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The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Fiat never made a car that wasn't fun to drive IMO.
  • srs_49srs_49 Member Posts: 1,394
    That was my experience with the 128 - lots of fun and easy to throw around. And a lot more fun than some of the stuff Detroit was offering around that same time like the Pinto, Maverick, and Vega, which was why I chose the 128 over those models.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Oh I don't know about that; the Fiat Uno Diesel I rented in Europe back in the mid 1980s (a car which sported all of 36 horsepower) would never-ever qualify as "fun to drive" in my book. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I've driven the Uno 1.6R model from Brazil, and it was a hoot. Just gotta get the right engine. They're ultra-light and that really helps.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Certainly a better engine would have helped, so too would have some tires wider than those on my mountain bike. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    They needed a small tire so the spare would fit in the engine bay! :D

    Actually that's why such a tiny car had good passenger and cargo room.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    We didn't say FAST and we didn't say SAFE--we said "fun" :P
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Speaking strictly for myself, the Uno wasn't fun or fast or safe for that matter, it was just (relatively) inexpensive to operate all over Europe. :P
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    edited November 2011
    The Uno was a light car - probably had a similar hp:wt ratio as my heavier 1991 Jetta 50hp diesel. Running them against each other could have made for the world's most boring road race.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I remember the "huge" VW Boras (which if memory serves was the European Jetta equivilant of the era) blowing by me in the Uno without breaking a sweat. As I recall, 110 to 120 kph was about all I could flog from the Uno on flat ground; even then it took quite a number of kilometers to get up to that speed.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Well think of it as perfect for a city with narrow streets and $6 a gallon fuel. I never drove one, only the little Peugeot turbo diesel--was that a 206? Whatever it was, it was an impressive little car.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    I'd like to enter a 55hp fintail diesel, a 220D automatic, and a 1981 Volvo diesel in your race :shades:
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    edited November 2011
    From the sublime to the ridiculous. :P
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Member Posts: 4,600
    FWIW the '81 Volvo sourced its diesel from VW.
  • plektoplekto Member Posts: 3,738
    The slowest car I ever ran across was a Mercedes 180D. 40HP. 0-60 was rated at about 35 seconds. Realistically, though, 45-50 seconds was more like it.

    It did get a combined rating of about 37mpg. Slow as dirt but a great commuter if you don't mind making everyone behind you want to kill you. Kind of like how Prius drivers do when they're trying to play "video game" with the thing.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Perfect 1st car for a teenager.

    Should be mandatory - under 20 can only drive older diesels. They'd learn to plan ahead.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    Planning ahead; if I hit the gas right now, I'll miss that car about to blow through the red-light tomorrow. :)
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    And preferably made entirely of rubber. :P
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Hey, it's important for kids to learn about delayed gratification. :shades:
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    My dream for a 16 year old's car is one wrapped in swimming pool noodles.
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    Top speed was also not much more than 60. What a car.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    When I bought my 2009 Mazda3 5-Speed, one of the things in the back of my mind was that this would be the car in which I ended up teaching both of my teenagers how to drive a manual transmission. One down and one to go (we're probably going to start this weekend with our second).

    Other than a little clutch burning, my fifteen, and then sixteen year old son didn't do any damage to the car; once he turned seventeen it was a different story. First he drove my car over to a friend's house where he parked at the top of their driveway (have I mentioned it's hilly here in southern New Hampshire?). He put the car in neutral, set the parking brake, and headed inside; a half of an hour later he went out to the car to fetch something and then back into their house.

    Ten minutes later as they were eating dinner they all saw my car roll down the driveway, across their neighbor's lawn, across the street, and down the lawn of the neighbor over there. My car finally came to a halt as it attempted to crest a wall made up of largish granite rocks a foot to a foot in a half in diameter. The front wheels were both off the ground, the lower center section of the bumper cover, the A/C condenser, the radiator, and the oil filter mount all yielded to the granite before the car managed to prop itself up on the top rock with the cast-aluminum oil pan serving as the prop-point.

    Not two days after getting my car back from being repaired he was sitting at a stop light when a Ford F-150 decided leave a rather sizable imprint on the rear bumper. :sick:

    I'm thinking by the time my second teenager is done cutting her teeth in the driving department, my Mazda3 will probably be done as well. :P
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,680
    I always envisioned my '69 C20 as the vehicle on which my children will initially learn to drive a manual, but it is going to be 50 years old when my son is "of age." Your experience with the Mazda is making me begin to reconsider that plan. :surprise:
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    The thing about the Mazda is that it is pretty tightly strung; if you can drive it smoothly, you can pretty much drive anything with three pedals well. My son just recently bought himself a 1998 Audi A4 Quattro 5-Speed, and he cannot believe how easy it is to drive when compared to the Mazda.
  • xwesxxwesx Member Posts: 17,680
    That was my rationale behind wanting to use the C20. If they can drive that manual well, they can drive anything. I'm actually planning to start them out with driving on my '69 Econoline, which is a beast to drive even if it is an automatic, because driving that vehicle is exponentially more difficult than any vehicle built today.

    With that experience under their belt, not only will they appreciate the refinement of any other vehicle (including my C20), but they'll be better drivers for it as well.

    Under no circumstances will they be taking either of those vehicles solo, though. :D
    2018 Subaru Crosstrek, 2014 Audi Q7 TDI, 2013 Subaru Forester, 2013 Ford F250 Lariat D, 1976 Ford F250, 1969 Chevrolet C20, 1969 Ford Econoline 100
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    Yep - hits close to home. The first teenager was no problem. But the baby, now 18, has wrecked 2 cars while away at college this year, one a Volvo that belonged to a friend and last month, her mom's Subaru Forester. Its still in a body shop 500 miles away with about 5K damage. She's surprised that I'd consider taking the car away...I think our little girl is majoring in Engineering with a minor in Demolition Derby. I do wish I'd have kept that 50hp VW diesel for her.
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    If both accidents were her fault, you'd best take it away. Some people just aren't good at certain things.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    At least make her take a defensive driving program, at a real driving school not driver's ed.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    She's good at wrecking cars! Yes - both her fault, speeding & tailgating. Drives me crazy!
  • Mr_ShiftrightMr_Shiftright Member Posts: 64,481
    Not good. Young 'uns are in harm's way from cars at that age.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    edited November 2011
    Collision avoidance - driver safety training is on the schedule for the winter break. In MD, its almost impossible to lose your driver's license, but she's in TN - and I'm hoping the judge there suspends it when she has a court date next month.

    When you send your little girl off to college far from home, you tend not to think that she'd become so familiar with traffic court...

    Total vehicle property damage alone (5 cars) for 2 semesters is at about $23-24K as far as we know.

    IMO, she needs to learn how to take the bus.
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    edited November 2011
    It boggles the mind that someone so academically brilliant at advanced Physics, math, and engineering classes can fail to understand that she cannot drive 60mph so closely behind the bumper of the car ahead of her.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,441
    I'll send my son down to straighten out her driving habits, if she can make him do his schoolwork.... ;)

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  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    LOL - might be a good deal for them to trade tutoring in their fields of expertise.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    My sister is bright but a bit dingy. We lost count as I was growing up, but the accepted number is 13 wrecks.

    That was just while she was in high school. Been another 13 over the last 35 years, at least.

    Totaled a few, but never got hurt or hurt anyone.

    She hit the neighbor's truck twice before he figured out that he best not park across from our driveway. His third passenger door didn't match and he didn't bother to paint that one.

    It was just a couple of years ago I visited her house, and rented a minivan at Dulles instead of having her pick me up. So I get to her house and she specifically directs me to the out of the way spot where she wanted me to park.

    A couple of hours later she roars out of her driveway, in reverse as usual, and smashes the front end to the tune of $4,000 or so.

    I got more. :sick:

    Take the keys. :D
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    edited November 2011
    Wow - how does your sister afford insurance? Here I was hoping our daughter might learn from her mistakes. But I've always worried about her odd perception of accidents since she was a few years old. In my mind, she broke things by carelessness. She could never understand that it was "her fault" and viewed accidents as some sort of divine intervention "stuff happens".

    Your sister and my daughter must be the intended buyers for these new accident avoidance systems that use radar and activate the braking system before the driver can crash into the car ahead of them. They can't get these things into lower priced cars soon enough.

    I'm not in that high technology car features market. I've always tried to keep things simple & basic. Even today, if they were not standard equipment, I would not pay extra for power windows or even a heater. I was thrilled to find a 2011 suzuki sx-4 that didn't have cruise control standard. But your sister and my daughter might be perfect for some of that new crash avoidance technology.

    I worry constantly that she will hurt herself and others. The body shops in Knoxville are still busy with the incredibly damaging hail storm they got in May, so they are backed up. I'm not rushing the body shop.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    Yeah, get all that stuff and cram as many airbags in there as you can.

    Just last week my sister called to let me know her ABS brakes work (her light has been going on and off randomly). She was following too close (spacing out no doubt or fumbling for something) and left skid marks yet managed not to ram the cars stopped on the 4 lane she was cruising on back in VA.

    I don't know how she gets insurance. Guess that stuff rolls off one's record every few years.
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    "Even today, if they were not standard equipment, I would not pay extra for power windows or even a heater."

    Clearly you don't live too far north; when the temperatures around here start dipping down to or below zero, a car can be a very uncomfortable place to be even though you’re bundled up and shielded from the wind.

    Of course I'm one of those that wants their cars with three pedals under the dash and almost all of the other goodies on the order sheet checked off. I can skip auto-cruise control, nav, collision avoidance, and auto headlights, but gimme everything else. :)
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    Northern VA would have to be about the worst place for your sister's driving. You have to be on top of your game to drive in that traffic every day.

    I started car-pooling recently with a very conservative driving young woman in my office. While stopped at a light, she was hit from behind by a woman in a rental car - who explained to us that she was in a rental because her car was in the shop after she drove into someone else :surprise:

    Its a good idea to keep a spare car today!
  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    edited November 2011
    Actually, I grew up in MA and now live in MD. I never liked the feeling of heat in a car. I remember when I started looking for my first car 40 years ago, seeing R & H in the ads for radio and heater. So at one time, it must have been possible to buy a car without a heater, although I never saw one without it in New England. I suppose its useful for defrosting and defogging, but with my low reptilian body temperature, I simply don't need it for comfort. If I didn't live with a sweet wifey - who wants heat, I'd have the house at 50.

    Totally agree about the 3 pedals. And that low body temp needs the A/C!
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    Come to think of it, my sister may qualify for this group. Not by choice you understand. :shades:
  • fintailfintail Member Posts: 58,411
    The scariest things are that these two ladies probably passed their license tests with flying colors on the first try.

    Maybe manuals should be mandatory, might weed out some of the incompetents.
  • steverstever Guest Posts: 52,454
    edited November 2011
    Oops, was thinking I was in Chronic Car Buyers when I posted that about her belonging to "the group". She's certainly gone through a lot of cars.

    My sister isn't quite as frugal as me, but usually she drives manuals traveling in England since the rent is usually cheaper. And she owned a few MTs here. Can't say she's very coordinated though. At least she quit smoking long ago, and she no longer taps the accelerator pedal in time with the music.
  • kyfdxkyfdx Moderator Posts: 265,441
    Knoxville? I just assumed since she was so smart, that she went to Vanderbilt...

    No way that I'm sending him down there to help out one of those Volunteers! ;)

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  • morin2morin2 Member Posts: 399
    Careful there - aren't Wildcats fans automatically disqualified from becoming hosts at Edmunds and anywhere else? Yeah, Vandy was in the running and they offered some academic scholarship $, but her silly parents let her choose her school. I wish she was as serious a driver as she is a student. Go Vols!
  • shiposhipo Member Posts: 9,148
    I too have a low body temperature and (prior to wife and kinds) kept the house at ~50 in the winter time; I mean hey, it's 42 degrees this morning and I' still in shirt-sleeves (rolled up no less). The thing is, I draw the line on the whole heat in the car thing when the inside glass has a layer of frost and/or the leather seats are so hard I'm afraid they'll crack when I sit on them.

    Long story short, I don't use the heat all too often here in New Hampshire, and I use the A/C maybe a couple of times per year (except for defogging duty on hot rainy summer days) but I'd never willingly own a car without them.
  • andys120andys120 Member Posts: 23,669
    That tells us plenty about the future of the M/T if every maker of sporty vehicles in Europe is dropping them.

    2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93

  • ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    One way to get them to take the risks seriously is to teach them to ride a motorcycle. Without the metal surrounding them for protection they quickly learn to drive more safely.

    Then again, they could get hurt while learning. :sick:
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    It boggles the mind that someone so academically brilliant at advanced Physics, math, and engineering classes can fail to understand that she cannot drive 60mph so closely behind the bumper of the car ahead of her.

    It's the difference between theoretical physics (which is all she studied) and real world physics where a pound of bricks DOES hurt more than a pound of feathers!!
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