I only wonder where are the manufacturers - they must be getting comlaints from customers all the time. Is it that they don't care, or they think it's all made up, or they feel powerless to change it.
I have seen some terrible dealers over the years...the kind that would screw their own grandma....but if they sell enough cars the mfg almost always looks the other way.
Business is a game -- you can either work the rulebook to your favor, or fight against the rules even though you are powerless to change them. No reason to hate things as they are when you can get what you want very easily by working them to your benefit, and have a few laughs in the process.
Except that this implies that
1) You will always have to deal with a sleazy salesperson and 2) There is no other choice
If these were true then yes your zen approach is the best way. The fact is that this is not always true and you do have the right to expect a certain amount of respect as someone who is going to put done a ton of cash for a purchase. The only way I can see a buyer as not having a choice is if there is no other dealer for miles, but even then you are not locked to a certain sales person at that dealer, but you are locked to the management of course.
To me your approach sounds like boating on a wild river or rough seas and trying to say that it's just a matter of not fighting the current but working with the wind and waves to make the boat move, all the while ignoring that sometimes it's best to leave the boat on the dock and not try to sail in a hurricane. If you're caught in the storm then yes I can see wisdom in not trying to fight the elements but when buying a car you are not trapped like out on the open seas.
If I can't have a resonable conversation with a manager and convince them that I deserve to not be treated poorly as a buyer (let alone a fellow human being) then I would need to give serious consideration to the idea of owning my own car and captialism in general. It's not like I'm showing up twice a week to buy groceries and demanding the bag boy smile and kiss my butt ... but if a car dealership can't see a reason to treat me decently when I'm probably only going to show up every few years with a big bag of money then there's a serious problem with them not me. It's fine to try and sell me stuff, and talk my ear off, and give me reasons to consider things like extended warranty ... but if you think it's ok to try and trick, insult, abuse, or berate me you're either a pretty stupid salesperson in my opinion or the only one selling cars for a 500 mile radius.
The fact is that this is not always true and you do have the right to expect a certain amount of respect as someone who is going to put done a ton of cash for a purchase.
Actually, it is always true. Sometimes they are rude, other times they are polite (and in the modern era, they do tend to be more courteous...at least to your face), but the agenda is always the same -- to earn as much money as possible.
I simply don't care whether or not they are "nice", "respectful", "professional" or whatever, who cares what they think? I just want the best price.
If you want to buy based upon a "relationship", then you will most likely pay a premium, and I don't think this is a worthwhile thing to price into the deal, and it certainly isn't worth paying extra for. I'd rather keep the money, I'm buying the car, not a drinking buddy.
So you are implying that you will get a better deal from someone who treats you like crap? That is pretty twisted. So if I treat you unprofessionaly, or just as a number rather than earn you as a present or future client there is a premium for that???? I have several anologies that are not appropriate here......
I generally agree that in semi-commodity item, such as cars (especially mid-trimmed volume vehicles), price is really the leading and decisive factor of a transaction. However, there are some other minor considerations that should not be entirely dismissed.
Assuming that there is such a thing as post-sale service (warranty claim handling), it may be quantified, in my opinion. I may leave $100-200 more if I'm convinced it will buy me a "better treatment", whatever it means, at the dealer's garage (it is really imaterial if that feeling is true or not). Same with convenience, and "feel good" factors - going to a place that is closer and "friendlier" may be worth a few dollars, too. It is subjective how much and may be small factor for you, but some other people may value them more. I see (perhaps in heat of discussion) get sometimes a bit resentful for even a mentioning of "other than price" factors in a transaction, which I think is a bit overreaching. Your point is well made and you should let others breath, too.
Availability is another important factor, especially with upscale brands, or even regular ones where one may be just dying to get a particular configuration. I see no reason to get a green sedan with auto if I want a red wagon with manual, even if the former is thousands below invoice and the latter is at retail. I just would not be happy - it's not a deal if you get not what you want.
Rare vehicle configuration is probably the trickiest of all - if in entire state Joe's Audi has the only one I want, it becomes essentially a game of chicken. I may be good at hiding my lust, but I have to consider they may call my bluff. They may act like this is such a gem, so there is no way they let it go below retail, but they have to consider I may walk away and the next customer for it may show up in six months. It is all who bliks first then. and who will convince whom that the other one needs them more (did I just looped myself in pronouns ). They are better trained, but it's ultimately my money.
As I said - I agree with you - price is the king, but there are "adjustment factors" that may get someone to willingly leave money on the table.
I simply don't care whether or not they are "nice", "respectful", "professional" or whatever, who cares what they think? I just want the best price.
If you want to buy based upon a "relationship", then you will most likely pay a premium, and I don't think this is a worthwhile thing to price into the deal, and it certainly isn't worth paying extra for. I'd rather keep the money, I'm buying the car, not a drinking buddy.
Socal, in many ways we're on the same page, but I don't think you necessarily pay a premium if you want to buy based upon a "relationship." I was very satisfied with my recent deal, both from the price and the professionalism standpoint. I think I got a fantastic price, and no one has come along to say anything differently. And the salesman, the sales manager, and the finance guy also treated me professionally and courteously. I was in the dealership again this afternoon (we took the Max in to have it thoroughly cleaned and detailed), and I had a pleasant chat with the sales man and the manager again while waiting for the Max.
While the price of course was negotiated, that didn't mean we had an unpleasantly adverserial relationship. I want more than just the best price. I also want professional people who respect their customers, who try to cultivate long-term relationships. It benefits everyone in the long run.
So you are implying that you will get a better deal from someone who treats you like crap?
Come now, you know that's not what I'm saying. I'm actually restating your mantra in my own terms -- you believe that by providing "superior service", "value" or whatever you'd like to call it that customers should be willing to pay you extra money. Call it what you will, but you are expecting us to pay a "niceness premium."
But let's look at it another way: since you've noted that salespeople don't like "grinders", you've already expressed your inherent dislike for the rock bottom price buyer. Therefore, unless you aren't all that good at hiding your feelings in front of the client, then it's a fair guess that the low price buyer isn't going to given treatment that is quite as nice as would the person who pays more. Accordingly, I would expect that I'm going to lose some of the happy/nice treatment from the salespeople that I would have gotten had I paid more, even if I'm polite in the process.
Is that dealer niceness going to be worth hundreds or thousands of my dollars? No way, I'll take the money.
While the price of course was negotiated, that didn't mean we had an unpleasantly adverserial relationship.
I feel very strongly that from a buyer's standpoint, we should generally be polite and courteous. Although it can sometimes make sense to use showboating (not genuine anger) as a gambit, I reserve it for rare occasions, and use it strictly as a tactic.
My point has been that the salespeople will generally not be that happy with you if you pay bottom dollar, no matter how nice, professional or polite that you happen to be. This is ultimately a numbers game, and if the number is exceedingly low, the seller is likely to resent it to some degree, because s/he is always competing for more.
And I really don't care. If he wants to love me to death for paying invoice or below, that's fine, but it's not mandatory. In a car deal, the price is vastly more important than the relationship, and while I'll take the relationship as a free option, I won't be paying a dime to get it.
You are exactly right that the "system is easily tamed" if buyers knows what they is doing.
Of course, most of us don't have the skill to get the dealer to act exactly the way we want them to, but at least we can make car buying a very enjoyable experience.
Of course, most of us don't have the skill to get the dealer to act exactly the way we want them to
I think that this is exactly the problem. In all areas of life, trying to control or dominate people is just time-consuming, tedious and wholly unnecessary, so why bother trying? Car buying is a very predictable game with tried-and-true methods being applied consistently across the board, so going with the flow and matching the other party move for move should produce optimal results.
I simply don't care whether or not they are "nice", "respectful", "professional" or whatever, who cares what they think? I just want the best price.
I still find it interesting that it's ok for someone, who you are buying a product from, can treat you poorly and it doesn't affect you. I don't see a difference between buying a car and buying a stick of gum in that I don't want either seller to treat me poorly. If he does, I take my business elsewhere. But my expectations are also different in that the more I'm paying the more I expect.
If you want to buy based upon a "relationship", then you will most likely pay a premium, and I don't think this is a worthwhile thing to price into the deal, and it certainly isn't worth paying extra for. I'd rather keep the money, I'm buying the car, not a drinking buddy.
Who said anything about a relationship? Again, if I dine out at an expensive restaurant I'm not looking for the waiter to be my pal, but I do expect him to treat me nice. Same goes for an expensive pair of shoes, a suit, or maybe a diamond necklace.
It has nothing to do with relationship building. It's about common decency and respect. Over the past few days I've read about managers adding $3500 charges and trying to slip them buy and salesman screaming and storming off refusing to talk to customers. This is not treating a fellow human being with even the base amount of respect that is owed.
Bottom line is that there are other ways to try and make sales that don't involve being a total jerk. The idea that my price is going to change because a guy yells at me is insane. But it's very likely I will take my business elsewhere if the guy does yell at me. A salesman can try an cheat or bully his way to make a few extra hundred but he runs the risk of losing it all if he does so. I suppose it depends on whether you want to gamble or not.
Could I get save money by compromising my morals and using the same ugly tactics that salesman use on me in reverse? Maybe, but the price isn't worth it to me. The ugly salesman of the world can live with their ways if they want to, but I don't have to change my ways just to buy a car.
Sadly the type of dealerships we all would like to patronize are few and far between. The auto industry is a powerful(money) and influencial machine...and would be very difficult to clean up.
My frustration starts with visiting 3 Chevy dealers today to purchase a new Silverado for my new business. I'm looking for that relationship you were all talking about because I'll need a couple delivery trucks, as well as a 14' box truck, and a stake bed down the road. I contacted the Internet/Fleet Manager online at all three dealerships, made an appointment to see them all today. I negotiated a good price at invoice at all three dealerships. Where it took a negative turn was on a trade in of my 2003 Honda Accord EX V6 with about 14,000 miles. KBB has a book of $17,500, and Edmunds has it at about $17,400. I was offered about $13,900. I told the salesperson why don't you guys huddle up and try to get us closer together by offering a higher trade in or a lower price for the truck. Then the sales manager came in and tried to impress his young protege by being rude, condescending, and argumentative. It turned into a debate. He told me he couldn't offer me anymore on a trade because they have to buy their vehicles at auction prices so that is what they will give on a trade. So I asked him what happened to KBB or Edmunds trade in value? He said they only go by auction values now. So I said maybe I should buy my vehicles at auctions now too. I tried to keep my composure by asking them to consider keeping the door open if they change their mind and want to sell a truck, but he said no that they were selling at cost and could not afford to give me any more on my trade. I asked him about his dealer hold backs they might have more wiggle room but he was not interested. He actually said to me "why is it everybody wants you to make it up on the next guy" Didn't say that but that does tell me that he has had this conversation many times. I said we have nothing more to talk about. So we walked! They passed on several hundred thousand dollars of future business as well as service work (which I had all my previous Chevys serviced there). Ironically I could have paid for the truck and sold my car myself, but what has happened to full service dealerships? What has happened to KBB value? The frustrating thing was they just didn't care. This story does have a happy ending though, my daughter came to visit later today, as we were telling her this story she decided she wanted to buy the car herself. I'd rather give her a great deal on a great car than the money grubbing ba@#%&ds at the dealership. Now that we don't have a trade in we are working with another dealership on a Silverado at below invoice. But not this dealer that I had all the problems. I will never go back. They lost a customer for life.
I still find it interesting that it's ok for someone, who you are buying a product from, can treat you poorly and it doesn't affect you.
I don't think that you follow the point here, we are approaching this from entirely different angles.
You are going into this in a reactive mode -- SalesPersonA does something, and you respond by reacting to it. You are highly concerned with receiving "respectful" treatment, and will opt to continue with the transaction or not based upon whether you perceive that the other party has paid his respects. Your inclination is to get huffy and upset because the car salesman behaved like a car salesman.
My perspective is entirely different. The sales process is a game, designed by the sellers, a byproduct of how profits are created in car sales. (Car sales involve many moving parts, often with several transactions that occur simultaneously -- purchase, trade, financing, add-ons, incentive payments, etc. -- so the dealer is highly motivated to find profit from all of these sources.) So I see why they do it, and it's helpful to know what motivates them, because it helps me with my deal.
I don't need the car salesman's love, respect, comaraderie or whatever, it never even crosses my mind whether I am being "respected" or not. It's just business, it's nothing personal, and his attitudes are entirely meaningless to me, except as it relates to crafting tactics for cutting my deal.
For me, it's all about the deal, and the sales team's behavior is just window dressing. The amount of profit that various buyers leave on the table varies so much that I see this as an opportunity to take a lot of that potential profit for myself in the form of a lower purchase price, so that's my focus.
The people who manage to combine happiness with good deal terms are those who see the game for what it is, and resolve to have fun with it -- there's no need to drive all over town and get upset if your priorities are in the right place. If you really want respect, that needs to come from within.
In my experience with trade-ins, if the dealer has other comparable vehicles, you won't get what it's worth. But $13900 does seem awful low. I did a quick search on autotrader.com and nothing comparable to yours under $20K. . But don't take it personal just because the dealer didn't want your car.
It's hard not to take it personal. Not because of the low trade, but for the poor professional attitude in which they treated my wife and I. I'm in business myself. I treat my customers the way I would want to be treated. That philosophy has served me well for years. We didn't create the car buying experience the dealerships did. It appears they want to change their attitude. You would think that with all the information available to consumers to research on the internet pricing, reviews, recalls, etc the dealerships would adapt a kinder gentler approach instead of the crusty one they seem to be embracing.
You would think that with all the information available to consumers to research on the internet pricing, reviews, recalls, etc the dealerships would adapt a kinder gentler approach instead of the crusty one they seem to be embracing.
Again, I attribute this to a couple of basic factors:
-The salespeople are on commission. That makes it a highly competitive environment -- the salesman isn't just competing with other dealerships, but also salesmen in his own store. Dog eat dog attitude + hunger for commissions = a weird variant on customer service.
-Profits are made from a lot of sources, not just one. The skilled dealership manages to find ways to juggle profit throughout the transaction, including the purchase, trade, financing, and add-ons. The ability to pull profits by hiding one number behind another encourages the dealership to use manipulation and sleight-of-hand to take its cash from as many places as possible.
I wouldn't take it personally, it's just business. If you know the value of your trade-in, I'd sell it myself.
And I would tend to avoid shopping with a partner or spouse, unless you have a game plan. The dealer will often attempt to pit you against another and to attack whoever appears to be the "bad cop" in your relationship, so be on the alert for that effort.
Maybe it's just me. In my recent foray, which involved about a year of researching various cars and waiting for the C70 to be available, when it came time to test drive I visited three stores: Volvo, Nissan, and Toyota. With Volvo and Toyota I made an appointment through e-mail contact. I had been in touch with the Volvo dealer for about a year; the Toyota guy was the "internet manager" who responded to an e-mail question. Nissan was the place where we had our current car serviced for several years. Salesman just happened to be on the floor the day I took the Max in for an oil change; I'd never met him before. One salesguy at the Nissan shop paid no attention to me; this younger fellow was the one who came over after he noticed me looking carefully at the Z on the showroom floor.
I was treated very well at all three stores. All three salesmen were professional, showed me the features of the respective cars, and gave me a test-drive long enough to see if I was interested further. None of them were high-pressure at all. None of them said "what would it take to get you into this car today?" I told all of them that I was test-driving a few different convertibles and would be in touch.
Who knows if the business has changed, or if it was the nature of the cars I was looking at, or what, but all the salesmen seemed like reasonable, professional, knowledgeable people. Car-buying doesn't have to mean getting into a duel to the death, grind 'em down, drive everybody crazy type situation. I found the whole experience pleasant and fun. And fast - from first test drive to car in my garage was only 3 days.
I don't need the car salesman's love, respect, comaraderie or whatever.
I don't think anyone is saying they want the salemans "love". I know I don't. Most salemen act professionally, in that they don't make condesending or rude remarks to a customer, raise their voice in anger,or try to sneak in $3,500 of unwanted junk into a contract. But, there are many that do.
There is a line that shouldn't be crossed by a salesperson. Each individual buyer is different in that they have tolerance for only so much....before they would walk. You apparently have a high tolerance for salesmen abuse. Though I doubt you rarely get much considering your apparent proficiency. That's fine and it works for you...but it doesn't work for everyone.Why is Kirstie allowed to make a purchase based on her own personal needs and wants, but pretzelb isn't?
But, I think that even you have a point that you would walk socal4. i.e A salesman getting in your face, yelling spit at you that he has a wife and kids to feed and that you are grinding him into the poorhouse? i.e "You're an idiot if you think we're gonna sell it for that!" "Did you just get out of the mental house? Because you're freaking crazy if you think I'm gonna lose money on this deal". Extreme examples I know, but how would you counter? Stand there and smile, redirect the conversation to another area? But, the rude, condescending and personal remarks continue. Are you still gonna stay and go for "the deal"?
No it hasn't changed, there have always been professional dealerships and the will always be sleazy one. As Al Stewart once wrote: "The more it changes, the more it stays the same And the hand just re-arranges the players in the game".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A salesman getting in your face, yelling spit at you that he has a wife and kids to feed and that you are grinding him into the poorhouse? i.e "You're an idiot if you think we're gonna sell it for that!" "Did you just get out of the mental house? Because you're freaking crazy if you think I'm gonna lose money on this deal".
Sounds like you've been with me before, you're taking me down Memory Lane! I've actually experienced examples of some of what you've described, such as the sales manager laughing in my face derisively or another one blowing his top (a gambit in each case, I'm sure).
Honestly, anything short of physical violence or threats of violence doesn't bother me at all, it can be a fairly crude game, even if it really has toned down from years ago. A well-executed gambit is actually fun to watch (just so long as you don't fall for it.)
I think the point here is that each of us has to take responsibility for our own emotional well-being, rather than be reactive to others, particularly when the other party deals in a business in which the sales process is generally designed to be highly manipulative. This is the kind of stuff that happens when you buy a car, so you can either accept it for what it is, or allow it to get to you. And since I don't particularly want to pay the "niceness premium", I'd rather get some blustering guy who gives me the best price and a good war story than an "easy" seller who was friendly as he lifted more money out of my wallet.
You know Socal you somewhat remind me of my mom when it comes to car buying. I remember when I went with her when she bought her last car. They had double teamed her and with both sitting there they started to get a bit condescending towards her. Then one said in a calm and friendly voice "You know nobody likes these negotiations and I know you don't either so This is what I will do to help you" as he tried to sound like he was being helpful.
My mom who had been playing the little old lady on a pension that didn't know much to a 'T' looked them straight in the eye and said "Oh I love doing this sort of stuff". You should have seen their faces drop at that comment. My mom was an excellent poker play, a shrewd negotiator with a bit of the con artist thrown it. She was the last person you wanted to negotiate against.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I generally found most upscale brand dealerships gravitate towards into presenting the product and giving you all time you need, concentrating on your needs or wants. Their manners acknowledge it's not a supermarket, you don't do it every day and it's your money and your decision.
"Regular brand" dealerships are much more often run in "deal of the day" mode with prevailing "I will put you in the car today or don't bother me" attitude. You can see it also in advertising of the stores. I cannot recall a local Chevy orToyota store ads claiming anything different than lowest price, whereas almost all BMW or Volvo stores will make mostly product/service/satisfaction claims with just a flash on the screen of the latest lease deal.
But only the Volvo dealership would be considered "upscale," of the three I shopped. And FWIW, Volvo was the *only* one where the salesman's manager stopped by to talk to us as I was talking to the salesman, and the salesman instantly turned to the manager and said "This customer enjoyed the ride, is still looking at other cars, not in a rush to buy, blah, blah blah." This seemed a bit strange to me, but I guess they were keeping tabs on who would most likely buy one of the two remaining slots they had for 2006.
Re Nissan, granted I bought one of the most upscale, expensive cars Nissan offers, but as a car line, I'd say Nissan is more mass-market oriented.
The other one was Toyota, again not particularly upscale (although this one was located in a very affluent area).
E-mail responses from Toyota dealers did emphasize price, though, which was fine. That's what e-mail is for.
My mom who had been playing the little old lady on a pension that didn't know much to a 'T' looked them straight in the eye and said "Oh I love doing this sort of stuff". You should have seen their faces drop at that comment.
I like your mom already! Very impressive, and watching that moment of deflation from the other side is always fun.
That's also a good lesson about turning a perceived disadvantage into an advantage. I'm sure that the sales team thought that they could manhandle a little old lady (notice all those con jobs that target them, it's a shame that they are made to pay for being part of a more trusting generation), and she turned that around on them.
I'll bet that instead of being confrontational or pointing out that she saw through them, she let them do their dance for long enough that they were fully invested in her as a customer, and couldn't afford to let her go. (They have no desire to spend all that time and effort on a legitimate customer without coming away with a sale). Really, there's no need to go head-on with guys like that -- they do it to themselves, and it is their own momentum and desire to close that will ultimately pull them down to your price.
I've actually experienced examples of some of what you've described
Really?? WOW....how did you respond? You end up getting the best price? I'm sure there are "gambits" as you have described, and there is genuine anger from salesmanager/salesperson. I'm sure you would have invested sufficient time already into those deals per good negotiation strategy. And here they are faced with... only making half a "mini", or telling a grinder which way to go.
I would think if the salesman has reached the point to where he is belittling you with everything but "yo mama" jokes, he is to angry and frustrated to want to get you a good deal.
But, I agree it is a fun and exciting game to play. Maybe, I'll visit a couple dealerships this afternoon....kick a few tires.
In the case of the guy who laughed in my face, I walked out, while doing a bit of showboating of my own. (In the case of laughter, I think that you can use an aggressive response and get away with it -- in fact, it might seem weird if you don't.) Of course, that led to the salesmen running after me to bring me back into the showroom, playing good cop ("That guy's a jerk", etc.).
As for the case of the yelling sales manager, I played the role of the calm voice of reason. My response was along the lines of, "Look, I didn't mean to upset you. I know that you've put a lot of effort into closing this deal..." but with an implied "...but if you keep up this nonsense, I'm going to leave and buy the car from somebody else!" I'm sure he got the hint, and from thereon, the F&I process was almost absurdly easy.
It really is fun, if you accept it for what it is. Treat it like a play or a movie production, where it's all make-believe and playfighting. Again, you will be most miserable if you hope to turn into something that it isn't.
Bianca, maybe those of us fortunate enough to live in Fairfax county are spoiled. It is a very competitive area for businesses and they know they have to treat us right or we will go somewhere else.
Almost all of the car sales people, and other sales people, I have dealt with were very nice.
The problem is they should not be able to get away with how rudely they treat their repeat customers. I did increase my offer three times. I even offered for them to huddle up and get back to me with suggestions on making the deal work. They just didn't want to compromise. In my business I tell all my customers I care, and I appreciate their business. Sincerely. Corny I know. But effective. They have choices. As I do. I ended up purchasing my truck from their competitor a few miles up the road with a much better deal and a more friendly atmosphere. I'll probably buy all my company trucks from this dealership now.
"The problem is they should not be able to get away with how rudely they treat their repeat customers."
Well, you solved your problem. You went somewhere else. That was the right thing to do.
I am the same way. On our vacation to the Outer Banks last week, we (six adults and two children) stopped at a deli to get some sandwiches. I didn't like the attitude of the manager, so we left and went to a Subway instead.
For some reason, I am more accepting of odd behavior by car sales people and I don't get upset if they are rude.
Mileage: 26,017 Air Conditioning Power Steering Power Windows Power Door Locks Cruise Control AM/FM Stereo Single Compact Disc Premium Sound OnStar Parking Sensors Dual Front Air Bags ABS (4-Wheel) Traction Control Third Seat Privacy Glass Alloy Wheels
Selling price is $16,495. Seems like a good deal. Thoughts?
The only problem with the vehicle is that generally when you are buying from a car rental agency, you are generally not able to negotiate a price. It is generally a "here is the price, do you want it?" set up like Carmax.
That's a good point: rental agencies don't tend to negotiate. (I'm going to assume that they must have buyback agreements with the manufacturers that must guarantee them a minimum repurchase price as part of their fleet agreements.)
In any case, I would hesitate about buying used rental cars: they will have received only minimal maintenance, will have had their finishes worn by the constant use of mechanical car washes, and will have been driven hard for a fair bit of its life. (Nobody driving them has ever particularly cared about them.) You can also expect that the car will not have been properly broken in, which could shorten its long-term reliability. Personally, I don't think they're worth it.
In any case, I would hesitate about buying used rental cars: they will have received only minimal maintenance, will have had their finishes worn by the constant use of mechanical car washes, and will have been driven hard for a fair bit of its life. (Nobody driving them has ever particularly cared about them.) You can also expect that the car will not have been properly broken in, which could shorten its long-term reliability. Personally, I don't think they're worth it.
I agree with all those points.... You have no idea of the car's maintenance and driving history. You can probably find better-maintained cars from a local seller for the same price or less.
Its all wheel drive. So I have that covered. Its got quite a bit of options. Listing every option on the widow sticker, I came out with a KBB dealer price of over 18k.
As for its history, its a one "real" owner car. I pulled the carfax. It was bought on a short term lease by someone in Michigan. After the lease ran out it went back to the leasor, then to auction, then to this dealership. So thankfully it was never a rental car. All the maintenance records were in the glove box and its had every scheduled maintenance done (which isn't much since it only has 26k miles on it).
OK, with AWD, the price is much more realistic (i only know the options you listed in your original post). I believe something like $1800 over resale. Which is fair. (ignore KBB)
But have you seen the car? I don't see AWD anywhere in that ad. Are you sure it has it?
The reason others think its a rental is because this dealer is using the same logo from the National car rental agency. I also thought this was them selling off one of their rentals. I wonder if they are connected at all.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
Another alternative is purchasing from a dealer that has a loaner program. Audi's and VW are great because you can get a current model year car with a an extended warranty a great price and all maintnence history.
Yeah, i've had the car overnight. Drove it to work today and played around a little at lunch. There are a few options that aren't listed that the car actually does have. It is AWD.
The dealership that i'm getting it from has a pretty good reputation. Been a member of the BBB since '87. No complaints on the company in the last 3 yrs.
This dealership does a warranty deal where after the warranty period is over, if you don't have any warranty work they give you a full refund of the warranty price. I've never heard of anyone else doing that. Thoughts?
Overall you may be correct but, there are some safe bargains to be had from rental fleets. I would never ever buy a previous rental Mustang but certain rentals like Town cars, gran marquis, mini-vans etc are generally rented by business types or large families who arent zooming around recklessly...I have seen mfg warranty claims on consumer cars vs rental cars and there is essentially no difference in the claim rates. So if there was widespread abuse of the cars it would show up in the warranty claims...The savings on some rental cars represent a great value. (not all but some) I personally would not be against buying a previous rental...depending on the particular car/truck.
When buying any used car you don't really know anything except what your told....at least with a rental they have certain minimum standards of maint. that is documented.
I have seen mfg warranty claims on consumer cars vs rental cars and there is essentially no difference in the claim rates.
That's an interesting point, thanks for that.
In part, I am biased, because I worked for one of the major rental agencies for a time while I went to college. The employees were incredibly abusive of the cars, doing stuff that you couldn't imagine. (Let's just say that the process of running cars back and forth between lots could resemble a stock car race, with a hint of demolition derby tossed in for good measure.) Some really abusive driving by people who took advantage of driving a car in ways that they would never drive their own.
Back when I managed a shop we did all the maintenance for a local rental company. We would service 20 to 40 of their cars a week which was between 5 and 10 percent of our volume. They had the oil changed every 4,500 miles on all of their cars, had the tires rotated every second oil change and they kept a car in service till it had about 20,000 miles on it. They normally sold it on their own after they retired the car. Most people don't even bother to get the oil changed as frequently as that or have the tires rotated at all. I would have bought anyone of their used cars if I had been in the market for one of them.
There were of course some dogs from time to time but that is true no matter what. Some cars are just bad cars but most of their cars were in nice shape. This particular company also hand washed all of their cars out back in their own two car wash bay. They were washed every time they came back from use by hand and I know they waxed them periodically as well.
Some really abusive driving by people who took advantage of driving a car in ways they they would never drive their own.
Now, you wouldn't have been one of those "people" would you socala? :sick:
I wouldn't necessarily rule out buying a rental...though I would be extremely cautious. I remember having a "little" bit of fun in some of the rentals I've driven...ethusiastic, though not wreckless.
I personally would not be against buying a previous rental...depending on the particular car/truck.
I'm surprised so many are willing to seriously consider purchasing former rental cars. I guess they are OK if you only plan to keep the car for a few years, and don't mind the interior/exterior wear & tear.
But let me ask a question...When renting a car, do you treat the vehicle like your own, the one you spent lots of hard-earned money on and intend to keep for years?
I'm not sure about everyone else, but the answer for me is NO. I don't care about hitting pot-holes, getting door dings, spilling coffee on the seat, or getting sand in the carpet. I accelerate hard, brake late and hard, and take corners fast.
Would you really think twice about dragging luggage across the trunk lid/bumper when loading a rental car? Or getting in with muddy feet?
My point is, the vast majority of people renting cars are not worried about taking good care of them. Regardless of how often the rental agency changes the oil/rotates the tires/hand washed the car, the car will be abused.
The employees were incredibly abusive of the cars, doing stuff that you couldn't imagine. (Let's just say that the process of running cars back and forth between lots could resemble a stock car race,
You should be around the dealership after a big snowstorm..LOL moving 400 cars and snow-brooming them all in a few hours can be rather entertaining.
I'm surprised so many are willing to seriously consider purchasing former rental cars.
I look at it like I look at just about any used car of that age. Many people who plan on only owning their cars for a very short time don't take the best of care with them.
When renting a car, do you treat the vehicle like your own, the one you spent lots of hard-earned money on and intend to keep for years?
If you ask if I beat on them, no I don't. But I am most likely not as attentive to them as I would my own rides. I have done things not recommended by rental companies though Like when we went to Maui and took the road to Hana instead of turning back when we ran out of pavement we continued on. Something the rental companies tell you not to do and certainly not a drive for the faint of heart.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Comments
I have seen some terrible dealers over the years...the kind that would screw their own grandma....but if they sell enough cars the mfg almost always looks the other way.
Except that this implies that
1) You will always have to deal with a sleazy salesperson and
2) There is no other choice
If these were true then yes your zen approach is the best way. The fact is that this is not always true and you do have the right to expect a certain amount of respect as someone who is going to put done a ton of cash for a purchase. The only way I can see a buyer as not having a choice is if there is no other dealer for miles, but even then you are not locked to a certain sales person at that dealer, but you are locked to the management of course.
To me your approach sounds like boating on a wild river or rough seas and trying to say that it's just a matter of not fighting the current but working with the wind and waves to make the boat move, all the while ignoring that sometimes it's best to leave the boat on the dock and not try to sail in a hurricane. If you're caught in the storm then yes I can see wisdom in not trying to fight the elements but when buying a car you are not trapped like out on the open seas.
If I can't have a resonable conversation with a manager and convince them that I deserve to not be treated poorly as a buyer (let alone a fellow human being) then I would need to give serious consideration to the idea of owning my own car and captialism in general. It's not like I'm showing up twice a week to buy groceries and demanding the bag boy smile and kiss my butt ... but if a car dealership can't see a reason to treat me decently when I'm probably only going to show up every few years with a big bag of money then there's a serious problem with them not me. It's fine to try and sell me stuff, and talk my ear off, and give me reasons to consider things like extended warranty ... but if you think it's ok to try and trick, insult, abuse, or berate me you're either a pretty stupid salesperson in my opinion or the only one selling cars for a 500 mile radius.
Actually, it is always true. Sometimes they are rude, other times they are polite (and in the modern era, they do tend to be more courteous...at least to your face), but the agenda is always the same -- to earn as much money as possible.
I simply don't care whether or not they are "nice", "respectful", "professional" or whatever, who cares what they think? I just want the best price.
If you want to buy based upon a "relationship", then you will most likely pay a premium, and I don't think this is a worthwhile thing to price into the deal, and it certainly isn't worth paying extra for. I'd rather keep the money, I'm buying the car, not a drinking buddy.
Assuming that there is such a thing as post-sale service (warranty claim handling), it may be quantified, in my opinion. I may leave $100-200 more if I'm convinced it will buy me a "better treatment", whatever it means, at the dealer's garage (it is really imaterial if that feeling is true or not). Same with convenience, and "feel good" factors - going to a place that is closer and "friendlier" may be worth a few dollars, too. It is subjective how much and may be small factor for you, but some other people may value them more. I see (perhaps in heat of discussion) get sometimes a bit resentful for even a mentioning of "other than price" factors in a transaction, which I think is a bit overreaching. Your point is well made and you should let others breath, too.
Availability is another important factor, especially with upscale brands, or even regular ones where one may be just dying to get a particular configuration. I see no reason to get a green sedan with auto if I want a red wagon with manual, even if the former is thousands below invoice and the latter is at retail. I just would not be happy - it's not a deal if you get not what you want.
Rare vehicle configuration is probably the trickiest of all - if in entire state Joe's Audi has the only one I want, it becomes essentially a game of chicken. I may be good at hiding my lust, but I have to consider they may call my bluff. They may act like this is such a gem, so there is no way they let it go below retail, but they have to consider I may walk away and the next customer for it may show up in six months. It is all who bliks first then. and who will convince whom that the other one needs them more (did I just looped myself in pronouns
As I said - I agree with you - price is the king, but there are "adjustment factors" that may get someone to willingly leave money on the table.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
If you want to buy based upon a "relationship", then you will most likely pay a premium, and I don't think this is a worthwhile thing to price into the deal, and it certainly isn't worth paying extra for. I'd rather keep the money, I'm buying the car, not a drinking buddy.
Socal, in many ways we're on the same page, but I don't think you necessarily pay a premium if you want to buy based upon a "relationship." I was very satisfied with my recent deal, both from the price and the professionalism standpoint. I think I got a fantastic price, and no one has come along to say anything differently. And the salesman, the sales manager, and the finance guy also treated me professionally and courteously. I was in the dealership again this afternoon (we took the Max in to have it thoroughly cleaned and detailed), and I had a pleasant chat with the sales man and the manager again while waiting for the Max.
While the price of course was negotiated, that didn't mean we had an unpleasantly adverserial relationship. I want more than just the best price. I also want professional people who respect their customers, who try to cultivate long-term relationships. It benefits everyone in the long run.
Come now, you know that's not what I'm saying. I'm actually restating your mantra in my own terms -- you believe that by providing "superior service", "value" or whatever you'd like to call it that customers should be willing to pay you extra money. Call it what you will, but you are expecting us to pay a "niceness premium."
But let's look at it another way: since you've noted that salespeople don't like "grinders", you've already expressed your inherent dislike for the rock bottom price buyer. Therefore, unless you aren't all that good at hiding your feelings in front of the client, then it's a fair guess that the low price buyer isn't going to given treatment that is quite as nice as would the person who pays more. Accordingly, I would expect that I'm going to lose some of the happy/nice treatment from the salespeople that I would have gotten had I paid more, even if I'm polite in the process.
Is that dealer niceness going to be worth hundreds or thousands of my dollars? No way, I'll take the money.
I feel very strongly that from a buyer's standpoint, we should generally be polite and courteous. Although it can sometimes make sense to use showboating (not genuine anger) as a gambit, I reserve it for rare occasions, and use it strictly as a tactic.
My point has been that the salespeople will generally not be that happy with you if you pay bottom dollar, no matter how nice, professional or polite that you happen to be. This is ultimately a numbers game, and if the number is exceedingly low, the seller is likely to resent it to some degree, because s/he is always competing for more.
And I really don't care. If he wants to love me to death for paying invoice or below, that's fine, but it's not mandatory. In a car deal, the price is vastly more important than the relationship, and while I'll take the relationship as a free option, I won't be paying a dime to get it.
You are exactly right that the "system is easily tamed" if buyers knows what they is doing.
Of course, most of us don't have the skill to get the dealer to act exactly the way we want them to, but at least we can make car buying a very enjoyable experience.
Of course, most of us don't have the skill to get the dealer to act exactly the way we want them to
I think that this is exactly the problem. In all areas of life, trying to control or dominate people is just time-consuming, tedious and wholly unnecessary, so why bother trying? Car buying is a very predictable game with tried-and-true methods being applied consistently across the board, so going with the flow and matching the other party move for move should produce optimal results.
I still find it interesting that it's ok for someone, who you are buying a product from, can treat you poorly and it doesn't affect you. I don't see a difference between buying a car and buying a stick of gum in that I don't want either seller to treat me poorly. If he does, I take my business elsewhere. But my expectations are also different in that the more I'm paying the more I expect.
If you want to buy based upon a "relationship", then you will most likely pay a premium, and I don't think this is a worthwhile thing to price into the deal, and it certainly isn't worth paying extra for. I'd rather keep the money, I'm buying the car, not a drinking buddy.
Who said anything about a relationship? Again, if I dine out at an expensive restaurant I'm not looking for the waiter to be my pal, but I do expect him to treat me nice. Same goes for an expensive pair of shoes, a suit, or maybe a diamond necklace.
It has nothing to do with relationship building. It's about common decency and respect. Over the past few days I've read about managers adding $3500 charges and trying to slip them buy and salesman screaming and storming off refusing to talk to customers. This is not treating a fellow human being with even the base amount of respect that is owed.
Bottom line is that there are other ways to try and make sales that don't involve being a total jerk. The idea that my price is going to change because a guy yells at me is insane. But it's very likely I will take my business elsewhere if the guy does yell at me. A salesman can try an cheat or bully his way to make a few extra hundred but he runs the risk of losing it all if he does so. I suppose it depends on whether you want to gamble or not.
Could I get save money by compromising my morals and using the same ugly tactics that salesman use on me in reverse? Maybe, but the price isn't worth it to me. The ugly salesman of the world can live with their ways if they want to, but I don't have to change my ways just to buy a car.
Sadly the type of dealerships we all would like to patronize are few and far between. The auto industry is a powerful(money) and influencial machine...and would be very difficult to clean up.
The frustrating thing was they just didn't care. This story does have a happy ending though, my daughter came to visit later today, as we were telling her this story she decided she wanted to buy the car herself. I'd rather give her a great deal on a great car than the money grubbing ba@#%&ds at the dealership. Now that we don't have a trade in we are working with another dealership on a Silverado at below invoice. But not this dealer that I had all the problems. I will never go back. They lost a customer for life.
I don't think that you follow the point here, we are approaching this from entirely different angles.
You are going into this in a reactive mode -- SalesPersonA does something, and you respond by reacting to it. You are highly concerned with receiving "respectful" treatment, and will opt to continue with the transaction or not based upon whether you perceive that the other party has paid his respects. Your inclination is to get huffy and upset because the car salesman behaved like a car salesman.
My perspective is entirely different. The sales process is a game, designed by the sellers, a byproduct of how profits are created in car sales. (Car sales involve many moving parts, often with several transactions that occur simultaneously -- purchase, trade, financing, add-ons, incentive payments, etc. -- so the dealer is highly motivated to find profit from all of these sources.) So I see why they do it, and it's helpful to know what motivates them, because it helps me with my deal.
I don't need the car salesman's love, respect, comaraderie or whatever, it never even crosses my mind whether I am being "respected" or not. It's just business, it's nothing personal, and his attitudes are entirely meaningless to me, except as it relates to crafting tactics for cutting my deal.
For me, it's all about the deal, and the sales team's behavior is just window dressing. The amount of profit that various buyers leave on the table varies so much that I see this as an opportunity to take a lot of that potential profit for myself in the form of a lower purchase price, so that's my focus.
The people who manage to combine happiness with good deal terms are those who see the game for what it is, and resolve to have fun with it -- there's no need to drive all over town and get upset if your priorities are in the right place. If you really want respect, that needs to come from within.
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But don't take it personal just because the dealer didn't want your car.
Again, I attribute this to a couple of basic factors:
-The salespeople are on commission. That makes it a highly competitive environment -- the salesman isn't just competing with other dealerships, but also salesmen in his own store. Dog eat dog attitude + hunger for commissions = a weird variant on customer service.
-Profits are made from a lot of sources, not just one. The skilled dealership manages to find ways to juggle profit throughout the transaction, including the purchase, trade, financing, and add-ons. The ability to pull profits by hiding one number behind another encourages the dealership to use manipulation and sleight-of-hand to take its cash from as many places as possible.
I wouldn't take it personally, it's just business. If you know the value of your trade-in, I'd sell it myself.
And I would tend to avoid shopping with a partner or spouse, unless you have a game plan. The dealer will often attempt to pit you against another and to attack whoever appears to be the "bad cop" in your relationship, so be on the alert for that effort.
I was treated very well at all three stores. All three salesmen were professional, showed me the features of the respective cars, and gave me a test-drive long enough to see if I was interested further. None of them were high-pressure at all. None of them said "what would it take to get you into this car today?" I told all of them that I was test-driving a few different convertibles and would be in touch.
Who knows if the business has changed, or if it was the nature of the cars I was looking at, or what, but all the salesmen seemed like reasonable, professional, knowledgeable people. Car-buying doesn't have to mean getting into a duel to the death, grind 'em down, drive everybody crazy type situation. I found the whole experience pleasant and fun. And fast - from first test drive to car in my garage was only 3 days.
I don't think anyone is saying they want the salemans "love". I know I don't. Most salemen act professionally, in that they don't make condesending or rude remarks to a customer, raise their voice in anger,or try to sneak in $3,500 of unwanted junk into a contract. But, there are many that do.
There is a line that shouldn't be crossed by a salesperson. Each individual buyer is different in that they have tolerance for only so much....before they would walk. You apparently have a high tolerance for salesmen abuse. Though I doubt you rarely get much considering your apparent proficiency. That's fine and it works for you...but it doesn't work for everyone.Why is Kirstie allowed to make a purchase based on her own personal needs and wants, but pretzelb isn't?
But, I think that even you have a point that you would walk socal4. i.e A salesman getting in your face, yelling spit at you that he has a wife and kids to feed and that you are grinding him into the poorhouse? i.e "You're an idiot if you think we're gonna sell it for that!" "Did you just get out of the mental house? Because you're freaking crazy if you think I'm gonna lose money on this deal". Extreme examples I know, but how would you counter? Stand there and smile, redirect the conversation to another area? But, the rude, condescending and personal remarks continue. Are you still gonna stay and go for "the deal"?
No it hasn't changed, there have always been professional dealerships and the will always be sleazy one. As Al Stewart once wrote: "The more it changes, the more it stays the same And the hand just re-arranges the players in the game".
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sounds like you've been with me before, you're taking me down Memory Lane! I've actually experienced examples of some of what you've described, such as the sales manager laughing in my face derisively or another one blowing his top (a gambit in each case, I'm sure).
Honestly, anything short of physical violence or threats of violence doesn't bother me at all, it can be a fairly crude game, even if it really has toned down from years ago. A well-executed gambit is actually fun to watch (just so long as you don't fall for it.)
I think the point here is that each of us has to take responsibility for our own emotional well-being, rather than be reactive to others, particularly when the other party deals in a business in which the sales process is generally designed to be highly manipulative. This is the kind of stuff that happens when you buy a car, so you can either accept it for what it is, or allow it to get to you. And since I don't particularly want to pay the "niceness premium", I'd rather get some blustering guy who gives me the best price and a good war story than an "easy" seller who was friendly as he lifted more money out of my wallet.
My mom who had been playing the little old lady on a pension that didn't know much to a 'T' looked them straight in the eye and said "Oh I love doing this sort of stuff". You should have seen their faces drop at that comment. My mom was an excellent poker play, a shrewd negotiator with a bit of the con artist thrown it. She was the last person you wanted to negotiate against.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"Regular brand" dealerships are much more often run in "deal of the day" mode with prevailing "I will put you in the car today or don't bother me" attitude. You can see it also in advertising of the stores. I cannot recall a local Chevy orToyota store ads claiming anything different than lowest price, whereas almost all BMW or Volvo stores will make mostly product/service/satisfaction claims with just a flash on the screen of the latest lease deal.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Re Nissan, granted I bought one of the most upscale, expensive cars Nissan offers, but as a car line, I'd say Nissan is more mass-market oriented.
The other one was Toyota, again not particularly upscale (although this one was located in a very affluent area).
E-mail responses from Toyota dealers did emphasize price, though, which was fine. That's what e-mail is for.
I like your mom already! Very impressive, and watching that moment of deflation from the other side is always fun.
That's also a good lesson about turning a perceived disadvantage into an advantage. I'm sure that the sales team thought that they could manhandle a little old lady (notice all those con jobs that target them, it's a shame that they are made to pay for being part of a more trusting generation), and she turned that around on them.
I'll bet that instead of being confrontational or pointing out that she saw through them, she let them do their dance for long enough that they were fully invested in her as a customer, and couldn't afford to let her go. (They have no desire to spend all that time and effort on a legitimate customer without coming away with a sale). Really, there's no need to go head-on with guys like that -- they do it to themselves, and it is their own momentum and desire to close that will ultimately pull them down to your price.
Really?? WOW....how did you respond? You end up getting the best price? I'm sure there are "gambits" as you have described, and there is genuine anger from salesmanager/salesperson. I'm sure you would have invested sufficient time already into those deals per good negotiation strategy. And here they are faced with... only making half a "mini", or telling a grinder which way to go.
I would think if the salesman has reached the point to where he is belittling you with everything but "yo mama" jokes, he is to angry and frustrated to want to get you a good deal.
But, I agree it is a fun and exciting game to play. Maybe, I'll visit a couple dealerships this afternoon....kick a few tires.
Its more of a lesson it getting to know your enemy as well as possible while not letting them know you.
I'm sure that the sales team thought that they could manhandle a little old lady
Actually she did a real good job of manhandling them before they knew what happened.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
As for the case of the yelling sales manager, I played the role of the calm voice of reason. My response was along the lines of, "Look, I didn't mean to upset you. I know that you've put a lot of effort into closing this deal..." but with an implied "...but if you keep up this nonsense, I'm going to leave and buy the car from somebody else!" I'm sure he got the hint, and from thereon, the F&I process was almost absurdly easy.
It really is fun, if you accept it for what it is. Treat it like a play or a movie production, where it's all make-believe and playfighting. Again, you will be most miserable if you hope to turn into something that it isn't.
Yep if you stay calm when they start ranting you have the edge.
If you start losing your cool regain it or leave.
It was probably an act to try to get you upset and making mistakes.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You made an offer and the dealer did not accept it. Get over it. Either increase your offer or go somewhere else.
I have had plenty of offers turned down, beginning with Mindy Lou in high school and continuing to the present. No reason to take it so personal.
Almost all of the car sales people, and other sales people, I have dealt with were very nice.
Could be. That's the advantage of living in such a population-dense area; there are plenty of dealerships around for any brand you want.
Well, you solved your problem. You went somewhere else. That was the right thing to do.
I am the same way. On our vacation to the Outer Banks last week, we (six adults and two children) stopped at a deli to get some sandwiches. I didn't like the attitude of the manager, so we left and went to a Subway instead.
For some reason, I am more accepting of odd behavior by car sales people and I don't get upset if they are rude.
Mileage: 26,017
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Single Compact Disc
Premium Sound
OnStar
Parking Sensors
Dual Front Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Traction Control
Third Seat
Privacy Glass
Alloy Wheels
Selling price is $16,495. Seems like a good deal. Thoughts?
I believe it to be about a $12-$13k car wholesale. So even $15k would be all the money in the world for it. Start them at $14k and go from there.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
In any case, I would hesitate about buying used rental cars: they will have received only minimal maintenance, will have had their finishes worn by the constant use of mechanical car washes, and will have been driven hard for a fair bit of its life. (Nobody driving them has ever particularly cared about them.) You can also expect that the car will not have been properly broken in, which could shorten its long-term reliability. Personally, I don't think they're worth it.
I agree with all those points.... You have no idea of the car's maintenance and driving history. You can probably find better-maintained cars from a local seller for the same price or less.
As for its history, its a one "real" owner car. I pulled the carfax. It was bought on a short term lease by someone in Michigan. After the lease ran out it went back to the leasor, then to auction, then to this dealership. So thankfully it was never a rental car. All the maintenance records were in the glove box and its had every scheduled maintenance done (which isn't much since it only has 26k miles on it).
But have you seen the car? I don't see AWD anywhere in that ad. Are you sure it has it?
The reason others think its a rental is because this dealer is using the same logo from the National car rental agency. I also thought this was them selling off one of their rentals. I wonder if they are connected at all.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The dealership that i'm getting it from has a pretty good reputation. Been a member of the BBB since '87. No complaints on the company in the last 3 yrs.
This dealership does a warranty deal where after the warranty period is over, if you don't have any warranty work they give you a full refund of the warranty price. I've never heard of anyone else doing that. Thoughts?
When buying any used car you don't really know anything except what your told....at least with a rental they have certain minimum standards of maint. that is documented.
That's an interesting point, thanks for that.
In part, I am biased, because I worked for one of the major rental agencies for a time while I went to college. The employees were incredibly abusive of the cars, doing stuff that you couldn't imagine. (Let's just say that the process of running cars back and forth between lots could resemble a stock car race, with a hint of demolition derby tossed in for good measure.) Some really abusive driving by people who took advantage of driving a car in ways that they would never drive their own.
There were of course some dogs from time to time but that is true no matter what. Some cars are just bad cars but most of their cars were in nice shape. This particular company also hand washed all of their cars out back in their own two car wash bay. They were washed every time they came back from use by hand and I know they waxed them periodically as well.
Now, you wouldn't have been one of those "people" would you socala? :sick:
I wouldn't necessarily rule out buying a rental...though I would be extremely cautious. I remember having a "little" bit of fun in some of the rentals I've driven...ethusiastic, though not wreckless.
I'm surprised so many are willing to seriously consider purchasing former rental cars. I guess they are OK if you only plan to keep the car for a few years, and don't mind the interior/exterior wear & tear.
But let me ask a question...When renting a car, do you treat the vehicle like your own, the one you spent lots of hard-earned money on and intend to keep for years?
I'm not sure about everyone else, but the answer for me is NO. I don't care about hitting pot-holes, getting door dings, spilling coffee on the seat, or getting sand in the carpet. I accelerate hard, brake late and hard, and take corners fast.
Would you really think twice about dragging luggage across the trunk lid/bumper when loading a rental car? Or getting in with muddy feet?
My point is, the vast majority of people renting cars are not worried about taking good care of them. Regardless of how often the rental agency changes the oil/rotates the tires/hand washed the car, the car will be abused.
You should be around the dealership after a big snowstorm..LOL moving 400 cars and snow-brooming them all in a few hours can be rather entertaining.
I look at it like I look at just about any used car of that age. Many people who plan on only owning their cars for a very short time don't take the best of care with them.
When renting a car, do you treat the vehicle like your own, the one you spent lots of hard-earned money on and intend to keep for years?
If you ask if I beat on them, no I don't. But I am most likely not as attentive to them as I would my own rides. I have done things not recommended by rental companies though
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D