1000 or less premium expected for a diesel Honda option, if diesel can expect 25% more (conservatively, but on Jetta it is more like 42%) or 48-53 mpg, this converts to 192,000-230,000 miles! This is not even to mention the home nat gas fueling system at 3/4k.