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Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories
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Now we are getting into something else which is an attack on me and my cousin and that should not and will not be tolerated. We all are grown men here so lets talk like one. As a inexperienced car buyer I did not have the luxury of have all of the first hand knowledge that maybe you do. If you were talking about the real estate business or coaching football then it would be a totally different story. This I am very knowledgeable in, so there would be no need for advice from someone. My instincts and maybe they are wrong, is to get advice about something that you are not all that familiar with. I might be wrong but that is what I have always done. Don't go into something blind, right?
Now to get into specifics. You stated "you have a relative who is a car dealer, yet you still don't have a "cement" number to shoot for, and you're on your third dealership and still looking, going to get a written quote and then play 'beat this price'?" Yeah my cement number is the best one that I can get. Can you understand that? If someone can beat it then well good, if not awll well. Not much time lost, maybe 5 minutes to get a yes or no.
Next you stated "they could easily pick up the phone and get you a deal with a Chrysler dealer." I don't know if being in different states thousands of miles apart hinders this at all, but who is to say the dealer he speaks to will give him (well basically me) the best deal. Just because the are in the same occupation?? I buy houses and resell them but would I compromise price to someone just because they are in the same occupation, nope not at all.
Lastly you stated "You've run around in circles, wasted your time and several salespeople's and salesmanager's time." Time is trivial to me when making an investment worth thousands of such as the case when I make my real estate investments. In addition what about the dealers who waste my time by trying to charge sticker price and beyond. Fixed price, yeah right! Waste of time. Went to another dealership and got $1500 off sticker. Either way if you are afraid of losing valuable time well then just try not to talk to anyone or sell any cars, because ultimately any situation could be a waste of time. You are in the business of selling cars, you are going to win some and lose some. Wasting some time is part of the business and if you have a problem with that then GET OUT!! When I look to invest into different properites I have the chance of getting it or not. Does that mean Iam not going to invest the time to research and try to get it becuase I might waste some time, no. If I didn't ultimatley I would be settling instead of trying to make as much money as I can.
I would like to thank you for your advice though as all is appreciated. Like I stated to someone else, he could have gave me wrong advice or he could have gave me great advice. I could have gone about things wrong. Hey who knows and ultimately why would you care. If I get the lowest price possible than I will be happy and if you get people who don't waste your time then you will be happy. Yeah whatever I could care less what you think or do, I don't know you. You have to do whats's best for you and I have to do the same. Nice talking to you though as I have "wasted" enough valuable time. Hey just one more thing wouldn't you be ultimately wasting time by writing a post critizing me and my cousin. That time could be better served right? Jsut wondering becuase I know you are so big on wasting time, lol.
The "best price" situation is a great idea, but should NEVER be a mystery to you as a buyer, since if it is a mystery, you'll never know if you got the best deal or not.
I guess the point of my post, which seems to have been completely altered and misconstrued, is that instead of shopping all over, why not do the research prior to shopping instead of using your time to "let the shopping be the research", which doesn't give you satisfaction in any way if your ultimate goal is paying the cheapest price.
I'm not in the business of selling cars, and no, I won't "get out" of my current job.
And, I take plenty of time when making my buying decisions - my whole goal here, though, is when people ask how to make the car buying process easier, the first thing I tell them is to get a "number" in advance (like Bobst) through research, and don't run all over town.
That seems to be people's biggest complaint, that they have to trapse all over town going to 10 dealers to get the "best deal", when in fact, without research, they wouldn't know the "best deal", if it landed on their foot.
People tend to make this WAY too hard..
Well if I mistook your intentions of your post I do apologize for it. I came off to me in a negative critizing tone.
Again I am not a expert on anything but I think that it differs from person to person. Those who want to pay a certain amount can go to the dealer and see if they are willing to pay it. If not leave and go somewhere else. I personally choose to take them a price I want to pay for the car and see if the accept. If they do I can then take it to another dealership to see if they will go lower with everything equal (rate, term, etc.). I really don't care about making this process easy just to satisfy my own personal goals. I don't think investments are an easy process and time and research should be done extensively. And with that I did do research on the car, price, etc. which is why I am on here. In addition, I personally don't have a problem driving around town looking for the best deal, I do it all the time anyway. I feel that doing this will satisfy my intentions and my goals. Other people may differ in this belief but again they have to do what is best for them. That's what is so good, there are many ways to skin a cat. Again I do apologize for taking your post wrong and there no hard feelings.
You're looking at a vehicle, go to a dealer, get a purchase price of $15,000, and while that seems pretty good, you keep looking, only to talk with another dealer, and get a price on the same vehicle, same equipment, for $14,600.
Even with this information, how do you know if $14,600 is a "good" price? Do you know, for sure, what rebates are currently on the vehicle and what you're eligible for? What invoice is?
By the way, there is no magic special invoice price at the dealer level - dealers pay the same for like vehicles, and it's what is posted in CR, here on Edmunds, or is available (usually) through your credit union or bank.
My point, again, is unless you know what a "good" price is, your "target" price, beforehand, getting prices from dealers is an unnecessary step. Using dealers to do research on what you should pay leaves money on the table.
Turn it around, putting yourself in charge - "Mr Dealer, I see you have a silver PT Cruiser with the Touring Package and side airbags in stock - I'm offering $14,300 plus tax and licensing, let me know if that works for you".
And make sure to clear the air on doc fees and admin fees so there are no surprises at sign up time.
I've had shoppers try every trick in the book to get me to do that too.
You would "probably" take it to another dealer?
Anyway, it sounds like things worked out for you and that's the important thing.
It sounds like you will eventually get a low price, and that's good. I hope you are enjoying the experience.
You are definitely learning a lot, and I suggest you write down what you have learned so you won't forget it. You may be buying another new car sooner than you think.
Another poster in this DG, Zeuslewis, bought a PT cruiser awhile ago, and the last I heard he was trying to use the lemon law to get his money back.
I do see your point and you are correct. I can never know if the price I am getting is a good price as far as knowing what they bought it for or what type of manufacturer incentives, etc. they have. The can and probably still make a decent deal off of me because of end of the month manufacturer to dealer incentives and dealer holdback. I do know all the rebates that I am eligible for giving that all the information from edmunds, cars.com, and chrysler website is correct. There could be a rebate that might not be listed on here that the dealer could be hiding from me but I have done the best to find this out. And if I miss this that I would not be getting the "best" deal, which I think is your point right?
My whole thing is this though. With all things considered I have done my research and found out what rebates and incentives I am eligible for. Hopefully that is it but I will check again because now I am paranoid that there might be some more. With all things considered I wanted to pay $15,300 before tags, etc. for the car. This was my optimal price and I was willing to go up some. When I went to the first dealership they said I was nuts and said the lowest they could go was $16,200 before tags and taxes. I then went to another dealer who I was impressed with and said they would give it to me for $15,200. This is exactly what I am looking for. But know I contacted the third dealer who said he can beat anyone and told him sorry I cannot deal with you because I found another dealer. Immediately he asked what they were offering. I told him $15,200 before tags and taxes and this is not financing with Chrysler (have 3.9 with credit union). Immediately he said if you want that I will get it and beat their price. He talked to his sales manager and bam $14,900. Now I wanted to pay $15,300 and was willing to go up because I thought this could never be reached and now look it is down to $14,900. From the first dealer to the third I saved $1400. Am I happy with this, certainly but I will still go back to the second dealer and let them know the offer, hell yeah. If they can beat it good, if not awll well. I will keep doing this until one says I can't go lower than this and go with the other dealer, like the first dealer did.
Is this the nicest thing to do probably not, but I look at it like this. If you have two people who want to buy the same car which will you sell it to? The one who is willing to pay the most right? Well I have two salesmen who want my business. The one who sells at the cheapest price will win. It's not personal or anything else other than business.
But I do understand your point and it is one well taken. I do not know precisely if I am getting a good deal but all I can do is try my best through research and negotiating.
Here4 sounds like a tough determined guy, so maybe he will have better luck with DCC when his time comes. At least he can't say you didn't forewarn him.
Thanks I always like to tell good stories and entertain people, LOL.
"Another poster in this DG, Zeuslewis, bought a PT cruiser awhile ago, and the last I heard he was trying to use the lemon law to get his money back."
That could not have been a new car right? What happened?
But anyways other than that I am learning a lot and I do appreciate you all's advice and help (no matter how much I agree or don't with it). It really makes me feel good that others are willing to go out of their way to help people. I am the same way and hopefully one day I can repay the favor in some form or fashion.
I'm now having an even worse deal with my wife's Dakota....the truck (and the PT) knows what I do for a living and its (they're) mocking me...
The moon was a ghostly galleon, tossed upon cloudy seas.
The road was a ribbon of moonlight, over the purple moor.
And the Taurus tranny kept slipping, slipping, as we tried to make it to our front door.
Well, I might have borrowed three of those lines from another source, but I had to set the mood. A little family of four just trying to get home. I know you literate people will understand.
I have to ask you....is this REALLY fun for you, pitting one dealer against the other, going back and forth in your quest to pay the bottom dollar?
Reading your last post was almost enough to push me over the edge and look for another career.
I mean, life is short....
And, are PT Cruisers THAT cheap?? I thought they sold for a lot more than that. I know they have really softened up I didn't realize they sold for that little.
I had to BEG to get $3k back of book for the thing....the dealer wanted to offer me $8k, showed me Manheim reports ($8k!), NADA wholesale was $13k, Kelley was $11k. I got $10k....
I think the bloom is off the rose, so to say?
Are the tourings the base model? It seems every one I see says "Touring" on the back.
We even have one that runs around town with fake wood on the side! Imagine trying to sell THAT later down the road?
When a newbie walks in and says he wants to be a salesman, hand him the postings and tell him, "Here is your first customer".
That'll separate the wheat from the chaff.
Since, you are a salesmen, I commend you for an active member, since most posters would probably take out their frustrations. Edmunds posting boards could actually be a useful tool for salesmen in general.
I'm thinking out loud and selling cars must take it's toll since some customers actually know what your paying price is "to a degree" and the exact same product can be bought maybe a town over, if the dealership doesn't have exactly the spec, they swap with another competitor. definitely a dog eat dog business. Savvy customers or those with even a little knowledge and some time don't think of salesmen in general as "out for the customer's best interests" it's show, sell to meet your quota and move on to the next customer.
How many times has a customer actually received a courtesy phone call after a sale, from anyone at the dealership. After the wife leased her A4, the internet manager was so good, price service everything. I had the company I work for make a goodie basket, all high end women's care products. When we walked into the dealership her face dropped. She emailed within minutes after we left (emails have time stamps ya know) and stated never in over ten years has anyone every brought her a gift of any kind. She's sold BMWs, Audis and another luxury name plate. Ok, OK, enough ranting for now.
Yeah like Drift said the PT Cruisers are not nearly as popular as they used to be. So with the rebates and before financing they can really go for the low $15,000s easy. Also, they have another $1000 cash back for financing with them (which I was thinking of doing and then refinancing with my credit union) so you can get it for the low $14,000s easy.
As far as if I am having fun running back and forth. NO not really, but to me it is trivial. I want the bottom dollar and if that means I have to run around or call back and forth that is what I will do.
"Reading your last post was almost enough to push me over the edge and look for another career." LOL, I am not trying to have anyone look for another career or anything these are just my opinions on this situation. Again this is my scheme that I have put to use and thus far it is working for me. Might not for all but for me it is.
"When a newbie walks in and says he wants to be a salesman, hand him the postings and tell him, 'Here is your first customer'. That'll separate the wheat from the chaff."
I am not sure what you mean can you explain. Are you saying I would be their test? LOL hope I am a good one.
Let me tell you what happened yesterday. I went to talk to the dealer who said $14,900. I went to see the write up quote and guess what I found an extra destination charge. LOL, should have known he was going to try to get over some how. I asked him if this is a second dest. charge and he said no. I then said what about the dest. charge that was included in the price on the window ticket. He then said this is company policy that they had to pay an extra freight charge. Come on be for real. Then he said come on man I am not making but $50 on the sale on the car. Again I looked at him like I was stupid and said $50. Well that seems like a pretty low dealer holdback seeing that it is 3% for Chrysler. I was not a math major in school but I do realize that $50 is not 3% of MSRP or invoice or whatever. He then told me sales people do not get dealer holdback only sales manager. OK!! Whatever. We have a good relationship but I did not like the misleading that he was doing.
Now is this fair to me, to mislead me and try to get over. NO its not, but if I was stupid enough to accept it than thats on me. I personally told him I that if they knocked it down to $14,800 and throw out the bs extra dest. charge than I would sign. He played the whole good cop, bad cop for 10-15 minutes and then I left saying to call me after you and your manager satify this on your own time and I might come back tomorrow but no guarantees. He immediately offered to split the second dest. charge and again I said no and left. Know I will go to the last dealer and tell him $14,800 plus tags, taxes, and processing fee that's it. If he accepts than thats it. No more playing tag, it will be done. But this is the process I went through to get a better deal. Remember I wanted to pay $15,300 and was willing to go up to probably $15,750. Now it's down to $14,800 before $1000 financing rebate if I think it is worth wild to refinance. But to me the whole process has gone fairly well and this is probably the approach I will take again when I buy my next car (and with what you said I might hae to do it by 6000 miles, lol). But anyways, it seems to have worked for me.
I wouldn't work for a store that did this but, by the same token, here4thekids, your tactics are exactly what encourages this to happen.
Think about it.
Also, you have a misconception about holdback. There is an entire thread dedicated to holdback and you may want to read it.
-thene
Maybe we should start a thread on OVERHEAD...the extreme costs of doing business these days?
For every $1.00 that I make, there is about $1.45 in overhead expenses (audited by the gov't). That includes the following: Health Insurance, Retirment Plan, Marketing Expenses, Magaement Expenses, Rent, Supplies (i.e., computers), Coverage for when I do not have a project, etc. Then, there is a seperate line for profit, which is usually about $0.15.
Or, for every $2.60 we bill the customer, $1.00 is my salary, $1.45 is the cost of doing business, and $.15 in company profit.
hopefully that explanation helps a little...
-thene
Well, you ain't got the car yet, from what I can tell. Don't be so quick to say everything has worked out so well.
Since you are a coach, you should know it's not over till it's over.
However, I think you are doing great so far.
When tactics like the above are used, you get so irritated, you simply walk to the next dealership, tell them how pissed you are about dealership ABC, state your price (which at this point you can knock a few dollars more off, wink, wink!!!), ask if they will match ABC's price, yes or no, no hidden fees etc. and the other dealer just snatched up your customer, with little or no time spent.
While everyone employes differing buying strategies, I personally make my local dealership my last stop, a salesmen should also look at time spent with each customer, obviously, if you put in more time then another dealer, you have a duty to yourself and the dealership's business needs, to close the sale.
You are right and I do apologize for that statement about the salesperson making a holdback. I just talked to my cousin and he explained to me that I was wrong. I received some wrong information about what to say if the dealer says his is not making anything off of the deal. I do admit I made a mistake in saying this and apologize to anyone that received the wrong information.
As far as the tactics are concerned I don't care that they tried to charge the dest. fee twice. This is part of the business where they are trying to make the max. profit. If I did not do my research than I might have paid it. But I did and I know better. I won't accept paying it and thus we will come to a deal when he realizes it, hopefully :-)
You are right I have not purchased it yet. I was just trying to state that I feel that my process is doing me justice and will in the long run. When I finally sit down and do the paperwork thing he could try to charge something different or add unnecessary charges. Hopefully I will be smart enough to pick up on it if he does and stick to the advertised OTD price.
On a side note someone told me that I should look into paying the extra for the second horn and cabin air filter. Should I and why? Also the dealer is offering a protection plan for $800. From my understanding it allows you to get oil changes for free (other than cost of filter), regular maintaince, tune ups, etc. Sorry I can't remember everything. Should I look into this? Thanks for any help on this.
And lastly just about the holdback thing. I was wrong when stating what I typed, but never would I have used that as a leverage technique. I know this pays for the cost of doing business and that ultimately the manufacturer should and would pass on some incentives to the dealer. This is what should happen. I was just given the wrong advice (or misunderstood the advice) that if the dealer tries to tell you he is not making anything quote the holdback. Again I hope anyone that read that ends up seeing this post and realizes that I was wrong.
Call me Papino (sp), I'll drink their wine and eat their cheese.
The comfort was in knowing via Edmunds posting boards that the deal I received was tops or close to it for those that posted. On a model in higher then expected demand, and with other dealerships not touching the price. I wouldn't have known without this dialogue. The service I received was icing on the cake, and she has a customer that will look at her products and contact her before others, provide good word of mouth advertising. She already knows the type of customer I am. And what price I expect. I would hope she and the dealership see this as a plus. Also, bringing in a gift in front of the entire sales staff, GM, etc. may be viewed as kudos for her.
just curious - i hope you are happy whichever way you choose to go! :-)
-thene
I wish you well on your long and winding road to buying your new car.
To be honest with you, the PT Cruiser's resale value is not great. But I am not going to resell the car. I have a 94 Honda Civic and won't sell that either (as long as the maintance doesn't get to be too much). To me the best investment is to pick a car that you like and that you are willing to keep. In my opinion, reselling your car every 2 years because you want the new fad car is a bad investment. So to directly answer your question I am not going to resell the car, so the resale value is worthless to me. I went on reliability, word of much, personal preferences with looks, and manufacturer warranty when I decided on this car. I could have gone with a Hyundai or something to get a better warranty which would of been a better investment in the long run but I would have been compromising things such as buying a car I don't like just for its investment value. So when I weighed everything out this was my decision.
I felt the need to apologize for the misinformation that I put on a public forum. I ultimately don't want someone making the same misconception about the dealer holdback especially from something that I said.
And thank you for your wishes of good luck. Hopefully I can be satisfied and satisfy the dealer at the same time. The deal will be done tonight so I guess I can update you tomorrow if you wish.
-thene
I completely agree with you. I think a lot of people don't realize that this is not the best way to go. But we all know Americans (I am American so no one get mad) like to show their cars off. To be honest (and I know I might step on a toe or two) but buying a car is one of the worst investments you can make, period. The depreciation value in ridiculous, the money brought back on your investment is bad (the resale value), you have to continuously put money for the upkeep, financing rates are wild, etc. To put it bluntly, you are putting tens of thousands into your investment (through sale, maintance, finance, etc.)that ultimately will only bring you thousands back. This is one of the only type of investments that people know this and accept it because they want people to look at their car. If someone told you invest in our stock or bond so you can lose money you would look at them like they were crazy. But we are doing this with cars because not only do we need transportation to survive but we must be shown off in the best one. Yes I do want a car that looks good but I am also going to think of it as an investment.
Thene thanks again for the vote of good luck. But like we coaches say, it not about luck. It is about being prepared and putting yourself in a position to win. 8-) Thanks again.
The trick is to minimize that expense and balance that expense with your needs, wants and expectations.
Yeah of course there is no way to come on on top when buying a car but I look at is as an invsetment by how longit serves you in the long run. Transportation is a necessity in today's society so you either need a car, bike, truck, public, or something to get around. So buying a car is for neccessity in my case. The investement part comes in with how the car can serve you in the long run. You invest time, money, and effort into a vechile thus making it an investment in my opinion. Yes it is an investment that you will lose on but how much? You want and need to minimize the cost of this investment. TO me it will be minimized the quicker you pay it off and the longer you keep this without buying another one or trading it in to get another one. Jsut how I look at it though, and I think we are kind of on the same page.
The process went like this. I went back to the dealership that offered to beat any price. I had already concluded that this is where I was going to do business. I started to negotiate with the salesman and he immediately took the freight off to start talking price. I told him I wanted to talk price with the freight on because I might end up thinking that I am paying something for it that I am not because the freight or dest. was off. I told him the other offer was with freight included so I wanted to talk with freight included. Now he asked me what the other offer was and I told him that if he could bring it down to $14,600 before financing with Chrysler (remember I really want $14,800 but I start off here to act like I am getting more than I really want) and tags, taxes etc. then you will have you a deal right now. He tried to pull a little okie doke and tell me I can give it to you right now for $14,500 financing with us. Then I acted as though I got offended with the offer and like he was wasting my time. I told him this is ridiculous because I was getting another offer that did not include the $1000 rebate if I finance with Chrysler and you are trying to beat it by a little but I had to finance with Chrysler. I told the salesman that you are not giving me the best deal and that he was really disappointing me becuase he promised me the best.
So then we started crunching the number that he showed me with what I was getting from the other dealership. I told him I got an offer of $15,000 flat from the other dealership before financing so it would be $14,000 flat with financing. His offer of $14,500 was more and he then realized this. So he asked me what do we have to do to get this deal done. I told him $13,600 if I finance with you all. He asked me if i can get it down to $13,000 will I buy right now. I said hell ya,lol. So, I gave him a $20 cash deposit to show him I was serious and he took it to his manager. After about 10 minutes his manager came in to sit down and talk. Immediately he asked how did I get to the number of $13,000. I showed him the two scenarios of the two delaerships and showed that the other was offering me a little under $14,000 for the car. He then asked so where did the $13,000 come from and I told him this is what your salesman put out there to see if I would accept. The manager then immediately said that there is no way possible that he could do $13,000 and that I could have my money back and leave now. I then said my offer is not $13,000 I know that is too low, my offer is $13,600. SO then we got into a debate for about an hour. He was telling me that he was coming out of his holdback just to match the offer of the other dealership at a little under 14. I then told him about manufacturer to delaer incentives, monthly quotas, in addition to holdback, hidden rebates, and some other things that will make it profitable for them to make the deal. He then stated that I was smart (I guess I owe that to Edmunds and you all ) but reassured me the he is only working with the holdback. I said ok whatever I will take that but do I belive it no.
So he then said we will match their offer and then went on to say they sold the car anyway so I wouldn't be able to go get at the other dealership. I said oh really, well let me call and see if they really sold it. He then got a little apprenhensive, I guess I called his bluff. Next he said that the offer they guy at the other dealership is not written in stone so he could have been bsing me. I told him he could have and if I go down there and he quotes anything other than he did to me the other day or tried to charge anything more that what needed to be then I would leave, but it was worth me going down there to do that deal if he wasn't bsing. He then went on to say ok your educated about this thing, lets act like men here. You offer from the other place is a little under $14,000; you want $13,600, so let's split the difference. he gave me an offer of 14.8 and some change. I told him $14,800 and he said ok. We shook hands and that was it.
Oh yeah I decided to finance with Chrysler becuase they gave me 5.9% and the $1000 cash back. I know in the long run it will still cost me more than the 3.99%. But what I am going to do is either pay it off in 2.5 years or refinance in 2 monthes. I have a 60 month term at 5.9% while putting $1000 down. I looked at 4 sceranios (total long run cost). They were 5.9% for 48 monthes with 0 down, 5.9% for 48 monthes with $1000 down, 5.9% for 60 monthes with 0 down, and 5.9% for 60 monthes with $1000. After calculating it, the best deal was 5.9% for 48 monthes with $1000 down, and the second best was 5.9% at 60 monthes with $1000 down (there was an $1400 difference in long run expense, but from the 2nd to 3rd it was a $800 diff, and from 3rd. to 4th it was a $600 difference. You can add those up to see the difference between the 1st and last, etc.). So out of the 4 sceranios I decided to take the second best because of a lower mothly payment and because I decided that I would pay to the principal every month or refinance. So let's be realistic, at least I wasn't get the worst but I was not getting the best, but this was my own choice. The best sceranio called for a monthly payment almost $60 more than the second best sceranio. But overall the experience was good and I got whatI was looking for.
Oh yeah just to let everyone know I did not get taken on the backdoor exepnses (at least I hope, lol). I double and triple checked to make sure nothing was wrong. SO I am not going to say I didn't but I did not see anything there that wasn't supposed to be. There was only one tax, tag, processing fee, freight (or dest. fee), and I signed up for a $875 protection plan which gives free oil changes and a lot of other things for the LIFE of your car. Oh yeah there was a $100 fee for something so I might have been got for this. Also I did not accept any of the extended warranties or insurance they were offering. It went well for me and I hope that it was beneficial for all sides. Everybody thanks again for everything. I really do appreciate it.
Way too much trouble to "save" way too little money.
Your opinion may vary. The poster is happy and I guess that's all that matters.
And a good example of why the car business continues to lose quality people.
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2015 Kia Soul, 2021 Subaru Forester (kirstie_h), 2024 GMC Sierra 1500 (mr. kirstie_h)
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What is the moral to this story?
1) Selling cars can be tough. Sure, it is easy to sell Odysseys when the demand is high and the inventory is low. However, selling over-stocked vehicles in a down market is not easy, and sales people have to learn how to deal with it.
2) This is a great time to buy a car. The dealers want our money and will accept extremely low offers.
Any other lessons come to mand. Here4, what would you do differently next time?
Bob