snake....so let me understand....you make an offer of invoice.
No I don't make an offer, I never have and I never will, I have the dealer make the offer. Its not hard to do.
Run around town to 4 other dealers.
Most I ever have gone to are two, and its always a good I deal to let the dealer know that you have alternatives.
You go back to first dealer. Your car is already gone.
For the most part dealers have more than one of each car. That is unless you want that Accord in the butt ugly color that is in an engine/transmission/option combo that no one ever wants.
Or, the dealer makes the first offer and says "just look at the MSRP sticker....that's what we're asking".
A few things here, first unless its a hot car (currently the Prius and the G6 Convertible fall into this) no dealer will try to sell you at MSRP. Secondly you have started negotiations and if you know what you're doing (and its not hard) you get them to counter their own offer. Thats when the price starts going down.
You're trying to make the deal more complicated than it needs to be
No more complicated or troublesome than going from dealer to dealer making a take it or leave it offer. FWIW I don't think I spent more than 25-30 minutes getting a good price. Far less time then making an offer at one dealership getting refused and driving to another, and generally at a lower price.
If anyone has done their homework, the deal should be quick, painless, and good for both sides.
I agree, using the Bobst method where you make a take it or leave it offer is quick, may or may not be painless (most likely will pay more for the car) and good for both sides. What Socal and I advocate is also quick painless and good for both sides if one has done their homework.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
However, by making it clear to the seller that you are prioritizing speed, you are setting yourself up to pay too much, because you have identified a constraint that will make it easier to get you to pay more than you would have otherwise needed to -- the impulse to "get it over with" will lock you into a higher price, because your reluctance to leave or continue shopping is obvious and will be used against you.
Very true even if you don't let it be known to the dealer it will be a constraint you have in your own mind. You must have the mindset that you will take as long as it takes, not that you will spend a long time just that you don't feel the need to wrap things up.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You must have the mindset that you will take as long as it takes, not that you will spend a long time just that you don't feel the need to wrap things up.
Exactly. And ironically, not caring how long it takes is the very best way to ensure that it won't take very long. Those who are concerned about hurrying up will probably spend more time cutting the deal than would those who are indifferent.
When I bought an '05 Civic last Sept, the dealer charged me $150 for a tag transfer. But I did get a check from them for about $45 later on. They listed the actual reg. fees and also $25 for a 3rd party company that did the paper work. That $25 ticked me off, so I wrote them a letter and they sent me another check for $25. The $150, they originally told me was for "actual state fees".
Your salesperson DID give the first offer. that was the "big bold MSRP". If you want to pay less, it is up to YOU to make the first offer!
Let's say you are selling your own used car. You have it advertised in the paper for 7500.00. Someone comes and looks at it...." What will you take for it?"
Isellhondas, I'm sorry but I have read several times that the buyer should never make the first offer and I assumed that they offer was made verbally. That was what I was referring to when I asked the question. Some of us aren't as experienced at car buying as others are.
Your salesperson DID give the first offer. that was the "big bold MSRP". If you want to pay less, it is up to YOU to make the first offer!
The MSRP is just window dressing, I wouldn't even pay attenion to it. For anything but a very hot car, it's pretty much irrelevant and should have no bearing on what you should pay. (And very few cars are hot.) Your best effort should be to focus on invoice and whatever incentives are available, both those payable to the dealer and to the customer.
If you read back through the thread, you will learn why naming the first number is not to the advantage of the party doing it. The whole purpose of the window sticker is to get the customer to begin negotiating from a much higher point than is generally necessary.
Don't fall for that gimmick. There's no rule that says that you have to make the first (or even the second or subsequent) offer, or that you are obligated to counter every counter with a higher number. A good negotiation will create mechanisms that pull the price toward your direction (in this case, downward), and the window sticker is not one way to get there.
How do you get the dealer to make the *second* offer as well as the first. Because you know that the first thing they'll say is, "Well, we're offering the car at this price. How's that seem to you."
I mean, do you just say "It's too high for me. How much can you bring it down?" Or do you go for the "Well, I was thinking of offering you $100 for it. Let's negotiate." route?
It's easier to say "do this" than to give examples of *how* to do that, and those examples have been few in this thread.
And it's that lack of clear examples that have been getting people frustrated in this thread.
Should the dealer automatically refund the unused portion of your license fee?
Many states now require the dealer to refund any overcharge on tag fees. New York requires a refund within sixty days, but I still had to ask my Ford dealer for it after ninety days when I returned for service.
Maximum paperwork fees and tag fee refund policies are usually highlighted in the sales contract as a matter of law.
After looking back, I'd say that the poster in #1107 and the follow-up posts provides a good example of how to go about how to get the first offer and counteroffers without making one yourself.
Among other methods, hemming-and-hawing, failure-to-understand and asking-for-more can be effective techniques if used appropriately. There isn't one precise way to go about these, and you need to have flexibility in order to be able to deal with the style of the other side, but as would any good negotiator or salesperson, it helps if you prepare for various tactics/ gambits in advance that can help you deal with likely scenarios.
graphicguy - don't do it. just walk away. i've been round and round with these two. They don't understand or agree with the method you and I apparently subscribe to and we don't agree with theirs. Just walk away!
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
It just amazes me how one person can keep saying the same things over and over and over...
I guess the car salesman doesn't like it when a member presents good ideas and information on negotiating and saving money?
I can understand why as the end effect would be taking money out of your pocket. But, this discussion is called "Purchsing Strategies"...and how to save money is what it is about.
I enjoy reading this "one persons" posts over and over...because it is worthwhile and benefical. Maybe not to you...but to most of us.
interesting development on this truck. Their latest ad came out today and the price has jumped up 1k. Luckily I still have a copy with the lower price when I go in. Any insight to why they did this?
I must be missing something. I don't see Isell trying to silence anyone. I for one respect his opinions, and have for years. For goodness sakes, we are talking about buying a car, not negotiating a treaty with a foreign government. I would bet that in most cases, the difference between a well informed consumer's idea of a good price and the dealers "see you later", "let them walk", "bottom line" isn't more than a couple of hundred dollars. Control is something every seller needs. You can't let the buyer run the transaction if you want to stay in business. Is there something unusual about that? Of course not. Do dealers make money? Of course they do. They have big expenses. They want to be around tomorrow. All this talk about defanging, gimmicks, mechanisms, tactics, and gambits, makes my head spin. It really should be quite simple. 1. Get the dealers best price. 2. Compare that to your best offer. 3. If you're not happy, keep looking. Course, what do I know. Just been buying cars for about 45 years. Never felt like I got a bad deal. If I did, I wouldn't have bought the car. Did I squeeze every last penny? Probably not, but then, life is short. Got more important things to worry about. Peace....
There is nothing wrong with the desire to get a good price...the problems stem from the methods used to get that good price. I'm sure somebody will pop in and say something like..."well, dealers do it so I have to, etc..." my answer to that is simple. Bad behavior doesn't justify more bad behavior.
All this talk about defanging, gimmicks, mechanisms, tactics, and gambits, makes my head spin. It really should be quite simple. 1. Get the dealers best price. 2. Compare that to your best offer. 3. If you're not happy, keep looking. Course, what do I know. Just been buying cars for about 45 years. Never felt like I got a bad deal. If I did, I wouldn't have bought the car. Did I squeeze every last penny? Probably not, but then, life is short. Got more important things to worry about. Peace....
Well said.
What I don't like about certain posters on here is there, "my way is the best way attitude."
There are plenty of different ways to do almost anything and get about the same result and negotations are no different.
I could run my old shop three or four different ways and get about the same result. I could run my UPS opperation several different ways and get about the same result.
I could negotiate vehicles on either side of things many different ways and get the same result. I just choose to be open and honest in my communication now matter which side I am on. I know this will sound cliche but that is the Land Rover way and if you don't belive it just check out the albums at my carspace page.
All this talk about defanging, gimmicks, mechanisms, tactics, and gambits, makes my head spin.
If everyone shared your perspective, this thread would not exist. It is no secret that many consumers dread car shopping, because it is complex and confusing, and because they perceive dealer tactics to be intimidating.
If you don't agree with that, that's fine for you, but not everyone is in your boat. There are others who obviously feel differently (their posts make it clear that they want the help), and some of us are willing to offer the help. I can't see why salespeople should feel threatened by that, as many of them obviously are.
Well, I decided to "take one for the team" and looked back in the posts... way back. For anyone interested, I found post #538 and #666 very helpful. Not to say that the others weren't, but those jumped at me.
I will continue reading and let you know of any more good ones.
My thanks to Snake and Jipster for your kind words. I sincerely hope that we have all helped out our fellow consumers in some way. (I personally really enjoy cutting deals, and I hope that others can also find ways to take some pleasure in it.)
It is no secret that many consumers dread car shopping, because it is complex and confusing, and because they perceive dealer tactics to be intimidating.
That's because most consumers are complete idiots. If you have any doubt whatsoever, just get a job in a retail establisment for 6 mos, any retail establisment. You start to wonder, "are people really this stupid or do they just put take their brains out of their heads when they leave the house?"
Only working retail can you hear this question, "How big is your 7" pizza?" Not just once, or twice...but 30 times in a single day!
Whats really scary is that we are agreeing, so many times we went head to head on things.
That's a good thing, we all don't need to agree on everything. I say: Let everyone toss his position out for examination, and let the readers decide for themselves what lessons they want to take from it.
Not really because anyone can say they are anyone from anyplace. While I say I am from Chicago I could be from Seattle or a teenager from Newark. Or even more sinister I could be a prototype of a HAL 9000 or a Colossus
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
What I don't like about certain posters on here is there, "my way is the best way attitude."
There are plenty of different ways to do almost anything and get about the same result and negotations are no different.
BINGO!!
A self-righteous attitude is what seems to get people riled up more than anything. It even overshadows any good intentions of the messages and makes this topic into much more of a bashing fest than it should be.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
The customer relationship process is consistent. First, the salesperson will pretend to be your buddy, in an effort to find your hot buttons and reduce your resistance. But if you show any hesitancy or resistance, they will not hesitate to get nasty. Intimidation tactics are par for the course.
I drive people crazy, because I am always in the middle of the road and am always playing devils advocate.
Socal, I must say that regardless of the abundance of prolix posts you do, you are a articulate writer and have many things to say that help people. I do believe you do send some people off course with that abundancy, and stir them away from what is important in this forum, that is getting a great deal on a car that the consumer is happy with.
Perception is everything, and perception is different for everyone. And not to beat a dead horse, but rock bottom price is not a good deal all the time, for everyperson. What you preach is not getting a good deal, but getting a good price. And with out making this too long, peoples needs are different. It is sooooo easy to get a good deal on a car if you approach in a certain way, and although your tatics are catlike and stealt and effective, its not for every consumer and the people in this forum should not be chastised for paying a little more than you would.
As for your opinion of salespeople, Your statement above is way off. You many times denounce our advice in these forums saying its dealer slanted. Well we are dealer of course it will be. But the dealers that participate in this forum are examples of the salespeople you would want to help you and do things the right way and do not use the gabits and trickery and tatics you often speak of. [non-permissible content removed] salespeople do not participate in these types of forums, because they are too busy smoking ciggarttes, and standing outside waiting for an up. We are professionals. As for us "pretending to be your buddy" yes I am sure that is the case because there are people out there are not polished communicators and maybe genuinely trying to be friendly (or not) and just do not have social skills. I am very friendly to everyone because that is my nature. I usually try to find a common ground with all client to relax them because I know the last dealer they were at looked like people who would put their kid on a milk carton and I know that is a big decision. It is the second biggest purchase to a house. I want them to feel comfortable. Plus, I have to make a first impression to a STRANGER, and I want them to like me and want them to be happy with their purchase decsion.
I ask you, I implore you to walk a block in our shoes, even for just one day, and you would have a complete different opinion on what you have to say.
To all the consumers, to find a good dealer, research the BBB go to Dealerrattings.com. Know what you are in for before you go in.
For the record, it's Dealerrater.com. Which only helps if someone's reviewed the facility, and that the dealerships near you don't have equally bad reviews.
Also keep in mind that different people will have different experiences with different sales people.
Anyway, someone said "I just want to get a good deal on a car." And that's easy. The problem is that it seems like the discussion here is all about getting the absolute best deal on a car, and that is where people get excitable, if only because people have different ideas on what "best" means.
But mostly I just wanted to correct the URL in the previous post - it looks like it could be a useful site.
I don't think that anyone here cares about nothing but price. Just because someones car buying technique isn't to your liking doesn't mean that they don't care about anything but price. Just because someone uses a technique that gets them a better price for minimal effort doesn't mean that they don't care about anything but price.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
"But if you show any hesitancy or resistance, they will not hesitate to get nasty."
The only time I have EVER got "nasty" with a customer is when one guy hit his wife when we were out on a test drive. Other than that time I am sweetness and light to everyone!
I have had more than one salesman get nasty at me when I wouldn't give them any contact information or deal with them. And that is after I told them from the start that I wasn't interested at this time and I was just looking and not to waste their time with me.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I know your comments have helped more than one person.
Agree with bob. I've been a member at Edmunds for over 2 years, and have never come across the type of information on negotiation theory and techniques that socal has provided and described.
This information carried over into a recent carpet purchase of mine. Ordinarily, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to negotiate on carpet. But, using a couple techniques provided by socal and some of my own(i.e primarily just by asking, time pressure, competitors price), I was able to get the price down $240. Probably would have gone for more, but the wife was putting pressure on me to get it done.
But the dealers that participate in this forum are examples of the salespeople you would want to help you and do things the right way and do not use the gabits and trickery and tatics you often speak of. [non-permissible content removed] salespeople do not participate in these types of forums, because they are too busy smoking ciggarttes, and standing outside waiting for an up. We are professionals.
I'm sorry, but that's not really the point of what I have been discussing here.
I have emphasized throughout this thread that in terms of getting the best deal, it does not matter whether the salesperson is sweet as pie or a "[non-permissible content removed]". From the customer's standpoint, the issue is exactly the same: the dealership's goal is to get more of our money than we'd otherwise need to pay, and we should aspire to get a better deal. If the salesperson wants to be nasty, then so be it, it's all just part of the game and we should expect it.
I don't fault you for wanting to increase the dealership's profits and your earnings. You work for the dealership, the dealership hired you to create profits for it, and if I was on your side of the table, I would do the same. However, this thread is about the consumer's perspective, which should be to pay less, and my guidance is offered to help the consumer's negotiation, not yours.
By the way, I never said (or at least never meant to say) that all salespeople get nasty 100% of the time, just that they won't hesitate to do it if they so choose, because nastiness is just another gambit that may be used like any other gambit. Nasty or nice, the goal of both actions is precisely the same: to increase the profit to the dealer. Since that profit comes out of the consumer's pocket, I'm advising the consumer to focus on the deal, and not to worry about the dealer's plays to emotion.
I appreciate hearing things like this, because you scored a win for yourself and because it shows how negotiation skills help in areas aside from car shopping.
By the way, I'm curious -- did you spend much more additional time getting the discount that you obtained? If you haggled well (and based upon one of your past car purchases, I assume that you did), my guess is that it didn't take you all that long.
A bunch have been removed. Please keep in mind that the topic of discussion here is not other members. Thanks!
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Comments
No I don't make an offer, I never have and I never will, I have the dealer make the offer. Its not hard to do.
Run around town to 4 other dealers.
Most I ever have gone to are two, and its always a good I deal to let the dealer know that you have alternatives.
You go back to first dealer. Your car is already gone.
For the most part dealers have more than one of each car. That is unless you want that Accord in the butt ugly color that is in an engine/transmission/option combo that no one ever wants.
Or, the dealer makes the first offer and says "just look at the MSRP sticker....that's what we're asking".
A few things here, first unless its a hot car (currently the Prius and the G6 Convertible fall into this) no dealer will try to sell you at MSRP. Secondly you have started negotiations and if you know what you're doing (and its not hard) you get them to counter their own offer. Thats when the price starts going down.
You're trying to make the deal more complicated than it needs to be
No more complicated or troublesome than going from dealer to dealer making a take it or leave it offer. FWIW I don't think I spent more than 25-30 minutes getting a good price. Far less time then making an offer at one dealership getting refused and driving to another, and generally at a lower price.
If anyone has done their homework, the deal should be quick, painless, and good for both sides.
I agree, using the Bobst method where you make a take it or leave it offer is quick, may or may not be painless (most likely will pay more for the car) and good for both sides. What Socal and I advocate is also quick painless and good for both sides if one has done their homework.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It just amazes me how one person can keep saying the same things over and over and over and over......
Very true even if you don't let it be known to the dealer it will be a constraint you have in your own mind. You must have the mindset that you will take as long as it takes, not that you will spend a long time just that you don't feel the need to wrap things up.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Exactly. And ironically, not caring how long it takes is the very best way to ensure that it won't take very long. Those who are concerned about hurrying up will probably spend more time cutting the deal than would those who are indifferent.
Let's say you are selling your own used car. You have it advertised in the paper for 7500.00. Someone comes and looks at it...." What will you take for it?"
"I'm asking 7500.00...I'll take that!"
It is up to the BUYER to make a lesser offer!
Your salesperson DID give the first offer. that was the "big bold MSRP". If you want to pay less, it is up to YOU to make the first offer!
The MSRP is just window dressing, I wouldn't even pay attenion to it. For anything but a very hot car, it's pretty much irrelevant and should have no bearing on what you should pay. (And very few cars are hot.) Your best effort should be to focus on invoice and whatever incentives are available, both those payable to the dealer and to the customer.
If you read back through the thread, you will learn why naming the first number is not to the advantage of the party doing it. The whole purpose of the window sticker is to get the customer to begin negotiating from a much higher point than is generally necessary.
Don't fall for that gimmick. There's no rule that says that you have to make the first (or even the second or subsequent) offer, or that you are obligated to counter every counter with a higher number. A good negotiation will create mechanisms that pull the price toward your direction (in this case, downward), and the window sticker is not one way to get there.
I mean, do you just say "It's too high for me. How much can you bring it down?" Or do you go for the "Well, I was thinking of offering you $100 for it. Let's negotiate." route?
It's easier to say "do this" than to give examples of *how* to do that, and those examples have been few in this thread.
And it's that lack of clear examples that have been getting people frustrated in this thread.
A lot of the posters here have covered items such as this many posts ago. Have you read back through the thread?
Many states now require the dealer to refund any overcharge on tag fees. New York requires a refund within sixty days, but I still had to ask my Ford dealer for it after ninety days when I returned for service.
Maximum paperwork fees and tag fee refund policies are usually highlighted in the sales contract as a matter of law.
Among other methods, hemming-and-hawing, failure-to-understand and asking-for-more can be effective techniques if used appropriately. There isn't one precise way to go about these, and you need to have flexibility in order to be able to deal with the style of the other side, but as would any good negotiator or salesperson, it helps if you prepare for various tactics/ gambits in advance that can help you deal with likely scenarios.
This link explains the latter "asking for more" concept: "To Get a Better Deal, Learn How to Use the Vise Gambit"
Or 2 people saying the same thing over and over and over.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I guess the car salesman doesn't like it when a member presents good ideas and information on negotiating and saving money?
I can understand why as the end effect would be taking money out of your pocket. But, this discussion is called "Purchsing Strategies"...and how to save money is what it is about.
I enjoy reading this "one persons" posts over and over...because it is worthwhile and benefical. Maybe not to you...but to most of us.
or just to those who agree with it (which, by the way, isn't "the rest of us.")
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm sure, to some, that's a good thing.
By the way, nothing here has taken money out of my pocket!
Peeter
Could be that increased interest bumped up the price.
I would place my bet on the misprint (or at least them telling you it was).
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
For goodness sakes, we are talking about buying a car, not negotiating a treaty with a foreign government.
I would bet that in most cases, the difference between a well informed consumer's idea of a good price and the dealers "see you later", "let them walk", "bottom line" isn't more than a couple of hundred dollars.
Control is something every seller needs. You can't let the buyer run the transaction if you want to stay in business. Is there something unusual about that? Of course not.
Do dealers make money? Of course they do. They have big expenses. They want to be around tomorrow.
All this talk about defanging, gimmicks, mechanisms, tactics, and gambits, makes my head spin.
It really should be quite simple.
1. Get the dealers best price.
2. Compare that to your best offer.
3. If you're not happy, keep looking.
Course, what do I know. Just been buying cars for about 45 years. Never felt like I got a bad deal. If I did, I wouldn't have bought the car. Did I squeeze every last penny? Probably not, but then, life is short. Got more important things to worry about. Peace....
There is nothing wrong with the desire to get a good price...the problems stem from the methods used to get that good price. I'm sure somebody will pop in and say something like..."well, dealers do it so I have to, etc..." my answer to that is simple. Bad behavior doesn't justify more bad behavior.
It really should be quite simple.
1. Get the dealers best price.
2. Compare that to your best offer.
3. If you're not happy, keep looking.
Course, what do I know. Just been buying cars for about 45 years. Never felt like I got a bad deal. If I did, I wouldn't have bought the car. Did I squeeze every last penny? Probably not, but then, life is short. Got more important things to worry about. Peace....
Well said.
What I don't like about certain posters on here is there, "my way is the best way attitude."
There are plenty of different ways to do almost anything and get about the same result and negotations are no different.
I could run my old shop three or four different ways and get about the same result. I could run my UPS opperation several different ways and get about the same result.
I could negotiate vehicles on either side of things many different ways and get the same result. I just choose to be open and honest in my communication now matter which side I am on. I know this will sound cliche but that is the Land Rover way and if you don't belive it just check out the albums at my carspace page.
If everyone shared your perspective, this thread would not exist. It is no secret that many consumers dread car shopping, because it is complex and confusing, and because they perceive dealer tactics to be intimidating.
If you don't agree with that, that's fine for you, but not everyone is in your boat. There are others who obviously feel differently (their posts make it clear that they want the help), and some of us are willing to offer the help. I can't see why salespeople should feel threatened by that, as many of them obviously are.
I will continue reading and let you know of any more good ones.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That's because most consumers are complete idiots. If you have any doubt whatsoever, just get a job in a retail establisment for 6 mos, any retail establisment. You start to wonder, "are people really this stupid or do they just put take their brains out of their heads when they leave the house?"
Only working retail can you hear this question, "How big is your 7" pizza?" Not just once, or twice...but 30 times in a single day!
Now you have me wondering, just how big is your 7" pizza?
My favorite was when I was managing a cell phone store when someone asked me if they could use their phone to talk to someone who only spoke spanish.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Whats really scary is that we are agreeing, so many times we went head to head on things.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
That's a good thing, we all don't need to agree on everything. I say: Let everyone toss his position out for examination, and let the readers decide for themselves what lessons they want to take from it.
Not really because anyone can say they are anyone from anyplace. While I say I am from Chicago I could be from Seattle or a teenager from Newark. Or even more sinister I could be a prototype of a HAL 9000 or a Colossus
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There are plenty of different ways to do almost anything and get about the same result and negotations are no different.
BINGO!!
A self-righteous attitude is what seems to get people riled up more than anything. It even overshadows any good intentions of the messages and makes this topic into much more of a bashing fest than it should be.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
As long as you have the energy, please keep it up. I know your comments have helped more than one person.
I drive people crazy, because I am always in the middle of the road and am always playing devils advocate.
Socal, I must say that regardless of the abundance of prolix posts you do, you are a articulate writer and have many things to say that help people. I do believe you do send some people off course with that abundancy, and stir them away from what is important in this forum, that is getting a great deal on a car that the consumer is happy with.
Perception is everything, and perception is different for everyone. And not to beat a dead horse, but rock bottom price is not a good deal all the time, for everyperson. What you preach is not getting a good deal, but getting a good price. And with out making this too long, peoples needs are different. It is sooooo easy to get a good deal on a car if you approach in a certain way, and although your tatics are catlike and stealt and effective, its not for every consumer and the people in this forum should not be chastised for paying a little more than you would.
As for your opinion of salespeople, Your statement above is way off. You many times denounce our advice in these forums saying its dealer slanted. Well we are dealer of course it will be. But the dealers that participate in this forum are examples of the salespeople you would want to help you and do things the right way and do not use the gabits and trickery and tatics you often speak of. [non-permissible content removed] salespeople do not participate in these types of forums, because they are too busy smoking ciggarttes, and standing outside waiting for an up. We are professionals. As for us "pretending to be your buddy" yes I am sure that is the case because there are people out there are not polished communicators and maybe genuinely trying to be friendly (or not) and just do not have social skills. I am very friendly to everyone because that is my nature. I usually try to find a common ground with all client to relax them because I know the last dealer they were at looked like people who would put their kid on a milk carton and I know that is a big decision. It is the second biggest purchase to a house. I want them to feel comfortable. Plus, I have to make a first impression to a STRANGER, and I want them to like me and want them to be happy with their purchase decsion.
I ask you, I implore you to walk a block in our shoes, even for just one day, and you would have a complete different opinion on what you have to say.
To all the consumers, to find a good dealer, research the BBB go to Dealerrattings.com. Know what you are in for before you go in.
Also keep in mind that different people will have different experiences with different sales people.
Anyway, someone said "I just want to get a good deal on a car." And that's easy. The problem is that it seems like the discussion here is all about getting the absolute best deal on a car, and that is where people get excitable, if only because people have different ideas on what "best" means.
But mostly I just wanted to correct the URL in the previous post - it looks like it could be a useful site.
There are people who don't care about ANYTHING than PRICE and those are the people we have trouble understanding.
For me, that would be a hard way to go through life but that's me.
However, don't you think a wise car buyer should prepare for the worst when they step into a dealership?
For example, shouldn't they carry an extra key just in case the sales person throws their key up on the roof?
In case they run into a sales person different than you are, Socal's advice could come in very handy.
Those are the kind of dealers we poor ignorant buyers have to prepare for.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
The only time I have EVER got "nasty" with a customer is when one guy hit his wife when we were out on a test drive. Other than that time I am sweetness and light to everyone!
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Agree with bob. I've been a member at Edmunds for over 2 years, and have never come across the type of information on negotiation theory and techniques that socal has provided and described.
This information carried over into a recent carpet purchase of mine. Ordinarily, I probably wouldn't have even bothered to negotiate on carpet. But, using a couple techniques provided by socal and some of my own(i.e primarily just by asking, time pressure, competitors price), I was able to get the price down $240. Probably would have gone for more, but the wife was putting pressure on me to get it done.
1.) I really haven't seen anything on here that would make me say "that person only cares about price".
2.) Since you are selling a product that is functionally homogeneous why shouldn't we try to get the best price regardless of the dealer?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
And, I won't give a lousy store/salesperson the satisfaction of making a sale even if it means spending a bit more in a professional place.
I'm sorry, but that's not really the point of what I have been discussing here.
I have emphasized throughout this thread that in terms of getting the best deal, it does not matter whether the salesperson is sweet as pie or a "[non-permissible content removed]". From the customer's standpoint, the issue is exactly the same: the dealership's goal is to get more of our money than we'd otherwise need to pay, and we should aspire to get a better deal. If the salesperson wants to be nasty, then so be it, it's all just part of the game and we should expect it.
I don't fault you for wanting to increase the dealership's profits and your earnings. You work for the dealership, the dealership hired you to create profits for it, and if I was on your side of the table, I would do the same. However, this thread is about the consumer's perspective, which should be to pay less, and my guidance is offered to help the consumer's negotiation, not yours.
By the way, I never said (or at least never meant to say) that all salespeople get nasty 100% of the time, just that they won't hesitate to do it if they so choose, because nastiness is just another gambit that may be used like any other gambit. Nasty or nice, the goal of both actions is precisely the same: to increase the profit to the dealer. Since that profit comes out of the consumer's pocket, I'm advising the consumer to focus on the deal, and not to worry about the dealer's plays to emotion.
I appreciate hearing things like this, because you scored a win for yourself and because it shows how negotiation skills help in areas aside from car shopping.
By the way, I'm curious -- did you spend much more additional time getting the discount that you obtained? If you haggled well (and based upon one of your past car purchases, I assume that you did), my guess is that it didn't take you all that long.
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