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Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories
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Go to the dealer and say, "I will give you $30K and my two cars for those two new cars over yonder".
If they don't accept, then go home, compute a new offer, and try again.
Bobst,
Could you elaborate on what you do when an offer is refused. Specifically, what do you say and how do you act when you are at the dealer? Thanks.
At least that is what we try to do. The last couple times the sales people came out to the parking lot to tell us our offer had been accepted.
To quote another poster, it will lose its value "faster than an anvil dropped on Jupiter" :P
I'm just glad i bought a jupiter bound anvil valued Cadillac
1. Free lifetime oil changes (I pay $5 filter)
Our Miata came with free oil AND filter changes
Our CTS came with 3 freee SYNTHETIC oil and filter changes
2. Free lubrication (free lub on ball joints, grease fittings, and movable ball hinges)
wow, like they were going to forget that on a LOF???
Do you know what LOF stands for?? (not the glass company)
3. Free set of manufacturer floor mates (4 in total)
STANDARD EQUIPMENT (nice carpeted mats) in the Cadillacs and the Miata
4. Free paint sealant (sealant on top on the manufacturer clear paint coat)
search for mop n glo in the forums
5. Free semi-annual safety inspections
Done every time I bring a car in to the dealer
6. Free tire rotation and wheel balancing
This might actually be worth something, maybe $160 total
7. Free state pre-safety inspection and free estimate on any work needed
no inspections in FL, so refraining from comment
8. Free 4-season inspection
refer to # 5 above
9. Free car wash each time the car is serviced for anything
Done every time I bring any of the Cadillacs in,
heck sometimes, the salesman will take it to the wash while i'm hanging around
10. Annual Reconditioning $75 whenever (includes engine cleaning, shampoo interior, and hand polish exterior)
I get this for less at the local car washes
11. 30% rental charge on cars rented from them
Free loaners on the wife's CTS (and it's a Cadillac loaner)
12. 5% off any body work done
Who gets body work done at dealers????? Quality body ships are much better
13. 5% off any accessory purchased
I usually get 20-40% off at the parts counter
14. 5% off tire and mounting "
wow you're still paying double at the dealer, so only 95% overpaying now???
I think you did ok on the car price, but they made most of it up in this "package"
And it's for a ps cruiser ?!?
You wasted an hour doing this? Jeez, you could have walked in, offered invoice, and walked out when they said NO - all in 5 minutes. Then they would have followed you into the parking lot and accepted your offer.
It would have saved you $100 and 55 minutes out of your life - time that could have been better spent watching reruns of Paris Hilton in 'The Simple Life'. Think about it.
Terry.
The 'simple' method you have described may work on occasion. But, I bet the majority of time the buyer will be walking back to the same car he drove in with.
I would think the majority of times you have attempted this method... you ended up back home watching 'The Simple Life' in it's entirety. Then having to go back out, wasting countless hours test driving and trying to find another vehicle you like, with the options and color you want.This short term thinking/strategy may work on occasion.But, in the long run it would end up costing the buyer more in time,,,which as everyone knows...time is money.
My strategy worked for me and I had a plesant buying experience overall. So, I'm
If you offer that much or more, you get the car. If you offer less, you ain't getting it.
So why drag it out for an hour and make the poor salesman miserable? It is much more considerate to just walk in, make your take-it-or-shove-it offer, and leave if you don't hear a Yes in a couple minutes. I don't like to waste people's time, unless they want to discuss some of my theories on the golf swing.
If that car buying method is good enough for the lovely Paris, it's good enough for me.
Though I really don't think I'm that far off on how you work a deal. I go in with a number...if they don't meet it in due time, I'm gone. I thought that by starting out just a little low,then going up a bit to what I want to pay, that would leave the saleman with some sense of dignity....a sense of accomplishing something. Don't you think the salesman you dealt with felt 'more miserable' with your method...that they got steamrolled...that they didn't do their job :confuse:
May I ask what your success rate with this method had been thus far? My thinking was the vast majority of salesmen would try to "bump" you up four or five hundred. Giving a straight answer goes against everything a saleman is taught...doesn't it?
Anyhow, since you mentioned golf. I hit a natural fade and was wanting to work on hitting a draw. Any ideas? Thanks,
The Jipster
On our last two car purchases, the first dealer accepted our offer. On the 1999 Accord, we tried three dealers before one accepted.
"My thinking was the vast majority of salesmen would try to "bump" you up four or five hundred." Yep, you are exactly right
"Giving a straight answer goes against everything a saleman is taught...doesn't it?"
Yep, it sure does. But when they know you have money and you are heading to your car, they can give a Yes answer very quickly.
Are you sure you want to hit a draw? It can turn into a nasty hook very easily, and that can get you in lots of trouble!!
On the 1999 Accord, we tried three dealers before one accepted."
Bobst, when you present your offer to the dealer, doesn't he ask
how you arrived at your figure so that he can try to pick it apart?
I'm sure you have a way of handling this.
I present my offer as another dealer's number, go in with the
deal written up or a printout from an Internet offer and ask if the
salesman can beat the OTD price. If not, I walk. Nothing to explain,
nothing to discuss.
Negotiating involves making concessions, and that means losing
money. So I agree with your "take it or leave it" strategy.
I wouldn't be comfortable with the bobst method, even though I think it's fabulous that it works for you and you're happy with it. It's just not my style. I don't like driving all over town to save a few hundred $$, but maybe it doesn't bother you in the least. More power to ya. But it isn't for me, and it just may not be jipster's bag either.
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everyone buys cars differently - if you want to haggle every last cent out of a dealer, fine. if you want to pay msrp, fine. if you want to buy a car based on payment, fine. you do what works best for you!
-thene
I don't do it his way.. but, I never discuss how I "arrived" at my offer.. What possible positive outcome could that achieve?
regards,
kyfdx
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Bingo.....!
Terry.
. This was the July 2004 model though. Current rebates aren't that high on the Mazda MPV....yet.
However, I take it as a complement that my car buying method is so simple that anyone can understand it.
No, I don't answer silly questions like "How did you arrive at this offer?". I am tempted to tell them I found it in a nice warm, dark place.
I get asked everyday for written "quotes" and we won't do this. I do love it when I get one of these brought to me by a shopper eager to pit the other guy against me.
And I feel sorry for the other salesperson wh was probably subjected to tons of questions and a couple of miserable test drives only to have his lovely customer buy the car from me because I "saved" him a lousy hundred bucks!
kristie has the approach I will have when I leave this business. My same method I've always used. Geez...life is short!
The ones around here gave me exact quotes. However, they were all part of the vaunted Rosenthal group, so maybe they knew we were serious buyers since we had bought three cars from that group.
Should I just ignore them and allow them to assume I was a flake? Am I rubbing the lost sale in their face by replying? I would tend to think that a negative reply would prevent them from exerting further efforts, plus I tend to prefer closure... Did I get that right?
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nothing like people who ask you for a whole bunch of info, then never get back to you...at least have that courtesy - even if you bought elsewhere :-)
-thene
to shop they deserve to lose the sale."
I sent Edmund's Web inquiries to several Internet managers and received
a couple of very good offers (the lowball bait). Upon arriving at each
dealership, both Internet managers immediately turned me over to a regular
salesman (the TO) who explained why that car was not available (the switch),
but for a higher price… One offered $100 for my 12-year old beater;
the other $50. I checked the inventory at each, took a test drive, and was
always polite (even to the yoyo who kept asking what he had to do to put
me in a new car TODAY). Got followed back to my car at both places with
"What ifs" and "Maybes." But they had lost me with the bait & switch.
So I took the Internet offers, subtracted a more reasonable $500 and $800
(Kelley and NADA wholesale) for my trade, added the normal TTL,
figured the OTD. And presto, I printed out two very good offers. These
homemade (but reasonable) offers were what I shopped around.
"And I feel sorry for the other salesperson who was probably subjected to tons
of questions and a couple of miserable test drives only to have his lovely
customer buy the car from me because I "saved" him a lousy hundred bucks!"
Naw, they deserved it. "Lousy hundred bucks?" I have yet to find a dealer
who doesn't fight for the $10 state inspection fee, $10 to switch the plates,
overcharge for a paper work fee, etc. Which is precisely why my
(er, the other dealer's) price is always OTD.
Be careful when you wrestle with a pig, you'll only get dirty
while the pig is enjoying it. ~ Anon.
I called back the dealership that left me a voicemail and told them I was no longer in the market. Extra karma bonus: I was nice about it, even though they were rather perturbed during our attempted negotiations... The person who did the follow-up wasn't one of the people I talked to anyway, and made for a grand total of four different salespersons I had been handed off between at that single dealership... Having (probably) burned my bridges with my local dealership, I'd like to keep all the other avenues open!
I'm not about to give you a number to go shop but I love it when other dealers do this!
Some places delight in having fun with the "smart shoppers" who pit one dealer against the other. They will downright lie in order to get you in the door. I've seen people drive four hours chasing a non existant "deal".
Although we don't do this, it can be SO tempting sometimes.
My best advise is to deal with a trusted store with a good reputation. Ask your family and friends for a REFERRAL instead of trying to grind out the last dollar.
Your blood pressure will thank you!
Well, yes I did and I thoroughly enjoyed the buying experience. It's like
chess or a strategic battle of wills. There is no substitute for winning.
But I did refuse to deal with the bait & switch guys.
"Some places delight in having fun with the "smart shoppers" who pit one
dealer against the other. They will downright lie in order to get you in the door."
No, I'm shocked. :-0 Just as shocked by all the local dealers who've been
caught playing with odometers and bugging sales offices.
"I've seen people drive four hours chasing a non existant "deal"."
There are ten Ford dealers in the Buffalo area and ten more in the outer
suburbs, although I'd much rather shop a Lincoln-Mercury dealer. Far
fewer games, more sophisticated buyers, I suppose. But there is no L-M
version of the Focus.
"My best advise is to deal with a trusted store with a good reputation."
Then I'd really have a four hour drive and I'm not sure if that would do it.
"Your blood pressure will thank you!"
My BP is fine so I'd rather keep my wallet happy.
Seriously, though…as long as car dealers operate like horse traders,
we'll be buying cars in the muddy coral.
You summarized it perfectly!
When a car buyer learns where to step, shopping in a muddy corral is just fine.
If not, then why not try it? You may find the local dealers will accept your offer.
i think you are 99% better off getting a car from a local dealer than driving 5 hours away for a car, IMO
good luck!
-thene
I would simply tell your local dealer that you can buy a Pilot for XX amount of dollars but you would rather not travel five hours to buy it. Ask if they can match the price or come close to it.
It really doesn't have to be that hard.
Why tell the dealer you would have to travel 5 hours to get price XX? He doesn't need to know that.
If you tell the local dealer that you will have to travel 5 hours to get price XX, the local dealer will give you a price like XX+$400 and refuse to budge.
On the other hand, if you offer XX to the local dealer, he might accept it, or he might only bump you up $100 or so.
Like I learned playing poker when I was 16. Don't show your cards. I recall that I lost $10 that day, and haven't played poker since.
Life is short...
Get my Credit Unions loan rate for myself.
Make list of TMV/invoice/fees/KBB for trade in/etc.
Test drive in town dealers (talk with onsite dealer at each one)
Email for out of town quotes (ones that I'd be willing to drive if got super good price)
Bring lowest bid to favorite dealer.
Also see somewhere in there what the dealers loan would be compared to my credit union, and if it would help the price.
I'd like to agree on a price before I bother to send (and pay $140 for) the Auto Check inspectors there to look at it and certainly before I bother to drive three hours there. From my research, the dealership is asking $1500 over Edmunds' TMV and $2000 over what my credit union thinks the car is worth.
I have only bought one car personally in my lifetime, and it was brand new and a fairly pain-free Internet dealing experience. I'm wondering what the best course of action is to negotiate this price long-distance. I'm going to have to do it over the phone, obviously. I'm not sure which way to go here. Should I tell them I'm interested in the car, am willing to drive to Houston if we can agree on a price and if the car passes Auto Check, and ask THEM what their best OTD offer is to begin with? I know the ultimate OTD figure that I'm willing to pay, and while I like the Bobst method of negotiation in theory, I'm wary of using it and ending up paying more than I need to. I am a poor librarian.
Also, I'm uncertain as to who I should attempt to contact. I originally called the number on the listing and got the used car sales manager for the dealership, which has three different branches in Houston. He was very nice and has called me several times this week to see if the salesmen at the dealership location which has the car have sent me pictures, answered questions, etc. The problem is these salesmen--two of which have called me--have left me very long, pressuresome, unpleasant voice messages about the car. One of them speaks so fast I'm not sure what his name actually *is*. (I've been interviewing candidates for a position in our library this week and I told the sales manager that I wouldn't be able to take calls about the car at work, but I could discuss it at home after work hours. The sales manager seems to understand this, but the salespersons at the actual location where the car is don't.)
I want to treat the salespeople with consideration, but I don't feel that I have any kind of relationship with the two that have called and left messages, and I'm a little confused as to why so many people are calling to begin with. Is it appopriate to respond only to the sales manager that I've actually spoken with?
Thanks for any advice.
I understand that Saturn LW wagons are not that plentiful, but this one isn't even bargain priced....
It sounds like buying a car more that is 3 hours from home, is more trouble than it is worth..
regards,
kyfdx
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And, Saturns aren't very good sellers either new or used. It should be bargain priced if they want it to sell!
Isellhondas, what's the usual turn around time for used vehicles on your lot? I would think six months would be a seriously long time, though as you pointed out Saturns *aren't* very good sellers new or used.
They depreciate terribly, too. My boyfriend has an '01 LW200 though that I love, and I'm having troubles finding anything else that has the cargo capacity of those wagons with similar gas mileage. I also don't want to spend more than $13-14k or so. (I decided that it would be more sensible to buy a used car with a shorter loan length, giving me my credit union's best loan rate, than it would be to buy a new ~$18K car and have a longer loan.) Do either of you have any suggestions for a reasonable alternative?
Used Saturns, if you happen to like them, can be a really good value. Not bad cars, really, just a car that doesn't appeal to the masses either new or used.
I would simply keep looking. Just know there aren't many of those wagons out there. Or you could drive to that lot and make them a really low offer and see if they jump on it.
if that car has been there since march, im surprised they arent handing it away to the first person who even shows some interest...maybe its for that fact that they know you're hot on it that they will try to see if they can sell it at a higher price...
good luck!
-thene
The Saturn wagon in question was for sale for 13K, which is 2K more than my credit union and the NADA thought it was worth, and about $1500 more than Edmunds' most generous TMV. Since it had been there six months, I offered them 11K out the door. They told me they could not accept anything less than 13K out the door, so I thanked them and told them we couldn't come to an agreement. They can keep it another six months!
It was a bizarre experience overall and I suspect that there was something else going on there. I can't figure why they'd turn down a buyer with financing in hand who was ready to buy a car that had sat there that long.
My guess is that you didn't offer enogh money. I think that is why some of our offers have been turned down.