Mystery car pix

Mr_Shiftright

I read the book and some cars were mentioned.

andys120

Mr_Shiftright said:

I read the book and some cars were mentioned.

Most of the characters are carless lower class "plebs" but a few key characters own cars. Bad guy Marcello has a Fiat Millecento while good guy Stefano has a Fiat 1200 Spider (Pininfarina).

Mr_Shiftright

The book was interesting for a while but it got to be a bit of a chore for me. Parts of Italy were shockingly poor after WW II---very easily 3rd world conditions in some places. So having a car would be a really big deal.

andys120

Mr_Shiftright said:

The book was interesting for a while but it got to be a bit of a chore for me. Parts of Italy were shockingly poor after WW II---very easily 3rd world conditions in some places. So having a car would be a really big deal.

Southern Italy was extremely poor for most of the modern era and I think remote parts of it still are. I think most people have access to some sort of motor vehicle. Happy as Lazzaro, available from Netflix tells of rural Italians who work as sharecroppers in the mountainous center.

ab348

I happened to watch an episode of House Hunters International last night and it was about a rather odd British couple looking for a place in the Calabria region of southern Italy. Their budget was a paltry $50K US yet there were several decent properties for them to consider. While historic and full of charm what was shown of the area did not strike me as a particularly appealing area in terms of amenities.

fintail

I have limited experience in Italy, but I could see things change the further south I went. It's a more diverse place than most seem to know - I stayed in the far north where people spoke German as a first language (old holdout from the Austro-Hungarian empire days).

andys120

berri

62 ? Studebaker Hawk GT. I like its lines for the times back then.

ab348

The Hawk achieved the long hood/short deck look by lengthening the wheelbase ahead of the cowl. The result was a car on a 120" WB, not exactly sporty. Look at the "boot" of the front fender between the wheel opening and the door, about as long as any you'll see.

andys120

berri said:

62 ? Studebaker Hawk GT. I like its lines for the times back then.

Not a bad looking car but a flawed design in that the addition of a formal roofline to the Loewy-inspired styling did nothing to enhance it. My guess is that this was cash-strapped Studebaker's way of "refreshing" the look cheaply. Their timing was good since they were part of the trend for "personal luxury coupes" patterned after the 4-seat Thunderbird but the Hawks didn't sell that well.

berri

I don't disagree andys with your assessment of the low cost development. It is fact and Brooks Stevens was involved, a guy who was fairly proficient at that for Studebaker and I believe American Motors/Jeep. As for the design itself, that's obviously a personal call because at the end of the day car design is art. But I think you could also make the argument that the Hawk GT was perhaps a bit ahead of the domestic design curve in 1962, because several years later many car designs went with more squared off greenhouses, including coupes. Think 64 Thunderbird, 64 Imperial, as well many 65 Ford and Mopar vehicles. Interestingly, GM kind of went the opposite direction with its Coke bottle lines. Of course in 61 GM was using somewhat squarish greenhouses on its 4 doors. Design has always been one of my fascinations with the auto business. Really enjoy your auto picture posts.

andys120

berri

Ford Pinto wagon. The parking lights are throwing me on this one, so I'm not really sure of the model year. Back in those days I thought the Pinto and Vega little wagons were actually kind of cool looking. The mounted surfboard works.

Mr_Shiftright

andys120 said:

berri said:

62 ? Studebaker Hawk GT. I like its lines for the times back then.

Not a bad looking car but a flawed design in that the addition of a formal roofline to the Loewy-inspired styling did nothing to enhance it. My guess is that this was cash-strapped Studebaker's way of "refreshing" the look cheaply. Their timing was good since they were part of the trend for "personal luxury coupes" patterned after the 4-seat Thunderbird but the Hawks didn't sell that well.

They were too expensive, and besides, most people knew by the early 1960s that Studebaker was headed over a cliff. No one wanted to own an orphan.

You could buy an Impala convertible for the same money or less.

stickguy

that must be a real late run Pinto. i too always liked the 2 door wagon on this and the Vega.

fintail

I'll guess the Pinto is a 79, I seem to recall black grilles on the last ones.

tmart

berri said:

I don't disagree andys with your assessment of the low cost development. It is fact and Brooks Stevens was involved, a guy who was fairly proficient at that for Studebaker and I believe American Motors/Jeep. As for the design itself, that's obviously a personal call because at the end of the day car design is art. But I think you could also make the argument that the Hawk GT was perhaps a bit ahead of the domestic design curve in 1962, because several years later many car designs went with more squared off greenhouses, including coupes. Think 64 Thunderbird, 64 Imperial, as well many 65 Ford and Mopar vehicles. Interestingly, GM kind of went the opposite direction with its Coke bottle lines. Of course in 61 GM was using somewhat squarish greenhouses on its 4 doors. Design has always been one of my fascinations with the auto business. Really enjoy your auto picture posts.

Actually, the squared off roof began with the 58 Thunderbird. It could be argued it was a refinement of the 55-57 Thunderbird’s rounded removable hardtop.

imidazol97

Was that from the 1956 Continental?

andys120

Yup, it's a 1979 Ford Pinto wagon. I'd forgotten about the revised grille on the late ones. It was a big improvement IMO.

ab348

I liked the '77 slant-nose front end look on the Pinto better than the last refresh.

fintail

I don't care for the black Pinto grille either, it goes with that malaise era trick of applying blackout trim on an old design to make it look current - I never fell for that.

Speaking of Pintos, the one to have is the "Cruising Wagon":



Apparently these could be had with the black grille in 79



When I was a kid in the late 80s, my dad wanted to buy one of these - his hobby was metal detecting, and he saw this as a cheap and cheerful rig to transport his gear. I recall he looked around and actually found a few, we test drove two or three of them, I think I recall them being yellow or white and silver. My mom put her foot down pretty hard on it, I think, and he never got one.

andys120

Mr_Shiftright

Is that a Nissan Patrol?

andys120

Mr_Shiftright said:

Is that a Nissan Patrol?

That's right, Shifty, it's a 1965 Nissan Patrol.

berri

Tmart, forgot all about the squarebirds. Guess I was focused on the change from the bulletbird to the 64 restyle.

berri

ima - that 56 was a 10 grand car in its day. Never really took off though, although I kind of liked it.

imidazol97

@berri
They were elegant with the squared off roof line. Then came the 58 Tbird with a really square roof, like a cheaper Continental. I remember building a Revel model of the Continental Mark II--I think that's the right number.

Mr_Shiftright

andys120 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

Is that a Nissan Patrol?

That's right, Shifty, it's a 1965 Nissan Patrol.

Always wanted one.

berri

imi - were you a 63 Buick Riviera fan? It' styling, to me at least, kind of fits in with the MkII and squarebird. I always thought that Riv was very nicely styled, although my favorite of that era was probably the 66 Toronado that went a whole different direction.

andys120

That's right, Shifty, it's a 1965 Nissan Patrol.

Always wanted one.



Kinda neat little thing, looks like a good size for real off-roading. I'v e never seen one, I don't think they sold 'em on the East Coast.

andys120

berri said:

imi - were you a 63 Buick Riviera fan? It' styling, to me at least, kind of fits in with the MkII and squarebird. I always thought that Riv was very nicely styled, although my favorite of that era was probably the 66 Toronado that went a whole different direction.

The Riv, Toronado and FWD Eldorado were all responses to the popularity of the four seat T-Birds. IMO the Rivieras were the best looking of the PLCs (Personal Luxury Coupes). I didn't care much for the Olds or the Caddy because I don't like big FWDs.

In retrospect, the Continental II was a good idea but just too pricey, The Mk III-VII did well because they were priced right even if it's a little silly to have only two doors on such big cars.

berri

andys, do you recall all the media hype and warning back in those days that adding two more seats to the Thunderbird was going to be a disaster Ford may have miscalculated on the Edsel, but they got the Squarebird right.

andys120

Yes, I remember it and the Squarebird was a big success and a trend setter OTOH, the Thunderbird nameplate is gone and the rival two-seat, the Corvette is still around with just two seats and it's one of the longest running nameplates in the business. So I guess it depends on how you look at it.

Mr_Shiftright

The T-Bird had little claim to being an actual "sports car". It handled like your grandma's couch on shopping cart wheels and the clientele for it were simply not Corvette-type people. So it makes sense that Ford took the T-Bird in a different direction. I'm sure they noticed that early Corvette sales were pretty dismal.

andys120

Mr_Shiftright said:

The T-Bird had little claim to being an actual "sports car". It handled like your grandma's couch on shopping cart wheels and the clientele for it were simply not Corvette-type people. So it makes sense that Ford took the T-Bird in a different direction. I'm sure they noticed that early Corvette sales were pretty dismal.

The Corvette didn't go anywhere until it was introduced to the small-block V8 (1955). Ford could've fixed the T-Bird's deficits as well. it was thir choice to go in another direction. They tried again in the 90s but the Retro-Bird had neither power nor handling which I couldn't understand. Why didn't Ford simply re-body a Mustang 5 liter and call it a T-Bird?

andys120

Not recommended:

Mr_Shiftright

Try standing on a modern car and you'll fall right through it.

tjc78

andys120 said:

Mr_Shiftright said:

The T-Bird had little claim to being an actual "sports car". It handled like your grandma's couch on shopping cart wheels and the clientele for it were simply not Corvette-type people. So it makes sense that Ford took the T-Bird in a different direction. I'm sure they noticed that early Corvette sales were pretty dismal.

The Corvette didn't go anywhere until it was introduced to the small-block V8 (1955). Ford could've fixed the T-Bird's deficits as well. it was thir choice to go in another direction. They tried again in the 90s but the Retro-Bird had neither power nor handling which I couldn't understand. Why didn't Ford simply re-body a Mustang 5 liter and call it a T-Bird?

Ford needed something else to use the Jaguar/Lincoln LS platform on. Stupid decision.

The 05 Mustang was originally slated to use it as well.... luckily they wised up and didn’t do it!

ab348

tjc78 said:

Ford needed something else to use the Jaguar/Lincoln LS platform on. Stupid decision.

That platform doesn't seem to get much love.

Mr_Shiftright

The X Type was a god-awful car.

tmart

andys120 said:

Not recommended:

60 Ford Starliner with an Edsel.

tjc78

The Lincoln LS was pretty well received, wasn't it? I've sat in one but never driven.

Reliability wasn't a strong suit, that's for sure.

fintail

58 Edsel Ranger perhaps.

andys120

fintail said:

58 Edsel Ranger perhaps.

I guess you know your Edsels, Fin. It's definitely a '58 Edsel, don't know how you tell one model from another.

omarman

Both Pacer and Ranger were built on the same platform for 1958 but the Pacer had more chrome trim. The Citation and Corsair were both built on a larger chassis also with different trim. I think you can spot the green pickle emblem that marks the Citation as the top model in this brochure art.

berri

The design was a little stretched, but I think what really killed it was a major recession hitting in '58 combined with Ford over promising on what they delivered, as well as too many glitches in the initial released product.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes, Ford basically spent a lot of money merely to confuse the public. Ford didn't know exactly what the Edsel was supposed to be, and neither did buyers. I think the basic idea at the time was to mirror GM's ladder of Chevy-Pontiac-Buick-Oldsmobile-Cadillac.

So, Ford-Edsel-Mercury-Lincoln-Continental.

omarman

1958 was a strange time for Detroit but memorable in other ways. In 1958:

A U.S. interceptor became the first aircraft to simultaneously hold the world speed and altitude records.

The U.S. launched its first satellite and was expected to remain in orbit 3 years but reentered the Earth's atmosphere over the Pacific Ocean in 1970.

British artist Gerald Holtom designed a new symbol for the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament.

And some guy from Tupelo, Mississippi joined the US Army.

Meanwhile in Athens, Ohio the 1958 Model 3 King Midget sold for about $900.

fintail

I was just guessing on the Edsel model. I differentiate them by the lower models being "Ford Edsels" and the senior models "Mercury Edsels".

omarman

fintail said:

I was just guessing on the Edsel model. I differentiate them by the lower models being "Ford Edsels" and the senior models "Mercury Edsels".

Lol! Never thought of it that way but after looking at that mystery car pic again it's true.