Just a snap shot but using Civic 38-42 for RUG, 40 mpg, 48-52, 50 mpg for Jetta TDI, Civic Propane 20-25 mpg, 25 mpg, we get a per mile driven cost of Civic gasser .0715, TDI .0622, Civic nat gas .104
When I looked into converting my 1993 Chevy 3/4 ton it was $5,000+ for conversion to LNG or CNG. LPG was less by a quite a bit. You did have to haul the extra tanks around. Plus the added benefit of a much cleaner burning engine. Oil changes could be extended out a lot further. Was it worth the hassle. I doubt it.
I think the additional difficulty is the taxing authorities would fall all over each other in trying to increase taxes due to home fueling as nat gas at home is already taxed, despite the acknowledged advantages and already high taxation. It would also create a whole new class of felons! But the per mile driven is pretty telling as using propane/CNG/LPG is 40% more than diesel. This is not even counting the levels of cost to convert.
magic man, i understand the max ethanol content can be 10% and the average across USA is required to be 5%. more ethanol % in urban areas, less in rural areas, and nowhere in USA with less than a couple % ethanol. enjoy the extra cost per gallon and lower mpg due to ethanol. hooray! or buy a diesel vehicle, of course.
As far as I know, the pumps do have to be labelled. Also it's definitely not at all pumps.
In my part of the world, I find ethanol blends in Dallas pretty frequently but none further south in San Antonio or Austin. It seems that the heartland has pretty widespread blending but it gets less the further you get from the source of the ethanol.
See what I mean, I have gotten two opposing answers. If it is true that the pumps do not have to be labeled then it is indeed a ripoff!
It may not help to buy a diesel as the politicians may be adding ethanol to that too!
I would like to have a clean modern diesel from Honda but diesel is almost 60 cents a gal higher than reg where I live. Kind of takes the fun out of it.
hooty, i guess you can't believe everything you read, whether it's a posting here or a label on a gas pump. and you can't believe it either when you don't read an absent label on a gas pump - i'll bet you $3 there is still ethanol in the gas from that pump. but you can probably believe some sort of specific-gravity test or whatever it takes to measure the percentage of ethanol in gasoline. who knows, maybe you'd have to go all Emeril and do a calorie-test to count the ethanol percentage. the politicians can sure do stupid things like foot-tapping in a bathroom stall or passing legislation about historical facts which infuriate one of USA's crucial allies. i wouldn't put anything past our politicians.
Found this interesting. I was told by a station owner that ethanoled (sic) gasoline is cheaper for the station to buy than 100% gasoline. I was told by a station manager that all gasoline in Texas has ethanol. The margin of profit is very small just a few cents a gallon for station owners. I bet there is a lot more Egas everywhere just because of the profit motive. Just my .02. Comments?
You mean the EXTRA margin of profit is just a few cents a gallon, right?
And instead of passing the savings on to the customer, the station owner pockets it. All we get is fewer miles per gallon thus our price effectively goes up!
Next thing you know they will be cutting it with water...with the politicians blessings.
According to Jim Press, Chrysler has agreement for access to Daimler diesel technology.
quote Jim- Press hinted that we'll see the company's green offerings - in terms of diesels and hybrids - expanded. "We're not behind in diesel," he proclaimed, pointing to the technology agreement with Mercedes-Benz, in which the Chrysler has access to the German automaker's technology as if it were still owned by them. Press also said that the company seeks to create hybrids that don't involve as much compromise for consumers, to which he added, "Eventually everything will be a hybrid." "There are some customers who like driving appliances, and we need to get better at that," said Press in seriousness, explaining that Chrysler will need products that appeal to the most practically-minded people in the same way as the company's SRT line appeals to enthusiasts. -end
Jim should know appliances having been at Toyota for a long time. :P
At this juncture, diesel does cost more only if you look at it from a cost/gallon view. If you look at it from a cost/mile view, diesel ends up much cheaper.
On the EPA fuel economy website the 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD, of which I own one, averages 22.9 MPG while the 2005 V-6 with automatic averages 14.9 MPG. Locally 87 octane runs about 2.739 and that gives 18.4 cents/mile driven. ULSD is 2.999 or 13.1 cents/mile driven. For my diesel Jeep to be as costly to drive as the V-6 Jeep, diesel fuel would have to cost about 4.229/gallon. So with a 5.4 cent/mile advantage with diesel and driving 15,000 miles per year and fuel prices staying the same, that is $810 in your pocket. If you do not want that $810, I will gladly take it off your hands!!
Did I imply that there was nothing to like :confuse:
In two trips I took this summer, one to New York City and the other to New England, I got 29.9 MPG and 28.9 MPG respectively. I am certainly not crying about that considering that the V-6 version barely gets 20 MPG in comparable driving.
In local metro D.C. rush hour traffic I have been averaging 23.1 MPG.
I'll ask you because I think you'll know. It's easier to ask you than to wade through all the B/S to discover.
Are brand new E-320 Bluetecs and VW TDIs able to be purchased new in Kallifornia or did the C A R B screw that idea up once again?
Also, remember that cartoon avatar that many were using? It showed Dr. Diesel with his hair being blown off by the wind generated by the power of some unshown diesel hotrod.
Do you know how to or where to find that character?
Daimler will not be able to sell their diesels (new) in any state that follows CARB rules until MY 2008. That is when the full blown Bluetec system will be in affect using urea (Bluetec) solution that is sprayed into the exhaust stream.
The same holds true for the MY 2008 VW cars. Since their engines are smaller, they handle the NOx problem differently.
However, you can still by most any diesel powered car that has at least 7501 miles on it in any CARB rules state. I have never understood why or how that particular number was arrived at. :confuse:
There are of course the "caveats", but you have hit the essential highlights!
I know that of the 5 states that joined with CA in the new (imported) diesel ban (you can still and have always been able to buy diesel light trucks in ALL 50 states), in CA, I know for a fact one can find a few (back door) ways to register a new to used (7501 miles). The other states such as Conn, Maine, Mass, NY, RI, PENN, I will let other folks who live there or know (for sure)answer.
The last I have read, which would meet the 50 state "legal" definition, looks to be 2008.5 at the earliest, to more than likely MY 2009.
The bad news is that Maryland will become a CARB state in 2010 or there about. Kind of stupid when most of our pollution comes from the coal fired electric generators west of us and also from one in Alexandria, VA and another near Dickerson, MD.
The other killer is that public transport here not only stinks but is rather expensive to boot.
It is funny that of this "union" of so called CARB states, almost all allow the burning of so called bunker oil (3000 ppm) in the transportation (shipping/port) industries of their respective jurisdictions. Almost all benefit greatly from the airline industry (burning unmitigated jet fuel). It goes without saying they benefit from the rail and trucking industries (essentially unmitigated, but for the recent ULSD multi year upgrade)
How they can come to the conclusion (which results in operative decisions) that ULSD used by the less than 3% of the passenger vehicle fleet is the enemy while RUG is not only more consumptive per gal, but has a higher ppm (30) of the emissions in question is at best disingenuous. Penn was involved for the longest time and is probably still involved in the production and distribution of coal and other fossilized fuel products and in days past steel with all the attending environmental issues. Los Angeles was once a producing oil field. I could go on and on.
My take is (that in CA anyway) a severe advantage goes to PRE 2009 diesel cars and trucks, slightly used vehicles (7501 miles) in the other 45 states "imported" into CA. (or the other carb states if they allow their reregistration and operation :shades:
Please also note that in the New England CARB states #2 home heating oil has 5000 PPM of sulfur and if the winter weather gets severe enough, the price of that should go through the roof. That issue will not be fixed until 2010 or later when all #2 fuel oil will be ULSD.
As to airplane pollution, there are three major airports in or near the metro D.C. area, Dulles in VA, Baltimore-Washington International, just south of Baltimore and Reagan on the D.C. - VA border.
Next we have automakers like G.M. run by the likes of Bob (K)Lutz. His take on diesel as a solution and solving diesel emissions borders on the ridiculous. What he intends to charge for diesel power in vehicles also borders on the ridiculous. The engines and their emissions systems already exist and work very well, but for some reason (K)Lutz feels he and G.M. need to re-invent the wheel. Truly a leader who lacks any insight or foresight that matter.
(K)Lutz will push E85, decrease FE by > 20%, pollute more, and waste more resources in the process.
It is more than obvious the scientific facts support the notion the greatest pollution is actually being done by OTHER than the 3% of diesel passenger cars. To cause a ban/limiting of #2 diesel and MITIGATED diesel cars is not supported by the very same science that allows the greatest unmitigated pollution emitters.
I truly like the road ability of the MB E320. (gasser) Point of reference is a 2002. I understand the diesel comes with a 7 speed automatic. I truly wish they also had a 6 speed manual option.
Today the E320 diesel went on sale in CA. It now meets 50 states emissions.
What is odd is that the car is not for sale but is only offered on a 2 year 24,000 mile lease. So for people who want to actually BUY one it's still not possible to buy a new diesel car in California. Sadly my State has the same stupid laws as California. But I won't buy a Merc anyway, too expensive. I'll wait for Honda to drop one in the Civic or the Fit.
WOW! It sounds STRANGELY like the all electric models, some years ago! Even as a 4 year diesel owner, I would not want to lease one on a 2 year 24,000 mile lease, unless the terms were EXTREMELY favorable, which I would swag, they are NOT.
WOW! It sounds STRANGELY like the all electric models, some years ago! Even as a 4 year diesel owner, I would not want to lease one on a 2 year 24,000 mile lease, unless the terms were EXTREMELY favorable, which I would swag, they are NOT.
Yeah my thought is they are pulling some sort of stunt, maybe it's to avoid buyers speculating and resell on Ebay or something? Either way it sounds like a bad deal when you can't actually buy a new car but have to lease it instead. I do recall the electric car issue, however I think it might be because of the new bluetec system. What if it's wonky and doesn't work, well you don't own the car so they just take it back. I still think it's a bad idea.
A little blurb in the local rag, San Jose Mercury News, (aka, mercurynews.com) Tuesday, October 16,2007, biz+tech- pg 6c, Alternative fuels,
"Diesel auto arrives from Mercedes", Lease car first of its type allowed by state in nearly a decade,
by Matt Nauman
..."This is a bridge vehicle" (quote of a quote [my sic]) a Mercedes spokesman said.
(in reference to a soon coming 50 state next generation of Mercedes diesels that meet federal regulations as well as those of every state come on line.) It also confirmed what I said about VW offering a (50 state product) 2008 model in MY 2008.5. Most folks know that NORMALLY a new model year is introducted in the latter part of the year before. So a 2008.5 model year is a reference to an intro in say 1st/2nd quarter 2008.
Yes, I scratch my head on this one too. The only things I come up with are MASSIVE burn rates for PR/marketing and massive depreciation/s on the R& D side for the generation that does NOT meet the 50 state product moniker. Probably seamless and important to us the consumers- test mules!
I just returned from a trip from New York to Roanoke. I travelled about 480 miles each way through New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Maryland, West Virginia and Virginia.
The price per gallon of Diesel fuel was consistantly twenty to fifty cents per gallon more than regular grade gasoline.
I just did something similar from CA, OR, WA to Vancouver BC, and return to CA. #2 diesel was 4 dollars (or so per gal 1.07 CN per liter, so was RUG!? ) in Vancouver BC. and 2.79 in Oregon (corner store no less!??(corner stores are NOT known for discounts? ) . Guess where I filled?
Essentially it is a model to model comparison. So until major factors like 50 mpg (diesel Jetta TDI ) to 30 mpg gasser (2.0, 1.8T premium unleaded, which by the way is par with #2 diesel) change, the ratio reflected in cost of fuel per mile driven is the key.
So just using the difference at this writing .30 cents (RUG 2.99 diesel 3.29)this is per mile driven RUG .09967 cents, diesel .0658 cents or .03387 cents/ 34% more expensive than diesel.
My .02 takes are they are not serious about fuel savings, as they are more serious about increasing the cost per mile driven for BOTH. So for example it would signal SERIOUS when say a gasser model of Jetta got 50 mpg as the diesel model got 50 mpg.
It's possible that the lease of 100 vehicles is some sort of arrangement with CARB. However, the fact that there are only going to be 100 offered makes me think that tiff_c is right and they are trying to avoid speculative buying. Once the 100 cars are gone, the value of the cars would go way up. Anyone who says that there isn't a market for diesels in this country should check out the prices they are fetching in the 'enlightened' CARB states.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
Yes, I would actually look to buy a USED one of these so called "historic" (hysteric would probably be more descriptive) in that these are 1/100 " off" vehicles.
You know, sort of like Jay Leno having "one off" vehicles, i.e., FIRST 50 state legal diesel??? (actually my 2003 Jetta is a 50 state legal diesel, which is one reason why THAT MB would have hysterics premium/s?
My family of four plus 2 week full of baggage, all my automotive tools and various sorts of automotive liquid and parts took a very similar trip.
I wanted to be able to brag our 13 year older vw diesel (which was pointing heavenward because of the load) could still take a beating...what was I thinking?
Anyway, our trip started in Ottawa(Canada) and stopped by the same places: New Jersey, Maryland, Roanoke, back to New Jersey, then back to Ottawa.
Along the way, both my front wheel bearings started to hum and my power steering pump gave up. Nothing fatal yet...so we put up with the noise and the toughed it up with the steering til we got home.
Anyway 2125 miles total. My diesel cost? Only US$140.
This was summer, so gasoline was only about 20 cents cheaper than diesel which was around $2.80 then in the US. But 1st and last full tank diesels were in Canada equivalent to US$3.28/gallon.
I’m sure a top condition car with the more efficient TDI engine, plus purchasing ONLY lower US fuel prices would have posted much better results.
How about you? If you drove gasoline and think there isn't much savings I'd like to compare fuel costs...
I drove about 960 miles round trip and got 31.8 miles per gallon with my 2004 Honda Accord V6 A/T. That mpg figure was from the car's Navigation System's very accurate trip computer. I didn't keep a log of fuel costs. But figuring an average of about $2.60 per gallon of regular unleaded gasoline, I spent about $78.50.
Of course all mileages, gallons and dollars are U.S. How many mpg do you figure your VW achieves? I'm extremely happy with that 31.8 mpg while averaging about 75 mph. I felt naked without my radar detector in Virginia though.
WOW! Given the Accord will have more hp and torque than the VW Jetta this is great news! I have to click off to snooze ville to get 62 mpg on the 90 hp/155# ft of torque Jetta. I did do a leg @ between 70-75 mph on a very recent 2000 mile plus trip and got 59 mpg, but I was flirting with road hypnosis. I also have to keep it under 85 to get 52 mpg.
Given 960 miles and 2.60 RUG, .25 cents more or 2.85- diesel, with 32/52 mpg respectively, we are talking .08125/.0548076 cents per mile driven= .0264424 cents more or 33% less per mile driven for diesel? Fuel mileage is also 38% better? Yes this is only 25 dollars saved, but it would buy 8.77 gals and @ 52 mpg, another 456 miles. Imagine if they get serious and make the price of RUG par with diesel and vice versa?
At 75 mph, I would turn off the radar detector, so it will not be annoying! But in truth, it has been a long time since I experienced first hand if the Virginia State Troopers are quota driven.
Notice how he pretended this diesel vehicle, which uses AdBlue, doesn't exist to avoid actually answering the question.
As for "50 state legal", it's just a fancy way of saying "just barely qualifies as clean enough". That Tier2-Bin5 emission rating is nothing to brag about.
It looks like it will not be leased in cold places to start with. Just like hybrids in high mountain roads and ice no car is perfect under all conditions.
As for "50 state legal", it's just a fancy way of saying "just barely qualifies as clean enough". That Tier2-Bin5 emission rating is nothing to brag about.
Just like the Prius out on the open road with a little wind is nothing to brag about. There are other priorities in the auto world than emissions. If you are worried about adblue freezing you can buy a Mercedes diesel in MN without all that emissions crap.
... John, it is my opinion that CARB, EPA and Euro regs went beyond the tipping point, with too strict NOx parameters, at the cost of increased carbon output. Taking heat out of a petro-chemical reaction, has limits, imposed by physics and laws of chemistry, NOT by bureaucratic grandstanders.
Indeed the hybrid population which is arguably the HIGHEST in LOS ANGELES, CA has not even made a MEASURABLE difference to the overall smog situation, let alone a statistically valid correlation, and this was to be a miracle "SAVIOR to both the energy crisis and smog measurements!!??" They even give hybrids with single drivers limo/carpool status as they use the 3 person 24/7 car pool lanes!!??
Ya might want to leave the snake oil sniping/hare krishna postings on the hybrid threads!?
A late model diesel has the emissions footprint of a Toyota Camry/Honda Accord. The diesel also uses far less fuel than any like model as well as any Civic/Corolla it replaces also.
Not that I (personally ) think this way; but YOUR enemy is other GASSERS, NOT diesels!!!!
So for example, if the Prius (hybrid) had a diesel (hybrid) model, fuel mileage would be better than it is now.
Europe has diesel Civics and we here have a host of Civic gasser variants including hybrid gassers and again the same is true, diesel Civics get better mpg than hybrid Civics. If the Civic had a diesel/hybrid Civic, it would get even better mpg. Some of it would be oxymoronic in that diesels have GOBS of low end torque already, so that duplication would have to obviously have to have a solution.
Comments
CA, Frazier Park I-5 Frazier Park Exit
2.859 2.949 3.029 3.109 2.599
http://www.flyingj.com/fuel/gasoline_CF.cfm?state=CA
Just a snap shot but using Civic 38-42 for RUG, 40 mpg, 48-52, 50 mpg for Jetta TDI, Civic Propane 20-25 mpg, 25 mpg, we get a per mile driven cost of Civic gasser .0715, TDI .0622, Civic nat gas .104
Some say that the pumps do not have to even be labeled now.
Anyone know the whole story?
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
or buy a diesel vehicle, of course.
In my part of the world, I find ethanol blends in Dallas pretty frequently but none further south in San Antonio or Austin. It seems that the heartland has pretty widespread blending but it gets less the further you get from the source of the ethanol.
It may not help to buy a diesel as the politicians may be adding ethanol to that too!
I would like to have a clean modern diesel from Honda but diesel is almost 60 cents a gal higher than reg where I live. Kind of takes the fun out of it.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
but you can probably believe some sort of specific-gravity test or whatever it takes to measure the percentage of ethanol in gasoline. who knows, maybe you'd have to go all Emeril and do a calorie-test to count the ethanol percentage.
the politicians can sure do stupid things like foot-tapping in a bathroom stall or passing legislation about historical facts which infuriate one of USA's crucial allies. i wouldn't put anything past our politicians.
The midgrade is consistantly $.10 cheaper than the regular. I still buy regular because it yields better mpg.
And instead of passing the savings on to the customer, the station owner pockets it. All we get is fewer miles per gallon thus our price effectively goes up!
Next thing you know they will be cutting it with water...with the politicians blessings.
2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460
quote Jim-
Press hinted that we'll see the company's green offerings - in terms of diesels and hybrids - expanded. "We're not behind in diesel," he proclaimed, pointing to the technology agreement with Mercedes-Benz, in which the Chrysler has access to the German automaker's technology as if it were still owned by them. Press also said that the company seeks to create hybrids that don't involve as much compromise for consumers, to which he added, "Eventually everything will be a hybrid."
"There are some customers who like driving appliances, and we need to get better at that," said Press in seriousness, explaining that Chrysler will need products that appeal to the most practically-minded people in the same way as the company's SRT line appeals to enthusiasts. -end
Jim should know appliances having been at Toyota for a long time. :P
On the EPA fuel economy website the 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD, of which I own one, averages 22.9 MPG while the 2005 V-6 with automatic averages 14.9 MPG. Locally 87 octane runs about 2.739 and that gives 18.4 cents/mile driven. ULSD is 2.999 or 13.1 cents/mile driven. For my diesel Jeep to be as costly to drive as the V-6 Jeep, diesel fuel would have to cost about 4.229/gallon. So with a 5.4 cent/mile advantage with diesel and driving 15,000 miles per year and fuel prices staying the same, that is $810 in your pocket. If you do not want that $810, I will gladly take it off your hands!!
(Jeep Liberty gasser 14.9 mpg vs diesel 22.9 mpg)
OR the Jeep Libery diesel gets 35% better fuel mileage
In two trips I took this summer, one to New York City and the other to New England, I got 29.9 MPG and 28.9 MPG respectively. I am certainly not crying about that considering that the V-6 version barely gets 20 MPG in comparable driving.
In local metro D.C. rush hour traffic I have been averaging 23.1 MPG.
I'll ask you because I think you'll know. It's easier to ask you than to wade through all the B/S to discover.
Are brand new E-320 Bluetecs and VW TDIs able to be purchased new in
Kallifornia or did the C A R B screw that idea up once again?
Also, remember that cartoon avatar that many were using?
It showed Dr. Diesel with his hair being blown off by the wind
generated by the power of some unshown diesel hotrod.
Do you know how to or where to find that character?
Daimler will not be able to sell their diesels (new) in any state that follows CARB rules until MY 2008. That is when the full blown Bluetec system will be in affect using urea (Bluetec) solution that is sprayed into the exhaust stream.
The same holds true for the MY 2008 VW cars. Since their engines are smaller, they handle the NOx problem differently.
However, you can still by most any diesel powered car that has at least 7501 miles on it in any CARB rules state. I have never understood why or how that particular number was arrived at. :confuse:
I know that of the 5 states that joined with CA in the new (imported) diesel ban (you can still and have always been able to buy diesel light trucks in ALL 50 states), in CA, I know for a fact one can find a few (back door) ways to register a new to used (7501 miles). The other states such as Conn, Maine, Mass, NY, RI, PENN, I will let other folks who live there or know (for sure)answer.
The last I have read, which would meet the 50 state "legal" definition, looks to be 2008.5 at the earliest, to more than likely MY 2009.
On finding the avatar, sorry, I haven't a clue.
The other killer is that public transport here not only stinks but is rather expensive to boot.
How they can come to the conclusion (which results in operative decisions) that ULSD used by the less than 3% of the passenger vehicle fleet is the enemy while RUG is not only more consumptive per gal, but has a higher ppm (30) of the emissions in question is at best disingenuous. Penn was involved for the longest time and is probably still involved in the production and distribution of coal and other fossilized fuel products and in days past steel with all the attending environmental issues. Los Angeles was once a producing oil field. I could go on and on.
My take is (that in CA anyway) a severe advantage goes to PRE 2009 diesel cars and trucks, slightly used vehicles (7501 miles) in the other 45 states "imported" into CA. (or the other carb states if they allow their reregistration and operation :shades:
As to airplane pollution, there are three major airports in or near the metro D.C. area, Dulles in VA, Baltimore-Washington International, just south of Baltimore and Reagan on the D.C. - VA border.
Next we have automakers like G.M. run by the likes of Bob (K)Lutz. His take on diesel as a solution and solving diesel emissions borders on the ridiculous. What he intends to charge for diesel power in vehicles also borders on the ridiculous. The engines and their emissions systems already exist and work very well, but for some reason (K)Lutz feels he and G.M. need to re-invent the wheel. Truly a leader who lacks any insight or foresight that matter.
(K)Lutz will push E85, decrease FE by > 20%, pollute more, and waste more resources in the process.
Free enterprise is truly amazing!!!!!
It now meets 50 states emssions.
It now meets 50 states emissions.
What is odd is that the car is not for sale but is only offered on a 2 year 24,000 mile lease. So for people who want to actually BUY one it's still not possible to buy a new diesel car in California. Sadly my State has the same stupid laws as California. But I won't buy a Merc anyway, too expensive. I'll wait for Honda to drop one in the Civic or the Fit.
My thoughts exactly.
Yeah my thought is they are pulling some sort of stunt, maybe it's to avoid buyers speculating and resell on Ebay or something? Either way it sounds like a bad deal when you can't actually buy a new car but have to lease it instead. I do recall the electric car issue, however I think it might be because of the new bluetec system. What if it's wonky and doesn't work, well you don't own the car so they just take it back. I still think it's a bad idea.
"Diesel auto arrives from Mercedes", Lease car first of its type allowed by state in nearly a decade,
by Matt Nauman
..."This is a bridge vehicle" (quote of a quote [my sic]) a Mercedes spokesman said.
(in reference to a soon coming 50 state next generation of Mercedes diesels that meet federal regulations as well as those of every state come on line.) It also confirmed what I said about VW offering a (50 state product) 2008 model in MY 2008.5. Most folks know that NORMALLY a new model year is introducted in the latter part of the year before. So a 2008.5 model year is a reference to an intro in say 1st/2nd quarter 2008.
according to autoweek, part of the reason for the 2-year lease is because the current diesel won't meet the emissions standards in 2 years and Benz will have a new diesel by that time.
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071015/FREE/71015006/-1/new- sletter01
Also note that only 100 vehicles will be available. At that number, I have to wonder why they are even bothering?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The price per gallon of Diesel fuel was consistantly twenty to fifty cents per gallon more than regular grade gasoline.
Not much economy there.
Essentially it is a model to model comparison. So until major factors like 50 mpg (diesel Jetta TDI ) to 30 mpg gasser (2.0, 1.8T premium unleaded, which by the way is par with #2 diesel) change, the ratio reflected in cost of fuel per mile driven is the key.
So just using the difference at this writing .30 cents (RUG 2.99 diesel 3.29)this is per mile driven RUG .09967 cents, diesel .0658 cents or .03387 cents/ 34% more expensive than diesel.
My .02 takes are they are not serious about fuel savings, as they are more serious about increasing the cost per mile driven for BOTH. So for example it would signal SERIOUS when say a gasser model of Jetta got 50 mpg as the diesel model got 50 mpg.
2009 BMW 335i, 2003 Corvette cnv. (RIP 2001 Jaguar XK8 cnv and 1985 MB 380SE [the best of the lot])
You know, sort of like Jay Leno having "one off" vehicles, i.e., FIRST 50 state legal diesel??? (actually my 2003 Jetta is a 50 state legal diesel, which is one reason why THAT MB would have hysterics premium/s?
My family of four plus 2 week full of baggage, all my automotive tools and various sorts of automotive liquid and parts took a very similar trip.
I wanted to be able to brag our 13 year older vw diesel (which was pointing heavenward because of the load) could still take a beating...what was I thinking?
Anyway, our trip started in Ottawa(Canada) and stopped by the same places: New Jersey, Maryland, Roanoke, back to New Jersey, then back to Ottawa.
Along the way, both my front wheel bearings started to hum and my power steering pump gave up. Nothing fatal yet...so we put up with the noise and the toughed it up with the steering til we got home.
Anyway 2125 miles total. My diesel cost? Only US$140.
This was summer, so gasoline was only about 20 cents cheaper than diesel which was around $2.80 then in the US. But 1st and last full tank diesels were in Canada equivalent to US$3.28/gallon.
I’m sure a top condition car with the more efficient TDI engine, plus purchasing ONLY lower US fuel prices would have posted much better results.
How about you? If you drove gasoline and think there isn't much savings I'd like to compare fuel costs...
How much fuel $$ did you spend?
I drove about 960 miles round trip and got 31.8 miles per gallon with my 2004 Honda Accord V6 A/T. That mpg figure was from the car's Navigation System's very accurate trip computer. I didn't keep a log of fuel costs. But figuring an average of about $2.60 per gallon of regular unleaded gasoline, I spent about $78.50.
Of course all mileages, gallons and dollars are U.S. How many mpg do you figure your VW achieves? I'm extremely happy with that 31.8 mpg while averaging about 75 mph. I felt naked without my radar detector in Virginia though.
http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/07/2009-honda-accord-diesel-to-hit-52-mpg/
WOW! Given the Accord will have more hp and torque than the VW Jetta this is great news! I have to click off to snooze ville to get 62 mpg on the 90 hp/155# ft of torque Jetta. I did do a leg @ between 70-75 mph on a very recent 2000 mile plus trip and got 59 mpg, but I was flirting with road hypnosis. I also have to keep it under 85 to get 52 mpg.
Given 960 miles and 2.60 RUG, .25 cents more or 2.85- diesel, with 32/52 mpg respectively, we are talking .08125/.0548076 cents per mile driven= .0264424 cents more or 33% less per mile driven for diesel? Fuel mileage is also 38% better? Yes this is only 25 dollars saved, but it would buy 8.77 gals and @ 52 mpg, another 456 miles. Imagine if they get serious and make the price of RUG par with diesel and vice versa?
At 75 mph, I would turn off the radar detector, so it will not be annoying! But in truth, it has been a long time since I experienced first hand if the Virginia State Troopers are quota driven.
The northern states see colder temperatures on a very regular basis.
JOHN
Honda's diesel does not use adblue.
VW's diesel for the Jetta does not use adblue.
Mitsubishi Lancer diesel is not expected to use adblue.
Notice how he pretended this diesel vehicle, which uses AdBlue, doesn't exist to avoid actually answering the question.
As for "50 state legal", it's just a fancy way of saying "just barely qualifies as clean enough". That Tier2-Bin5 emission rating is nothing to brag about.
JOHN
Don't need to brag, just comply with the law. But being as how you have been on these threads awhile- you knew that!
As for "50 state legal", it's just a fancy way of saying "just barely qualifies as clean enough". That Tier2-Bin5 emission rating is nothing to brag about.
Just like the Prius out on the open road with a little wind is nothing to brag about. There are other priorities in the auto world than emissions. If you are worried about adblue freezing you can buy a Mercedes diesel in MN without all that emissions crap.
Good to see you back in the fray.....
Ya might want to leave the snake oil sniping/hare krishna postings on the hybrid threads!?
You know what HAS happened? Virtually every hybrid which has been sold in LA has produced less pollution than the car it replaced.
That's a plus in the plus column by any measure.
Not that I (personally ) think this way; but YOUR enemy is other GASSERS, NOT diesels!!!!
So for example, if the Prius (hybrid) had a diesel (hybrid) model, fuel mileage would be better than it is now.
Europe has diesel Civics and we here have a host of Civic gasser variants including hybrid gassers and again the same is true, diesel Civics get better mpg than hybrid Civics. If the Civic had a diesel/hybrid Civic, it would get even better mpg. Some of it would be oxymoronic in that diesels have GOBS of low end torque already, so that duplication would have to obviously have to have a solution.