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-Frank
Insisting on up shifting too soon, and preferring to lug along instead of downshifting, is one of my biggest peeves with an AT. Our Odyssey does this all the time. We routinely drive through a speed trap town (25) on a gradual uphill road, and the dumb van tries to do it in 4th or 5th it seems.
Now, there is some sort of OD off button, but I don't really want to look it into 3rd (not much of an improvement), and no way I am rowing the sifter around trying to find 2nd.
So, lug and jerk, or floor it and slam on the brakes. As opposed to my Accord, where I just leave it in 3rd (or 2nd occasionally).
At least with the manumatic, I could put it in manually and tap a couple of times to keep it in the gear I want it in. Also helps avoid riding the brakes coming back down the hill.
So not perfect, but better!
Habitat, you at least have the option in the MDX. To me, it is mostly a gimmic, but still useful occasionally.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Maybe the new MDX, not our 2005.
But it wouldn't matter, the cases you describe are fair claims, but go more to highlight why I despise the typical automatic period, and having a manumatic would only add a dash of sweetener to a big mug of sour milk. The exceptions might be those very well designed automatic transmissions with reasonably quick gear changes and the (slight) added control of paddle shifters. In the SUV world, the Cayenne S Tiptronic qualifies, but nothing, unfortunately, by Honda or Acura comes close, IMO.
Even AMG, with claims of "worlds fastest shifting automatic" left me cold when I tried to do it myself in the C32 and the SLK55 when I test drove those. Tap that shifter on a downshift, take a sip of your Starbucks, and maybe then your can punch the gas in the lower gear. Arrgh. You would think engineers capable of putting 738 ft-lbs of torque in a luxury sedan (S65) would be able to design a decent 6-speed manual for use on their so-called sports car. But no, and even the owner of the dealership in my hometown drives a Porsche Cayman S with a real 6-speed manual.
Everyone that I know who has a "manumatic" shiftable slushbox in their BMW, Audi, Mercedes, Acura, etc. pretty much leaves it in drive after the first month of "playing" wears off. They realize that, with the infrequent exceptions you described, it adds absolutely nothing to the real driving experience, performance or control.
My best friend just bought an '04 BMW 330i and I was a little surprised that it's manual feature was next to useless, too. The only useful feature is by tapping the shifter to the left and into the manual gate. It reverts from regular Drive to Sport and holds each gear longer and shifts with a little jolt. But using the +/- feature is pointless. It is downright annoying in situations where you're in 5th and have to tap it twice in the same direction to get down to 3rd if you need a quick burst of speed.
In all the reviews I've seen for the new Accord, every tester complains that Honda didn't include a manual function on the automatic. They do, however, have the good sense to still offer the Accord with a traditional manual.
I guess I'm one of a small minority then. I downshift my Steptronic thru several gears to generate engine braking as I descend the rather steep hill I happen to live on.
When I'm on a tight twisty road I'll often go "manual" and
zing down the road as you might in a real stick.
While I'd have to agree with the previous poster that many manumatics do not provide a good feel I think BMW's Steptronic is an exception. It provides a nice crisp feel to the shifts and the lever is even shaped like a manual shifter. My only beef is that it doesn't lock out first which should be impossible to engage once the car is rolling.
The previous poster is mistaken in stating that there's no advantage over an ordinary console mounted A/T, it's much easier and faster to snick thru the +/- than to move a klutzy "console shift" from D to 2 or L.
2001 BMW 330ci/E46, 2008 BMW 335i conv/E93
2007 Nissan Versa: Clutch Work Is Hard Work
Well, the "previous poster" has driven both, and sees no real advantage to MOST manumatics. I agree that it is easier, however I was more interested in performance, and for me, the advantages were not significant.
I'm almost positive he has a 6-speed Versa..
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How 'bout a Versa SE, addressing those two issues?
i meant from a cost perspective, if the MTs were cheaper, why would you want to offer up more money for it when traditionally, cars with the MT retail for less?
lemme be clear, i see those advantages, and would consider paying more yes. but my point was (?) that it wasn't justifyable for a manufacturer to charge more for something that has traditionally cost less.
now another poster pointed out the development costs and how that is spread out over a smaller number of vehicles. OK, uncle. i was thinking the MT technology was tried, true, well understood, more robust, easy to develop, manufacture, field, maintain, yada yada.
another poster points out not all MTs are created equal and some have problems. eww. didn't think of that. why are they going and messing with the KISS principle for marginal benefits?
i admit, the post I made a while back was dumb.
and BTW, I agree with you, the AT has negative value to me. does that mean I'm willing to pay more for it? geesh, i don't know, does it slice dice, puree and jullienne?
I think he's preoccupied with the World Series. :shades: He always seems to have a stick of one sort or another in his hands though, lol.
Ask Dub Schwartz!
Americans expect their machines to do their work for them. Oh no some would say but one of the most popular options on our cars is the Automatic transmission. Then there is the power windows, too much trouble to roll down your own. And who doesn't have cruise control? The car will keep a steady speed for you. My truck even has a setting on the volume control so it will automatically increase the volume on the cd ot radio to compensate for increased road noise when I start driving faster.
Will there always be some that want to do it themselves? I am sure there will be but there are fewer of them and every year we can expect fewer still.
Habitat's Maxima replacement no longer offers a manual. He may hate the idea but it happened anyway, Nissan simply didn't care. The Maxima is no longer in the manual game.
If the manual doesn't survive there will be two forces attacking it. The green party who objects to the idea that the manufacturer can't program the human linkage in the manual to shift at the proper point to get the best EPA rating. And the second point? Americans do not want to have to learn how to use a machine they expect it to be easy to use.
I am sure many of the manual drivers in this forum are good drivers and may even treat their transmissions with respect and consideration. But most drivers I see can't get the best use out of a manual no matter how much we wish they could. The slip the clutch, they rest their foot on the clutch pedal. They hold the gear too long for normal commuter driving. And when their lack of skill cause clutch failure they blame it on the transmission.
Not wanting to take the time to learn and the perception that driving is a task that has to be performed so you can get to a task you want to do is the biggest reason more than 90 percent of the American consumers drive Automatics. We love pushing a button to open our doors. we love setting a timer to make our coffee for us every morning so we don't have to do it ourselves. we love sitting in the easy chair and surfing with the remote.
There are very few modes of transportation that have held onto tradition as much as some enthusiasts have the dog leg. We lament the idea that in the highest forms of Auto racing the dog leg is dead. we make excuses and blame racing politics and bite our upper lip as we realize that NASCAR is still on our side even if CART, ALMS, F-1 and WRC are not. About the only spiritual relatives we have in transportation is Sail boats in PHRF. Tradition over technology or feel over performance are things manual drivers have in common with sailors.
If the new generation doesn't give up their computerized love affair with technology it is hard to see how manuals will hold on passed this current crop of motor enthusiasts. They sure aren't gaining ground. As far as Europe goes, Asians and Americans act as if Europe is on another planet.
The real question is where will the next generation of American manual drivers come from?
You are nothing if not consistent in your persistence that we stand on the brink of the death of the manual. I'm not sure you need to change clothes for Halloween, since my mental picture of you is of the Grim Reaper.
Intertwined in your prosecutory arguments against the manual are many good points. However, I still find the need to put on a defense rebuttal of some.
Still even Habitat took a look at a manual SUV and opted for an Automatic. So it isn't pure pleasure that drives us. It is preferences.
Actually, we didn't seriously look at any manual SUV's at the time of purchasing our MDX, since there were no decent sized 7 passenger options that I was aware of. And even since, we have only been teased by the prospect of a 5 passenger Cayenne 6-speed, but at this time are not prepared to forego 2 seats and significant cargo space just to have an SuV with a manual transmission.
However, look at what put us in an MDX in January, 2005. In our case, 75%+ of that decision was based upon the fact that we were staying with the same brand and dealer that sold us our TL 6-speed in May 2004. Had Acura not redesigned the TL, offered a 6-speed manual, sport suspensioned version, we very likely would have ended up with a BMW 330i and Honda Pilot in our garage. I never would have bought the previous generation, uninspired, slushbox only TL. And had we not bought the TL, I think the chances we would have then bought the MDX over a loaded Pilot would have been 25% at best. So, although I am only one anecdotal example, the TL 6-speed not only got our sedan sale, but had a significant "halo" effect in our subsequent selection of the MDX.
Habitat's Maxima replacement no longer offers a manual. He may hate the idea but it happened anyway, Nissan simply didn't care.
And, as I've pointed out before, look what's happened to the Maxima and Nissan in the meantime. Maxima sales have dropped to dismal levels. It is a vague shadow of the 4th generation "Four Door Sports Car" that was the 1995 Motor Trend Car of the Year and heralded as the only Japanese sport sedan alternative to the 3/5 series. Just this week, the Wall Street Journal had a lengthy article on how Nissan is now refocusing upon low budget cars over luxury cars, due in part to its fall from grace relative to middle and upper middle income American consumers - the Maxima being cited as a prime example.
Once again, maybe we don't differ that much in how we see the current state of affairs, but rather what that means for the future. You keep referring to this "we", as in "we" love the convenience of power windows, "we" love being couch potatoes pushing a remote control, "we" love McDonald's drive thru window, etc. You appear to firmly believe that the automatic transmssion is the obvious extension of that trend.
However, I still see a lot of people out there that enjoy the driving experience of a manual transmssion - and don't define "sports" as watching ESPN while eating potato chips. Just look at the at the convertible. It nearly became extinct a couple of decades ago. But just as that was about to happen, the "fun" of open air driving was rediscovered and now we again have many choices. They are all more expensive than their coupe counterparts, mess up your hair and have no "convenience" benefit whatsoever. Not everyone is in the "we" demographic you describe. And woe are those manufacturers, like Nissan with the Maxima, that forget to consider consumer preferences in their business decisions. They now scramble to sell a few thousand overweight 350Z roadsters at invoice while they lost hundreds of thousands of Maxima sales. Dumb is as dumb does at Nissan.
The real question is where will the next generation of American manual drivers come from?
I'm doing my part. And not just my two daughters. Over the course of this past year, I probably carted 20+ different 9 and 12 year old girls and a couple of boys back and forth from soccer and basketball games in my 911. And every one that sat in the front passenger seat got to try shifting gears. Obviously at low, safe speeds, but left handed, no less. The smiles were wide enough to practically crack their faces.
Maybe you would be less of a Grim Reaper if you had a 9 year old girl look up at you and say "thanks Mr. Boaz, that was so much fun - can I get a ride next week?"
He also used to like to go up to parked cars and peer in to announce if it was a stick (petrified my wife, I thought it was wonderful).
I remember him doing that at a local car show once (about the same age). Went up to some guys Chevelle, peered in (no touch!) and announced "it's a stick" Got quite a funny look out of the owner, guess he wasn't expecting that from a little kid.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
When I say we I am only referring to American preferences. And only the majority. If more than 90 percent are now driving automatics what will the used car market be? Most kids end up with used cars and manual drivers don't seem to trade as often. So if a kid has a choice between a low mileage used Civic with a automatic or a high mileage older one with a manual you and I both know what they will choose. That is what happened with the four girls I instructed. One got a F-150 sport 4x4 and I don't see many manuals in full sized trucks. But the other three got a Civic, automatic, Accord automatic, and a CR-V.
That is what I am talking about. Americans want what is easy to get and easy to use. And by in large they don't want to spend the extra time learning how to use a tool like a car. You my friend are in a minority by owning a sports car and a manual. And your kids will have to make the same choice as more than 90 percent of every other kid does. Start driving as soon as possible or wait for a manual. Do you see that changing anytime soon?
Let me apologize up front for my skepticism when it comes to the American consumer. But I have dealt with the public in the private sector and I can promise you the customer never wanted a product that required much of a learning curve. I have been in the public sector and the customers always wanted their services non interactive. A few years ago I was in Japan and I am not sure they aren't worse than Americans. Every electronic device known to man seems to be in the possession of Japanese teenagers. They don't even seem to care to open the pages of a book anymore. They read what they want on a screen. If you see a return to wanting to do things for themselves in the next generation of consumers you are dealing with a whole different group of people than I am. I see a generation of Kids that can and do text message while driving and rather than listen for the proper RPM noise of the engine to shift they are driving plugged into their Ipods.
Speed Shifting
If the IS-F's engine seems complicated, get a load of its one transmission offering. This eight-speed automatic is adapted from the tranny in the LS luxo barge.
Leave the shifter in fully automatic mode and you can never quite shake the impression that there are three too many gears in the box. It seems to always be lounging around in 7th on the highway and dithering among its many gears around town. Downshifts are slow to come. When it finally finds a nice low gear, the engine is spinning wildly, the engine note has turned angry and you've got more power than you asked for, plus it arrives later than you wanted it. Use the automatic mode only for traffic jams.
It's better to leave the transmission in manual mode and use the steering-column-mounted shift paddles to choose from the myriad gears. In all but 1st gear, this transmission uses a lock-up clutch to connect the engine and transmission, something like a conventional manual powertrain. When you combine the crisp feeling of engine response that results with tremendously quick upshifts and downshifts (with automatic throttle blips), the complex transmission becomes one of the most entertaining sequential-shift automatics.
The RS4 is offered only with a six-speed manual. Turns out, for a dedicated high-performance car, that old gearlever-and-clutch-pedal thing is still the way to go.
Chalk one up for the old guys over the techno geeks.
Best Regards,
Shipo
www.slate.com
Are manual transmissions better for the environment?
By Brendan I. Koerner
Posted Tuesday, Oct. 30, 2007, at 7:36 AM ET
Illustration by Robert Neubecker. Click image to expand.
I've read that cars with manual transmissions get 8 percent better gas mileage than their automatic counterparts. I'm certainly no gearhead, but doesn't that mean that manuals are a lot better for the planet? Can I dramatically reduce my carbon footprint (as well as save some cash at the pump) by switching to a stick shift?
Perhaps, though you'll need to be fairly proficient at shifting gears in order to realize noticeable savings. According to the Environmental Protection Agency's fuel economy ratings, cars with manual transmissions typically beat their automatic peers by a mile or two per gallon. This is largely because manuals give you more control over an engine's exertions. Despite recent advances in slushbox design, humans are still better than automated systems at recognizing precisely when to shift gears. And smart shifting enables you to limit an engine's rotations per minute, which translates into less fuel consumption.
But getting the most out of manual requires a stick-shift savvy that's often lacking in American drivers raised on automatics. If you're lazy about shifting and allow your RPMs to soar unnoticed, then you might actually guzzle more gas than if your car were equipped with a well-engineered slushbox. The federal fuel-economy ratings acknowledge as much, by including an important caveat: "Your vehicle's fuel economy will almost certainly vary from EPA's estimate. It varies significantly based on where you drive, how you drive, and other factors." So, unless you're prepared to be a vigilant, skilled motorist, you're probably not going to save much, if any, fuel by adopting a stick shift.
Click Here!
If you're up for the challenge, though, you can likely beat the EPA's estimates and achieve fuel savings of up to 15 percent. Aside from paying constant attention to RPMs and trying to reach high gears quickly, you should also try shifting into neutral and coasting when safe. And it'll obviously help your cause to follow the basic tenets of hypermiling, which also apply to automatics: Keep your tires properly inflated, avoid stop-and-start traffic, and remove unnecessary weight from your trunk and back seat.
But even if you go stick and drive like a pro, how much will it affect your overall carbon footprint? Let's be optimistic and assume you shave 15 percent off of your annual gas consumption. The Department of Energy estimates that the average American driver uses 500 gallons of gas per year, so we're talking about a reduction of 75 gallons. Since a gallon of gas emits 19.564 pounds of carbon dioxide—yes, folks, really—you'd be reducing your annual CO2 output by approximately two-thirds of a metric ton. For comparison's sake, if the average American cut out flying for a year, he or she would reduce their carbon dioxide emissions by a little under half a metric ton.
This calculation, however, doesn't include some less obvious benefits of manual transmissions. The brake pads on stick-shift cars, for example, tend to wear out less rapidly than those on automatics. And manual transmissions are relatively cheap to fix and replace, so you can wait longer to buy a new vehicle. Manufacturing auto parts is energy-intensive, so anything that can be done to curb their production has to be a plus.
But the Lantern doubts there will ever be a stick-shift revival in the United States, no matter how much gas prices and temperatures soar. Gearheads will always adore manuals, but they're in the minority—most Americans prefer the ease of an automatic, especially on gridlocked freeways. Fewer than 9 percent of new cars in the United States are manuals, and that figure is set to drop to 6 percent by 2012. And rare is the driving school that teaches teenage newbies how to work a clutch.
Is there an environmental quandary that's been keeping you up at night? Send it to ask.the.lantern@gmail.com, and check this space every Tuesday.
ATs a few years back, at least some, had gotten pretty good (for what they are). BMW in particular had a nice unit. Quick up and down shifts, seemed to do a good job being in (or getting to ) the right gear, smooth and responsive, etc. basically what you wanted from a tranny (assuming you didn't want a clutch!), and it seemed to work with you.
Well, now with the extra (gimmicky IMO) gears and computer logic, it seems like they are fighting the driver more than trying to work with them (Lexus and Toyota prime offenders).
That, and fighting to keep in too high of a gear really bugs me (and no, I won't raise the whole manumatic idea again!)
maybe this will help the manual make a comeback, at least among the Ludites (and of course gearheads!)
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Yup that was the ZF Unit that is still used in many BMWs, Jags, Aston Martins and Land Rovers.
Go read any review on the XK and a common thread will be praise for the transmission. Many people seem to think that the relatively simple six speed ZF in that car is the best automatic on the market. Various versions of it are used in many different vehicles.
I don't know if I'd use the word "correctly" there, what I think you really mean is that they would have to drive it with efficiency as the only goal. Not something I ever did with a manual, does anyone? Anyone actually shift based on the little indicator lights some of them have? When doing light acceleration or cruising at lower speeds, I definitely would rum my manual at higher rpms than my auto runs at.
The manual is theoretically more efficient, but reality is there is little difference. I am getting the same mileage for the same type of driving after switching, even though the new car with automatic weighs about 10% more and has about 20% more HP.
The prediction of 6% manuals in just a few years indicates that the decline has not yet stabilized. If it falls to 6% for the entire fleet of new cars, that surely means it will be very near (or at) zero for quite a few models.
Niche car owners have little to fear it seems but the average consumer simply doesn't seem to care and it is what they buy that determines the market far more than the enthusiast. Nissan's dropping the manual in the Maxima is only one example. The idea that the Mini cooper is sold with a goodly number of CVTs has to give the enthusiast pause. After all it should be a prime example of a car designed for the individual. And sports cars are not exempt. More Corvettes are sold with Automatics than with manuals and they continue to sell very well. I believe it was Motor trend or Car and Driver that said the Corvette was the best selling exotic in the world.
The future of the manual doesn't rest in the hands of the enthusiast but rather in the hands of the consumer in general and the corporate bean counters plus the EPA.
If you are not motivated to drive in a way to conserve fuel in a stick, an automatic will be no different. I think it will actually be worse. When driven in anger, I think slushboxes take a bigger hit than a manual.
The manual is theoretically more efficient, but reality is there is little difference. I am getting the same mileage for the same type of driving after switching, even though the new car with automatic weighs about 10% more and has about 20% more HP.
You are comparing a newer vehicle to an older one. Compare the Mazda6 stick to the Mazda6 auto in real world driving. My Accord has averaged in the mid-30s (34.something) for mixed (70% hwy/30% cit) driving, which beats everything I have seen on the "real world mileage" in the Accord Forum.
The prediction of 6% manuals in just a few years indicates that the decline has not yet stabilized. If it falls to 6% for the entire fleet of new cars, that surely means it will be very near (or at) zero for quite a few models.
Very true, it will severely limit my choices for my next vehicle, although by then, we might be using a different method of propulsion (electric power or what not) so it might be a mute point.
Yes, there is a significant sized group of drivers who pride themselves with how far they can stretch a gallon of gas and by how much they can beat the EPA estimate for their model. For these people, a manual is a must.
-Frank
Anything behind the cats (like a cat-back exhaust) is still open and free excepting volume levels, and anything before the TB is still open (ram air, CAI, open element,etc). If you are willing to break the rules, a lot of software is undetectable and will net bigger power advantages (changing engine parameters like flow rate is helpful only if the software can compensate).
I'm one of those people and I do that in my minivan.
They only come in autos, so it wasn't a choice. EPA for 2007 was 19/26, for 08 it's 17/24.
My record for a two-way, lengthy trip is 30.4mpg. For a one way trip I managed 33.9mpg.
Gotta love tall gearing, manual or auto.
-Frank
How so? :confuse:
Best Regards,
Shipo
:-)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Egads, that's quite a gauntlet you've thrown down. Admitting to driving a minivan like an old lady. I give up, you win.
Gotta love tall gearing, manual or auto.
That, however, I cannot agree with. Porsche gears its 911 perfectly, to achieve top speed in 6th gear precisely at 200 rpm below redline, which corresponds to peak engine output. Gears 1-5 are perfectly spaced between there to maximize acceleration. The Corvette gear ratios, by contrast, were decided by Forest Gump's less intelligent brother, in an attempt to fool the EPA. Sixth gear is lugging along at about 1,400 rpm at 60 mph and bears no resemblence to the engine's power curve. The car's top speed can't be achieved in 6th or even 5th, you need to downshift to 4th to have a gear ratio that can actually make it to high enough RPMs to utilize the engine's power.
For all of that tomfoolery, the Corvette is rated at something like 1 mpg more than the 911S on the highway. However, in actual runs between DC and Pittsburgh, I get 1-2 mpg more than a business associate who does the exact same route in a 2005 Corvette. I almost never have to downshift to accelerate and pass quickly, even on a hill. The Corvette, much more so. And the EPA thinks that's efficient? He actually gets about 10-12 mpg around town to my 16+ mpg.
In addition, in a side by side road test, the meager 355hp/295ft-lb 911S accelerated much more smoothly from 0-60 in 4.2 seconds, while the Corvette, with 400hp/400ft-lbs took 4.3 seconds and bounced around like Tina Turner, trying to keep the wheels planted. The 911S transmission gets an A+ rating in terms of making the most use of its 3.8 liter engine output. The Corvette transmission gets a "C-" at best, given that its attached to an engine with nearly twice the displacement, 15% more hopespower and 35% more torque, in a car that weighs a few pounds less.
Keep excessively tall gearing in your wife's minivan and the Corvette, please. I don't want it anywhere near the cars I like.
P.S. I used the 911/Corvette example because I had the information handy. But I don't care for the (too) tall gearing in my TL 6-speed, either. This isn't a sports car issue. It's having the engine running in it's sweet spot for both reasonable performance and fuel economy. Any engine with a 6,500-7,000+ redline is not doing that at 1,500 rpm at 60-70 mph, IMO.
This is true, but the old car has the same EPA city rating and 3 mpg higher highway.
I'm sure you drive much differenty than me, if you are getting 34 mpg and this really includes 30% city driving, which EPA defines as: urban driving, in which a vehicle is started with the engine cold and driven in stop-and-go rush hour traffic).
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/fe_test_schedules.shtml
EPA city schedule is 11 miles with 23 stops and average speed of 20 mph. My normal commute involves 5-7 stops in 9.5 miles and average speed of about 40 mph...so it is between the EPA city and highway schedules. My old manual transmission was rated 24/34 on the sticker (21/31 revised) and I typically got 26-27 mpg on this commute.
BTW, I should have said I am getting about the same mileage...the automatic is getting 25-26 mpg for this commuting route (rating is 24/31 on the sticker and 21/28 revised).
I like the idea of electric cars...full torque at 0 mph is appealing to me :shades: . Electric would typically have no need for a transmission (also appealing to me), though the Tesla does have a 2 speed, I believe (no clutch, though).
Don't worry, the van gets the family around but I still have an NA Miata with a manual for kicks.
Funny thing is on the highway I actually get fewer MPGs than a loaded van!
Perhaps you might try one of these.
link title
Regards,
OW
Why do you say that cruise works better with an auto? If I am in sixth on the highway I see no discernible diff between cruise in a manual or an auto. What am I missing?
Hmmm, apparently the posts that I've read are different than the ones you've read.
"And Cruise control sure works better with a Automatic. At least when you get to some long grades."
Serious? I haven't had a manual equipped car (that also had Cruise Control) since my 1981 Audi 4000 4M that couldn't easily tackle an 8% grade (the maximum allowed on the U.S. Interstate system) in top gear and on CC. What kind of car are you thinking of that needs to be downshifted to maintain speed on a grade?
Best Regards,
Shipo