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Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories
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I do like your Bobst method of negotiating, though!
They have offered various finance options, just no dealing , no rebates. I have mentioned I do not need financing, I can write them a check for the HHR & they don't seem to care.
Suggestions?
Don't mean to be flippant, but I think buying a first-year of production GM car, new at MSRP or close, is not a wise choice - for reasons of potential reliability problems and recalls, as well as expected depreciation. Gently used Pontiac Vibe, perhaps?
First, do I need a cashier's check, Bank check or will a personal check be ok?
Also, the MSRP is 28,200, invoice is 26,200. Is it fair to expect the OTD price to be 200-300 above invoice?
Also, is knowing I plan on walking out the door with a car(and this car has been in the dealer's inventory for 2 weeks now) a motivator for the dealer to meet my price?
Mark
Any info is appreciated.
First, do I need a cashier's check, Bank check or will a personal check be ok?
You'll probably need to get a bank check, but it depends on the dealer. Ask them what their policy is.
Also, the MSRP is 28,200, invoice is 26,200. Is it fair to expect the OTD price to be 200-300 above invoice?
Not for the Chrysler 300 - it's still a hot car so they won't be giving them away. You can try offering that, but if you expect to get it you'll probably be disappointed. Edmunds TMV in my area is MSRP.
Also, is knowing I plan on walking out the door with a car(and this car has been in the dealer's inventory for 2 weeks now) a motivator for the dealer to meet my price?
For a car that's only been there for 2 weeks? No, sorry. If it had been sitting there for months, then maybe. Plus, as I stated above, the 300 is a hot car so they won't be worried about not being able to sell it.
The reason I'm asking is that sometime you get people that say "I got the car for $100 over invoice!", but don't mention the $300 doc fee they paid or the $2000 extended warranty they bought but could have gotten for $1000. Or the $3000 they got for their trade-in that was really worth $4000. Or the 9% interest rate they got when the going rate is 5%. The dealers can up the final transaction price in a wide variety of ways. I'm not saying this happened with you, but be aware.
But again, just an illustration of why "$X over invoice" doesn't mean a lot...
I admitted that monthly payments were the most important to me recently at 2 different dealerships and told them what I was looking to spend a month. I felt that the first guy was just trying to dump a car on me that nobody else wanted and the other guy was trying to sell me anything. "I got a few that would work for you". I didn't like or trust him for other reasons so I didn't bother talking to him.
My response: "How much are you looking to make?"
That exchange pretty much sets the tone for negotiations.
The worst thing you can do is give the salesperson a monthly figure (or purchase price, for that matter) that you are "looking to spend" as he puts it. For example, if you give the salesperson the criteria of a $300/month payment, you have empowered the salesperson to put you in a car, any car as long as your monthly payment is no more than $300/mo. He is free to work up a deal for an inexpensive car at MSRP and at 12% interest and low and behold.....$299/month! Of course, what you don't know is that the customer he sold a car to this morning got a much nicer car that normally sells for $4,000 more than yours and at 3.9% interest with a payment of $299/month because there were $2,500 in rebates available and that customer was a hard negotiator!
In order to avoid the scenario above, I would suggest that you do the following:
1) first, line up financing for your new car purchase. Talk to your bank, credit union, or Capital One Auto Finance. All you need from them is a solid estimate of the loan amount (plus interest) that equals your target monthly payment. You're not taking out a loan yet, you just need an idea. This will put you in the right ball park as far as the price of cars you can consider for purchase.
2) With this loan amount in mind, begin to research cars on the web. Edmunds is outstanding for evaluating features, costs of ownership, accident test results, etc. Select a few cars that you feel would meet your needs and that are priced close to your estimated loan amount.
3) Visit dealerships and do a test drive of each of the cars you are considering as a result of your research. Just tell the salesperson you are evaluating several cars before making a choice and you simply need a test drive, you are not buying today. Just drive each car, ask questions, get the salesperson's card and leave. You know from your research and preparation that each vehicle will fit within your budget, so any talk about price right now is not necessary.
4) After you have driven them all, you will hopefully be able to choose one that you like and that meets your needs. Once this is done, you can begin to negotiate the purchase of it.
This method (or a variation of it to fit your taste) will enable you to focus on negotiating the best deal possible for the specific car that you choose, as opposed to having the salesperson price a car to fit your budget.
The exception to this, of course, is if you get one of those really really nice car dealers who lower the price of their cars so that they fit into your budget.
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We also see people who grind price endlessly only to say ...oh, I need to be at $250 a month. But mr customer your looking at a $30K car...well mr salesperson maybe the next dealer can do it...and off they go... You would be amazed how many folks have no clue.
Smart shoppers can tie together a price to a payment but quite frankly alot of car buyers are not smart shoppers. They know they have $xxx to put down and they want to spend $xxx per month...all they want to know is what is the most car they can get....Your suggestions are fine...but most consumers just arent going to do all that. One key thing you left out, what about doing some research on the dealership or getting a referral?.....Finding a quality retailer can make the entire process much easier...Sometimes buyers find out that the lowest price may not be the best deal.
OTOH, a buyer who is reading this forum is a bit more likely to do the research I suggested which is why I took the time to give my opinion.
I've got a story about a dealership referral that you'll find ironic: lady friend of mine told my wife last week that she wants a new car....either ES330 or RX330. Wife gave her the name of the GM of one of the Lexus dealerships in town. GM is a personal acquaintance of ours and we have bought a couple cars from him. Dealership is top notch with high marks nationally in customer service. Long story short, she goes to dealership and has what she describes as a NIGHTMARE experience! I say WHAT!!!!????? She tells me she felt "belittled", "looked down on", "humiliated", you get the drift. She left the dealership and hired a broker who found her a beautiful RX330 two days later.
Turns out, she didn't ask for my GM buddy at the dealership. This young lady also pulled on the parking lot in her 1992 Honda Civic and had a little bit of the "grunge" look going that day. I guess she didn't appear to be a good buyer to the salesman and he made her feel like it.
Unfortunately for him, he wasn't aware that she's an MD with plenty of money to spend who has simply been content with her 13 year old Honda. Now don't I look like the idiot for recommending this dealer! Next time I give a referral (yes, there will be a next time), you can bet I'm calling the guy and telling him to expect so-and-so to come in and he better roll out the red carpet!
Thanks for making my point. How in the world would your average forum reader know that Chrysler adds $300 to invoices in the Northeast and Texas? Again, "$X over invoice" doesn't tell us much, but "I paid $X out-the-door" does.
I'm looking at used though..so guess it kind of makes it harder. I do know what I want though, what my monthly limit is and my total limit.
Funny that someone mentioned the "What kind of deal will it take to put you in the car today" lol I've gotten that from a guy who I don't think I told a monthly payment or total price, I was vague with him. But I answered the question with "$100 a month", he laughed and said sure if I put down a down payment of like $7,000 which I couldn't do. The same guy also did the "Up To" trick which I played along with because I had no intentions of buying the car, I was more interested in what price he'd actually quote me..trying to get an idea on their prices since they didn't have prices listed on the cars.
I stated this fact because you referred to Edmunds' TMV pricing. Edmunds has the base price correct, but with minor digging, you can find the extra $300 in the options. Not trying to fight with you, just saying that you can't make a blanket statement that "Edmunds has invoice at $x, and you paid $x+y, therefore the dealership clearly got you for y-profit."
I've done that before. I was at what I later found out was a famously unscrupulous Dodge Dealership in Philly looking at Dakotas. The type of place where as I walked back to my old truck I was dragging the salesman with one ankle and the sales manager with the other, both blabbing on and on about how they just got off the phone with Chrysler as I was walking out, and there was another 10,000 dollars in rebates they completely forgot about.
The salesguy started off after the test drive by asking me what he would need to do to get me into a truck TO-DAY. Not TO-MORROW, not NEXT WEEK. TO-DAY! I offered 5 bucks, got a good laugh out of him.
I gave them my OTD price right off. After an hour of their games of finding more money, I had to leave and take a shower.
I totally agree with you.
Well, you spent about 45 more mins there than I would have. I would only let it go to one counter-offer by me, and if that's not acceptable then I would have been gone. 15 mins max.
Actually, I thought the whole thing was funny because the two salesmen I ended up were telling stories about what an awful place it is to work at.
Is it to show the manager that the sales rep was working and the customer ( me) did NOT buy a car?
Invoice is $31,052. How much should I exepect to pay? Edmunds says expect to pay the full MSRP. That's a dealer profit of $2,660 BEFORE the holdback!!!!
(FYI-- located in Boston area)
All advice is appreciated
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If you are into cars like we are, doing it on your own is more fun. If you aren't into cars, a buying service is pretty good.
I used a buying service (United Buying Service in the DC area) in 1987 and was happy with the experience.
He shopped around pretty good and did not have a trade to deal with.
He said Costco's number was better than he could do by $500.
The only way to know what price you can or cannot get on a car is to make a firm offer and see if they accept.
If your dad just asked the dealer what their price was, he probably did not get a low figure.
If he had gone into the dealer and laid down an amount of money equal to Costco's price minus $300, do you think it might have been accepted? You'll never know.
Some of us love the car buying experience and have fun trying to get the lowest price we can. Others see car buying as a hassle and want to take the easy way out, and a service like Costco is great for those people.
Either way is fine. The main thing is to get the car that you want. I think cars are the greatest invention in human history.
He did. He tried to see if 2 other dealers could beat the price. Both said that they could not touch it. So he was happy that he got what he what he believes is the best deal available.
Is he a 100% certain he got every last nickel out of the deal? Probably not, but who ever really is. You do the best the best that you can on a car that you like. Sometimes that method needs to be different depending on how popular a car is,like th Highlander.
I never thought I would see the day where he would use a buying service to buy a car , but it must have been better than his old method or he would not have used it.
From what I understand , even the Bobst method has been retired.
I'm trying to find the balance of having time to find the right car/right deal without being rushed into something later in the year because Dec. 25th is coming (and that is kind of a deadline!) and not having a huge investment/insurance sitting in someone's garage for 2 months. A couple of people have tried to convince me to wait because of the convertible factor, but I'm thinking that's probably the least of my considerations.
Might be wrong, though, and these forums have been a wonderful resource during my past buying experiences, so I thought I'd ask.
Thanks!
Where were you back when I was single??? LOL
I live in the SE, and I have a friend that lives up north that is a huge Miata (convertible obviously) fan. He buys a new (used) one every couple of years. He has me keep an eye out for him throughout the year, and when I spot a good deal, he will come down and take a look. We have noticed that late November through mid January there are more Miatas in the classifieds, autotrader, etc..., and people are a little more willing to negotiate. There isn't any exact scientific research that backs up what I have just told you - just my personal experience at looking for Miatas.
But, Mustangs, Sebrings, etc. are often someones only car, and used for daily transpoprtation year round.
I don't know if this relaly matters, but in my mind, the seasonal fluctuation of a Miata will likely be greater than a Mustang.
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