Still waiting for you to answer, all Tundra knowledgeable. Well....
Oh, thats right, you rely on what others tell ya and what a magazine states to make your choices. You don't have a clue about the design and build of your own truck, can't talk shop about it, but it is definitely a superior truck over the big 3, huh? You are "worse" than ole' rueblue. So how bout it, answer up. What are the specifics of your Tundra's design that make it superior in the truck market and exactly why?
Hey Tim, I have heard your rantings here before. What gives?
The ONLY thing I need to know about a Toyota is that it will start when I need it to and will keep running until I want it to stop. I cannot say that about ANY Chevy I've owned.
App is a great place to go to school. I think 15 or 20 people from my high school class('85) went there. Gotta love the ski slopes and the Daniel Boone Inn. You didn't make too many trips across the county line did you????? LOL!!
I started there in 93 so never had to leave the county for anything except the all to frequent trips to Blowing Rock and Banner Elk for liquer drinks. I still go there as much as possible on the weekends while I am stuck in Charlotte. Looking forward to the day when I move back to the mountains whether or not it happens to be in NC.
In defense of Bud Light Dude this is the Tundra vs Big 3 topic we are waiting for your reasons as to why you think your trucks are better than the Big 3.I already know mine is better it was cheaper and still union built and its American,best engine.#1 22 straight years.
Why does everyone have to get so dang rude around here? Lighten up. That goes for everyone, not just the Tundra people or BLD. I don't think anyone will ever be swayed by the arguments shown here. I am very confident, my Ford was the best choice for me. I would like to hear why anyone thinks it isn't. I'm tired of hearing about quality issues, American loyalty, unionisms and the usual childish rantings commonplace on any third grade playground. None of that stuff really matters. Everything made today is of comparable quality, a little luck (regardless of manufacturer) and maintenance and the vehicle will last as long as you want it to. American loyalty has little meaning in a Global economy, it may be assembled here, but where is each component made? What if it is made in Japan by someone educated in the United States? It happens more than you think. Where I went to school, most of my peers never had been to America before coming here for school and had no intention of staying. Its like that everywhere, and I think its great. Competition breeds better finished products. Competition has changed the automotive industry, and now all choices are better. Toyota has even improved from the competition. Unions don't matter to me. Personally, I think they have had their day, but have since ceased to evolve. That will be the downfall of the unions, they need to change with the world around them and not demand more for less. But, they are in a position of power as they have no competition, so their otherworldly demands are met so business can continue.
Please, get off the name calling and tantrums, I for one would like to hear a response to BLDs question... Why is it you think the Tundra engine is so far superior to other engines? I can see it if all you are gonna do with your truck is drag race it around town, but I get the impression that you Toyota fans think it is better for all purposes. Why is the DOHC better in a truck than the SOHC? Simple question.
You are just a kid! I'm old enough to be your brother. If you're stuck in Charlotte this weekend, please snag me 4 tickets to the April 21 Springsteen concert. They go on sale Saturday at 9:00am. I'm gonna do my best to obtain 4 up here. If I strike out on the Charlotte concert, the Raleigh concert tickets go on sale at 10:00. The dang things are $67.50 a pop but he's the only act that's worth that kind of money(at least to me). Wish me luck.
P.S. ACC Tournament tickets(at least 4) would be nice, too. I hope I'm not asking for too much!
Actually, my older brother is old enough to be your older brother. Your not that old, and I sure am not claiming to be old. While I am only 24 I have many friends at and above 30. I saw the Stones at Ericsson several years back and my tickets were close to $100, lickily they were given to me.
Oh yeah back to the topic, whoops, I drive a Tacoma, never mind.
Why do I think the Tundra was a better choice for ME than the big 3?
Well what it comes down to is I had a Silverado on order. Did quite a bit of research and digging and talked to some old friends, I used to sell GMC, and found out at the time as many as 45% of the 2wd trucks were having major vib. problems. I was buying a house and had yet to even test drive a Tundra. I decided that because of the house, I wanted a truck that was reliable and would lesson my fears of getting a lemon. Toyota quality, no matter how much hype it may be, is a pretty well known. They also back up the quality with a 5 year warr. That fit my needs at the time.
After the test drive, I was sold that this was the best half ton truck on the market for my purposes. Quality aside, which we can't really determine for about 10 years, the Tundra, in my opinion is the class leader for what it does. The Tundra is a personal use pickup truck, like most half tons that offers the refinement of a car and the strength and power of a truck. Does it have the strongest engine...NO. Does it tow the most..NO Does is haul the most..NO Is it the fastest production truck..NO. So why bother you ask. Well the Tundra takes all of these attributes and masterfully blends them into a fine balance.
Comfort-My Limited with leather is easily as comfortable as most sport utes and has a much better ride. Back seat is a bit cramped but for it's purpose it does the job better then the Ford or Dodge and is bigger then most sport coupes. That Chevy back seat is pretty darn awesome in a truck though.
Performance-The truck is fast, I mean faster then my Dakota R/T was. It handles very well in the curves and drives smoother then any other truck on the market. Again this is my opinion but I have driven them all extensively.
Work-This truck will tow 6000lbs easily and as smoothly if not more so than the big three. I have not done this and probably never will but know people who have and have read the articles. I guess I can't speak from exp. but I am confident from the reports. The truck will haul a bed full of gravel or sheetrock without breaking so much as a sweat.
Brakes-The brakes are good enough to mention. The abs works when it should, it does not activate way too early like my S10s did and the pedal feel is superior to the new Silverado's 4 disc setup. I am not saying it brakes better then the silverado, I really don't know and I am not trashing the Silverado I am just saying I like the feel of the brakes better on my Tundra.
Why DOHC- Well basically, the market is gorged with people heading to buy trucks. They are not people who are going to use their trucks for construction every day. They are everyday people who are jumping on the bandwagon and or have finally seen trucks evolve enough that they too can have the best of both worlds. These people are ready to dump some dough on a smooth refined, semi lexus like truck that cruise great on the highway and back roads. Why? Simple they are probably never going to need all the stump pulling power down low. They will probably never even fill the bed up 90% of the time. They are the majority though and their money dictates what the market produces. Can the DOHC Tundra do the work of a domestic half yes sir it can. Can it also drive on the highway like nice sedan yes, and can it tear off the line like a sports car and have a very flat torque band yep. The Tundra is desinged to compete with Silverado LTs and Ford Lariats and Ram SLTs. The Tundra is not a construction truck. For that, get a bulletproof pushrod engine, that is easy to maintain or even a diesal and put in something bigger then a half ton. I love the DOHC setup, but I am not pulling stumps either. As far reliability of a DOHC in a truck, who knows. I will let you know in 5 or so years.
The Frame- The Tundra's frame is as close to best in class if not best in class. What amazed me about the rigidity of the frame, from a real persons point of view not an engineers and for all I know this could be bad, is that when going over a big bump or railroad track etc. the body of the cab does not flex independently of the bed of the truck. I have never seen this in a truck and I was extremely impressed.
No LSD- I took my two wheel drive Limited out in 5 inches of snow and it only slid when I wanted it to slide and never so much as spun a wheel. It was like driving on rainy highway.
Cons for me- Stupid clock placement, I am getting over this. I would like to get the mileage that the Silverados are getting but I get close. I would have thought the DOHC setup would be a bit better on mileage, but hey it's a truck, you want mileage, go buy a metro. My R/T got about 12 mpg anything better then that is great to me. I get about 16.5 average 90% around town. 19-20 on strictly highway. Not bad, but not as good as the Silverado. The back seat is a bit cramped but I wouldn't want a larger truck. I like the overall handling and size of my Tundra. The headlights could be a bit brighter when using low beams.
Well that is it for this book. I hope it gives some real info to potential Tundra people, Domestics and anybody else who is curious as to why I think the Tundra is a fine truck and why it is best in class for me.
BTW: Those Toyota engineers did a sweet job on the exhaust note. They need to take this engine retune it to about 275 or 300 hp drop it in a relatively affordable pony car and give it the same sexy exhaust note and you would have a sweet car.
Remember I can't tell you if the Tundra is quality vehicle. I have made an educated guess that it will be more reliable then the domestics but only time will tell. I do think I had less of a chance of getting a lemon then with the domestics, but again it is just a gut feeling.
Thanks for the civil and honest post. Again, your points are much better taken and can be objectively considered than the other Toyota owners you are so unfortunate to have to be associated with.
Your respect of others' choices your demeanor make your posts value added info.
Thanks again. I for one, will never deny the Toyota a good truck for those who prefer it. However, the big 3 makes a damn good truck also, and has things about it that are preferred by many as well. Too many people around the Tundra topics are placing preference into the "my truck is superior" catagory.
I agree the big three make great trucks too. I was torn between the Chevy and the Tundra. I went with a little smaller truck. I fell in love with the smooth power and overall design. Hope it gives me years of good service. Hope yours gives you the same.
When it comes right down to it, it's just personal preference. After all, the car companies concern for us ends at our wallets.
Your right! I'm no master mechanic. I have never rebuilt an engine or tranny. My only big project was replacing the engine in my 78 toy @280,000 miles. Spark plugs, air filter, oil change, valve adjustment, all pretty easy for me and saves money. I haven't had to do any other repairs or service. What is my qualification for evaluating design. Well, I am a certified powerplant and structural frame engineer. So what's your title again...mental hospital escapee or disgruntled postman?
No chatter of machine gun fire, no hand grenades being lobbed, no air strikes or Arty coming in. Somebody declare a cease fire between the TBA and the TLA (Toyota Liberation Army) or is everybody just out enjoying their trucks. I wish I was.
Come on guys the ongoing battle gets me through my day at work. I mean even Rube is reasonably quiet except for a post about the Tundra Exhaust, which is wonderful sounding.
I guess I will just climb down into the trench here and do some work.
I visit other sites around the internet and several Tundra owners are complaining of vibration at higher speeds, wind noise, fading brakes. I would still like to know how the Tundra, being out for less than 2 years can be suddenly thrusted into a "higher quality" catagory? We know nothing of how this truck is going to perform 5 - 10 years down the line do we? Also, another complaint from folks who tow with their Tundras is the V8 has to rev up in order to get the power band going.
I know how a Chevy is LIKELY to be performing in 5 or 10 years. That's why I bought a Toyota. This is based purely on MY experience....which, quite frankly, is all that matters.
Also, please post the other Tundra sites you are visiting. I'd like to visit them, too. I am NOT questioning the validity of your reports, either. Thanks
Call me crazy, but I don't think that Toyota really wants to compete with the Big 3 Full-Size trucks. Oh sure, they say they do, they blab on and on about how it is just as strong, etc, but I'm in marketing and can assure you that the mouth rarely says what the hand is doing. (I know there's a dirty joke in there, but we'll keep it PG)
You see, American Full-Size Truck buyers are one of the most entrenched group of auto consumers on the planet. They are usually brand oriented (Ford-guy, Chevy-Guy...whatever) and they will rarely buy outside of their prefered make and model. Toyota knows this and I don't think that they seriously think they will draw a great number of buyers from that market, it is unrealistic, and they know it. Sure they will get some converts, but not a lot.
I think that Toyota really built The Tundra to compete with the Dakota and to provide a step-up size-wise for the compact and import truck buyers. People who buy Tacomas tend to keep buying them, but will/might eventually need/want a bigger truck, so Toyota wants those buyers to get into the Tundra instead of going for a Big 3 truck. They are mearly preserving market share, with the expandion of market share as a bonus, but not the main objective. Also bear in mind that Nissan sells a lot of compact trucks and when those buyers want/need a bigger trucker, they are more likely to go for a "Japanese" truck (Tundra) then a Big 3 truck.
Let's not forget that the Tundra chassis wil be the basis for a new Toyota SUV which wil most likely be a highly profitable vehicle for the company.
Well, it's just a theory, but I think it has some merit. I find the automobile industry to be facinating, and I enjoy pontificating about it.
I think the Tundra is an excellent truck. I am also a big F-150 fan, so it all bloils down to personal opinion.
Well, okay, I'll call you crazy (remember...your words). Anyone that truly believes that Toyota would spend 1.2 Billion dollars to hoodwink the American public is off base.
I agree with Sporin on Toyota's target. If they wanted to 'really' compete with the Big 3, they would have. they made a truck they thought would be more profitable.
you are very right about current foreign truck owners. Nissan, Toyota, whoever owners will likely buy any Japanese before American. thats where Toyota is selling the most right now, to those owners who want a step up. I never thought of that before, but I know 2 people in my circle of friends exactly like that. they won't even think about ford, GM, Dodge.
thats why I always have to pull the boat for them when we go fishin....
"thats why I always have to pull the boat for them when we go fishin...."
I know what you mean. I got several friends with the Tacoma and T100 trucks. Every time I take them fishing or even if we use their boat, I end up pulling the boat with my Chevy. Not because the Toyota's aren't good for towing the boats, but the guy's at the bass tournaments tend to alienate us if we arrive at the slips with the Toyota's.
Bass and Walleye boat magazine had an article 2-3 years back about what trucks were used most to tow tournament boats. 65% of the bass fishermen that responded to the survey tow with GM trucks. 20% towed with Fords. 10% towed with Dodge's. 5% towed with other (I would guess Toyota).
The only trucks that were used for Walleye tournament fishing (Deep V's, both aluminum and fiberglass boats) and other Northern fishes was Dodge. There are far more bass tournament fisherman than any other. Again, not claiming GM is best to tow with or anything like that as I am the last to take magazine articles to heart, just stating what was in the article.
I also think that GM sponsors a lot of the bass fisherman so the GM trucks are part of the sponsorship. One comment was made that those who towed with GM trucks felt that the match of engine to transmission was better for that type of continued towing. Again, just stating the article. I think it was a Summer month article back in like 97 maybe.
It's a joke to compare the tundra with REAL TRUCKS! After driving a tundra (nice car ride, but it's only a toy) how can you compare this sad truck to a Silverado, F150 or Ram!!!
I understand the original designation of the Tundra was supposed to be T-150. Too much like the F-150 I suppose. And, Toyota probably wanted to distance the Tundra from the T-100 so they dropped the T-150 name. I liked the T-100. But not quite enough leg room up front (I'm 6'3"+) and really wanted a V-8 for towing. Overall the Tundra is great for me ample leg room (more than the F-150 up front) it's very quite on the road even with the off-road tires. I love it. If you haven't driven one try it you may like it! And that engine is beautiful, smooth POWER!!!
I love American cars & trucks with V8s. Outside my window at work is a parking lot with 150 Chevy Caprices, Suburbans, and Expeditions (Caprice was built for Saudi Arabia through 98/99!). I drive 'em everywhere, and they're great. My company over here ONLY buys American, and I'll bet this company has 20,000+ vehicles.
HOWEVER, guess what the locals buy? Toyota. The Bedu that live in the desert? They drive over desert and dunes with no roads in stripped Land Cruisers and toyota desert pickups. EVERY ONE OF EM! When I go offroad and get stuck in the sand with my Suburban, a Bedu in a land cruiser pulls me out. Those things NEVER get stuck and they go everywhere! The Number 1 sold vehicles here: Camry's & Land Cruisers.
The locals don't buy because of advertising (cause there aint any). They buy what works and lasts, in the worst place on earth.
And the problem is, they buy Toyota! And I hate it! But after 8 years, I'm convincerd it's true....Toyota makes the toughest & best trucks in the world. GM is a second best.
Come on GM, give me more, cheaper, better. Beat those Japanese.
Hey...I know it's a bit off the wall, but I also know that I just might not be too far off. :-)
eagleeye1, I don't think what I described is a "hoodwink" at all. The Tundra and the Tundra platform, even if they didn't convert one single Big 3 buyer, would/will still be very profitable. The Tundra trucks and the new SUV off the platform. Let's not forget how many of these trucks they will sell in foreign markets too.
cdean, I think the same thing you do...if Toyota really wanted to build a true, full-size truck to compete with the Big 3, they would have done it. Toyota has shown that it can redefine and take over automotive categories before...just look at the mid-size sedan market.
Still, it all comes down to what you want and need in a truck.
Suburban in the sand??? Not a good choice. The Toyota vehicles are lighter and don't sink as easily. I have had my Ranger in dunes and it does just fine. I would have to agree that Toyota just wanted keep market share with Tacoma owners moving up to a larger truck. Other sites I visit are carpoint, Car/driver, truck trend, popular mechanics, Epinions. Just to name a few to gather other info.
Most people buy American especially when it comes to a truck and most people prefer to support there Country.I could write a book on horror stories of foreign trucks at jobsites.Here's a good one at a union meeting one time somebody came to the hall in a tacoma, while he was in doing his business a couple of guys glued a piece of plywood to his windshield he had to drive home with his head out the window.
It seems as though Toyota is going to great effort to convince someone that the Tundra is in fact a "full-size truck". I was just reading through the new Tundra catalogue and was struck at the frequency of reference to the "Full-Size Tundra", (as if there were also a "not-full-size" Tundra, but here we are referring to the "full-size one"). I counted at least 30 references to the "Full-Size Tundra", including "full-size cab", "full-size seats", and even "full-size Peace of Mind".
Now, I know marketing has a job to do to sell these trucks, but in an effort to distance themselves from the sales failure of the T100, I think that Toyota may be trying hard with a product that they know is essentially the same size as the T100, but stretched 6" to accommodate a V8 engine.
If one compares the T100 and Tundra track, width, hip room, leg room, bed size, GVWR, cargo volume; all of the data is essentially identical between the two trucks. In fact, the Tundra lost 20% in payload due to the V8 (and the Tundra also lost 1.4" of front leg room).
Other than the added V8 power, according to the specifications, it just doesn't seem as though the Tundra is any more of a "Full size" truck than the T100 was. However, the Tundra's sales success may well hinge on the ever successful state of mind of the buying public.
Seems your whole place in life is to insult Toyota.
Why aren't you going after GM, Ford and DC for opening plants in Mexico and shutting American ones? Toyota is the one that spent 1.2 Billion dollars to make trucks in the heart of the USA.
Barlitz, your Tacoma story didn't impress. Sounds more like a bunch of children at play. You must be just like them if you found this sort of crap funny.
Speaking the truth? You wouldn't know the truth if you saw it. If your posts are any indication, you don't have enough intelligence to decifer the truth. By the way, you might think your hillbillie style spelling is funny, but it isn't.
The Tundra will tow a trailer in excess of 7000 pounds which puts it in the same class as the other light duty pickups. A few inches doesn't matter to most people..fact is, the Tundra weighs just 200 pounds less than a 5.3L Silverado..they are more the same than different, Bob. If you have such a fixation about size, perhaps you are feeling sexually inadequate. What is your agenda Bob? Are you being paid by a certain manufacturer to post your verbal assassination. Although you are obviously greatly disturbed by the Toyota Tundra, get used to it. The Sequoia SUV is out this fall and then a heavy duty 3/4 ton Tundra will follow. Plus, Nissan and Honda will soon come on stream as well. Bad for Bob but great for the consumer to finally have quality made truck products.
Oh and my apologies to the good folks of Kentucky for my previous use of the term Hillbillie. I believe that was too much of a compliment to pay to rubluetoo. Moronic would have been more appropriate.
Rube, with his true hillbilly act or not, is just another Chevy own upset over their purchase. He speaks no truth about Tundra. He knows NOTHING. I saw through this guy months ago. Every post he writes reflects his warp mind. Ignore him and he will blow away.
You are more than welcome to bring your truck to the next meeting 2nd Tuesday of every month.And you can tell everyone how you use screenname eagleye1, isn't the eagle the symbol of this great Country the Country's whos products you bash.
I am not bashing American made products, afterall, the Tundra is made in Indiana. It is the others that are made in Canada and Mexico. But frankly, I don't care where they are made as long as they give me good reliable service. Toyota does that for me. I am not convinced about the others because I got burned too many times in the past. That should change as more and more import trucks are made in this category.
Regarding my handle, it has nothing to do with your national bird. I got my nick name from my hunting buddies that noted my uncanny ability to see things they couldn't. I am the one that usually gets the buck.
By the way, you BTA boys (and I mean boys literally) are getting rather stale in your approach. At least you could do is dream up something original to [non-permissible content removed] about, like the salaries of GM execs.
I am not going to argue unions and salaries, but had to comment on your last post. You are correct about ALL auto manuf. execs, not just GM. All the manuf. execs, even Toyota, are costing us lower wage earners too much money. However, just a point to make, the Toyota workers that build the Toyota Tundra make less money than the UAW, but that savings to Toyota is not passed on to it's buying customers. Toyota is much more expensive than an equally equipped domestic truck. Where is the extra money going????? Yep, into Toyota executives pockets and back overseas.
Again, I am not anti-import or pro union. Just my observation for what it is worth.
What do you consider "full" size....I want specifics...just to see if you have ANY idea what you are talking about.....so please be specific so we can end this size debate: Weight= wheelbase= front track= rear track= Length= width= height= ground clearance= horsepower= torque=
I'll even let your answer set the standard.
Me? I figure you got one oar in the water, five bricks short of a full load, elevator doesn't go to the top floor, not the sharpest tool in the shed, not playing with a full deck, 2+2=jello, took the short yellow bus to school, 3rd grade was your senior year, lights are on but nobody's home, etc. etc.
Please do not respond to Rubluetoo! He prowls the Tundra topics and does nothing but bash and trash seemingly with no point and rarely with any facts. It seems as if his goal is to ruin every Tundra topic...what a productive little agenda.
The Tundra has had a few initial problems, one of them being the "vibration" issue. I don't think anyone is trying to deny that, but the new Silverado has had it's fair share of growing pains as well.
It is also a known educational and sociological fact that it takes more itelligence to write in a dialect or accent, then it is to actually speak it. This leads me to the conclusion that Rubluetoo's Gumpian ramblings are there mearly to insult, mock and demean others. He has also been spoken to by the admins many times about his blatently racist remarks.
The fine, upstanding members of Edmunds Town Hall should not support this sort of behavior.
Comments
- LOL
- Tim
Oh, thats right, you rely on what others tell ya and what a magazine states to make your choices.
You don't have a clue about the design and build of your own truck, can't talk shop about it, but it is definitely a superior truck over the big 3, huh? You are "worse" than ole' rueblue.
So how bout it, answer up. What are the specifics of your Tundra's design that make it superior in the truck market and exactly why?
Hey Tim, I have heard your rantings here before. What gives?
Please, get off the name calling and tantrums, I for one would like to hear a response to BLDs question... Why is it you think the Tundra engine is so far superior to other engines? I can see it if all you are gonna do with your truck is drag race it around town, but I get the impression that you Toyota fans think it is better for all purposes. Why is the DOHC better in a truck than the SOHC? Simple question.
P.S. ACC Tournament tickets(at least 4) would be nice, too. I hope I'm not asking for too much!
I saw the Stones at Ericsson several years back and my tickets were close to $100, lickily they were given to me.
Oh yeah back to the topic, whoops, I drive a Tacoma, never mind.
Well what it comes down to is I had a Silverado on order. Did quite a bit of research and digging and talked to some old friends, I used to sell GMC, and found out at the time as many as 45% of the 2wd trucks were having major vib. problems. I was buying a house and had yet to even test drive a Tundra. I decided that because of the house, I wanted a truck that was reliable and would lesson my fears of getting a lemon. Toyota quality, no matter how much hype it may be, is a pretty well known. They also back up the quality with a 5 year warr. That fit my needs at the time.
After the test drive, I was sold that this was the best half ton truck on the market for my purposes. Quality aside, which we can't really determine for about 10 years, the Tundra, in my opinion is the class leader for what it does. The Tundra is a personal use pickup truck, like most half tons that offers the refinement of a car and the strength and power of a truck. Does it have the strongest engine...NO. Does it tow the most..NO Does is haul the most..NO Is it the fastest production truck..NO. So why bother you ask. Well the Tundra takes all of these attributes and masterfully blends them into a fine balance.
Comfort-My Limited with leather is easily as comfortable as most sport utes and has a much better ride. Back seat is a bit cramped but for it's purpose it does the job better then the Ford or Dodge and is bigger then most sport coupes. That Chevy back seat is pretty darn awesome in a truck though.
Performance-The truck is fast, I mean faster then my Dakota R/T was. It handles very well in the curves and drives smoother then any other truck on the market. Again this is my opinion but I have driven them all extensively.
Work-This truck will tow 6000lbs easily and as smoothly if not more so than the big three. I have not done this and probably never will but know people who have and have read the articles. I guess I can't speak from exp. but I am confident from the reports. The truck will haul a bed full of gravel or sheetrock without breaking so much as a sweat.
Brakes-The brakes are good enough to mention. The abs works when it should, it does not activate way too early like my S10s did and the pedal feel is superior to the new Silverado's 4 disc setup. I am not saying it brakes better then the silverado, I really don't know and I am not trashing the Silverado I am just saying I like the feel of the brakes better on my Tundra.
Why DOHC- Well basically, the market is gorged with people heading to buy trucks. They are not people who are going to use their trucks for construction every day. They are everyday people who are jumping on the bandwagon and or have finally seen trucks evolve enough that they too can have the best of both worlds. These people are ready to dump some dough on a smooth refined, semi lexus like truck that cruise great on the highway and back roads. Why? Simple they are probably never going to need all the stump pulling power down low. They will probably never even fill the bed up 90% of the time. They are the majority though and their money dictates what the market produces. Can the DOHC Tundra do the work of a domestic half yes sir it can. Can it also drive on the highway like nice sedan yes, and can it tear off the line like a sports car and have a very flat torque band yep. The Tundra is desinged to compete with Silverado LTs and Ford Lariats and Ram SLTs. The Tundra is not a construction truck. For that, get a bulletproof pushrod engine, that is easy to maintain or even a diesal and put in something bigger then a half ton. I love the DOHC setup, but I am not pulling stumps either. As far reliability of a DOHC in a truck, who knows. I will let you know in 5 or so years.
The Frame- The Tundra's frame is as close to best in class if not best in class. What amazed me about the rigidity of the frame, from a real persons point of view not an engineers and for all I know this could be bad, is that when going over a big bump or railroad track etc. the body of the cab does not flex independently of the bed of the truck. I have never seen this in a truck and I was extremely impressed.
No LSD- I took my two wheel drive Limited out in 5 inches of snow and it only slid when I wanted it to slide and never so much as spun a wheel. It was like driving on rainy highway.
Cons for me- Stupid clock placement, I am getting over this. I would like to get the mileage that the Silverados are getting but I get close. I would have thought the DOHC setup would be a bit better on mileage, but hey it's a truck, you want mileage, go buy a metro. My R/T got about 12 mpg anything better then that is great to me. I get about 16.5 average 90% around town. 19-20 on strictly highway. Not bad, but not as good as the Silverado. The back seat is a bit cramped but I wouldn't want a larger truck. I like the overall handling and size of my Tundra. The headlights could be a bit brighter when using low beams.
Well that is it for this book. I hope it gives some real info to potential Tundra people, Domestics and anybody else who is curious as to why I think the Tundra is a fine truck and why it is best in class for me.
BTW: Those Toyota engineers did a sweet job on the exhaust note. They need to take this engine retune it to about 275 or 300 hp drop it in a relatively affordable pony car and give it the same sexy exhaust note and you would have a sweet car.
Remember I can't tell you if the Tundra is quality vehicle. I have made an educated guess that it will be more reliable then the domestics but only time will tell. I do think I had less of a chance of getting a lemon then with the domestics, but again it is just a gut feeling.
Your respect of others' choices your demeanor make your posts value added info.
Thanks again. I for one, will never deny the Toyota a good truck for those who prefer it. However, the big 3 makes a damn good truck also, and has things about it that are preferred by many as well. Too many people around the Tundra topics are placing preference into the "my truck is superior" catagory.
When it comes right down to it, it's just personal preference. After all, the car companies concern for us ends at our wallets.
- Tim
Look on quad's face when you pass his stranded chevy....priceless!
Come on guys the ongoing battle gets me through my day at work. I mean even Rube is reasonably quiet except for a post about the Tundra Exhaust, which is wonderful sounding.
I guess I will just climb down into the trench here and do some work.
hospital escapee or disgruntled postman?"
You are asking me who is mental...who is disgruntled.
Enjoy that truck, it's worth at least $30k more than you are.
I would still like to know how the Tundra, being out for less than 2 years can be suddenly thrusted into a "higher quality" catagory? We know nothing of how this truck is going to perform 5 - 10 years down the line do we?
Also, another complaint from folks who tow with their Tundras is the V8 has to rev up in order to get the power band going.
Also, please post the other Tundra sites you are visiting. I'd like to visit them, too. I am NOT questioning the validity of your reports, either. Thanks
You see, American Full-Size Truck buyers are one of the most entrenched group of auto consumers on the planet. They are usually brand oriented (Ford-guy, Chevy-Guy...whatever) and they will rarely buy outside of their prefered make and model. Toyota knows this and I don't think that they seriously think they will draw a great number of buyers from that market, it is unrealistic, and they know it. Sure they will get some converts, but not a lot.
I think that Toyota really built The Tundra to compete with the Dakota and to provide a step-up size-wise for the compact and import truck buyers. People who buy Tacomas tend to keep buying them, but will/might eventually need/want a bigger truck, so Toyota wants those buyers to get into the Tundra instead of going for a Big 3 truck. They are mearly preserving market share, with the expandion of market share as a bonus, but not the main objective. Also bear in mind that Nissan sells a lot of compact trucks and when those buyers want/need a bigger trucker, they are more likely to go for a "Japanese" truck (Tundra) then a Big 3 truck.
Let's not forget that the Tundra chassis wil be the basis for a new Toyota SUV which wil most likely be a highly profitable vehicle for the company.
Well, it's just a theory, but I think it has some merit. I find the automobile industry to be facinating, and I enjoy pontificating about it.
I think the Tundra is an excellent truck. I am also a big F-150 fan, so it all bloils down to personal opinion.
Enjoy.
THE TBA
officer in charge propaganda
Barlitz
you are very right about current foreign truck owners. Nissan, Toyota, whoever owners will likely buy any Japanese before American. thats where Toyota is selling the most right now, to those owners who want a step up. I never thought of that before, but I know 2 people in my circle of friends exactly like that. they won't even think about ford, GM, Dodge.
thats why I always have to pull the boat for them when we go fishin....
when we go fishin...."
I know what you mean. I got several friends with the Tacoma and T100 trucks. Every time I take them fishing or even if we use their boat, I end up pulling the boat with my Chevy. Not because the Toyota's aren't good for towing the boats, but the guy's at the bass tournaments tend to alienate us if we arrive at the slips with the Toyota's.
Bass and Walleye boat magazine had an article 2-3 years back about what trucks were used most to tow tournament boats. 65% of the bass fishermen that responded to the survey tow with GM trucks.
20% towed with Fords. 10% towed with Dodge's. 5% towed with other (I would guess Toyota).
The only trucks that were used for Walleye tournament fishing (Deep V's, both aluminum and fiberglass boats) and other Northern fishes was Dodge. There are far more bass tournament fisherman than any other. Again, not claiming GM is best to tow with or anything like that as I am the last to take magazine articles to heart, just stating what was in the article.
I also think that GM sponsors a lot of the bass fisherman so the GM trucks are part of the sponsorship. One comment was made that those who towed with GM trucks felt that the match of engine to transmission was better for that type of continued towing. Again, just stating the article. I think it was a Summer month article back in like 97 maybe.
HOWEVER, guess what the locals buy? Toyota. The Bedu that live in the desert? They drive over desert and dunes with no roads in stripped Land Cruisers and toyota desert pickups. EVERY ONE OF EM! When I go offroad and get stuck in the sand with my Suburban, a Bedu in a land cruiser pulls me out. Those things NEVER get stuck and they go everywhere! The Number 1 sold vehicles here: Camry's & Land Cruisers.
The locals don't buy because of advertising (cause there aint any). They buy what works and lasts, in the worst place on earth.
And the problem is, they buy Toyota! And I hate it! But after 8 years, I'm convincerd it's true....Toyota makes the toughest & best trucks in the world. GM is a second best.
Come on GM, give me more, cheaper, better. Beat those Japanese.
What say the rest of you outside the US of A?
eagleeye1,
I don't think what I described is a "hoodwink" at all. The Tundra and the Tundra platform, even if they didn't convert one single Big 3 buyer, would/will still be very profitable. The Tundra trucks and the new SUV off the platform. Let's not forget how many of these trucks they will sell in foreign markets too.
cdean,
I think the same thing you do...if Toyota really wanted to build a true, full-size truck to compete with the Big 3, they would have done it. Toyota has shown that it can redefine and take over automotive categories before...just look at the mid-size sedan market.
Still, it all comes down to what you want and need in a truck.
I would have to agree that Toyota just wanted keep market share with Tacoma owners moving up to a larger truck.
Other sites I visit are carpoint, Car/driver, truck trend, popular mechanics, Epinions. Just to name a few to gather other info.
Now, I know marketing has a job to do to sell these trucks, but in an effort to distance themselves from the sales failure of the T100, I think that Toyota may be trying hard with a product that they know is essentially the same size as the T100, but stretched 6" to accommodate a V8 engine.
If one compares the T100 and Tundra track, width, hip room, leg room, bed size, GVWR, cargo volume; all of the data is essentially identical between the two trucks. In fact, the Tundra lost 20% in payload due to the V8 (and the Tundra also lost 1.4" of front leg room).
Other than the added V8 power, according to the specifications, it just doesn't seem as though the Tundra is any more of a "Full size" truck than the T100 was. However, the Tundra's sales success may well hinge on the ever successful state of mind of the buying public.
Why aren't you going after GM, Ford and DC for opening plants in Mexico and shutting American ones? Toyota is the one that spent 1.2 Billion dollars to make trucks in the heart of the USA.
Barlitz, your Tacoma story didn't impress. Sounds more like a bunch of children at play. You must be just like them if you found this sort of crap funny.
Good luck on this one now!
Oh and my apologies to the good folks of Kentucky for my previous use of the term Hillbillie. I believe that was too much of a compliment to pay to rubluetoo. Moronic would have been more appropriate.
Regarding my handle, it has nothing to do with your national bird. I got my nick name from my hunting buddies that noted my uncanny ability to see things they couldn't. I am the one that usually gets the buck.
By the way, you BTA boys (and I mean boys literally) are getting rather stale in your approach. At least you could do is dream up something original to [non-permissible content removed] about, like the salaries of GM execs.
Where is the extra money going????? Yep, into Toyota executives pockets and back overseas.
Again, I am not anti-import or pro union. Just my observation for what it is worth.
Weight=
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rear track=
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I'll even let your answer set the standard.
Me? I figure you got one oar in the water, five bricks short of a full load, elevator doesn't go to the top floor, not the sharpest tool in the shed, not playing with a full deck, 2+2=jello, took the short yellow bus to school, 3rd grade was your senior year, lights are on but nobody's home, etc. etc.
The Tundra has had a few initial problems, one of them being the "vibration" issue. I don't think anyone is trying to deny that, but the new Silverado has had it's fair share of growing pains as well.
It is also a known educational and sociological fact that it takes more itelligence to write in a dialect or accent, then it is to actually speak it. This leads me to the conclusion that Rubluetoo's Gumpian ramblings are there mearly to insult, mock and demean others. He has also been spoken to by the admins many times about his blatently racist remarks.
The fine, upstanding members of Edmunds Town Hall should not support this sort of behavior.