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Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories
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The prime arguments are (a) the likelihood that the repair won't be sufficient and (b) a rebuild harms resale value significantly. The former creates increased risk to the buyer, the latter can be more readily quantified into an economic loss.
That's why I check on the lemon laws. The amount of time needed to perform a proper rebuilt might be sufficient time off of the road to qualify for a buyback, or the retail cost of the work may be high enough to hurdle a threshhold. Again, that's likely not the case, but it can't hurt to research it. (Many states have departments and websites that will help to explain these laws.)
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
There is a third option on most leases and that's trading it in. Whatever the payoff is on that lease, just like a loan, gets rolled into the new car which is why it's not usually beneficial to do so. It doesn't have to be any type of mixed dealership, but if there's no equity in the vehicle, then it's best to wait until the end of the lease, hand it back to Toyota and go get the Civic. We traded a 4Runner in on an Odyssey since we were in an equitable position and had no problems.
Its just like when I go to Nordstrom, I have one lady that I deal with only in cosmetics and she calls me when the freebee deals are going on, hooks me up with free samples and sometimes I call ahead of time and she has my order ready for me. Its great to have an established relationship.
There is a VW store in SO-Cal that I send all my friends and family back home to I have not worked there in 4 years and management has changed but, with one phone call and my cousin drove off in a Passat for 100 over invoice and they did not care that she had her own financing, because I have a RELATIONSHIP with them. My mom got her Passat at invoice (paid cash) and anyone else I have sent gets the same deals.
If you are brand loyal or dealer loyal, you mostly can get a no hassle deal when you buy again or send refferals. If you know someone who has bought a car like the one you desire and had a good experience, ask who sold it to them and go there. If they had a bad experience, then you know where not to go.
BTW, Dealers do not have to participate in supplier or employee programs. Also those programs are are not always valid on all cars. There are specific dealers that handle those transactions
Payoff Amount:
$6,524.11 - (3 more payments)
Its a great place to get info.
No comparison. One doesn't generally negotiate at the Nordstrom cosmetic counter, so that relationship comes to the customer free of charge. If I could get a relationship for free, and I wanted that relationship, there's no reason not to take it.
The car dealer, on the other hand, is going to try to make me pay a price premium for his relationship. That's a relationship that I can do without.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I negotiate with that lady all the time(shes good) Its not in dollar amounts, but quantity? i.e "well the foundation is 45.00 for the small bottle but 55.00 for the larger for twice the side..."
Also, she works on commission, she needs my business like a carsalesperson does. She works on referrals too.
I would have walked out.
All of my offers are turned down initially. However, when we start to leave it is surprising how quickly the dealer changes their mind and accepts our offer.
The only way we know for CERTAIN that our offer has been refused is when we leave the dealer and drive away.
What is it with you people about having relationships? That's what your spouse or significant other is for. The vast majority of consumers aren't buying cars every year or two...much less multiple times a year. So, having a relationship with a salesperson who is unlikely to be working at the same dealership at your next purchase is rare.
My experience in having connections to general managers and sales managers at two seperate dealerships proved that "relationships" often don't pan out the way you guys would lead us to believe. Two years ago I was offered 2% over cost on the 2004 Toyota Sienna. Which at the time was a good price...under TMV by about $500. But, they weren't going to wave the $489 in dealer fees...which made a good deal just a so so deal. Similar type deal with my brothers brother in-law who is sales manager at a Pontiac dealership. A pretty good no hassle deal...but someone going in and negotiating on their own could have done better.
You guys are fooling these people if you're trying to get them to believe establishing a "relationship" will amount to much. Maybe, it will work for you because you buy multiple times a year or every year. But, when you establish a "relationship" with salespeople you are more obligated to buy from them and to not "offend" them by going for that extra $200-$500.
Relationships are sometimes very important. For example, if you operate a business that needs vendors who can provide timely delivery, excellent quality control, flexible credit terms, etc. which will allow you to run an efficient operation, then a strong relationship can be highly important. In that example, price is not the only priority, and the relationship matters because of the other benefits that you derive from it.
But if you buy a car every so often, as do most of us, this doesn't count for much. In my experience, those I know who tried to use their "relationships" to buy cars either paid more than they needed to, or else got quotes that were above what they could have otherwise paid. These "relationships" not only didn't help the customer, they actually cost the customer hundreds of dollars.
It seems that some buyers are so intimidated by the buying process that they resort to searching for "relationships" that may put them at ease, but pull money of their wallets. But like any get-rich-quick scheme, easy diet plan or other short cuts, these efforts to dodge the system don't work for the person trying to use them. Like it or not, the most effective solution is the old and tried solution -- in this case, that's negotiation using tried-and-true methods and research about inventories, invoice prices, incentives, etc..
It's obvious who benefits from these "relationships" -- the salespeople. Anything that helps to get them an easy close with a relatively good profit margin is desirable, certainly more useful to their incomes than is a "grinder" who actually cares about price and will happily leave if the deal doesn't make sense. The only problem is that something this lopsided and one-sided can't be properly be termed a relationship, as this relationship is lacking what relationships require most: mutual benefit.
However, I think the absolute, positively most important and numero uno way to save money is to buy a nice car that you can truly enjoy driving for 10 years.
Maybe so, but I wanted to get the Honda for $13600 plus our Taurus. I thought they might accept the offer if I started to leave. Well, I was wrong. The salesman followed me out to my car, but still didn't accept the offer.
Of course, several other times our offer has been accepted when we started to leave. On our last purchase, we had walked out and were getting in our car when the salesman came outside and said they accepted our offer.
That's why car buying is kinda fun. We never know what is going to happen.
I couldn't agree more. Maybe that's why I find it difficult to comprehend that people are actually advocating folks to start and maintain a "relationship" with their car dealer.
What are the chances the dealer you bought your most recent car from will still be employed at the same place ten years from your purchase date?
I'll be generous and say 1 in 500.
I wish that you had told me this before I had developed a taste for German cars. Ach du lieber...
If you are fighting over price, it is with the manager, not the salesperson. Also don't think a relationship with a salerman will get you that far. First most salesman don't have the authority to do anything. Secondly, when you are negotiating the lowest prices, you are getting it at the cheapest the dealer will sell. The dealer is not going to do a transaction they would not otherwise do, just because you have a relationship with them. At my dealership, they would give me the car for $200 over invoice. But if I want it for less than that, I have to haggle just like anybody else.
Agree. I've asked several times, but they(salespeople) refuse to talk about their negotiation techniques and sale outcomes... unless the buyer gets invoice or better. Maybe they have some sort of "Sophranos" type of code..."Ya's squeal...ya'll be sleeping with da fishes" :surprise:
Regarding the "private" e-mail for the moderators here, mine shows that it's public. Could you try looking again to see if it's showing up?
You can always contact moderators by using our host names @edmunds.com, but sorry 'bout the error.
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Find me at kirstie_h@edmunds.com - or send a private message by clicking on my name.
2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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Are most dealerships set up like this? Very little if any incentive for a salesperson to make much money on something that would seem out of reach 90% of the time. Seems giving a saleperson a % of anything over invoice would be more profitable to both parties.
Maybe, as a "former" salemen you would care to enlighten us on what methods and techniques you used or were taught to maximise dealer profit and get that purchase price of $1400 over invoice... to get more than just a "mini".
I refered to "Bobst's" method of buying as having limited chance for success when buying rare vehicle or in small markets. When you put you price and walk when not accepted you pretty much give up on the vehicle, as there is nothing else available to your liking, so walking away is not really an option if you really want THAT car.
So what I maent was exactly that it may actually be necessary to employ some of "your" tactics - you actually sit down, lay your case and try to "seduce" the dealer into thinking if you walk away, they may not see another buyer for that car in the next five months. On the other hand, inquiring about a rare car is somewhat giving it away, so it does ultimately become a game of chicken. One needs to be aware they (dealers) have generally better training then buyers do, so preparation is essential in that case.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
I can't think of one purchase I'd make (short of convenience store purchases) with someone I don't have trust in.
You're right. No manufacturer has to honor employee/supplier pricing. When the first Mustangs came out, no dealer was honoring those purchase plans. And, at the time, it was the hottest car on the planet. NO dealer would allow you to order a Mustang at X/A/Z plan. Those that did weren't sticking to their promise once the car was delivered. Again, that's the bennefit of working with a trustworthy dealer that I've got a relationship with.
Another example, although about 10 years ago, I was in the market for a BMW 5 Series. A guy I play golf with buys (leases) a new 7 Series every 3 years, like clockwork. I called him to ask him who I should deal with at his BMW dealership. He gave me the SM's name and actually called him and told him I was interested. Now, BMW dealers aren't exactly known for giving out $100 over invoice deals, but I made an appointment with BMW after finding out they had exactly what I wanted (blue/tan, loaded). I went in thinking $800-$1,000 over invoice would be my deal after doing my research. Lo and behold, when I walked in to take a look at the car and drive it, the sales person, without prompting said they'd sell me the car for what amounted to $250 over invoice. No negotiations. The deal was better than any I would have recieved just walking off the street. Plus, I got all the "perks".....free car washes, free maintenance, etc.
Long and short of it, I think some would rather play the "cat and mouse" game at the dealership. To me, it's a waste of time and money.
Unfortunately, I'm a car "junky" and don't do that very often.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You're right they don't have to honor the plan, but if they honor it on one car they have to on all. So if a dealer gives X plan pricing on an Escort they have to on a Mustang.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Sounds like a unique and prosperous relationship for you. But, for the other 99.9% of us out there looking to buy, a "relationship" with a dealership and building "trust" isn't going to help us any.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Just wondering... sorry if it's a lame I-think-about-this-way-too-much question.
Thanks!
On top of it you have manufacturer's goals, like again, reaching sales figures, etc., which brings scheduled upcoming model change in mind (thus clearing lots from old models). Unfortunately manufacturer's introduce models all year around rather than one set month, as they used to. Still summer is an exchange time for most on the market, so it may be a good time for many popular models.
If your heart is set on something low-volume (like mine) and it is pretty much done deal, then audia8q is right - whenever YOU are ready, then it's the best time, as prices of those do not fluctuate as much. Perhaps closer to model change will get you somewhat better deal, but you may have to settle for something you don't really want (wrong color, engine, transmission, options), as supply gets leaner.
If you don't really care what, or you are a popular model guy, follow the popular sentiment and you'll likely be fine.
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Same situation but you walk in just as that last car they need for quota is rolling off the lot you are out of luck.
Same situation but its a week to go until the end of the month don't count on any deals.
In short unless your real lucky don't count on a good deal at the end of the month.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2018 430i Gran Coupe
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
2018 430i Gran Coupe
Speaking of doing research I am looking into getting a BMW R 1150, does anyone know a good place to research that?
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Are most dealerships set up like this? Very little if any incentive for a salesperson to make much money on something that would seem out of reach 90% of the time. Seems giving a saleperson a % of anything over invoice would be more profitable to both parties.
Maybe, as a "former" salemen you would care to enlighten us on what methods and techniques you used or were taught to maximise dealer profit and get that purchase price of $1400 over invoice... to get more than just a "mini".
I agree that there is very little incentive and many of us have complained. Essentially the system is set up to give us 25% over cost, but its fixed cost and not variable cost. You have to understand that there is a fixed cost per car of a few hundred dollars that goes to pay for rent, electricity, support staff etc. If a dealer sold every car at $100 over invoice they would definitely lose money. But the variable cost on the car is the cost of the car, plus my commision, plus the cost of detailing each car. If we can get that much on a unit it makes sense to sell it. Believe it or not, one of the reasons I had to get to $1400 over was because I had to pay $500 for paint seals. This is one of the primary reasons I quit.
Truth is that most of the time I accept that the deal is a mini. If you are going to fight at all the deal is probably a mini. The only time a customer fought at all and it wasn't a mini was generally because the customer was working on a monthly payment. In that case I might start at like 5K over invoice and work back down. I also made over a mini on Civics as the demand was real high two months ago and it was very tough to buy one in Houston for less than MSRP. But basically if you come in on any other car, ask for a cash price, and have any desire to fight, than I know the deal is a mini.
Truthfully I had no interest in maximizing dealer profit. I just was interested in getting the deal done. Typically though customers come in and want prices that we can not do. Most of the time I'd simply show them the actual invoice, and give them edmunds and KBB printouts with identical invoice prices. I'd ask for Edmund's TMV and we'd compromise somewhere between that and invoice. I would tell them that we obviously can't go below invoice, because once they believe invoice isn't the true cost you have a problem. Funny thing is that Edmund's is supposedly all about helping the consumer, but I'd just use it to take advantage of them. It probably saves some from being majorly ripped off, but it also give most the idea that $500 over invoice is more than fair. It probably costs these people some money. I think if Edmunds really wanted to help, they'd publish the bottom price that they think you can actually buy for. I don't think that's as tough as it sounds. I think in many instances TMV is off buy 2K or more.
There were some occasions where i would just give the car away to the customer as they were leaving. A typical scenario is that a customer comes in, test drives, is not ready to buy, but want's to know our best price. Manager typically says something to the effect of "come back and see us when you are ready to buy". This would annoy me to no end, as I figure customer will just go to another dealer if they do decide to buy a Honda. Again a problem with incentive. I could care less if we sell that car at invoice because a mini is a mini, but manager does not want to give away the car if he does not have to. I'd typically walk customer out and tell them this is the invoice price, and if you stick to your guns we will sell at $100 over invoice, but you did not hear that from me. In my opinion I was more likely to see them again if I gave them a very good offer that they could shop, rather than no offer at all. I was confident enough in my service that I would not lose them just because they shopped my price and somebody beat it by $100.
How to get the best deal. I think all you need to do is know what price dealers are willing to sell at, be willing to buy, and show a willingness to go elsewhere. It you come in asking for $200 under invoice you may not get it right away. But if we are willing to sell at that number than so is one of the other 15 Honda dealers. If you stick to your guns, I will give you your price rather than letting you leave. Problem for most people is that they do not know the bottom number we are willing to sell the car for. You might get it out of me, but you probably have to make a reasonable offer and be willing to leave. If all you are offering is 2K under invoice, than I know nobody else is going to sell to you either. But if you are offering 500 under and we are willing to sell the car at 300 under, we'd offer that price before we let you leave.
Good point on the Edmunds pricing.
One thing, though, is that a salesman who would like to turn this into a long-haul job would want to avoid bringing low purchase prices to the table for every single customer, otherwise the sales manager will not be too pleased with the performance. That should be an incentive to bid up the offer, even if the deal still turns out to be a mini at either price.
You are right to some degree. Some mangers are just like me and would rather not expend too much effort haggling as it might just annoy the customer, plus the manager is lazy and wants to get the deal rapped up. Others however do want to get every penny. When we write up a deal, we can go to any manager at the desk. If I think that I might make some money, I will go to the manager who will push for every penny. If you are a fighter, I go to the manager who just gives in easily.
Once I got stuck with a manger who likes to fight. I was at a Nissan dealer and selling a demo Maxima with 5K miles. I bumped the customer to 800 over invoice. Since this was a demo and the car was like a year old, I knew this was a jackpot for the dealership, but a mini for me. I told my manger that we have a deal as I've got her up to 800 over invoice. He flipped out and almost pulled the deal. He said I shouldn't be satisfied with just having a deal. I should be out there pushing for more money. He almost turned away a very lucrative deal just to teach me a lesson.
Another point: If you make an offer and we let you walk than its not a price we are willing to take. I f we are willing to take the price we might argue anyways, but if you get up and leave and we don't chase you down and accept than we are definitely not willing to sell at that price. Some people think that we may hold out, hoping that you come back and pay more. When there are 10 dealers, we do not take that risk. We will never let you leave if you are willing to buy today at a price that is acceptable to us.
Sounds alot like the bobst method of buying.
Actually, not quite. Riship also noted that the buyer has to be willing to fight a bit to get that low-price deal, it comes only after a bit of a tussle. Bob tends to leave fairly quickly before the fight has begun, which carves him out of deals that he might have otherwise gotten.
Don't want to get into an argument here. Some techniques work for some and not for others.
I just wanted to add a few experiences that have worked well for me, that differ from most. Just another way of buying a car (or any big ticket item), quickly, easily, with the confidence of getting a good deal.
Believe me, when I was a young pup, I learned the hard way how much research is important to getting a good deal. I made the mistake of thinking the only way to get a good deal was to "grind away" for over an hour, for as little as $25, to make a deal (a practice handed down to me by my father). Over time, I learned how well trustworthiness and relationships add value to those experiences.
My dearly departed father actually started telling me what he wanted when he needed a car and letting me make the transaction for him after accomplanying me a couple of times on car buying events.
2018 430i Gran Coupe