did you spend much more additional time getting the discount that you obtained?
I spent about two 5 minute phonecalls with my saleslady after inital contact and getting an estimate. Both times I had to wait for her, "I'll have to talk to the manager" call back...which wasn't very long.
The first $140 dropped I called and told her that her original in store estimate(without measuring) was about $250 higher than the estimate after measuring. I asked if she could come down on the price as we were not wanting to spend that much. She agree after speaking with the manager.
After her first offer to drop the price, I told her I thought it was still a little high and I would think it over. I told her I would let her know something by Friday...which was about 4 days away. On Friday I called telling her I was not ready to make a decision, but I prepared if she insinuated some sort of negotiation. She mentioned the quality of their carpet (it is a reputable well establish store.)I told her some other estimates I had obtained at other stores with similar carpet was priced less(which it was)and if she would drop another $100 I would come over and sign the contract. After speaking with her manager she agreed.
Now, as I said my earlier post. If I hadn't been under my own time constraints, i.e wife waving a frying pan at my direction telling me to get off the pot and buy some carpet, I would have gone for more.
I wouldn't mess with the frying pan. The Angry Wife gambit is a difficult one to beat...
Nice to hear, though, that a ten-minute investment got you $240. Putting that through my trusty calculator, that works out to be $1440 per hour. (And the money you spend is comprised of post-tax dollars earned from your income, so you'd probably need to make about $2,100 per hour from your job in order to net an equivalant take-home amount from your paycheck.)
I'd say that $1,440 per hour is a pretty good rate of return for most people. For some reason, people like to make this "I don't want to spend two hours to get $100" argument, when my experience (for whatever that's worth) tells me that I'm generally going to be able to gain concessions at a rate of perhaps $1,000-2,000 per hour of additional time investment. Not impressive if you happen to be Bill Gates, but for most of us, I'd say that this is a pretty good use of time.
Bob, thanks for that, your input is much appreciated. Your posts make it clear that you understand the customer control issue.
My counterpoint to all that is that it is easy to sidestep the control issue, but it is not necessarily desirable to try to do this by getting into an overt wrestling match for control. If you focus on gaining or resisting control, you simply create a battleground over something that doesn't require a fight, and which creates a distraction that doesn't help your dealmaking. Since the seller ultimately can't take control unless the buyer allows it to be taken, I see no reason to lock horns over something that I will maintain by default.
One of my core strategies is to allow the salesperson to maintain the illusion that s/he is in control for as long as possible. Since you know that this is something that the saleperson aspires to reach (this is a milestone on the road of the deal, as a conquered customer can be softened up for more profits), it's a good teaser to give away fairly early on. Once they believe that they have gained control, they will tend to let their guards down a bit, which in turn allows them to reach their "point of no return" (the point at which letting you walk becomes a major sacrifice which must be prevented) that much sooner. By the time that it becomes obvious that you have controlled the game all along, they have invested greatly into getting your deal closed, and will be very reluctant to let it die.
By the way, this basic concept works for more than just car sales. I find this methodology useful for buying from any commissioned salesperson. Handled properly, it is very easy to manage and will help you to avoid direct confrontation virtually every time.
I don't try to "control" my customers. I simply treat them in the manner I like to be treated myself.
Once in awhile (not often) I'll get one who tries to control me or decieve me. I can spot these people in an instant. I'll usually end up selling these people a car but it won't be much fun.
I'll agree with you on not giving a lousy store/salesman the satisfaction of a sale. Hey we agree on something!Maybe someday I will buy a car from you! Oh wait,I've promised myself not to buy a Honda until Honda Inc discovers the wonders of actually putting sound insulation in their cars. Nevermind. :P
The "Bell Curve" theory applies to my customers. Probably 20% of my customers stand out as being just great people that were a pleasure to deal with. These people are like friends. They would be welcome in our home and I would love to have them as neighbors. The amount of profit that was generated from the sale has no bearing on how I feel about them.
The second group in the "bell" would include around 70% of the people I have sold cars to. They were good to deal with, they will stop by my office sometimes while in service etc. Most of my customers are in that group.
That leaves the 10% that I hope I never see again. They were cold, unfriendly and distrustful. They lied to me about their credit, condition of their trade etc. Just made the sale a miserable one.
Actually, that number may be smaller than 10%. Out of the two thousand plus cars I've sold I can think of maybe ten customers that would fall in that catagory.
It's not all about money...for me. I don't have to sell cars to pay my bills.
I plan on buying a car by the end of May, but was considering checking out the dealership tomorrow. I know exactly what I want so I really don't need anymore information but I could go under the guise that I don't know what I want and gather some brochures or whatever. I of course don't want to waste anyone's time though, so I'd make it clear that i'm just looking and getting information. Does this sound like a good idea? I have been to this dealership in the past and I've used their service department several times. I was thinking I could get a feel for the place and the salesmen there. It might also make me feel a bit more comfortable on the day I plan to purchase.
There is no need to waste anyone's time by going under any kind of guise. If you know exactly what kind of car you want, then go to the dealer and make an offer or try to negotiate your best price. SImple as that.
I used to be a car salesman for a little while, but got bored of it because we had no traffic. I did find out though that I'm really good at negotiating and cusotmers really like me. I also have a law degree and consider myself a pretty shrewed car shopper. Anyways I've decided to start a business helping people buy cars. I have a website up, but its not quite finished: carshoppingexperts.com.
Anyways, I was looking for some thoughts from consumers. My original business plan was just to find people who were shopping for cars, find the vehicle they were looking for, get some quotes, and negotiate a lower price if I could. I figured I could get dealers to pay me a $100 referral fee. However I found that most people has been on the internet and were getting the same quotes as me. Furthemore I couldn't really negotiate, because its almost impossible to do so if you are not commited to buying a car. Since my customers were still shopping, it was hard to negotiate on their behalf.
Now my newest idea is to have a target price. A customer chooses a car and I give them a target price, which is very competitive. For instance on an Accord, I'm quoting $200 under invoice. This is below carsdirect and way below edmunds tmv. The problem is that I can't guarantee that I can get the car in the model you want at your location for $200 under invoice. So instead my idea is to have customers commit to that price in writing and give me one business day to get them that price. I take no security deposit as I figure not many will trust me. But I do write that if you reneg than I'll bill you $200 for time and effort. I do allow you out without penalty if there is a problem with the car, or financing, or if trade value is unacceptable. Basically I just contractually tie you up for 24 hours, but if I come through you get a really good no haggle price.
My question is how would you as a buyer feel about this. The way I see it is that the worst that can happen is you waste 24 hours. But I suppose maybe you just feel it's easier to call up a dealer and offer 200 under invoice. I guess I feel that I'm far more likely to get them to agree than most people, but if you stick to your guns my guess is that you will get the deal. Also I'm sure people feel skeptical and people think its fishy, but I'm looking for specific things that I can overcome.
So if you came across me and I told you that I need 24 hours but I can most likely get you 200 under invoice, but I'd also want your commitment in writing.
What would you think if you had not test driven the accord yet?
What would you think if you had test driven, and they offered you $1000 over invoice so you went home.
What would you think if you then went home got on the internet and asked dealers for quotes. Your lowest quotes then cam back at invoice.
Dealers: How would you react if I came to you and said that my customer is willing to pay 200 under invoice, but I want an additional $200 for bringing you the deal. Assume that you want to make a deal at $400 under invoice, and that I will take my business elsewhere if you decline. I also refuse to give you his name and number until you put acceptance in writing. Should I demand acceptance in writing, or should I not worry about dealer cutting me out of the loop once I give him customers name and number. I'd assume that I can trust you all, but I've worked for some pretty shady dealers.
I realize that people on this board aren't average consumers, but I'm also trying to advertise nationally, so most people who can find me are already pretty savvy.
Maybe its not new, but everything is about how you do it. From what I understand most car brokers charge like $500 and get you pretty poor prices. Amazon.com is just a bookstore, but it works. carsdirect.com is really just a broker from what I understand, but it seems to work.
Even if I am just a broker, I'm just trying to the most consumer helpful broker.
i want to buy a 2006 toyota rav4....what is the best time of year to get the best deal? I thought that i should shop when they are trying to get rid of them for the 2007 cars??
I personally don't understand this concern about "wasting anyone's time". You are out shopping for a complex, expensive one-and-a-half ton device, so you have every reason to get comfortable with your purchase choice. If the salesperson feels that you wasted his time by browsing on the lot or whatever, that's his attitude problem, not yours.
I think that it's perfectly fine to do a reconnaissance mission if you find it necessary. If you read back through the thread about using time pressures in order to help your negotiations, this is also your opportunity to meet one of the salespeople, get his/her contact info, and to begin laying the groundwork for getting his/her investment into your future deal. Feel free to not make the purchase at the first encounter, don't be too generous with personal information (although don't appear to be deliberately guarded) and absolutely take the brochures, etc. if you want to.
This discussion frequently speaks on how to "minimize" the price one pays for a vehilce. In all these years I've been a member at Edmunds...I've yet to come across a detailed personal account of how a salesman "maximizes" profit from a salesman's perspective (not from snake, socala or host of others). Surely it is the job of the salesman to make as much money for the dealership as possible, which in turn makes them as much as possible. Yet, we never hear about that side. Probably never will. But, here's your chance.
Car shoppers usually get the vague responses from salespeople of: customer service, treat with respect, they treat them the way they would like to be treated etc. etc. But, you salesmen out there must have a plan when that customer steps onto the lot. i.e greet, establish repore, test drive, more repore, offer car at MSRP...customer doesn't want to go MSRP...wants at invoice. Whatya do? Specifically what do you say, and steps you use, to get a higher price?
In understanding what you salesmen do to try to "maximize" dealer profit, you can help the rest of us out in getting a better deal when we go "car shopping". Which is why you came to this discussion in the first place...right?
Its a good ideal if you just want brochures, but you won't get much of a feel for the dealership and practically none for the sales force if you don't interact with them.
Since you have been there before and used their service department you should have some feel for the dealership. But maybe a little internet research on the dealership might bring to light some issues.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wouldn't use your service, I wouldn't advise anyone from using your service, or any service like that. There is just way to much information on the internet that people can get price wise real quick. Plus with little effort one can learn enough about negotiation styles and how to use them to get a pretty good price. Because of that I really can't see you getting a deal thats much better than a well informed buyer can get.
Also using a broker adds another cost center between you and the manufacturer which will almost certainly add to the price of the car. You won't work for free.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Do you know anybody who has bought cars from them that you could ask for a referral?
You could also go back to Service Department and ask one of the Advisors who they would reccommend. Ask who has been there the longest. This is probably the best way.
Actually, my mom just bought a vehicle there from there. If I purchase a car from her salesman my mom will get $100. Ooooh *eyeroll*. She had no complaints about him but I'm sure she didn't try negotiating with him.
Also, there is a guy there that my mom's boss buys his work trucks from (fleet manager?). She said he'd give me a good deal. It's just my mom's boss's salesman, so why should I think I'm special enough to get a particularly good deal from him?
I might be thinking about all this way too much. Information overload :sick:
IMO, you're making a classic business mistake: You are creating a business model built on low volumes appealing to a niche market, yet trying to compete on price. End result: Even in your best-case scenario, you end up making very little money, because you need turn a lot of deals in order to turn a profit.
The fact that you don't have access to the inventory at wholesale puts you at a disadvantage. Compared to a dealer, your margins are squeezed before you've started. You may not have the brick-and-mortar costs, but you'll more than lose any advantage from that with the higher product cost, costly marketing and relatively low volume. And given the level of competition (including some branded variants such as CarsDirect, AAA and Costco), marketing costs would be quite high.
If you really want to do this, I'd suggest approaching it as a sideline that you build largely from word-of-mouth. You won't make a ton of money (and you may very well earn next-to-nothing), but if you build a reputation, you might become a sort-of go-to guy. In this case, I would position it not as a low-price model, but based upon service, convenience, etc., so that you have fewer time constraints and your margins can be higher.
That being said, this last scenario still doesn't help you with the aforementioned inventory problem, and unless you can find a way to carve the dealerships out of it or get them to cooperate with you, I see their participation as being a negative from your standpoint. If you could solve this inventory/ sourcing problem, there might be something to it, but I can't see how you'd manage that.
"why should I think I'm special enough to get a particularly good deal from him?"
You shouldn't.
Instead if thinking so much about the dealer, you should be researching prices. The Prices Paid forum helped me a great deal.
When we were ready to buy our Honda last year, I was prepared to pay the usual $200 over invoice. I looked at the Pries Paid fourm, and some people claimed they bought a Honda for $500 under invoice. I found that price hard to believe, so we went to the dealer, offered that amount, and they accepted.
Thanks Bobst. Unfortunatly the prices paid thread for the car I want is pretty much dead. I'm still doing my research and am going to print out all my information very soon.
I guess I disagree with you a little though. The only place I've ever found with truly great information is the prices paid forum. In 4 months of selling, I probably had over 200 customers, and i don't think one had ever seen the prices paid forum. I worked floor sales and estimate that 1 in 5 of my cutomers had been to edmunds. But edmunds is quite misleading. If you look up invoice and TMV at edmunds, most will come away feeling that if they pay a little over invoice that is a good deal. But I could probably beat TMV on an accord by $1000, by $2000 on a pilot, and by $2500 on a sonata.
Some people know that TMV is way to high, but most don't. And it's extremely rare to come across a customer who believes they can buy below invoice. Most feel that is our cost and they need to pay a little above that. Whenever i would stumble with a customer, I'd just show them the invoice, ask them for $200 profit and that almost always worked. Plus edmunds is full of mistakes. Its missing $1000 dealer cash on pilot and acura TL for example.
In fact i think the only customers I ever got who paid rock bottom prices, did so because they shopped multiple dealers and pitted them against each other. That strategy can work, but its a lot of work. But basically i never see anyone come in with enough research to shop only my dealer, and get a rock bottom price. I could convince almost anybody that they needed to pay above invoice. You'd also be surprised how many people I can get to pay above sticker.
Anyways, I do appreciate your advice. I know that there are some people out there who can do just as well as me, but I don't think there are as many people as you think. I only worked at a honda dealer in Houston for two months, but I only know of one car that we sold below invoice, out of like 300. I do know that they will sell below invoice if they have to though.
I used to sell Honda's also. An accord for 400 under can easily be done though. Check out the prices paid forum. Lots of people are buying accords for 400 under. I'm pretty sure I can get a customer 400 under on a common car in a major market.
Do sites like this make it easy to buy a car, or are they misleading. I would think that a novice would come to this site, read about TMV and say that would be a reasonable price. But I think you can beat TMV by a grand or even two in many cases. Its even worse on some used cars. Dealer retail on a used 2006 sonata is about 4000 higher than what you can buy a new one for. In fact trade in value on that car is about 1500 higher than the brand new selling price.
I agree that car customers are flaky. most have no idea what they want, don't know how much to pay, and take forever getting ready to buy. If youre in the car business you just deal with it though. Its not any different from the sales side.
The problem is that it's not just about price. In my experience very few buyers are just buying a car with cash or perfect credit. There's trades to deal with which were always a nemesis of mine; "Sorry Sir, but just because you owe $30,000 on your 1992 Crapmobile GT with no service history, 24" chromies, a giant dent in the drivers side door and more orange peel in the paint than a Florida citrus grove doesn't mean it's worth a penny over $5,000", poor credit issues and all manner of other hold-ups.
As other posters have said, there is so much information available to car buyers in the U.S. that there should be no need for a car brokering service. From my experience Carsdirect.com is little more than a lead generating service and for people who really don't want to negotiate there is Cosctco and AAA.
Where car brokering does seem to work well is in my homeland (check the flag!). There is very little pricing information on-line and it's just not in our nature to haggle over price.
Well, I'm afraid you have maybe bought into some of these "Prices Paid" numbers a bit too seriously.
I don't spend much time there because it's hard for me to bite my tongue sometimes.
Some of those "prices paid" never happened. If they did happen, the store underallowed on their trade...something.
I'll never know how these TMV numbers are arrived at. We sure don't devulge that kind of information, and I think if most recent buyers were asked what they paid they either wouldn't know, they would guess, or tell the psrson asking the question..." That's none of your business"
People read these forums and believe what they want to believe. You just told them that TMV isn't accurate...it's too high. In my experience, sometimes we can sell a car for that number, maybe less and other times due to the market and inventory conditions, we can't.
For the most part, it can be a pretty good indicator.
The only place I've ever found with truly great information is the prices paid forum.
I would take anything said in a prices paid forum with a grain of salt. I would discount the ultra low prices right from the start. Unless I could see the paperwork and/or there was no trade in it could be complicated getting the truth. Sure they paid $300 under invoice but thats with a $1,500 rebate, they were given $250 less than they should have gotten for their trade in and the paid $350 in doc fees.
But edmunds is quite misleading. If you look up invoice and TMV at edmunds,
Thats why you would use them as a guide and shop around. Also remember that using a proven negotiation technique will get you to that near lowest price.
Anyways, I do appreciate your advice. I know that there are some people out there who can do just as well as me, but I don't think there are as many people as you think.
I really don't think there are to many that can. But give them to me for a day or two and they will get close, close enough that they wouldn't need a broker.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'll be the first to agree with you that some people may have gotten taken somewhere else that they do not know about. But I think its ignorant to disbelieve thousands of posts. Salesman at my Honda store also think under invoice is impossible too. People would bring in an invoice quote from another dealer and ask to have it beat, and most salesmen can not believe its true. But there are plenty of dealers that will sell for under invoice.
There are too many examples to discuss, but using an Accord is easy. You said why would anybody sell such a popular car below invoice. Answer is becasue they have to. Its not like you have to line up to buy an Accord. There are thousands available. When you have 15 dealers, it is cut throat. I don't know where you work, but there are many cities where you can easily buy an accord for 400 under invoice. Open road honda is quoting them on their website at less than that even after destination and doc fee are added. Carsdirect is also quoting less than that with an atlanta zip code.
If you want to belive that you can not get an accord for 400 under, that's your belief. It would be the same as most salesmen I know. But I'm willing to bet that in many cities I can buy it for 400 under.
As far as TMV goes, both dealers I've worked at will sell all cars all day at TMV. A customer who walks in ready to pay TMV is a dream customer. I'm not sure why your experience is different. Maybe you work in a smaller place with little competition. At the Nissan dealer I worked at we'd give invoice minus rebates minutes holdback minus another couple of hundred.
I guess this is why I think I'm actually useful. If you think that paying tmv or even a few hundred over invoice is a good deal, than I can save you money and you don't have to do anything at all. I just bought my cousin a mitsubishi eclipse last week at 1700 under TMV.
I would take anything said in a prices paid forum with a grain of salt. I would discount the ultra low prices right from the start. Unless I could see the paperwork and/or there was no trade in it could be complicated getting the truth. Sure they paid $300 under invoice but thats with a $1,500 rebate, they were given $250 less than they should have gotten for their trade in and the paid $350 in doc fees.
Well its this skepticism that I am getting at. If you think that these prices are impossible, than I assume you are not asking for them. How do you know its not possible. I can tell you from experience selling Nissans that I sold many cars where I gave the rebate, and gave invoice minus holdback. Sometimes even a couple hundred dollars more. I know for a fact that it is possible to get 100% of the holdback and all rebates. This is without a trade and only paying a $50 doc fee.
There were a few deals that I just thought were impossible, and my manager would never go for it. But I was surprised when they did accept it. Truth is that they have goals, and inventory turnover, and monthly sales bonuses to worry about. They have more going on than they let the salesmen know, and more than any consumer (even myself) know about. For example I haven't been able to figure out what kind of dealer cash there is on altima besides rebate, but I know there is a hidden incentive. If I had a altima for sale with a 21,500 MSRP, 20,000 invoice and 1750 rebate, what do you think you can pay. I'll bet you could get 20K-1750rebate-600holdback-250. That's 17,400. If you don't think this is possible, than I doubt that you will get it.
What I am getting at is that these deals are out there. For example I bought my cousin a 2006 mitsubishi eclipse last weekend. MSRP: 27.9K, price paid was 24.3K after 1000 rebate. The invoice on this car was 26.2K according to edmunds. So I was still at 900 under invoice. There is no activity on the prices paid forum and TMV was 25.9K after rebate. What could you possibly find at edmunds or anywhere else that would indicate that you can buy this car for 24,300. There was a $50 doc fee. There was a trade but it was only thrown in after the price had already been accepted by the dealer. It was 2006 coupe GT manual with premium package and accessory package if you want to look it up.
If you don't believe at least 50% of what you read in prices paid is possible, than I think you are missing out on possible money.
As far as getting the same price on your own goes, what's the point. Maybe you like car shopping, but most people don't. If I tell you the price on a car is 24.5K including $200 for me and it takes you two days of research and negotiating to get 24.5K, than what was the point. Did you save anything. I think the only thing you accomplished is that you now are assured that you are not getting ripped off. Plus I think you are giving too much credit to novices. My cousin is smart, but not a savvy car shopper. I'm sure that there is no way she or her husband would have gotten that price without my help, even if she had 30 days.
And don't forget vultures that many dealers have monthly sales goals/quotas that are necessary to meet to get good allotments of big sellers etc....I think a lot of stores will sell certain models for very little over cost(if any)to meet some of those goals.And of course there is holdback and all that mess. So just because some of you don't want to believe "prices paid" may just mean you either lack imagination or are missing out on some sales. Remember there are lots of ways to hustle those customers! :shades:
Well its this skepticism that I am getting at. If you think that these prices are impossible, than I assume you are not asking for them.
I don't ask for a price, I shop around and have the dealership bid for my business.
I know for a fact that it is possible to get 100% of the holdback and all rebates.
I also know for a fact that the dealer can in reality sell the car for any price they cam. So what?
Truth is that they have goals, and inventory turnover, and monthly sales bonuses to worry about.
True but counting on that is a crap shoot. say the dealership has a quota of 200 cars and you walk in just as car # 200 rolls out the lot you don't have that on your side. Also you could be there when they have 200 cars sold but with a big weekend coming before month end they most likely are not to worried.
For example I bought my cousin a 2006 mitsubishi eclipse last weekend.
What you don't like your cousin?
As far as getting the same price on your own goes, what's the point.
My mom used to say they are called brokers because if you use one you're broker. The point is 95% of the time a broker will actually cost you more than doing it yourself.
Maybe you like car shopping, but most people don't.
Most people don't because they think they are not supposed to. Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
If I tell you the price on a car is 24.5K including $200 for me and it takes you two days of research and negotiating to get 24.5K, than what was the point.
Because if you can get it for $24.5K including $200 for you then $24.5K is $200 too much and I will most likely get it for under 24.5K and do it in the same 24 hours.
I think the only thing you accomplished is that you now are assured that you are not getting ripped off.
No, I know I am being ripped off (see above).
Plus I think you are giving too much credit to novices.
And I think you are not giving enough.
I'm sure that there is no way she or her husband would have gotten that price without my help, even if she had 30 days.
Give them to me for a few hours and most likely they would have.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I see you are in California. That explains your hostile attitude toward car dealers. I'm from there myself and it's a snakepit. Still, there are good stores there that are run by good people. A lot, however are just horrible.
I am getting a bit tired of your constant barbs though...really but I suppose I would be saying the same things based on my CA experiences.
A lot of the "prices paid" never happened! People like to brag and "one up" the person who posted before them. Most are real but some are not.
A customer who walks in ready to pay TMV is a dream customer.
Anybody who shoots for a "C" average price is not going to be a challenge for a salesperson (assuming that TMV is accurate.)
If you want to belive that you can not get an accord for 400 under, that's your belief.
I can't see why a good negotiator shouldn't be able to do this if Honda is still paying a $500 factory-to-dealer marketing incentive for Accord sales. The dealer is still effectively grossing $100 over invoice on that sale.
That has absolutely nothing to do with anything, and simply an attempt to deflect the information being provided on this thread.
The tactics used to sell cars are typical across the US, and are probably quite similar in Canada and elsewhere. It is not at all unique to California. Dealers everywhere try to maximize profits, that is not unique to one pocket in the country.
are up captain. Ready to provide misinformation to the public. :P
Just so silly.
I am going to remove my tracking from this thread so I don't even have the urge to read it anymore.
We as salespeople could provide an interesting insight into how to get a good deal but since nearly anything we say is dismissed as misinformation why even bother.
Collectively we have sold more cars then anyone not in the business is ever going to buy but hey why listen to us we obviously do not know what we are talking about.
I am sure this will get deleted but whatever comments against us by non-sales people will be ignored.
We as salespeople could provide an interesting insight into how to get a good deal
Nothing is stopping you. Instead of defending higher prices in the name of "value", and telling customers to lay all of their cards on the table, you could simply provide some advice to get consumers a bottom-dollar deal.
Ummm,wait a minute...."we as salespeople could provide an interesting insight into how to get a good deal"... I've been warned more than once by the moderator(who I'll admit has been very patient with me)so I won't say what I really think about this statement. I thought your job as a salesman is to get the most amount of profit for the store.So I assume that you are talking about a "good deal" for the dealer. Oh wait that's right you are'nt tracking any more....
Hey guys. I plan on trading in my current car but there is one issue with it... the hood is peeling and rusting. However, the rest of the car looks great for it's age. I am considering repairing the hood (estimated $224) before I trade it in. I'm concerned that the hood alone makes the car look awful and that I won't get the price for the car that I should because of it.
I need serious help. I have read through so many posts here but am really having a hard time with the strategies listed because most of them are for brand new cars. I am not sure how to cross them over to used, but..
Edmunds, Kelley, NADA, Ebay, etc. all have different prices, sometimes significant. How does one know what a good price is on a used car with so many different selling prices?? One person I spoke with suggested to shoot for 1,000 over trade in, is that even reasonable?
What about shopping at non-dealership places (ma and pop)?? They are retail but not really. It was obvious to me that the dealerships took more time detailing and replacing small items that were damaged than these places did (all new tires at dealerships, no cracked windshields at dealerships, etc. ) So do you stick with retail prices or do you use private party, or do you go somewhere in between???
I went to one dealership on Sunday that had this one car listed at KBB retail on line. When I got there they had a sale price of what edmunds TMV would be. The car was in excellent shape on the outside but was in not so great shape on the inside (the carpet was dirty and stained, the speaker cover on the one side was split, the sun visors had these weird rub spots on them possibly from a cd holder but who knows). Does this mean the car is clean or is it just average??? How do you put a value on such things and negotiate the price accordingly??
Something I have noticed is that most used cars have interiors that are in worse shape than the exteriors. What is up with that??? Is that a sign of something wrong?? My car has some dings on the outside, but the interior matches having a few dings on it. My current car has 152k miles on it and it looks nicer on the inside than some of the cars that have only 50k. Seems weird that people take really good care of the exterior but not the interior. Thoughts about this???
How do you send out emails for a used car quote? I have sent a couple out and asked for the Out the Door Price, haven't gotten any responses yet. One I asked about carfax report and maintenance records as well as out the door price, and they said they had both carfax and some maintenance records but then wouldn't give an out the door price. Am I being unreasonable asking for such information?? What could I do better??
When you get a mechanic to check out the car who is typically a good place to take a car to??? Is it unresonable to expect the dealership to give a warranty for at least 30 or 60 days on the cars major parts (engine, electrical, powertrain)?
I also have been saving up some money for this purchase. I have $4500 in cash that I could potentially use for this car purchase. When is a good time to disclose this information??
Any thoughts and tips at this point would be greatly appreciated.
I have $4500 in cash that I could potentially use for this car purchase.
If you have $4,500 to devote to a car purchase, I'd probably buy a $3,500 car with the understanding that is likely going to need some work. Rarely is any used car going to be perfect, but a car in that price range will likely need a fair bit of post-purchase spending, even if it is limited to routine and deferred maintenance.
It sounds as if you need to learn about how to inspect used cars, so that you know what to look for and can steer clear more easily of the notably bad ones. Hopefully, you learn enough to give the car a pretty thorough screening on your own, so that you don't pay mechanics to inspect a long series of what should be obvious lemons.
For a car of that age, I'd say that you should be focused on the basics, i.e. engine, transmission, basic suspension components, electrical system, etc. But that being said, a car that looks good on the outside, but bad on the inside, has probably been reconditioned on its exterior to disguise serious problems or abuse. (Interiors are fairly costly and difficult to recondition, while bondo and bad paint are cheap.) A car with a fresh-looking paint job and new tires but obvious abuse within is NOT a "clean" car by any stretch of the imagination.
I would be hesitant to buy such a well-used car from dealers, as they tend to be expert in patching up rolling bombs that won't detonate until you own them. I'd be more inclined to buy from a private party, who may also be dishonest but will be less likely to know the tricks used to hide major defects. However, do note that there are many home-based dealers who pose as private parties, and these often will perform very cheap repairs that hide some very serious defects, so be careful.
A bona fide private party should have owned the car for awhile, and have some maintenance records that will hopefully provide a paper trail to give you some comfort. One trick I find useful is to begin my initial phone call with a vague, "Hi, I'm calling about the car." If the response to your question is "Which one?", chances are good that you're dealing with one of these faux dealerships.
As far as pricing goes, values will vary greatly based upon age and condition, the price guides become more difficult to use at this stage because the quality of the cars is all over the board, and quality will greatly impact price. I'd gun for something near wholesale KBB and Edmunds, but feel free to pay more if you run across the rare gem that has been reasonably maintained, is in good condition, and has not been treated to significant reconditioning. Reconditioning may seem like a plus, but it often is used to hide defects, so unless you can vouch for the quality of and motivation for the work, i.e. the restoration of a classic car, take it as a bad sign.
Sounds like you might have a fair bit of research ahead of you, but better to do it upfront than do it later, after it's already too late. Good luck.
I can't see why a good negotiator shouldn't be able to do this if Honda is still paying a $500 factory-to-dealer marketing incentive for Accord sales. The dealer is still effectively grossing $100 over invoice on that sale.
While the Accord is not a hot car like a Prius or the new Pontiac convertibles there is still enough demand for them that getting a rock bottom price for them will be difficult.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
First piece of advice is to put a few buck and some elbow grease to fix up and clean the car. If spending the extra $224 can increase the price by more than that then do it. A lot of times that can be a gamble as you may not get your complete investment back. But even if you don't get it all back odds are that it will sell quicker.
Selling it privately will get you more for it but you will have to deal with people calling you and wasting your time coming over to test drive it and such. If you do make sure you offer no guarantees either actual or implied.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I'm surprised you can get it fixed for that little money.
A dealer will assume it's going to take more than that to have that hood repainted properly so you will probably get dinged more than the amount of that estimate.
On the other hand, unless it's a first class job, it won't match the rest of the car. This will cause people to think the car has been in an accident.
Me, I would get it fixed since the way a car looks is the main thing to most people. Just make sure it's a quality body shop and not one of the chains.
Comments
I spent about two 5 minute phonecalls with my saleslady after inital contact and getting an estimate. Both times I had to wait for her, "I'll have to talk to the manager" call back...which wasn't very long.
The first $140 dropped I called and told her that her original in store estimate(without measuring) was about $250 higher than the estimate after measuring. I asked if she could come down on the price as we were not wanting to spend that much. She agree after speaking with the manager.
After her first offer to drop the price, I told her I thought it was still a little high and I would think it over. I told her I would let her know something by Friday...which was about 4 days away. On Friday I called telling her I was not ready to make a decision, but I prepared if she insinuated some sort of negotiation. She mentioned the quality of their carpet (it is a reputable well establish store.)I told her some other estimates I had obtained at other stores with similar carpet was priced less(which it was)and if she would drop another $100 I would come over and sign the contract. After speaking with her manager she agreed.
Now, as I said my earlier post. If I hadn't been under my own time constraints, i.e wife waving a frying pan at my direction telling me to get off the pot and buy some carpet, I would have gone for more.
Nice to hear, though, that a ten-minute investment got you $240. Putting that through my trusty calculator, that works out to be $1440 per hour. (And the money you spend is comprised of post-tax dollars earned from your income, so you'd probably need to make about $2,100 per hour from your job in order to net an equivalant take-home amount from your paycheck.)
I'd say that $1,440 per hour is a pretty good rate of return for most people. For some reason, people like to make this "I don't want to spend two hours to get $100" argument, when my experience (for whatever that's worth) tells me that I'm generally going to be able to gain concessions at a rate of perhaps $1,000-2,000 per hour of additional time investment. Not impressive if you happen to be Bill Gates, but for most of us, I'd say that this is a pretty good use of time.
My counterpoint to all that is that it is easy to sidestep the control issue, but it is not necessarily desirable to try to do this by getting into an overt wrestling match for control. If you focus on gaining or resisting control, you simply create a battleground over something that doesn't require a fight, and which creates a distraction that doesn't help your dealmaking. Since the seller ultimately can't take control unless the buyer allows it to be taken, I see no reason to lock horns over something that I will maintain by default.
One of my core strategies is to allow the salesperson to maintain the illusion that s/he is in control for as long as possible. Since you know that this is something that the saleperson aspires to reach (this is a milestone on the road of the deal, as a conquered customer can be softened up for more profits), it's a good teaser to give away fairly early on. Once they believe that they have gained control, they will tend to let their guards down a bit, which in turn allows them to reach their "point of no return" (the point at which letting you walk becomes a major sacrifice which must be prevented) that much sooner. By the time that it becomes obvious that you have controlled the game all along, they have invested greatly into getting your deal closed, and will be very reluctant to let it die.
By the way, this basic concept works for more than just car sales. I find this methodology useful for buying from any commissioned salesperson. Handled properly, it is very easy to manage and will help you to avoid direct confrontation virtually every time.
Once in awhile (not often) I'll get one who tries to control me or decieve me. I can spot these people in an instant. I'll usually end up selling these people a car but it won't be much fun.
The "Bell Curve" theory applies to my customers. Probably 20% of my customers stand out as being just great people that were a pleasure to deal with. These people are like friends. They would be welcome in our home and I would love to have them as neighbors. The amount of profit that was generated from the sale has no bearing on how I feel about them.
The second group in the "bell" would include around 70% of the people I have sold cars to. They were good to deal with, they will stop by my office sometimes while in service etc. Most of my customers are in that group.
That leaves the 10% that I hope I never see again. They were cold, unfriendly and distrustful. They lied to me about their credit, condition of their trade etc. Just made the sale a miserable one.
Actually, that number may be smaller than 10%. Out of the two thousand plus cars I've sold I can think of maybe ten customers that would fall in that catagory.
It's not all about money...for me. I don't have to sell cars to pay my bills.
I agree about the road noise comment but the later models are much improved, especially in the 2006 Accords.
A lot of it has to do with the tires. Honda must choose the noisest tires they can find. A tire replacement works wonders!
Does this sound like a good idea? I have been to this dealership in the past and I've used their service department several times. I was thinking I could get a feel for the place and the salesmen there. It might also make me feel a bit more comfortable on the day I plan to purchase.
No, that is not a good idea.
There is no need to waste anyone's time by going under any kind of guise. If you know exactly what kind of car you want, then go to the dealer and make an offer or try to negotiate your best price. SImple as that.
Anyways, I was looking for some thoughts from consumers. My original business plan was just to find people who were shopping for cars, find the vehicle they were looking for, get some quotes, and negotiate a lower price if I could. I figured I could get dealers to pay me a $100 referral fee. However I found that most people has been on the internet and were getting the same quotes as me. Furthemore I couldn't really negotiate, because its almost impossible to do so if you are not commited to buying a car. Since my customers were still shopping, it was hard to negotiate on their behalf.
Now my newest idea is to have a target price. A customer chooses a car and I give them a target price, which is very competitive. For instance on an Accord, I'm quoting $200 under invoice. This is below carsdirect and way below edmunds tmv. The problem is that I can't guarantee that I can get the car in the model you want at your location for $200 under invoice. So instead my idea is to have customers commit to that price in writing and give me one business day to get them that price. I take no security deposit as I figure not many will trust me. But I do write that if you reneg than I'll bill you $200 for time and effort. I do allow you out without penalty if there is a problem with the car, or financing, or if trade value is unacceptable. Basically I just contractually tie you up for 24 hours, but if I come through you get a really good no haggle price.
My question is how would you as a buyer feel about this. The way I see it is that the worst that can happen is you waste 24 hours. But I suppose maybe you just feel it's easier to call up a dealer and offer 200 under invoice. I guess I feel that I'm far more likely to get them to agree than most people, but if you stick to your guns my guess is that you will get the deal. Also I'm sure people feel skeptical and people think its fishy, but I'm looking for specific things that I can overcome.
So if you came across me and I told you that I need 24 hours but I can most likely get you 200 under invoice, but I'd also want your commitment in writing.
What would you think if you had not test driven the accord yet?
What would you think if you had test driven, and they offered you $1000 over invoice so you went home.
What would you think if you then went home got on the internet and asked dealers for quotes. Your lowest quotes then cam back at invoice.
Dealers: How would you react if I came to you and said that my customer is willing to pay 200 under invoice, but I want an additional $200 for bringing you the deal. Assume that you want to make a deal at $400 under invoice, and that I will take my business elsewhere if you decline. I also refuse to give you his name and number until you put acceptance in writing. Should I demand acceptance in writing, or should I not worry about dealer cutting me out of the loop once I give him customers name and number. I'd assume that I can trust you all, but I've worked for some pretty shady dealers.
I realize that people on this board aren't average consumers, but I'm also trying to advertise nationally, so most people who can find me are already pretty savvy.
Even if I am just a broker, I'm just trying to the most consumer helpful broker.
I personally don't understand this concern about "wasting anyone's time". You are out shopping for a complex, expensive one-and-a-half ton device, so you have every reason to get comfortable with your purchase choice. If the salesperson feels that you wasted his time by browsing on the lot or whatever, that's his attitude problem, not yours.
I think that it's perfectly fine to do a reconnaissance mission if you find it necessary. If you read back through the thread about using time pressures in order to help your negotiations, this is also your opportunity to meet one of the salespeople, get his/her contact info, and to begin laying the groundwork for getting his/her investment into your future deal. Feel free to not make the purchase at the first encounter, don't be too generous with personal information (although don't appear to be deliberately guarded) and absolutely take the brochures, etc. if you want to.
If car buying were easy it wouldn't be so much fun.
Car shoppers usually get the vague responses from salespeople of: customer service, treat with respect, they treat them the way they would like to be treated etc. etc. But, you salesmen out there must have a plan when that customer steps onto the lot. i.e greet, establish repore, test drive, more repore, offer car at MSRP...customer doesn't want to go MSRP...wants at invoice. Whatya do? Specifically what do you say, and steps you use, to get a higher price?
In understanding what you salesmen do to try to "maximize" dealer profit, you can help the rest of us out in getting a better deal when we go "car shopping". Which is why you came to this discussion in the first place...right?
Its a good ideal if you just want brochures, but you won't get much of a feel for the dealership and practically none for the sales force if you don't interact with them.
Since you have been there before and used their service department you should have some feel for the dealership. But maybe a little internet research on the dealership might bring to light some issues.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Also using a broker adds another cost center between you and the manufacturer which will almost certainly add to the price of the car. You won't work for free.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You will be dealing with flakey "buyers" and car dealers who won't be at all receptive.
Car Brokers are all but gone. Sites such as this one have really eliminated a need for them or services such as yours.
Maybe some of the others here will feel differently?
You could also go back to Service Department and ask one of the Advisors who they would reccommend. Ask who has been there the longest. This is probably the best way.
Also, there is a guy there that my mom's boss buys his work trucks from (fleet manager?). She said he'd give me a good deal. It's just my mom's boss's salesman, so why should I think I'm special enough to get a particularly good deal from him?
I might be thinking about all this way too much. Information overload :sick:
The fact that you don't have access to the inventory at wholesale puts you at a disadvantage. Compared to a dealer, your margins are squeezed before you've started. You may not have the brick-and-mortar costs, but you'll more than lose any advantage from that with the higher product cost, costly marketing and relatively low volume. And given the level of competition (including some branded variants such as CarsDirect, AAA and Costco), marketing costs would be quite high.
If you really want to do this, I'd suggest approaching it as a sideline that you build largely from word-of-mouth. You won't make a ton of money (and you may very well earn next-to-nothing), but if you build a reputation, you might become a sort-of go-to guy. In this case, I would position it not as a low-price model, but based upon service, convenience, etc., so that you have fewer time constraints and your margins can be higher.
That being said, this last scenario still doesn't help you with the aforementioned inventory problem, and unless you can find a way to carve the dealerships out of it or get them to cooperate with you, I see their participation as being a negative from your standpoint. If you could solve this inventory/ sourcing problem, there might be something to it, but I can't see how you'd manage that.
You shouldn't.
Instead if thinking so much about the dealer, you should be researching prices. The Prices Paid forum helped me a great deal.
When we were ready to buy our Honda last year, I was prepared to pay the usual $200 over invoice. I looked at the Pries Paid fourm, and some people claimed they bought a Honda for $500 under invoice. I found that price hard to believe, so we went to the dealer, offered that amount, and they accepted.
The Prices Paid forum saved us $700.
I guess I disagree with you a little though. The only place I've ever found with truly great information is the prices paid forum. In 4 months of selling, I probably had over 200 customers, and i don't think one had ever seen the prices paid forum. I worked floor sales and estimate that 1 in 5 of my cutomers had been to edmunds. But edmunds is quite misleading. If you look up invoice and TMV at edmunds, most will come away feeling that if they pay a little over invoice that is a good deal. But I could probably beat TMV on an accord by $1000, by $2000 on a pilot, and by $2500 on a sonata.
Some people know that TMV is way to high, but most don't. And it's extremely rare to come across a customer who believes they can buy below invoice. Most feel that is our cost and they need to pay a little above that. Whenever i would stumble with a customer, I'd just show them the invoice, ask them for $200 profit and that almost always worked. Plus edmunds is full of mistakes. Its missing $1000
dealer cash on pilot and acura TL for example.
In fact i think the only customers I ever got who paid rock bottom prices, did so because they shopped multiple dealers and pitted them against each other. That strategy can work, but its a lot of work. But basically i never see anyone come in with enough research to shop only my dealer, and get a rock bottom price. I could convince almost anybody that they needed to pay above invoice. You'd also be surprised how many people I can get to pay above sticker.
Anyways, I do appreciate your advice. I know that there are some people out there who can do just as well as me, but I don't think there are as many people as you think. I only worked at a honda dealer in Houston for two months, but I only know of one car that we sold below invoice, out of like 300. I do know that they will sell below invoice if they have to though.
I used to sell Honda's also. An accord for 400 under can easily be done though. Check out the prices paid forum. Lots of people are buying accords for 400 under. I'm pretty sure I can get a customer 400 under on a common car in a major market.
Do sites like this make it easy to buy a car, or are they misleading. I would think that a novice would come to this site, read about TMV and say that would be a reasonable price. But I think you can beat TMV by a grand or even two in many cases. Its even worse on some used cars. Dealer retail on a used 2006 sonata is about 4000 higher than what you can buy a new one for. In fact trade in value on that car is about 1500 higher than the brand new selling price.
I agree that car customers are flaky. most have no idea what they want, don't know how much to pay, and take forever getting ready to buy. If youre in the car business you just deal with it though. Its not any different from the sales side.
As other posters have said, there is so much information available to car buyers in the U.S. that there should be no need for a car brokering service. From my experience Carsdirect.com is little more than a lead generating service and for people who really don't want to negotiate there is Cosctco and AAA.
Where car brokering does seem to work well is in my homeland (check the flag!). There is very little pricing information on-line and it's just not in our nature to haggle over price.
I don't spend much time there because it's hard for me to bite my tongue sometimes.
Some of those "prices paid" never happened. If they did happen, the store underallowed on their trade...something.
I'll never know how these TMV numbers are arrived at. We sure don't devulge that kind of information, and I think if most recent buyers were asked what they paid they either wouldn't know, they would guess, or tell the psrson asking the question..." That's none of your business"
I know that is what I would do.
For the most part, it can be a pretty good indicator.
I would take anything said in a prices paid forum with a grain of salt. I would discount the ultra low prices right from the start. Unless I could see the paperwork and/or there was no trade in it could be complicated getting the truth. Sure they paid $300 under invoice but thats with a $1,500 rebate, they were given $250 less than they should have gotten for their trade in and the paid $350 in doc fees.
But edmunds is quite misleading. If you look up invoice and TMV at edmunds,
Thats why you would use them as a guide and shop around. Also remember that using a proven negotiation technique will get you to that near lowest price.
Anyways, I do appreciate your advice. I know that there are some people out there who can do just as well as me, but I don't think there are as many people as you think.
I really don't think there are to many that can. But give them to me for a day or two and they will get close, close enough that they wouldn't need a broker.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There are too many examples to discuss, but using an Accord is easy. You said why would anybody sell such a popular car below invoice. Answer is becasue they have to. Its not like you have to line up to buy an Accord. There are thousands available. When you have 15 dealers, it is cut throat. I don't know where you work, but there are many cities where you can easily buy an accord for 400 under invoice. Open road honda is quoting them on their website at less than that even after destination and doc fee are added. Carsdirect is also quoting less than that with an atlanta zip code.
If you want to belive that you can not get an accord for 400 under, that's your belief. It would be the same as most salesmen I know. But I'm willing to bet that in many cities I can buy it for 400 under.
As far as TMV goes, both dealers I've worked at will sell all cars all day at TMV. A customer who walks in ready to pay TMV is a dream customer. I'm not sure why your experience is different. Maybe you work in a smaller place with little competition. At the Nissan dealer I worked at we'd give invoice minus rebates minutes holdback minus another couple of hundred.
I guess this is why I think I'm actually useful. If you think that paying tmv or even a few hundred over invoice is a good deal, than I can save you money and you don't have to do anything at all. I just bought my cousin a mitsubishi eclipse last week at 1700 under TMV.
Well its this skepticism that I am getting at. If you think that these prices are impossible, than I assume you are not asking for them. How do you know its not possible.
I can tell you from experience selling Nissans that I sold many cars where I gave the rebate, and gave invoice minus holdback. Sometimes even a couple hundred dollars more. I know for a fact that it is possible to get 100% of the holdback and all rebates. This is without a trade and only paying a $50 doc fee.
There were a few deals that I just thought were impossible, and my manager would never go for it. But I was surprised when they did accept it. Truth is that they have goals, and inventory turnover, and monthly sales bonuses to worry about. They have more going on than they let the salesmen know, and more than any consumer (even myself) know about. For example I haven't been able to figure out what kind of dealer cash there is on altima besides rebate, but I know there is a hidden incentive. If I had a altima for sale with a 21,500 MSRP, 20,000 invoice and 1750 rebate, what do you think you can pay. I'll bet you could get 20K-1750rebate-600holdback-250. That's 17,400. If you don't think this is possible, than I doubt that you will get it.
What I am getting at is that these deals are out there. For example I bought my cousin a 2006 mitsubishi eclipse last weekend. MSRP: 27.9K, price paid was 24.3K after 1000 rebate. The invoice on this car was 26.2K according to edmunds. So I was still at 900 under invoice. There is no activity on the prices paid forum and TMV was 25.9K after rebate. What could you possibly find at edmunds or anywhere else that would indicate that you can buy this car for 24,300. There was a $50 doc fee. There was a trade but it was only thrown in after the price had already been accepted by the dealer. It was 2006 coupe GT manual with premium package and accessory package if you want to look it up.
If you don't believe at least 50% of what you read in prices paid is possible, than I think you are missing out on possible money.
As far as getting the same price on your own goes, what's the point. Maybe you like car shopping, but most people don't. If I tell you the price on a car is 24.5K including $200 for me and it takes you two days of research and negotiating to get 24.5K, than what was the point. Did you save anything. I think the only thing you accomplished is that you now are assured that you are not getting ripped off. Plus I think you are giving too much credit to novices. My cousin is smart, but not a savvy car shopper. I'm sure that there is no way she or her husband would have gotten that price without my help, even if she had 30 days.
I don't ask for a price, I shop around and have the dealership bid for my business.
I know for a fact that it is possible to get 100% of the holdback and all rebates.
I also know for a fact that the dealer can in reality sell the car for any price they cam. So what?
Truth is that they have goals, and inventory turnover, and monthly sales bonuses to worry about.
True but counting on that is a crap shoot. say the dealership has a quota of 200 cars and you walk in just as car # 200 rolls out the lot you don't have that on your side. Also you could be there when they have 200 cars sold but with a big weekend coming before month end they most likely are not to worried.
For example I bought my cousin a 2006 mitsubishi eclipse last weekend.
What you don't like your cousin?
As far as getting the same price on your own goes, what's the point.
My mom used to say they are called brokers because if you use one you're broker. The point is 95% of the time a broker will actually cost you more than doing it yourself.
Maybe you like car shopping, but most people don't.
Most people don't because they think they are not supposed to. Its a self fulfilling prophecy.
If I tell you the price on a car is 24.5K including $200 for me and it takes you two days of research and negotiating to get 24.5K, than what was the point.
Because if you can get it for $24.5K including $200 for you then $24.5K is $200 too much and I will most likely get it for under 24.5K and do it in the same 24 hours.
I think the only thing you accomplished is that you now are assured that you are not getting ripped off.
No, I know I am being ripped off (see above).
Plus I think you are giving too much credit to novices.
And I think you are not giving enough.
I'm sure that there is no way she or her husband would have gotten that price without my help, even if she had 30 days.
Give them to me for a few hours and most likely they would have.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I wish you well in your venture.
I am getting a bit tired of your constant barbs though...really but I suppose I would be saying the same things based on my CA experiences.
A lot of the "prices paid" never happened! People like to brag and "one up" the person who posted before them. Most are real but some are not.
Anybody who shoots for a "C" average price is not going to be a challenge for a salesperson (assuming that TMV is accurate.)
If you want to belive that you can not get an accord for 400 under, that's your belief.
I can't see why a good negotiator shouldn't be able to do this if Honda is still paying a $500 factory-to-dealer marketing incentive for Accord sales. The dealer is still effectively grossing $100 over invoice on that sale.
That has absolutely nothing to do with anything, and simply an attempt to deflect the information being provided on this thread.
The tactics used to sell cars are typical across the US, and are probably quite similar in Canada and elsewhere. It is not at all unique to California. Dealers everywhere try to maximize profits, that is not unique to one pocket in the country.
:P
Just so silly.
I am going to remove my tracking from this thread so I don't even have the urge to read it anymore.
We as salespeople could provide an interesting insight into how to get a good deal but since nearly anything we say is dismissed as misinformation why even bother.
Collectively we have sold more cars then anyone not in the business is ever going to buy but hey why listen to us we obviously do not know what we are talking about.
I am sure this will get deleted but whatever comments against us by non-sales people will be ignored.
What is the worst thing that could happen if I offer that price for a car? My offer would be refused. Big deal.
How much time does it take to go to a dealer and make an offer and have it refused? From my experience, about 10 minutes.
I took the lowest price mentioned in the Pries Paid forum, offered that amount, and it was accepted.
Nothing is stopping you. Instead of defending higher prices in the name of "value", and telling customers to lay all of their cards on the table, you could simply provide some advice to get consumers a bottom-dollar deal.
I've been warned more than once by the moderator(who I'll admit has been very patient with me)so I won't say what I really think about this statement.
I thought your job as a salesman is to get the most amount of profit for the store.So I assume that you are talking about a "good deal" for the dealer. Oh wait that's right you are'nt tracking any more....
Here's some pictures: http://www.carspace.com/hunnydew
Should I bother with repairing the hood? Do you think it will be worth it? I'm also considering fixing it then selling it privatly.
Thanks
Edmunds, Kelley, NADA, Ebay, etc. all have different prices, sometimes significant. How does one know what a good price is on a used car with so many different selling prices?? One person I spoke with suggested to shoot for 1,000 over trade in, is that even reasonable?
What about shopping at non-dealership places (ma and pop)?? They are retail but not really. It was obvious to me that the dealerships took more time detailing and replacing small items that were damaged than these places did (all new tires at dealerships, no cracked windshields at dealerships, etc. ) So do you stick with retail prices or do you use private party, or do you go somewhere in between???
I went to one dealership on Sunday that had this one car listed at KBB retail on line. When I got there they had a sale price of what edmunds TMV would be. The car was in excellent shape on the outside but was in not so great shape on the inside (the carpet was dirty and stained, the speaker cover on the one side was split, the sun visors had these weird rub spots on them possibly from a cd holder but who knows). Does this mean the car is clean or is it just average??? How do you put a value on such things and negotiate the price accordingly??
Something I have noticed is that most used cars have interiors that are in worse shape than the exteriors. What is up with that??? Is that a sign of something wrong?? My car has some dings on the outside, but the interior matches having a few dings on it. My current car has 152k miles on it and it looks nicer on the inside than some of the cars that have only 50k. Seems weird that people take really good care of the exterior but not the interior. Thoughts about this???
How do you send out emails for a used car quote? I have sent a couple out and asked for the Out the Door Price, haven't gotten any responses yet. One I asked about carfax report and maintenance records as well as out the door price, and they said they had both carfax and some maintenance records but then wouldn't give an out the door price. Am I being unreasonable asking for such information?? What could I do better??
When you get a mechanic to check out the car who is typically a good place to take a car to??? Is it unresonable to expect the dealership to give a warranty for at least 30 or 60 days on the cars major parts (engine, electrical, powertrain)?
I also have been saving up some money for this purchase. I have $4500 in cash that I could potentially use for this car purchase. When is a good time to disclose this information??
Any thoughts and tips at this point would be greatly appreciated.
If you have $4,500 to devote to a car purchase, I'd probably buy a $3,500 car with the understanding that is likely going to need some work. Rarely is any used car going to be perfect, but a car in that price range will likely need a fair bit of post-purchase spending, even if it is limited to routine and deferred maintenance.
It sounds as if you need to learn about how to inspect used cars, so that you know what to look for and can steer clear more easily of the notably bad ones. Hopefully, you learn enough to give the car a pretty thorough screening on your own, so that you don't pay mechanics to inspect a long series of what should be obvious lemons.
For a car of that age, I'd say that you should be focused on the basics, i.e. engine, transmission, basic suspension components, electrical system, etc. But that being said, a car that looks good on the outside, but bad on the inside, has probably been reconditioned on its exterior to disguise serious problems or abuse. (Interiors are fairly costly and difficult to recondition, while bondo and bad paint are cheap.) A car with a fresh-looking paint job and new tires but obvious abuse within is NOT a "clean" car by any stretch of the imagination.
I would be hesitant to buy such a well-used car from dealers, as they tend to be expert in patching up rolling bombs that won't detonate until you own them. I'd be more inclined to buy from a private party, who may also be dishonest but will be less likely to know the tricks used to hide major defects. However, do note that there are many home-based dealers who pose as private parties, and these often will perform very cheap repairs that hide some very serious defects, so be careful.
A bona fide private party should have owned the car for awhile, and have some maintenance records that will hopefully provide a paper trail to give you some comfort. One trick I find useful is to begin my initial phone call with a vague, "Hi, I'm calling about the car." If the response to your question is "Which one?", chances are good that you're dealing with one of these faux dealerships.
As far as pricing goes, values will vary greatly based upon age and condition, the price guides become more difficult to use at this stage because the quality of the cars is all over the board, and quality will greatly impact price. I'd gun for something near wholesale KBB and Edmunds, but feel free to pay more if you run across the rare gem that has been reasonably maintained, is in good condition, and has not been treated to significant reconditioning. Reconditioning may seem like a plus, but it often is used to hide defects, so unless you can vouch for the quality of and motivation for the work, i.e. the restoration of a classic car, take it as a bad sign.
Sounds like you might have a fair bit of research ahead of you, but better to do it upfront than do it later, after it's already too late. Good luck.
While the Accord is not a hot car like a Prius or the new Pontiac convertibles there is still enough demand for them that getting a rock bottom price for them will be difficult.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Selling it privately will get you more for it but you will have to deal with people calling you and wasting your time coming over to test drive it and such. If you do make sure you offer no guarantees either actual or implied.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
A dealer will assume it's going to take more than that to have that hood repainted properly so you will probably get dinged more than the amount of that estimate.
On the other hand, unless it's a first class job, it won't match the rest of the car. This will cause people to think the car has been in an accident.
Me, I would get it fixed since the way a car looks is the main thing to most people. Just make sure it's a quality body shop and not one of the chains.