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Not really. It gets in the way, makes it hard to design the steering wheel and makes it hard to see all the other controls (like wipers and such) for a feature someone is going to use twice, once on the test drive and once showing off to their buddies about how its as good as a real manual.
I agree. The one time I drove a manumatic (a Mitsu Eclipse rental), I shifted manually a couple of times but then quit. I mean really, what's the point?
Was interested to note that the IS250 convertible will launch with the 6-speed manual available - Toyota usually releases convertibles as automatics only, even if the car they are based on has an available manual. A good sign, perhaps.... :-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Of course, there's still none of the feedback or other advantages of the manual. Porsche also found this out the hard way. Despite being just as good as the manual, it's not nearly as fun and costs more. IIRC, Porsche sells less than 20% of their 911s with automatics.
Yup, I've seen it too and I rather like the car. Then I checked the Toyota web site and saw the following snippet describing the only transmission available for the Venza:
6-speed electronically controlled automatic overdrive transmission with intelligence (ECT-i) and sequential shift mode.
Well, needless to say, they completely lost me with that. No manual, no sale. Period, full stop, the end. :P
Best regards,
Shipo
I will take a different model and the manual trans please.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Well, you cannot blame Toyota for not putting a manual with the Venza - no way they would sell enough to make it worthwhile. Now, the IS250 convertible - that's very unusual, but Toyota's smart, they must have good reasons ($$$) for having a manual available.
I have a Camry with a 5 speed manual, and am looking forward to the Camry with the 6 speed manual! Good to hear Toyota is still offering new manuals.
Well that pretty much sums up the direction things are going doesn't it? But I am glad you said it rather than me.
Yes, the resale value is less, but that's just like most manual cars now. However, it saves about $900 on the purchase price.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I think we have only ever really disagreed about the time line and I still believe Nissan will beat them to it.
But then if the government gets to take control of the auto industry things could go even faster. I would consider converting to Propane somewhere down the line if it ever gets that bad.
It's better to remain in gear but cutoff fuel entirely. In order to idle you need some fuel to prevent stalling. But you can coast on deceleration and use no gas whatsoever!
This is how my Sienna manages such good mileage.
I've tried both in my wife's XC90. In both cases, the instant MPG gauge reads "99.9 mpg." Now, of course there is a limitation there. Could be its getting infinite mpg in gear and coasting while "only" getting 150mpg in neutral. However, and this is the reason I've experimented, I can coast much further in neutral than in gear. The difference isn't enough to warrant such a practice in the XC90 in question, but the difference in HUGE in my G35X. It does not like to coast much at all while in gear.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '98 Alfa 156 2.0TS; '08 Maser QP; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '11 Mini Cooper S
I'm not sure why there isn't more engine braking since it is in gear, albeit a very tall gear.
Automatic 2.5GTs include paddle shifting, a feature that has become the rage of manufacturers trying to play the “sporty” card. While we appreciate having the choice to determine gear changes, the system’s slow-motion shifts and lack of a rev-matching downshift feature relegate it to marketing mumbo-jumbo. The bottom line is that the automatic shifts firmly enough. If you want more real-world control, opt for the 5-speed manual. (emphasis added)
The above could have been written about any number of today's vehicles. Well except for the fact that many aren't even offered with a manual tranny
-Frank
Experience tells us that the six speed manual is the obvious transmission choice.......(in the ZF-engineered PDK unit) the automatic operation of the clutch can be a little overaggressive as you tip in the power at low speeds, causing some unnecessary driveline shunt in stop-and-go traffic.
So if I want I can spend thousands of dollars extra to buy a super-advanced dual-clutch automatic with which I can't modulate the clutch takeup, resulting in engagements at low speeds that make me look like I just learned to drive.
Interesting note in C&D's review this month of the Murcielago LP640:
"Top Gear MPH, 30-50 (Done in 4th gear because the e-gear transmission would not accept 6th gear at 30 mph).
So the supposedly better and much more expensive single-clutch automated manual prohibits the driver from doing a simple thing that any driver in the last 100 years with a dogleg stick would have been able to do any time he/she wished. Not to mention the e-gear "makes some troubling clunks and groans" while driving.
And that one is a $440K car! I am sure if I were dropping half a mil I wouldn't settle for crap like that....
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
-Frank
The new dual-clutch boxes are so much better people will soon forget the v1.0 of those.
I can get a new clutch, throw out bearing, flywheel done is an afternoon for less than $800.
The min an automatic transmission will set you back is 1,500 with 2,200 being average !!!! It will take one to several days also !!
I had the tranny replaced on one of our cars a couple of years back and it was more like $3,000, and that was for a domestic, the tranny for our neighbor's Odyssey was a tad over $5,000. Ish!
Best regards,
Shipo
The 4Runner, which is manual, of course, is a whopping $200 for a clutch kit and about 2 hours labor to install.(drop, swap, reinstall, adjust) If the actual gears and insides are toast, a new transmission is $1200(not remanufactured but brand new)
Note - the first transmission lasted 19 years and 320K miles of abuse from the first two owners. Have 360K on it and runs great.
I guarantee that in 360K miles, I'd have had to replace the transmission on a Camry twice. That's $7000+$1000(cost of the automatic initially) versus $1200, clutches aside(figure 5, so another $2000?) $3200 vs $8000.
less resources to produce a Good Ole Manual Transmission, less resources as it's used, all good and very fitting in the trickle-up-poverty USA.
(compared to any kind of automagic transmission, eh?)
In any case, if the thing still is safe and runs, the real metric is what will be the NEW monthly payment for whatever NEW you get!!?? So is $400.00 per mo reasonable?. To break it down, here are the "monthly costs amortized over a year: $ 800/12=67 mo , $3,500/as= 291 mo.
So even in the BEST of times, an auto purchase has been a serious matter. It is probably even MORE serious, given current economic conditions.
As reference, a recent GOOD yearly sales was 16.5 M units. The latest estimate is app 10 M. This is a SERIOUS decline. Even a 600-800 dollar repair (for a clutch kit) is now an issue. $3,500 can seem to be an economic mt everest !!
True, but even then we're talking $4500 plus another $2000 or so in lost resale value(who would possibly buy an automatic with 100K+ on the transmission and NOT deduct accordingly?)
Manuals save a lot of money. Mine, btw, is about 20 minutes to unbolt as well. Drain, unbolt, and fix. Almost any mechanic can swap a clutch as well in a coupe of hours. If it's just the clutch, we're talking about $450-$500, typically, which as has been stated above, is usually worth dumping into the vehicle to keep it running another 50K+ miles.
My contention all along is that 90+ percent of the buying public sees the manual transmission as less desirable. If that same number holds in the future then the ones most effected by what we will have produced will be manual drivers. While hybrids don't have to me some form of automatic in real life they tend to be. And EVs don't need a third pedal to change from low to high range.
If however we don't care about getting off of foreign oil then the ICE will continue on as it has for all these years. The 90+ percent will not likely change.
Did some research on-line and people told me to rebuild the slave cylinder. Not even replace it, just rebuild.
Got a rebuild kit and fixed the problem for $10.44, tax included.
To be fair I also used about $0.50 worth of brake fluid.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
I had no idea such a thing was possible, having rebuilt MG & Datsun slave cylinders for $5.00 and an hour of time back up until about '88, as has been described.
It seems that many things that used to be (and still are, with the right cars) simple are no longer so.
It cost me many hundred of dollars to do the "simple" slave cylinder rebuild and, while the transmission was out of the car, it made sense to replace the still perfectly-serviceable clutch bits. That said, it was about half the price of an automatic rebuild/replacement.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
ALl 4 cyls, but most important, all stick shifts!
SO they may be rare, but they are still out there.
Oh, and even with the 4, they did 0-60 in 7.6 (accord) and 8.0 for the other 2. And averaged 25 mpg for the test (hard miles there).
All this in what I consider to be overly large "full size" cars!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Just teasing, I know you have to keep hope alive.
Pretty impressive balance of power and efficiency from all 3 of those sedans.
Hopefully that article plus the one from Consumer Reports a few months back get people to start asking for manuals again.
That's from a review of the latest hybrid Lexus, which needless to say has no manual transmission option. :lemon:
http://www.autoweek.com/article/20090526/CARREVIEWS/905269997
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Isn't the Scion tC basically an Avensis coupe?
If so then they basically put a Camry Hybrid powertrain in a Scion tC with 4 doors.
I am not talking what we would like to see or hope they will do but what we expect they will do. I expect to see hybrids replace almost every model of car Honda and Toyota make and none of those cars will come with a manual. That is just my opinion however because it is the easiest way for them to do it and do it quickly.
Now some could be right and introducing a fleet of small diesels could save the manual from extinction in the US. The only problem I have with that idea is it will take more work than what I just described and with less than 10 percent of the buying public showing interest in manuals in the first place who will the manufacturers cater to? If you are a bean counter what direction would you recommend to Toyota?
Now look at the direction Toyota has been moving in anyway and give your honest opinion on the future of manuals.
I think all the German manufacturers will go diesel instead of hybrid, leaving open the hope for more manual availability. But then, Mercedes has as good as killed the manual in its lineup, so they may be beyond redemption. BMW and Porsche/Audi will I think keep the manual very much alive, especially for sport models.
It's unclear what the Americans will do if any are left standing, but it's clear they don't like manuals, and neither does Hyundai, the next emerging carmaker to give us quasi-luxury-class automobiles.
But as long as ALL of these companies keep sport models in their non-premium lineups, the manual won't die. WRXs and Mustangs sell more than 50% in manual shift, don't they? As do GTIs and Miatas.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Best regards,
Shipo