Mystery car pix

andys120

You nailed it Magnette, it's a 1975 Ford Granada. I wasn't sure if it was German, or British-made (you can't tell which side the driver is on).

andys120

fintail

Is that a Ferrari 250 LM?

I'll pick off the 64 Ford 4 door post crossing the intersection from the L.

tmart

I'll take the 56 Ford Customline and the 58 Mecury. Also a Nash and Bug on the cross street.

bhill2

And a '60ish Lark ('Vert?) going the other direction from the Ford thru the intersection.

fintail

I just noticed the 64 Ford is a taxi.

I'll pick off another, the convertible apparently parked on the street behind it looks like a 63 Impala.

stever

Car ID help needed. A modern one this time.

berri

So are those two guys on the trailer Carmen and Guido. I don't think I'd mess with them (especially if they have nicknames)

Maybe around a 61 Rambler parked behind the Lark?

andys120

fintail said:

Is that a Ferrari 250 LM?

Close but no cigar, the 250/275LM had a taller windshield>



The car on the transport ramp is the similar but later 275P an open car which won at the Sebring 12 Hours in 1964>



The photo was taken at the 11th Avenue Manhattan location of Chinetti Motors which was the East Coast distributor of Ferrari cars as well as the headquarters of the North American Racing Team (N.A.R.T.)
which was basically a factory team allied with the Scuderia. I suspect these cars are being loaded onto the carrier for transport to Sebring. The race was won by Mike Parkes/Umberto Maglioli in a Factory 275P, another 275P (Scarfiotti/Vaccarella) placed 2nd
.

bhill2

berri said:

So are those two guys on the trailer Carmen and Guido. I don't think I'd mess with them (especially if they have nicknames)

Maybe around a 61 Rambler parked behind the Lark?

I think the Rambler is a 60 because of the hooded headlights.

andys120

While I was working summer jobs in NYC back then I used to stroll over to the far West Side to look at the big liners docked at the piers and have a look at Chinetti's operations. You couldn't see much,this shot will show you why>



None of my visits ever coincided with cars being loaded or unloaded as in the earlier photo, let alone race cars but even a glimpse of Ferraris was a real rarity in the 1960s. It's hard to believe that such exotica resided in grungy Hell's Kitchen.

Zumbach Motor Repair next door was the leader for maintenance of Alfas, Jags, Rolls/Bentley and other imports in New York at that time.

fintail

I've always thought the flat tops were pretty cool looking.

With Manhattan now being a playground for the rich and very rich alike (just don't ask where the money comes from), I suspect there's exotica in the area again.

texases

Somebody needs help on some mystery parts:
http://forums.edmunds.com/discussion/42813/mercury/monterey/can-anyone-tell-me-where-these-go-on-a-68-merc-monterey-convert-trunk-thanks#latest

andys120

kyfdx

Buick Roadmaster (is that what they called the wagon?). About a 1994

andys120

Yup, that's what they called the wagon, in fact I don't believe there was a sedan version of the 90's Buick Roadmaster (other than the Chevy Caprice it was based on).

kyfdx

berri

I used to see a lot of that sedan Roadmaster as taxicabs, often with somewhere around 200K or better on the odometer.

andys120

Oops!

kyfdx

The wagon is a lot better look.

andys120

fintail

Car in the foreground, Ferrari 250 GTE?

I think I see something pretty rare in the background, parked at the curb behind a man in a hat appears to be an early- mid 50s MB 220 (W187) cabrio.

Mr_Shiftright

Yes but it is a 220a or a 220b?

fintail

220a would be a ponton, right? 220b is a fintail. This would just be a 220, a Cabriolet A. I was thinking it might be a 300S/SC, but I think the tail lights on those were not on the rear fender, but inset more.

Mr_Shiftright

I shouldn't really use the small "a" or "b" on this model although sometimes people do in Europe. The Cabriolet A is a two-seater and the Cabriolet B is the 4-seater. Both are 2-doors with the landau bars and padded tops.

So you couldn't tell which one from this particular photo.

fintail

Cabrio B has a rear quarter window, and a more upright top. I'd wager this is a Cabrio A. I think the sportier Cabrio A, with its 3:4 scale 300S/SC looks, would have also found its way over in greater numbers back in the day.

Mr_Shiftright

I don't know about import rates to the USA, but production rates were about the same for the A and B. The A is a lot prettier---better proportioned.

andys120

fintail said:

Car in the foreground, Ferrari 250 GTE?

I think I see something pretty rare in the background, parked at the curb behind a man in a hat appears to be an early- mid 50s MB 220 (W187) cabrio.

Yep, that's Ferrari's first four place model which is known nowadays as the 250GTE. Curiously when this car was extant in the early 1960s it was known as the 250GT 2+2 ("2+2" was later borrowed by Pontiac for a version of the 1965 Catalina) and it lead the way to a major expansion of Ferrari's production numbers.
If anyone knows why the sobriquet GTE replaced GT 2+2 to designate these cars I'd love to know.

IIRC Enzo Ferrari had a 250 2+2 for a personal vehicle. In recent times less than perfect examples of these have been altered to create faux 250 GT SWB, Spider California and even GTO replicas.
Maybe Shifty can tell us how they've been accepted by the collector community.

The photo of course was taken outside Chinetti's redoubt in Hell's Kitchen. It is believed that the man in the suit is Chinetti himself, a remarkable man who co-drove LeMans winners three times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Chinetti

Mr_Shiftright

andys120 said:

fintail said:

Car in the foreground, Ferrari 250 GTE?

I think I see something pretty rare in the background, parked at the curb behind a man in a hat appears to be an early- mid 50s MB 220 (W187) cabrio.

Yep, that's Ferrari's first four place model which is known nowadays as the 250GTE. Curiously when this car was extant in the early 1960s it was known as the 250GT 2+2 ("2+2" was later borrowed by Pontiac for a version of the 1965 Catalina) and it lead the way to a major expansion of Ferrari's production numbers.
If anyone knows why the sobriquet GTE replaced GT 2+2 to designate these cars I'd love to know.

IIRC Enzo Ferrari had a 250 2+2 for a personal vehicle. In recent times less than perfect examples of these have been altered to create faux 250 GT SWB, Spider California and even GTO replicas.
Maybe Shifty can tell us how they've been accepted by the collector community.

The photo of course was taken outside Chinetti's redoubt in Hell's Kitchen. It is believed that the man in the suit is Chinetti himself, a remarkable man who co-drove LeMans winners three times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luigi_Chinetti

The "E" designation comes from the engine variant used, a 128E engine (outside spark plugs) instead of the earlier 128 engine.

andys120

The "E" designation comes from the engine variant used, a 128E engine (outside spark plugs) instead of the earlier 128 engine

That explains why it's called a GTE but not why it's no longer called a GT 2+2, the name it was originally sold as.

I'm a fan of the styling of this particular model>

fintail

Me too. I think 60s-70s-80s Ferraris are worlds better looking and dare I say, classier, than any ostentatious new models. Different worlds, I suppose.

Going back to the MB discussion, who handled MB imports in the early days, was it Hoffman? Other than the cars brought over by servicemen, of course.

andys120 said:

The "E" designation comes from the engine variant used, a 128E engine (outside spark plugs) instead of the earlier 128 engine

That explains why it's called a GTE but not why it's no longer called a GT 2+2, the name it was originally sold as.

I'm a fan of the styling of this particular model>

Mr_Shiftright

I often see it listed as the "250 GTE 2+2" . Like they do for other models, such as the 365 GT4 2+2.

Ferrari nomenclature in that period is so convoluted that the more you can differentiate the models, the better.

Also car designations sometimes evolve. For instance, as far as the Jaguar factory is concerned, they never made an "XKE". They are called E-Type.

andys120

Also car designations sometimes evolve. For instance, as far as the Jaguar factory is concerned, they never made an "XKE". They are called E-Type.

Somebody forgot to tell the ad agency>

andys120

Mr_Shiftright

"XKE" was a name created for the U.S. market only. It was never born that way. Nor did Jaguar ever create the Series 1.5, nor did Ford make a 1964&1/2 Mustang. Nomenclature for cars changes just like language does in general, from usage.

magnette

The orange / town car is a Panhard Dyna Z - I think this trim with the cabriolet body was a Dyna Z15from about 1957-58 - but they also made a hotter version called the Tigre - it could be one of those but they were rare. The blue car is a Fiat 600 or possibly the Seat version - more likely the Fiat in France...

andys120

IMCDB calls it a 1958 Dyna 58 Cabriolet apparently the model year was a part of the model name but they also note that it is a "Z15". Did someone say car nomenclature can be confusing?

Mr_Shiftright

Purrs Like a Mashed Cat (VIDEO)

andys120

fintail

Packard Super 8 Victoria, I will guess 1948. Very similar to Doc Brown's 1955 car:

texases

That's not a '55, is it?

magnette

They did sell the Dyna Z in this country but I don't recall ever seeing a cabriolet of any type - and the various special editions probably never came here either. I've got a model of a saloon with the same trim and that is probably a 58.

magnette

Not very elegant...

fintail

Nope. Doc Brown's 1955 car as in the car he had in 1955. His 1985 car was a GM box van, I think.

texases said:

That's not a '55, is it?

texases

Ah, I got it. Time travel complicates things...

magnette

Not very elegant...



Sorry - didn't mean to repost that.

andys120

magnette said:

Not very elegant...


.

Wartburg?

fintail

Looks to maybe be based on a first series Vauxhall Cresta.

Mr_Shiftright

andys120 said:

With hydro-electric window lifts!

magnette

fintail said:

Looks to maybe be based on a first series Vauxhall Cresta.

Close enough- the original Cresta was a special trim version of the Velox. This is one of those - with the last grille (1056/57 I think. Vauxhall didn't make estate cars then but had an arrangement with two or three firms who did factory approved conversions that didn't infringe warranties etc. This one was by Martin Walter coach builders who also built the Dormobile mobile caravans on Bedford CA chassis.

There was also a Grosvenor Estate on the Velox / Cresta - Grosvenor had made limos on older long wheelbase Vauxhalls a few years before and did hearses as well.