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Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories
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Hang around your local dealer on a Saturday and you will see that alot of folks don't care about their own car either...The really nice trade-ins are very rare.
Haha. Actually, I was generally pretty good. I have a heavy right foot, but I've never really been keen on launching cars off of curbs.
No joke -- I had been told by several of the employees that prior to when I had worked there, some of the drivers had converted a dirt mound into a quasi-launching ramp. Apparently, it had been common sport to launch cars at various speeds off of the dirt patch to see how airborne they could get.
People also do interesting things in rental cars. Without turning this into a bad-reminiscence thread, let's just say that I learned from my time there that vomiting is a lot more common than I had thought... :surprise:
Don't even need a snowstorm. I worked as a porter during high school. You should have seen some of the stuff we did, especially with the high performance cars.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I agree, and this further proves my point...
If people don't even take care of their own cars (that they must drive for 3-5 years), then how do you think they treat rental cars (that they only drive for 3-5 DAYS)!
My own - different story. I don't have to look so close - it's here to be used and if I break it, I will fix it or get a new item.
Even driving - for short-term rentals I definitely drive more carefully with rental car since I'm not used to it and am not interested in it's limits. It might change for longer-term rentals or on a nice stretch of empty road.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Personally, I would have no problem buying a vehicle from a reputable national agency (read Avis or Hertz) where they keep service records on all the vehicles.
I probably wouldn't buy one from Enterprise given the condition that I have received vehicles from them while renting.
relative newbie here... i'll be buying a new car in a few weeks...
i was always wondering how does one get a good deal on a car in demand...
if i walk into a dealership and say i want a car with certain specs and they say they don't have one, but they can "locate" one (at a different dealership), can we assume he has less margin, since he now has to buy it from a different dealership?
question is... can you get the best deal for cars that a dealer has in stock? how about ordering them to your specs? or "locating" from a different dealership?
i was also thinking of the following approach which is as follows...
i walk into a dealership and say i want a camry... how much over invoice is your price? i'll start with $300 over invoice and then work from there... hopefully we agree on an amount over invoice, then i choose from the cars he has in stock... done!!
think that's a good approach?
thanks for any insight...
Just remember that cars are like any other commodity, as demand increases so does price. If you are thinking of buying a hot car (like the current G6 convertible) then you won't get a good deal, expect sticker or more.
The first question I will ask is what car are you looking at?
Otherwise just read through the thread, do your homework and negotiate.
i was also thinking of the following approach which is as follows...
I would say start with some research to what the car is selling for (maybe look at Edmunds TMV). Don't ask the to negotiate a price that is something plus 'X' like invoice plus $300. Just simplify it by getting a price. Don't mention a price get them to offer a price and have them counter offer it at least once before making your counter offer.
Also never, never, ever negotiate over a possible car. In other words find the car and negotiate over that car. Never negotiate a price then find the car.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Right now is an excellent time to look for a car, there are deals galore out there as dealers try to clear out their inventory to get ready for the new 07's.
If you live in a major area where there are a lot of dealerships, you might want to ask around about dealership reputation. I've found that eliminates some of the chaff right from the beginning and makes the whole process easier, to go someplace that has a good local reputation.
Personally, I'd stay away from anyplace that has a second sticker showing ADM (Additional Dealer Markup), because I don't like the ethics of it. Others have said they just ignore that second sticker. Do whatever makes you comfortable, just don't take that ADM as gospel in any way.
Definitely look up the TMV (True Market Value) here on Edmunds. Since anything in print is going to be at least a little behind the true market, and since right now dealers are beginning to discount their '06 cars (with some exceptions, like the G6 convertible, as mentioned, or the new Volvo C70), you should try to shoot for a price somewhat below Edmunds's TMV.
If you're looking for a Camry, you might well be able to buy at invoice or even below. And yes, usually you get the best deal by buying from a dealer's stock. Camrys are not that hard to find, you're not looking for a needle in a haystack here.
If you can be a little flexible on color, that might help. Get some idea of what options you absolutely must have, and what you definitely do not want, and what things could go either way.
i was also thinking of the following approach which is as follows...
i walk into a dealership and say i want a camry... how much over invoice is your price? i'll start with $300 over invoice and then work from there... hopefully we agree on an amount over invoice, then i choose from the cars he has in stock... done!!
I would say this is a little backwards. I'd walk in (on a weekday, if at all possible) and say "I am looking for a Camry SLE in xxx color with xxxx options. Do you have one I could test-drive?"
If no, thanks and leave. If yes, drive and see if you like.
Rinse and repeat for as many cars as you're considering.
Some people advise never buying on the same day you test-drive. I've done both (bought immediately and bought a couple days later, after test-driving competing cars). Whether it makes any difference to your deal really depends on how prepared you are with knowing market conditions for that particular car. Don't buy on impulse; that's a sure way to get hosed.
After the test-drive, then start talking price. Even if they claim the sticker or whatever discount is the best they can do, offer a lower price and ask that the salesperson take it to the manager. Worst that can happen is the manager says no; best that can happen is you might save yourself a few hundred or even a couple thousand more, depending.
If you have to finance, talk to your credit union or bank first and see what rate you'd qualify for; if you have a credit union and good credit, you'll probably do a lot better than the dealer's financing.
And finally, NEVER negotiate on the basis of monthly payments. Negotiate the total price of the car. Payments will shake out how they will if the total price is ok. Roughly speaking, figure $200 or a bit less per every $10,000 financed, for a five year loan.
Good luck and have fun!
Exactly what kind of car do you want?
Exactly how much are you willing to pay for it?
Until you have exact answers to these two questions, don't start making a deal with a sales person. Only go to the dealer to gather info about the cars you are considering.
You generally DON'T. When a model is "hot", most dealers have the attitude that if **YOU** don't want to pay their price, there are three people in line waiting for the vehicle.
When the Odysseys were the "hot" vehicle, you could go to four Honda dealerships and find nearly identical prices, all around MSRP. On the other hand, the price most ordinary vehicles varied from dealership to dealership.
i really don't know what car i'm going to get yet, but have a few in mind and have about 4 weeks to finalize...
i'm thinking of the 07 camry xle v6, which i saw today, but was unimpressed... also perhaps the 07 lexus es, which from what i'm hearing isn't going to be discounted anytime in the near future...
others i'm considering are the passat, rdx (if it comes out in time), mazda cx7...
i'm hearing people paying just $250 over invoice... that'd be nice... i guess about $500 over invoice would be acceptable...
thanks again...
You might want to look at some competing vehicles too. Like the Fusion/Milan, Accord, Sonata, Altima and Mazda 6. Maybe one of those would impress you more. If you're looking for a good deal you really have to look at all competing vehicles.
I would pass n the Lexus and Passat.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
When looking at a car do not just look at discount and price over invoice, look at the overall value. For example, the ES is not being discounted right now, but think about the resale in 4 years (Lexus has a stellar resale value) Anything that has rebates is going to drop like a rock resale wise. Also right now look a fuel economy. A6 gets 29 on highway with 255 horsepower.
Passat has the sweet FSI with great fuel economy too.
But I have been eying the fusion myself. But again resale nightmare.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Just remember that overall value does not always equal better resale value. I think resale value is over emphasized by many people. Many times the less expensive car with a lower resale value is the better value simply because with the other car the higher resale value doesn't cover the extra cost.
Secondly a higher resale value is meaningless if the car doesn't fit your needs or you simply just don't like it.
Finaly more and more people are keeping there cars longer which makes resale value much less important. I for one plan on driving cars until the wheels fall off. So for me I am more concerned with the cars ability to get high miles than the resale value 3 years down the line.
Passat has the sweet FSI with great fuel economy too.
Yeah but the Passat is a Peoples Car that is currently not enjoying the best in reliability.
But I have been eying the fusion myself. But again resale nightmare.
Well first thing is if you really enjoy the car then don't pay much attention to resale especially if you will keep it for a while. Secondly its a new car and the potential resale value at best is an estimate.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2018 430i Gran Coupe
The problem I'm having is that even if they come down to my price, I'm not sure if I'd be buying the car because "I won" or even if it's the right car for me. If a less loaded, less expensive car (no sun roof, no leather seats) might not be a better deal.
I guess what I'm trying to fight is the feeling of "I win" associated with this particular car, even if they match my price. That I've invested so much energy in the negotiation and that model, that I'm overlooking the better deal I can get elsewhere.
Any thoughts on this situation?
My advice, give things a rest for a week and then look at the less expensive alternatives you mentioned.
Anyway, it's been a couple weeks already, and the price difference per month is about $50.
As it turns out, the dealer said, again "Let me talk with my manager" and asked me to wait until Friday. I can do that, but I'm also going to call the other dealership and make sure they still have the other car in stock.
But the whole "negotiating to win" scenario is what made ebay so successful. I can't be the only one to experience it, and I'm wondering how others fight it in general.
Now, what is it you want? Do you want a sunroof? Do you want leather? Will those options make you happier with the car?
In short, decide what it is EXACTLY you want (including models/brand/options).
Once you've got that down, you can get info here at Edmunds to see what the TMV (Total Market Value) is in your region. There's your baseline...with invoice, retail and what the average selling price is for the car and options you want in your general area. The goal here is to get somewhere between invoice and TMV, pricewise.
Decide on a day or weekend you are going to buy THAT EXACT CAR. Call the dealerships in your area to see if they have that car. Make an appointment to see THAT CAR. Then, make the offer you're comfortable with. Be prepared to buy that car if your offer is accepted. Be prepared to walk away if they don't.
Wait....you're not done yet. Make sure you have financing set up before you go to the dealership with your bank, S&L, etc if you're financing. If the dealership can beat your financing, take the dealership's offer (note.....they will try to beat it).
If you want to make certain you are getting a good deal, shop a couple of dealerships that are selling the same car. See what they are offering.
I wouldn't get caught up in driving all over town trying to save $50. You'll just frustrate yourself.
Tell the dealership you're buying TODAY, if they accept your offer.
Good luck and let us know how things turn out.
Always get the dealer to offer you the car at a particular price. Then get them to counter that offer at least once before you counter offer. As a buyer you want to create a situation where there is an established ceiling but no established floor in the sales price.
Tell the dealership you're buying TODAY, if they accept your offer.
Wrong, wrong, wrong a thousand times wrong. First off you want them to be making the offer, you want them to be bidding for you as a customer. Secondly you never want to commit yourself to something that has yet to exist and that you haven't negotiated for.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The '06 version of this car, TMV including rebate is $15.8k + TTL. I'm trying to get the '05 for $15k out the door, I've got the financing arranged, and I'd just head over there and write them two checks (one from me, one from my finance company). I can afford it; but I can also afford the non-loaded '06 version which would be approximately $700 less overall.
As I've said, after doing all this negotiation, my big fear is that I'll take the car just because I "won" the negotiation. I'm trying to figure out how to seperate feelings from this process. It's this whole "feeling like you've won" that causes people to spend large amounts of money on ebay for things they don't really need, and is what advertising really is all about.
But thanks for the advice, everyone.
It's important to bear in mind that car prices vary A LOT. Some people will pay sticker for a car that I could buy at or near invoice. Unless the car is exceptionally hot, I would focus on paying a price close to invoice, less incentives and rebates (whether payable to the dealer or the customer). That logic won't work with a Prius, but your average car is going to be available in the price range IF you negotiate effectively.
As I've said, after doing all this negotiation, my big fear is that I'll take the car just because I "won" the negotiation.
That's limited information with which to judge your position, but I'd say that either (a) you have a tendency to have buyer's remorse, regardless of the deal or (b) you are onto something, and need to listen to your gut. You should not be whipping yourself into a version of auction fever, and trying to buy something as it if it would be a "win." Buying something does not constitute a "win", it's just a matter of spending money.
I would consider the fact that you have walked and prolonged your negotiation over an extended period to be a negative for your side of the table. At this point, the dealer probably figures that he has you, it's just a matter of waiting until you pay more. At this point, you have probably expressed far too much interest to get a bottom-dollar deal from this particular seller.
I'd go back and read some of the earlier postings on this thread in respect to negotiation. Basic bullet points to keep in mind:
-Your negotiation style and timing will impact the price in most cases, there is no single market price. Most nameplates are avaiable in sufficient quantities to put near-invoice or at-invoice prices within your reach.
-Avoid making the first, or even the second offer
-Unless you are absolutely intimidated by the negotiation process, don't offer your best and final offer up front. Leave room to haggle...
-...but don't lowball to such a ridiculous extent that your counteroffers increase by leaps and bounds. The increments by which you increase your counters should be decreasing over each successive round, and a super lowball actually creates the opposite effect that you intended by communicating to the seller that you are willing to pay a lot (particularly when your counters escalate thereafter.)
-Don't walk away until you've passed the seller's "point of no return", i.e. the point at which he can taste your cash and desperately wants to close you.
-Once you walk away, don't return unless the seller makes the first move to drag you back. Otherwise, you just look like a paper tiger and have blown your credibility.
Enjoy your shopping.
A few things I see wrong here. First you should never give the first offer, let them bid for your business. Secondly if you walk out stay out, never return. Once you do come back you are giving the dealer more power over you. Of course that is you just left ending negotiations, now if you needed to leave for whatever reason and just suspended negotiations (like saying "I have to discuss this with my spouse") then thats another story. But if its a take it or leave it, they didn't take it so you left then you shouldn't return. Finally since you gave them your upper limit price you will be paying close to it, if not that price. If your willing to pay X amount and told them why should they go lower?
This is a perfect example of how not to negotiate. You gave your price first and as a good negotiator the dealer refused it and balked at doing anything else. They waited for you to start bidding yourself up, they didn't even counter offer you started to bid your price up. They are getting you to come up in price without committing to anything.
My advice is find another dealer and get them to do what you did. That means get them to mention a price first and hesitate enough to get them to bid themselves down.
If you want the '05 and they're the only ones who has one left then you buried yourself.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Good luck, and be sure to let us know how you did.
Again, I differ with the implication of this, because it implies that good negotiation is extremely difficult and that a good result is out of reach of your typical buyer. I'd submit that for the vast majority of people, a little guidance and research will allow you to do about as well as would an exceptional negotiator.
I hate to use anecdotes as evidence, but I think of a couple of people whom I know personally whom I helped recently with their negotiations, and they both did far better than they had hoped. Minimal coaching and feedback produced very good results for both of them (in this case, both were female and were extremely inexperienced with negotiating), which shaved large amounts from purchase prices and gained them refunds that they otherwise would have not gained.
A little bit of study will produce great rewards that will create benefit not just with your car purchase but in other aspects of your life, both professional and personal. Negotiation skills will generate some of the highest rates of return that you could hope to get on any investment.
2) From your experience, have you been successful getting the car dealer to accept a price less than your maximum price?
I would appreciate it if you could answer each question with a Yes or a No.
Yes and no. You should have a pretty good ideal what your maximum price will be. But you should be a little flexible in that. Are you going to walk away simply because your max price is 17,500 and the lowest they can go is 17,525?
Plus you have to be able to adjust your price if they throw in something to "Sweeten" The deal. Such as free oil changes or something else.
2) From your experience, have you been successful getting the car dealer to accept a price less than your maximum price?
Yes.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Absolutely, you can't have a disciplined approach without doing this. But you do need to allow for the (slight) possibility that you may have missed something or otherwise need to adjust to new information.
2) From your experience, have you been successful getting the car dealer to accept a price less than your maximum price?
Yes. My last deal came in a few hundred less than I had thought that I might have needed to pay. As I've noted before, you can only guess what the minimum acceptable price may be, but until you haggle, you don't really know for sure.
it's great that you got them to accept a price lower than your pre-determined maximum.
Once we get the dealer down to our pre-determined maximum, most of us would jump on the deal.
How much lower than your maximum did you get them to go?
Did you do a lot of research to determine the maximum price you were willing to pay?
Never jump on a deal once it goes below a set amount. You might be able to get more out of it.
How much lower than your maximum did you get them to go?
Quite a bit I would say, the deal actually came in under what I thought the low point would be.
Did you do a lot of research to determine the maximum price you were willing to pay?
Define a lot, it would be hard to say just how much I did as I am always looking at whats out there and checking out information.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I don't know a better way to dertermine the maximum amount that I would be willing to pay.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You are either committed or you are not. If you are, then manke your COMMITTED offer. If not, walk away.
I guess I'll NEVER understand the time and effort some people will expand on the purchase of a car.
But...that's me. We are all different!
I bet a good sales person, or a certain type of sales person, can do wonders with a guy like Tsgeisel.
I've been looking around for a pickup and have been keeping my eye on one at a local dealer. It's been around since January(?) and the price has dropped from 7K down to 5K (as of their last ad). The truck had been sitting in the same spot for a long time, but recently since the price drop it's been moved around a bit (test drives?). The specs are as follows (this is in NW NJ (Morris County)):
2000 Dakota club cab, V6, 2 WD, gray, cloth int, 80k miles, manual, spray on bed liner. Tires okay, small nicks & scratchs (what 6 yr old truck doesn't),p-lcks, p-win, cruise, tilt, aftermarket am/fm cassette.
I would prefer an automatic, but don't think I can find one for a good price. I still have to go test ride it, check out the carfax.
My budget is tight and the asking price, 4,999, is a bit above what I feel comfortable paying. Based on the fact this truck has been sitting on their lot a looong time, how flexible might they be? Should I deal the price of the truck or an OTD price? It's going to be a cash deal w/ no trade (or should I keep that to myself until we finalize a price).
Also, I'v been focusing on the Dakota club cabs because they are the only mid-size w/ a rear bench. I figured in a pinch I can get the kids (3) in the back for at least short trips. But, due to lack of inventory in my price range, I'm starting to reevaluate my priorities.
Thanks for any and all advice
Peeter
What are the Kelley Blue Book and Edmunds wholesale prices? (Be sure to adjust for mileage, options/ lack thereof, and condition.) Without knowing these, it's hard to judge the asking price.
You can bet that the dealer paid a fair bit less than wholesale for it. I probably wouldn't pay much above that, and would probably shoot for paying something below that.
I would try for the OTD price but make sure that includes everything for you to own the truck outright. Doing that eliminates them selling the truck for $250 less but charging you $250 more for doc fees.
It's going to be a cash deal w/ no trade (or should I keep that to myself until we finalize a price).
If they ask about a trade-in be honest and tell them no. If they ask about financing tell them you intend o pay cash but would be willing to finance through them if its worth your while. In other words don't volunteer the information but don't lie if asked and leave options open.
Since (as far as I am concerned) the jury is still out on carfax I would try to take it to a mechanic you trust for them to give it a once over.
But, due to lack of inventory in my price range, I'm starting to reevaluate my priorities.
I don't care what position someone is in they should always be re-evaluating their circumstances.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I picture us standing around the car that has a big bold MSRP right on the sticker. Do I need to ask the price? Do we even discuss price before going inside? When you make your first offer, how do you know if it's reasonable and not too low? I was thinking of starting with $500 below invoice.
I think that I've posted this before, but this link might help get you started: "Basic Principles Make You a Smarter Negotiator"
My price out the door, TTL included is $15k even (I like round numbers). So I'm about $3700 under TMV price for the '06 equivilant, and even if I could have negotiated lower, I probably couldn't have gone *that much* lower - at least not in a short time-frame.
Color me satisfied, and mark this as a testimony to the power of "no".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
To turn this into a case study for everyone else, TMV is still not terribly relevant, it's only an average, i.e. the price that the "C" student pays. Add to this that the cost of a 2006 is going to likely be higher than the previous model year, and it makes it less important still.
Since an Elantra is not a fast mover, a price in the neighborhood of invoice, less rebate, would be a decent target. Add the fact that there is probably a significant additional incentive paid to the dealer to move 2005's at this point, and that might put you at a place well south of invoice (possibly $2k or so, it's hard to tell without further research and some guesswork), less incentives, as a good target price.
I hope that helps.
Or, the dealer makes the first offer and says "just look at the MSRP sticker....that's what we're asking".
You're trying to make the deal more complicated than it needs to be.
If anyone has done their homework, the deal should be quick, painless, and good for both sides.
BTW....my son hasn't had to have the car back for ANY warranty work. It's not a fancy car, but it's certainly reliable and well built. He's got about 45K miles on the car now and just had to replace the tires.
Again, congrats.
I didn't read that anywhere in the response.
You're trying to make the deal more complicated than it needs to be.
I see the opposite -- you make the process of negotiation seem more daunting than it is. By making the first offer, you are setting yourself up to pay too much.
If anyone has done their homework, the deal should be quick, painless, and good for both sides.
I agree that a buyer should do his homework, and I agree that good negotiation is painless. However, by making it clear to the seller that you are prioritizing speed, you are setting yourself up to pay too much, because you have identified a constraint that will make it easier to get you to pay more than you would have otherwise needed to -- the impulse to "get it over with" will lock you into a higher price, because your reluctance to leave or continue shopping is obvious and will be used against you.
And on a car purchase, I couldn't care less if it's "good" for the dealership. I will allow the dealership to determine its level of happiness or lack thereof, its pleasure is not my problem. My only concern is whether they will take my low price deal.