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Comments
Lars
The orange on black display that I have is very easy to read day or night as well. Maybe I don't feel mine as obtrusive because I also have the light tan interor, so the brightness of the orange doesn't jump out at me.
The only thing I'm not really feeling is the way they have the sharp colors on the dash and then the industry standard (from years gone by) green for the radio and climate controls. They could have made those blue or white and it would have been really nice.
Then you must not be in North America.
As for someone's comments about salesmen not knowing their stuff...well our Dealer sent a team of Salesmen/Techicians to Korea for training to support the Azera.
Doesn't mean the actually learned anything.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
I never said that crash tests were meaningless because I just wouldn't jump in a car that has my chances listed at 50/50.
Let's be real here, a 5 star rating doesn't mean that you won't sustain injuries, just that the liklihood has been lessened. The difference between 5 stars and 4 is 10%, however...you don't get an exact rating, so the Azera could be at the higher end of that 4th star which COULD only mean there's a 1% higher chance. Those cars with 5 star ratings could be at the lower end of that 5th star. All in all, the Azera sits in the 20% group. A 20% chance of some sort of injury, in the event of an accident.
The funny thing about testing with dummies is that dummies don't react to accidents as a human would. There are cases where a person's reaction saved them from potential injury. There's nothing out here that can duplicate the human body and how it reacts to an accident. There's no way to factor the unknown into test results. That being said, if you're a good driver with solid skills and good habits, you have taken a car with a 4 star rating and made it worthy of 5 stars.
I respect what you're saying because we are all entitled to our own thoughts and opinions. I'm not merely brushing the crash test results off as something meaningless, it's just not the most important factor in my purchase decision.
The only engine option listed here is the 3.8 V-6
Over here, we don't have the option of picking and choosing options on the car. The Ultimate package here comes with all the bells and whistles including the driver's seat memory option.
I'm definitely enjoying mine. The more I drive it, the more I love it. I keep looking for excuses to hop in it and take a drive. The wife is getting suspicious of my multiple trips to the grocery store in one day! LOL
One simple question, "Does this Sonata still have a timing belt or did Hyundai swith to timing chains finally?"
Salesman answered, "Ummmmmmm...let me check with the service department and get back to you on that."
To go one step further, the finance folks where I bought my Azera didn't know squat either. When it came time to sign the paperwork, I noticed they hadn't given me my $1000 Hyundai Owner Loyalty rebate. They told me that the offer was over. I referred them to Hyundai's website stating that the $1000 cash back was indeed valid and good for the Santa Fe, Sonata & Azera and $500 for the rest of the line up. The guy went and looked and saw that the date of the offer was from 2/1-06 thru 2/28/06 and we were in there on 2/28. After a couple back and forths with the finance manager, they gave it to me with a big apology.
The internet can be a handy tool and those folks need to understand that the consumer is more educated than in the past when we didn't have the resources we have now. Some are just plain ignorant and don't care.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
http://www.hyundaiusa.com/financing/specialoffers/special_offers.aspx
I was layed off from my job in 2003 - first time I'd ever experienced a lay off! - and, as an interim measure, I took a sales job at a local new car dealer. There's significant turnover in new car sales, and it's a serious challenge for the average sales person to be fully educated on each vehicle.
In my case, I worked for a Five-Star Dodge/Jeep dealer, and Daimler-Chrysler has a very rigorous and thorough online training system. You must receive certification for each model. Even with this system, some customers seemed to know more than I did. Remember, the customer researches the devil out of the specific model that he/she is considering, but the sales person must have knowledge on all the new vehicles offered by the dealership.
Your experience, however, does beg the question on how thorough Hyundai's sales training program is, or perhaps the dealer's.
I can't speak on Hyundai's sales training program (if one even exists). The guy was rather young and I think I intimidated him by knowing what I knew about the car up front. However, he shouldn't have been surprised considering I owned a 2002 Sonata at the time. However, it was simply one small question concerning a major change and I felt that something like that should be common knowledge! :surprise:
So personally, if I wanted to keep up...I would get online whenever I could just to see what's being said about the various cars. I'm always grabbing car publications and reading the various comparos and other tests they do. You'd be surprised how heated a conversation can get when it comes to cars around my way. So if you don't what you're talkin about, you'll get chumped pretty quickly.
When it came to the salesman for the Azera...oh, he was on top of his game.
Sure it can be done, but in the specific example you gave, it's entirely possible that this salesperson was relatively new, and really wasn't "trained." This points to a deficiency in Hyundai's training program, or more likely, the dealer's.
OTOH, it's easier said than done knowing all of the specifics of each model vehicle a new car dealer offers. This shouldn't be too much of a problem with Hyundai, but with some domestics, it's a real challenge. "What is the final drive ratio of A truck when using B engine, vs. the X truck using Y engine." Extrapolate this over a number of models of cars, trucks, and SUVs, and you can appreciate the problem.
As a prospective car buyer, I've always been more knowledgeable concerning the vehicle I was considering than any of the salespersons I've ever dealt with.
I asked the Service Manager, and one of the Hyundai techs about this. Interestingly, they both said that they can't get anything anlagous to these materials from Hyundai, but Kia provides all types of service-related support. I find this very strange indeed.
I don't expect the salesman to know every possible little detail about a car. I do expect them to know the difference between a 4 cylinder and a 6 cylinder engine.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
It could be that their print and distribution department is a department of Kia.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
You are not correct on the point you tried to make when you typed, "If you are going 50mph and the on-coming car is going 50mph the net impact is equivalent to hitting an immovable barrier at 100mph."
Your statement is not compatible with the laws of physics.
Theoretically, in a perfectly aligned head on collision of two same sized cars, each going 50 mph, at impact, both cars would immediately stop further movement. This is the same as one car at 50 mph hitting an immovable stationary barrier. The deceleration for all three cars would be from 50 mph to 0 mph in an instant.
This is quite different from your innaccurate example in which a car at 100 mph hitting an immovable barrier would slow from 100 mph to 0 mph in an instant.
I know this will seem counter-intuitive to you, but that's tough. It's just physics.
Get it?
(I've heard people misstate the idea many times before you mentioned it in here. But that just means lots of other people are wrong too.)
Thank you so much, you're absolultely right.
Funny how people, in this case me, repeat things told to us by others without really thinking about it. It's almost as if one thinks the person making a statement, if they seem creditable, is taken without much thought and then of course it's repeated. :sick:
Not taken as counter-intuitive at all, physics as I well know is a science that few comprehend and I get it.
Even worse, the Sonata is not imported in V6 Version in France (though it is in Germany).
Ridiculous
Theoretically, in a perfectly aligned head on collision of two same sized cars, each going 50 mph, at impact, both cars would immediately stop further movement.
Nod
This is the same as one car at 50 mph hitting an immovable stationary barrier. The deceleration for all three cars would be from 50 mph to 0 mph
This is what I'd like to clarify. Speed wise, they are the same. However, there are huge differences in terms of damage. In physics, there is a term called kinetic energy which measures the damage is not caused by collision. Kinetic energy equals (mass*speed^2)/2 (so sorry that I have to write equations), which says that if the speed doubles, the amount of damages will be 4 times.
In the case of a car of 50 mpg runs into a wall, the total energy that causes damage will be the kinetic energy of the car, since walls don't move. However, when 2 cars collide, the total kinetic energy will be the sum of the kinetic energies of both cars, that is twice as much as a car hitting the wall. To be exact, 2 cars collide at 50 mph each is equilibrium to 1 car hitting a wall at 70 mph.
I was almost locked into Azera, yet have to give up at the Azera's below average crash results. I also researched the Sonata, and was told that the sonata had somewhat rough ride. Maybe end up I'll have to get a [non-permissible content removed] car.
Black interior= lighter/mustard/blonde/yellow,etc wood trim
I'm with you vjk. That is why I went with the gray interior. the darker color is more understated. the light wood in my opinion stands out too much. They should offer the darker wood with the black leather.
Other than that, fun car to drive and it feels more expensive than it is. I find that when I park, I check out the car before walking away as it is in my eyes very unique. it is fun to have the "only" one out there (for now) as opposed to zillions of accords.
Honda: Accord, Civic, CRV
Infinfity: I-35, G-35
Toyota: Camry (06 & 07) Avalon. Rav-4
Hyundai: Sonata, Azera
Buick: Lucerne
Ford:500; Fusion
Chevy:Impala
Pontiac: G6
Mazda: 6
VW: Passat, Jetta
Nissan: Altima, Maxima
Lexus LS(03&04)
Acura; TL
Audi: A4
BMW: 325, 330
Volvo: s40 and S80
Chrysler 300, Sebring
Dodge: Charger, Magnum
I have whittled it down to:
Accord, Sonata, Azera, G-35 and TL
As you can tell my price range is from $20,000 to 33,000. So far I am leaning toward the V6 Accord with Nav. I also like the Azera. My questions are this, 1) Are there any other cars in this range that I have missed that would be suggested? 2) I know of most of the specs of the Azera, but why should I pick this car over the Accord? 3)What has been the overall experience as far as ride and craftsmanship for your Azera?
I find it comfortable and not that noisy with the roof open even doing 60+ and higher.
Was without my diabetic meds for 10-12 days and went into a blackout.
Air bags went off, broke my writst and had pretty severe damage to my left leg, shin and kneecap.
Car saved my life - that is maybe the only reason I bought the Azera - for safety reasons.
ers don't work out on this 30,000 car.
I'll be real mad if the numb
Well Ford did - quality is
2006 Lincoln Zephyr
http://www.lincoln.com/zephyr/home.asp
As for Azera craftsmanship, I have not had any issues that could not be easily rectified. Very smooth ride and great visibility all around (unlike the Charger).
No.
You don't get it.
Your physics formula is not applicable to the car collision example I gave.
In my example of a head on collision of two similar cars you seem to ignore the fact that the damage is not just damage to one car, but two. As the two cars collide, they each soak up about half of the crash energy as they deform. There is no doubling of speed and no four times the damages.
It's not the fall that kills you, it's the sudden stop at the end. Each car stops suddenly from 50 mph, not 100, not 70. It is the extreme rate of deceleration that hurts.
A very different example would be if one of the two cars was Supercar, one which would not deform at all on impact. In that case, the normal car would have to absorb nearly all the collision energy and would be damaged more than if it had hit another crush-able car. The normal car would still be decelerating from 50 mph to 0, but over a shorter time and distance, as Supercar, in it's entirety, would continue its forward travel past the initial point of contact with the normal car. In that case (which was not my example at all) the net impact speed of the normal car (or, more accurately the rate of deceleration) would be more extreme because Supercar's front bumper did not become stationary at the moment it hit the normal car's front bumper.
In any case, your physics formula is not one which calculates car damage. It is only a formula which calculates kinetic energy.
Now if you want to talk about one car hitting an immovable barrier at 100 mph, compared to another similar car hitting it at 50 mph, then maybe you would find that the amount (measured how?) of damage to the faster car is four times as much as the slower one. But, maybe not.
Have you got some extra cars you'd like to test?
And besides, the discussion was about the relative safety of occupants in cars crashed, not physical damage to the cars.
My friend has an Accord two-door and it drives pretty good, but I really don't like the headlights. The Azera would give you more power and better options (without nav).
I like the Sonata, but I think the Azera's much better if you have the money. Definitely a better deal than the G35 or the TL. Also, you would be different from everyone else. I have only seen two Azera's on the road thus far. My 2cents.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Are you sure?
Fully loaded Fusion V6 SEL 4dr Sedan MSRP $26,445
Fully Loaded Milan V6 Premier 4dr Sedan MSRP $26,290
Depending on how you configure the car the Milan at times can be less than a comparably equipped Fusion.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D
Fully Loaded Milan V6 Premier 4dr Sedan MSRP $26,290
Fully loaded is vague. Do those 2 cars have the exact same equipment, or not?
I have the Ultima package on the Limited (can be bought around $28k or less MSRP $30)
a.) Absolutely no defects so far
b.) Likes-Acceleration, Visibility, Interior Volume, trunk volume, fold-down back seat flexibility Electric tilt/telescope wheel, Memory Seats, EZ Out where seat goes back and wheel recedes when key is removed, Sound System
c.)Dislikes-Mostly nits-Memory Seats only go to setting when key is inserted, wind-deflector for sunroof (option) makes noise at higher speeds (better without it),
getting used to front wheel drive...when you accelerate hard, if you spin wheels, you better be concentrating...and the 4 Star results on first crash tests (more to learn about that)
Relative to the loaded Accord for about the same buy price with Nav....If Nav is important then clearly there is no factory Nav on Azera. Azera has about 4 more cubic feet of interior passenger volume and about 2.5 cubic feet larger trunk. Most of the interior volume shows up in more legroom for both front and rear passengers....probably by far largest back seat in the class. Also, goodies like the EZ out, memory settings, pedal adjustments, rear-window shade, 330 watt Infinity Sound System with MP3 are there, as well as the longest warranty....and one you can extend out to 10 years for bumper to bumper for about $1100 which helps selling and ownership costs after year 5.
As for the TL....whole different class as far as I am concerned. Back seat is for midgets only!! Much smaller overall interior volume. On the other hand, the TL is a neat and sporty and high quality package with great technos. I don't think you can go wrong with the ones you have on your final list!! Good Luck and enjoy your car. Pick the one which has the features that are absolutely most important to you for the next 3-5 years.
Other big difference to consider is that Honda has super value-retention as a used car, whereas Hyundai has yet to come close in that department and probably won't for the expected time you may own it. Thus, you may want to factor that into your decision....OR if you are going to own it for 7-8 years then it is a moot point OR you may want to take advantage of the "subsidized" lease program which shifts much of the risk to Hyundai Finance!! Again, Good Luck!
Since this is a car forum, it may be better that we talk offline about physics. The point I'd like to make is that I do think people like me are disappointed about the azera's crash scores which will definitely affect the decisions and maybe even the perceptions about Hyundai. Unlike before, I start to believe that Hyundai still has a long way to go now.
anyway i live in baltimore, and i saw 2 azera on a same day few days ago. a black and a silver. this was the first time i saw it on the road, and man, it looks so much better than pics.
I must really be missing something with the new TL. I own the previous model of the TL. and as far as the interior goes, I like it much better than the current model. The current model seems so much cheaper and has so many rattles, I just couldn't make myself like it, even though when I originally saw one from the outside looking in, I did. After driving many different ones as loaners, I changed my mind big time. Also, the radio reception was not very good, in the same area in which I drove my TL. so area not the cause. Oh well as I said, beauty is.... :shades:
Many times when you equip the cars the same the Milan is cheaper.
2011 Hyundai Sonata, 2014 BMW 428i convertible, 2015 Honda CTX700D