By accessing this website, you acknowledge that Edmunds and its third party business partners may use cookies, pixels, and similar technologies to collect information about you and your interactions with the website as described in our
Privacy Statement, and you agree that your use of the website is subject to our
Visitor Agreement.
Comments
Imagine if diesel affecionados really were so dull as to pay more for a used diesel than for a new one. And the million mile cars is always amusing - especially for mechanics.
Carry on please - SNL is not as funny as it once was!
Perhaps you should apply for the job!
Well I do have to say, I am ok with folks paying a whole lot more for a Prius than a Jetta TDI or Corolla for a plain jane commute. I am even ok with folks living in a place like NYC who willingly overpay for housing, so they can take mass transportation! As for the million miles, give me a break, I am only going on my second set of 100,000 miles (after 4 years)!
Tell me when you take over SNL, I'll even watch!
There are just two problems with mass transit. Nobody uses it, and it costs like hell. Only 4% of Americans take public transportation to work. Even in cities they don't do it. Less than 25% of commuters in the New York metropolitan area use public transportation. Elsewhere it's far less--9.5% in San Francisco-Oakland-San Jose, 1.8% in Dallas-Fort Worth. As for total travel in urban parts of America--all the comings and goings for work, school, shopping, etc.--1.7 % of those trips are made on mass transit.
You wrote "There are just two problems with mass transit. Nobody uses it, and it costs like hell. Only 4% of Americans take public transportation to work. Even in cities they don't do it. Less than 25% of commuters in the New York metropolitan area use public transportation."
WRONG! According to the Metropolitan Transportation Authority, ridership on NYC mass transit is over seven million passengers per day, over two billion passengers per year. In fact, rush hour capacity has reached the bursting point in the subway system. They can't add more subway cars because the station platforms aren't long enough. There are long-range plans to expand those stations to accept longer trains.
New Yorkers can purchase a 30-day unlimited ride MetroCard, good for use on subways and buses, for $76.00. That's only about $3.45 per day for a typical 22-day per month commuter. For anyone having to make a few trips a day, it's an even more incredible bargain and it keeps hundreds of thousands of vehicles off of the streets of Manhattan, Queens, Brooklyn, the Bronx, and Staten Island.
Those figures don't even include the numerous commuter railroads and bus lines that bring hundreds of thousands of suburbanites into and out of NYC daily.
Which, considering that some people take 4 rides during one day as part of their commute, some more, some fewer, probably amounts to 1-1.5m unique commuters per day, which is likely 25% of the working, commuting population of the metropolitan area.
Clearly, the vast majority of commuters go to work and go home. That's two rides per passenger per day.
the big news, actual diesel news, is that there is a 50 state diesel car available in the USA again. WOO HOO! bring it!
i saw one on rt 3 in MA last week. E320 bluetec that is.
actually maybe it was a 2007. it had NH plates.
I know at least one person in MA who might be ready to buy an E320 bluetec. Can he buy one in MA? Or should I tell him to wait for the 2008 bluemotion jetta, and to buy a pair of those instead. I'm serious - please give me serious answers, with no hypno-axegrinding-hogwash.
You need to protest to the Wall Street Journal and writer PJ O'Rourke.
As pointed out this is not about mass transit though we get many posters here touting the advantages and none of the disadvantages.
People are going to continue solo commuting to work. If we can save 30% of the fuel in a diesel compared to gas vehicle. It seems like a good start.
For elias:
For a work vehicle I would get the Jetta TDI. For cross country pleasure cruising the E320 CDI. It looks like they are only leasing the Mercedes blutec. That may only be in the CARB states.
In hindsight I am happy with the (non common rail) vehicle and price points (17,000 as I have seen official VW marketing/PR releases). VW has initateded massive improvements with most of it unseen and have increased the power and efficiency of the TDI. They have also announced plans to drop relative price points (same same to 18,000), as part of the overall goal of increasing the US market unit sales.
Tick tock!
Ask them if they also would not mind the loss of revenues from the very sources you seem to condemn or scoff at. You might want to tic tock us a report, or smart money is on (you will) NOT.
You also might want to gauge what the rest of the state of NY thinks as NYC continues to suck most of the power and economics out of the rest of the state. Ask those areas that are in relative states of "arrested decay"
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
kcram - Pickups Host
Now a days from a diesel perspective, it is just broken in at 60,000 miles.!!
What I really liked about it was that it was fun to drive. Little 4 or 5 speed manual. (can't remember which).
They only came in two colors, red or silver and I can remember seeing some later on where the paint looked bad.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
It's Fall 2008, where is the diesel Accord or Ridgeline?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Right now the Honda Civic consumable items (tires, alignment, brake pads, rotors) are wearing (as a min) twice as fast as the consumable items on the VW Jetta TDI (given the same plain jane commute ). Oil consumption, while miniscule for both is also twice as much.
So do I hope the durability will increase? Yes! Do I think the durability will increase? NO! Would I swag it will be a competitive advantage to increase? Yes! Do I think Honda should transpose its European experience over to the US markets for this iCTDI? YES!
after reading some more, seems like this E320 bluetec in Cali is really a 46 state diesel since it does not have "adblue". i guess we'll have to wait a while for a true 50-state diesel car. seeing is believing!
PJ Orourke is writing articles about diesel vehicles now!? he's a funny dude, but i didn't see any humour in the quote.
My '82 Accord base hatchback was around $7500 MSRP..
'77 VW Scirocco was $5250 base MSRP..
So, a '79 Accord hatch was probably in the high $5K area.. with 4-door LX models being high $6K.. and, of course, they were bringing MSRP or maybe even a little more at that time..
The only reason I know, is that I was shopping all of those cars at that time.. I kept my Accord until 1994, and put 130K mostly trouble-free miles on it..
Edmunds Price Checker
Edmunds Lease Calculator
Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!
Edmunds Moderator
In hind sight, I now wonder how the 1982 would have fared with 200,000, 300,000 miles, etc.
Given your "46", 45, 44, state "legal status" that is respectively; 2.173913, 2.2222, 2.272727 vehicles per state. (we really don't like YOUR kind in these parts)Will they end up in each state like that? Probably NOT! Incidently now the anti's will probably opine that these vehicles will single handedly be responsible for the majority of the smog in each of those states!!
1. 2008 Merc. E320 blue tec----$69,071
2. 2008 Merc. E350-------------$72,722.
3. 2006 Jetta TDI-------------$34,493.
4. 2006 Jetta 4 cyl gas-------$31,039.
(2006 was the only year I could compare)
5. 2008 Camry Hybrid----------$40,316.
6. 2008 Camry LE 4 cyl gas ---$37,712.
Edmunds includes depreciation, finance cost, insurance, taxes and fees, fuel, maintenance, and repairs in their True Cost to Own calculations.
Now, I own none of the above so I do not have an ax to grind here. Just sharing info. I also have no way of knowing if Edmunds is right or not. I could even have made some mistakes myself in recording these numbers, so please feel free to look these and others up yourself.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
When I bought the '79 Accord 4-door it was one of the first, if not the first one delivered in the Kansas City area and had all the options. Also I do believe I paid some amount over MSRP.
I wish there was a site where you could look up MSRP's for past years.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
If anything, I should have bought more than one TDI in 2003. Indeed Edmunds.com for the 2003 model year shows the 1.9T TDI to have had app 4,600 dollars higher resale value than same Jetta only the 2.0 and 1.8T gassers models. So with time, break even then (in this case) is almost moot.
But again the structural differences will probably not change much. For example on the 2003 Jetta 1.8T, RUG at 8 and 29 mpg and 2003, #2 diesel at 8 and 50 mpg, which fuel is cheaper/more expensive per mile driven?
In an earlier post you implied that your Honda Civic was more expensive to maintain than your Jetta TDI. Here is what Edmunds came up with on total cost per mile driven over a five year period assuming 15,000 miles per year:
2006 Jetta TDI----.46 per mile driven
2006 Jetta gas----.41 per mile driven
2006 Civic LX gas-.38 per mile driven
2006 Prius--------.41 per mile driven
Please remember that your personal results may vary!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
No. I did not IMPLY IT! I said it directly!!! Perhaps I was not clear enough? I went on to say (a min of) 2x faster! So for example, I will need new tires at 60,000 for the Civic rather than at 120,000 for the Jetta!!! This is on the same every day commute.
So given the $4,600/ 100,000 miles the TDI would be .046 cents mer mile cheaper to operate.
It's an enthusiast's forum.
Perhaps you should be looking up MIT rather than posting snide, off-topic comments.
BTW, do you know if VW is planning to sell diesel-powered Golf/Rabbit in the US besides the Jetta?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Then please re-read my post. I was not giving my opinion, I was posting hard info from the Edmunds' True Cost To Own site. It is pretty clear.
If you want my opinion then I would submit that their information, compiled from thousands and thousands of car ownership experiences are more statistically valid than any single individuals experience that is based on only one car.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
As a real world comparison, my VW maintenance cost and total cost of operation per mile is no where near .46 cents per mile or $46,000, as per the re read you have asked me to do!! Including all that I can possibly include, it is more like .25 cents. This is assuming ZERO residual value. I have showed this to be false! Now if I keep it another 4 years (which I do plan to do) the payments drop out and so another 100,000 miles will cost LESS than .09 cents (actually .08567). The average for 200,000 miles will project to .17 cents per mile. So assuming residual value, it is simple to see the cost will be EVEN less than .17 cents per mile driven!!?? (or maybe not so simple!) Perhaps that is the real reason why the marketing systems pooh poohs diesel. SPENDING .41 cents per mile is better than (less than).17 cents any day!?
Just so I am clear, I will take the less than .17 cents over the .41 cents!
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
Having said that, it gave me great pause (4 years ago) in getting a VW. Research revealed most "VW" problems were indeed (gasser) engine related. TDI's had FAR less issues than the gasser models. However I would be remiss if I did not say that TDI's have their own issues! Ergo, since I was getting a TDI, many if not all those issues disappeared. Another was auto transmission vs 5 speed manual. Since my emphasis was getting best fuel mileage and having a good road car that could do commutes well, that indicated the 5 speed manual. Further research also indicated 400-450,000 mile clutch life. If it goes longer, that is gravy, if it goes sooner, I just need to amortize the repair costs (750 dollars) over less mileage. As you know clutch replacement is a normal (but not scheduled) maintenance item. (In the parallel universe auto transmission repair and replacement is part of normal maintenance for the Honda (I have an auto transmission) but is WAY more expensive). I because of short mileage, it is not commonly thought of as normal.) So now it was could I mitigate any and all issues with the TDI, either at the dealer (most are poor and expensive at best) or independent shops or gurus. The answer/s were yes. Of course, tires, brake pads, rotors, shocks, springs, are longer distance maintenance items. Scheduled maintenance items such as oil filters, oil, air filters, cabin filters, fuel filters, almost all cars have to do at some interval anyway. Again research indicated that a lot of them could be done at much longer intervals vs Honda which usually warns of catastrophic danger if you exceed. So to make a long story short, since I anticipated the Civic tires to last not more than 50,000 miles, (it is a pleasant surprise that it will probably hit 60,0000 to 65,000 miles) I bought a set of tires when it was on sale and when I didn't need it. I will pop them on when the tire depth gauge indicates.
Again the VW tires will easily go 110,000 miles, if not 120-125,000 miles.
So yes, my understanding is Golf diesels will be sold in the US market. The Rabbit I am not so sure.
Another possibility for me was the Honda, but since I want either a wagon or a hatchback, and Honda apparently is not interested in bringing those to the US, that pretty much kills the idea for me. Now, if Honda put the same diesel engine (not a larger one) into the CRV, it might give me more options.
Pity neither Ford not GM have any apparent plans for offering in the US what they commonly offer in Europe. Truly, Detroit is taking US consumers for granted.
Starting in what model year?
On closer look, the Honda ONLY changes the timing belt and water pump and if other stuff seems broken (seals etc) they will change and charge you for it. On a VW fully 30 (extra) parts are changed out. Which would tend to be more reliable durable?
While time will tell, I am hoping for problem free (subject) components for 500k-1M miles! In any case, the vehicle is a babe in the woods at 100,000 miles.