Mystery car pix

michaellno

As with the famous quote about art, I don't know how I would define a hatchback, but I know it when I see it.

I don't believe it was art that the comment was made, it was pornography, and it was made by a justice of the Supreme Court.

However, I do concur with your sentiment. I've had two hatchbacks in my driving life - an '85 Accord LX and a 2003 Ford Focus ZX5.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes that's a wagon. The roof goes all the way to the back bumper...that's a wagon. Auzuki Aerio is a wagon. Gremlin is a hatchback. Citation and Saab I would call "liftbacks" because of the 3rd window and to differentiate from true hatchbacks---although that's a quibble of sorts.

This is a hatchback. Small, roof doesn't extend all the way back, no 3rd window behind the doors, and a cut between the tail lights to drop the body to match the floor.

stevedebi

And then there is the unique AMC Gremlin, which is defined as:

"Take an AMC Hornet, a very large saw, and start cutting behind the rear wheels."

Mr_Shiftright

Ohhhh....the rare and beautiful "CHOPBACK"!

Nah, Gremlin is a hatch, definitely.

A thing of beauty:

jbollt

"Nah, Gremlin is a hatch, definitely."

Except......the bottom of the hatch opening is nowhere near the level of the load floor. hmmmm

andys120

Not a hatchback in sight. No one every IDd these vehicles, anyone wanna try?

Mr_Shiftright

Oops you're right. I eat my hat for you.... :sick: I got it confused with the Tercel AWD wagon gate for some reason.

fintail

Blue and white car is a 56 Olds, taxi is a bathtub Nash, car stopping for the light looks like a 55 Ford, car behind the trees kind of looks like a Pontiac, car parked in front of the "Sale" building is a 56 Chevy, pickup across the street from it looks like an early 50s Chevy.

stickguy

I had a yellow '74 Gremlin X when I was in college. This was in 1981. Not actually a bad car for the day.

On the Hornet, there was actually a 2 door hatchback model too. This was in addition to the sportabout. Pretty similar in style to the Nova hatchback of the same vintage.

andys120

The Nash taxi is a 1950 Ambassador.

andys120

boomchek

That's gotta be an early Bristol of some sorts. Maybe Early 70s. Beaufighter? They always had odd names to them.

andys120

You have the right era Boomer, it's a Bristol 411 ('69-'76).

The oddball names come mostly from Bristol's history as an aircraft builder before and during WW II.

This is the original Bristol Beaufighter, considered one of the RAF's best fighter bombers>



The USAF used them in the Mediterranean Theater as night fighters.

andys120

andys120

...a Porsche 356A Speedster, but you already knew that because the proportions are off and the Speedsters had no radiator scoop...because they had no radiators!

It's a French(!) made PGO Cevennes, one of a pair
of mid-engined Speedster look-alikes that use mid-engined Peugeot power.

ateixeira

Still a very cool little car. :shades:

hudsonthedog

"Yes that's a wagon. The roof goes all the way to the back bumper...that's a wagon. Auzuki Aerio is a wagon. Gremlin is a hatchback. Citation and Saab I would call "liftbacks" because of the 3rd window and to differentiate from true hatchbacks---although that's a quibble of sorts."

Liftback...hatchback...same thing in my book.

But what would make a Gremlin a "hatchback" and an Aerio a "wagon?" They both have similar rooflines. And how about the Hornet Sportabout? It seems to have a more horizontal rear hatch and yet I haven't heard anyone defend it as a "hatchback."

Mr_Shiftright

I think I was wrong about the Gremlin. I can't remember how the hatch opens on these cars, and that would (in my mind) determine a definition of it.

Ah well, on to further "mysteries".....

kyfdx

.. at the car show..

It does have fold-down rear seats... I know it has a tailgate like a station wagon, but everything about that car screams hatchback.

andys120

Mr_Shiftright

ohhhh, I want it. Is that a POO-GOT 403?

andys120

Yep, it's a Pig-out 403, I want it if it's a Diesel.

stevedebi

"had a yellow '74 Gremlin X when I was in college. This was in 1981. Not actually a bad car for the day. "

Eight cylinders, as I recall. I had the 232 Cu In in my '73, and I spun the wheels almost every time I left a light. Accidentally, of course. That was my first car, and I liked it. The seats were REALLY terrible though. It was quite the Frankenmobile - all the parts of the engine came from different manufacturers. The starter was Chrysler, and I think the transmission as well.

stevedebi

"I think I was wrong about the Gremlin. I can't remember how the hatch opens on these cars, and that would (in my mind) determine a definition of it."

Post 10931 has a picture of the hatch open. Only the window opened, not the rest of the rear metal.

I think it is a hatchback.

kyfdx

232 and 258 were straight-6s.. The 258 was also used in the CJ-5.

The V-8 was a 5.0 litre.. Those were fairly rare..

alltorque

Great thread..................I'm in catch-up mode so should be up to speed by about the end of July. Just one point. At the end of WWII all British industry emerged slowly. The Germans didn't leave much of it standing, the country was near enough bankrupt and we'd lost quite a lot of our workforce. Still, we love a challenge.

Back to topic.

andre1969

Post 10931 has a picture of the hatch open. Only the window opened, not the rest of the rear metal.

Actually, the rest of the rear metal would open up with time. Usually 1-2 years, as rust set in. :P

andys120

Mr_Shiftright

That is....a BMW 327? Circa 1938? (just a flying guess here).

karsick

Bristol (again! )

andys120

It's not a prewar BMW 327 or a Bristol but those are good guesses because it's a clone of the late 30's BMW that was made in the early 50s by EMW (Eisenacher Motoren Werke), a subsidiary of IFA the East German Company that took over BMW's factory in the Soviet Zone of postwar Germany.

The car was first called a BMW but IFA was sued by their Bavarian cousins and forced to rename it the EMW 327/3.

I saw this car or one just like it at one of the Scottsdale auctions this winter and fell in love with it. What a beautiful car, and what an interesting story.

IFA was the same conglomerate that built the Wartburg and Trabant cars.

karsick

hmmmm...

Those sneaky commies!

This reminds me of those Ural motorbikes that are Iron Curtain clones of BMW bikes.

Mr_Shiftright

Very LOUSY clones of BMW bikes I might add :P

gwinbear

it's 'the wave of the future.'

bumpy

fintail

And from what I understand, there are Chinese clones of those Russian clones that are even worse.

I love those old BMW and Zundapp motorcycles.

karsick

Mitsubishi 380!

The clue was the "Ute" in the background, meaning this pic could ONLY be from Australia, and their "Galant" is called "380" in reference ( I assume) to the 3.8L V6.

Mr_Shiftright

I've driven them both. The Chinese clone was a clone of the FLATHEAD BMW engine and wasn't too bad. The Russian clone was really awful. The metallurgy was atrocious and the engines were weak in power due to sloppy machining. The Chinese one LOOKED crude but it ran okay. The Russian one looked GREAT but ran very badly.

So nobody got it right!

boomchek

And there's a Holden Caprice with a missing taillight parked in front of the Mitsu.

As for the Toyota p/up rebadge job, the logo sorta looks like a SSangyong, but I don't think it si as they usually knock off MB.

magnette

I think this is a Jiangling Landwind, of some sort. Only one I've seen is a clone of the GM Frontera, but who knows ?

magnette

Re no. 10946, the Peugeot 403 wagon, the white car behind it is a Renault 17.

bumpy

magnette

The less than attractive 4x4 is the Peugeot 4007, which launches in Europe next month, although I think in UK we will not see it in RHD until later in the year...

texases

It looks like the unfortunate offspring of a Q7 and an Outlander.

fintail

So you would say the Chinese unit is better than a Russian one? I really like these bikes, and sometimes think about buying one. I am probably just fooling myself as I would have nowhere to put it, but I like how they look and they seem fun. Of course, I would rather just have an original, but with sidecar they seem to go for 20K+.

texases

Just ride one first. I was giving a Ural sidecar rig some consideration (get the wife and son on it), but last thing I read on it had a 'parade' take place every time they had to go uphill on a two lane - couldn't hold 55 mph.

Mr_Shiftright

What I would do is just throw away (or sell if you can) the Chinese or Russian engine and transmission and take a wrecked one out of a real BMW, and adopt that. Lots of people have done this. They know how to make wheelbarrows so the welding is okay but I have no faith in their metallurgy.

fintail

I wouldn't use it as a highway vehicle, even with the lazy way people drive on the highways in the northwest. It would be a fun toy to commute in (surface streets) and toy around with on nice days.

Shifty has a good idea, I never thought of that, put a decent engine in it. This is somehow tempting to me now. I want the old style bike wih a sidecar, and I want it to look like a WWII relic, so no chrome or shiny paint. I have had a slight cycle urge for a long time...I do not like cruisers or Harley style bikes, and the (big engined) sportbikes I like would certainly result in the end of me. Now I just need to get over my admittedly massive fear of the other drivers here, especially the SUVs and new drivers.

andys120

A buddy of mine is really into British bikes (he owns 2 Triumph Bonnevilles) so he decided to buy a clone of a WWII era Royal Enfield that's made in India (!).

It looked pretty cool in it's olive drab finish and he had a lot of fun riding it and showing it off until... He discovered that the metallurgy was pretty lousy, the engine castings were porous and it leaked and burned oil.

He's planning on using as a decorative lampost.

Mr_Shiftright

Oh yeah, I could have flagged him off that piece of junk. It's not even a clone of the 750cc British bike, but rather some 350 cc thing.

Exactly, if it's not from Japan or Korea, don't count on Asian metallurgy. They are very good craftsmen, and something can look great and run really lousy.