Tundra vs. Big 3

Sporin

I suppose it is unfair to accuse someone of being a racist without offering some proof, so I will explain. This will be my last post on the subject of Rubluetoo.

A few months back, in either the Toyota Tundra II or III topics, Rubluetoo was posting almost constantly. Among his usual baseless accusations and Gumpian double-speak, he started referring to Toyota's as "Tojo Trucks." Tojo is the shortened name of a past Japanese ruler who can only be described as horrible, an evil, war-mongering mass murderer. Referring to Toyota's as "Tojo Trucks" would be like referring to VW's as "Hitler-Mobiles" so perhaps you see the issue. It was an even stronger affirmation of Rubluetoo's already pseudo-racist, anti-foreign truck blathering. This, along with the way her writes which I find particularly offensive caused me to report him to the admins. I was assured by them that they had their eye on Rubluetoo for a while and agreed that he was in the wrong. I was assured that he would be dealt with. A number of his posts were scribbled and he seemed to disapear for a while. I have gone back and tried to track down some of these offensive posts, but unfortunately, Edmunds only allows you to search topic titles and not content, so I have been unsuccessful sorting through the 2000+ Tundra posts. For this I apoligize, and ask you to simply take my word for it. I'm sure others saw this stuff too, so maybe someone will coroberate my story.

I don't often get involved in this sort of thing. I don't "have it out" for anyone, and in my 1000+ post to the Edmunds Town Hall, I think I have always been fair. I have no problem with the opinions of others, and I think my past here shows that clearly. This particular poster and his rantings, however, are so blatently offensive to me that I find I cannot bite my tounge.

I hope that explains my position, and clears up any issues for anyone. I will continue to post to this and other forums, I just will ignore Rubluetoo. I refuse to let one bad apple spoil the whole bushel for me, but I won't "stick my head in the sand" and ignore someone who is so blatently ignoring the Participants Agreement as well as common decency and respect for others.

bud_light_dude

Well now, I have some ocean front property in Arizona and Nevada I would like to sell ya.......

eagleeye1

Your post #181 was very well received by me. Thnak you for the info about Gump.

quadrunner500

I think you are a little confused on the meaning of racism. I think the word you are looking for is bigotry. Being anti-foreign is not racist, although I understand you find it offensive. The best thing is to take a break from it, or stop reading it.

quadrunner500

If you look at the title of this topic, you have to expect some bashing here. However, I think it is bad netiquette to do this in a serious topic versus one that is intented for banter.

cskala

got your post doesn't surprise me rubluetoo is a racist/bigot. I too will ignore him!

Sporin

Bigotry / racism, it's all hateful. I appreciate the support, though I am not looking for it and understand the opinions to the contrary.

I'm not trying to change anyone's opinions, and if you weren't a witness to previous actions, I can see where you might think I am going a bit overboard.

I hold people to the same standards on the Internet as I do in R/L and I don't see anything wrong with that. For me, to not say something would be much worse.

I stand by my statement, now we should just drop it.

Thanks

scape2

First, made and assembled in the USA are two totally different things. You claim the Toyota spent 1 billion dollars on this plant, where does the tooling come from to buld the trucks? engine? tranny? spare parts for tooling? I work for a Japanese company they spent 1 billion dollars for a new plant, got severe tax breaks, and bought ALL Japanese tooling machines to make the product!!! Before you go claiming Toyota as the god of all car/truck manufacturing, helping the American worker and such, better check where all the profits go they make on those terribly expensive cars and trucks made by folks who make far less than a UAW worker. There is a give and take, and the Japanese are no stranger to PROFIT.
The Tundra is not a full size truck, this has been established over and over. Someone posted above all interior/exterior dimensions and they are closer to the Dakota. That topic is dead, Tundra is NOT A FULL SIZE TRUCK.

eagleeye1

Frankly Vince, I could care less where the tooling came from. $1 Billion is small change for a huge economy like the USA. I don't claim Toyota is a God either. I like their products plain and simple. They do a great job and frankly, any company that serves me well should get a good profit for doing so. That is the free enterprise system.

As far as where the profits go, well, all over the world, that's where. Shareholders, many of them Americans I might add, get dividends from their investment just like holders of GM stock do. But actually, ownership of auto manufacturers today is so mixed today that without a shareholder listing in hand, it is hard to know the answer to your question. But speaking of profits, where do you suppose the bulk of Daimler Chrysler profits will go now?

As for Tundra not being a full size truck. I wholeheartedly disagree. Is it a bit smaller than the American nameplate trucks, yes! Sowhat! Since when did US automakers get to monopolize what is and what isn't considered full size? The Tundra is 10 inches shorter than the Silverado and three inches narrower. It weighs 200 pounds less. Big deal...I really don't care! They both have simular tow rating and cargo hauling capacities. They both will pull a 7000 trailer from 0-60 in 25 seconds. You can debate full size till your blue in the face....I don't care and thousands of others obviously don't care either. The fact is, the Tundra is a great truck and it does for me what I expect from a big truck.

cskala

First Rubluetoo,
The claim: can't buy Toyota Stock
The Fact: Toyota stock is trading for $90 (thats dollars not yen) and you can buy it!!

Why don't you respond to my post #177 so I can end your foolishness!!!!(or be ya chicken)

eagleeye1

The war has been over for 55 years. My father fought in that war and he is still around and doesn't hold a grudge. You shouldn't either.

But since you raised the issue, what about the war with Germany. We let Daimler walk in and buy the majority of Chrysler. Nobody said anything...could it be because they are white and have blue eyes? Makes you sick..what about the terrible things the Germans did over there..that is what makes me sick!

The world has changed my friend and you better get used to it. Globalization is here to stay.

tracyo

If you are going to spend 28k to 32k for a truck why buy a toy when you can get a truck! My f250 superduty,psd,cc,xlt will out pull, out haul, carry more people, get more mpg,,last longer,look better than any toy tundra and I paid about the same. I don't get it. Who would buy these toys much less brag on them. No comparison yet they cost about the same. Just my opinion.

cskala

As a combat decorated pilot, I'd like to reiterate: what is great about the USA is you have the freedom of choice and you don't have to submit to the strong-arm flag-waving marketing techniques of the big 3. The day my patriatism is in question is the day you, and they can KISS MY DECORATED [non-permissible content removed]!!!

eagleeye1

Yes, the Super duty is a nice truck. If that is what a person wants, great.

good_guy

The data you posted are somewhat misleading. First off, you are using the Ram 2500 which is not a 1/2 ton class. The Ram 1500 is the truck the Tundra is competing against. The max towing on the Ram 1500 is something like 7500 lbs. Payload is about 1600 lbs. The Tundra V-8 SR5 has 1900 lbs payload. First off, there is no actual measurements that indicate what is a full size, right? There are too many overlaps on some categories. If we use towing capabilities as a measurement of fullsize, that would put some Ranger, Tacomas, S-10/Sonoma's, Frontiers at a higher ranking than say an F-150 SC with a manual V6 and 3.08 gears. Bed length can't really be a classifier since that will make the F-150 SuperCrew a compact. Payload would make a Tacoma Prerunner a fullsize which obviously isn't. I heard that to classify a fullsize, the bed should be able to hold a certain width plywood between wheel wells, though I am not too sure about that. I however do think the Tundra is "too small", on the basis of its very shallow bed. The bed depth is acceptable for the Rangers and Tacoma, but not for a supposably fullsize. But if it can do what 1/2 ton fullsize can do, then it must be a full-size, although with that reasoning, that could put the Dakota in the fullsize class. Guys we are wading on muddy waters here.

Leo dC

eagleeye1

The bed depth on the Tundra is a mear 2 inches less than the Silverado. If you want to argue about two inches, be my guest.

barlitz

If you go back and read any of my posts you'll see that my arguements are with the Japanese not necessarilly with Toyota,Toyotas and Hondas are large nonamerican purchases and because Japan will not even budge on fair trading with the US it costs many Americans jobs,like I said many times every time a Toyota is purchased the trade defecit goes up costing the US more money.And by the way all us BIG3 people are still waiting for any factual posts on why you all made the injustice purchase to your country on them nonfullsize Tundras.

scape2

YES, the standards have been set by Ford/GM/Dodge as to what a full size truck should be! All these Tundra owners want to justify in their minds what a full size truck should be. Sorry, the standards have been set, Toyota didn't meet the standards. Toyota cannot jump into the full size truck market after 30+ years and change what a full size truck is meant to be. The Tundra is closer to the Dakota, the numbers cannot be disputed, its in black and white.
Also, I own a Ranger and parked next to a Tundra yesterday. I took a quick peek underneath and couldn't get over the rear axle and driveline! It was the same size as my Ranger!! What is up with that! When I compared my Ranger to my friends 150 the rear axle was beefier along with the drive line. Wonder how long these are going to last under a large tow or haul??

cskala

the tundra comes with 35% domestic content assembled in the USA by Americans not Japanese. Some Chevy, Ford and Dodge full size trucks are only 50% domestic content and not assembled in the USA by Americans. Hell Chrysler is owned by Germans now. We're only splitting hairs if we're talking about a few percentage points.

But that's not important. The lines between domestic/import are too blurred anymore(cadillac catera for example). when toyota built the factory in Indiana I'm sure they did it to get around import duties and because ofthe $/yen exchange rate. they don't care about helping US workers. neither does GM/Ford/Dodge. it's all about competition.

And the corporations are only truely benefiting the stockholder. and who is that. the only vehicle stock I own is harley davidson. and thats been benefiting me quite nicely!!

toyota did dump 1.2 billion into indiana, and brought in thousands of jobs. I'd say that benefits USA in the trade deficit wars.

pcheng

Bobby Joe,

Are you still spouting off on the size thing again? What say you on my last post in Tundra IV:

"So what you're saying is that a 'full sized' truck
isn't a 'full sized' truck if it doesn't have a
long bed? or if you can't find it on a farm?

Frankly, I don't live on a farm. My inlaws have
80 acres in WA with over 30 head of cattle on it.
BTW, he drives a Chevy short bed."

Chevy short bed is smaller than a Tundra. Guess that Chevy is one of dem small ones.

(Thought I would take this line of thought to this board and leave the other board alone).

vocus

I drove a Tundra with the V8 and 2WD today for the first time. I now have a Mazda Protege. I LOVED it! The power was awesome, the car was as quiet as a Bonneville I used to have, and it is sooo solid and refined! I had to look twice (at the tachometer) to make sure the engine was still running. Definitely a great truck. More refined than any full-size truck out there from the Americans. If you are in the market, make the jump! They are also priced well comparably equipped and do everything great. There is also the promise of Toyota reliability and durability.

2drive

Keep in mind that my last payload listing were unrestricted maximums, not necessarily for
4x4 ext. cab models.

But you are correct, Good Guy, I missed the Tundra footnote for the optional 4x2 Payload Package, which will allow 2,011, not the 1,924 lb that I listed.

The Dakota Quad Cab has a payload of 1,450, but the Dakota reg. cab 4x2, 4x4 and ext. cab 4x2 all have a max. payload of a ton or greater.

I'll concede that the best of the Tundra can (almost) haul with the best of the Dakota and 1500 Ram.

5pots

Just out of curiosity. How old are you Rubluetoo, and what type of tractor do you have??? Whats your reason for disliking Tundras so much.

Why am I asking this, well I think its good to know a persons background before stereotyping someone, and it would help to validate what you are saying.

rwagoner

I love the people who spout off about "legendary Toyota quality." That "legend" is what made them replace, what, EVERY head gasket on every Tacoma V6 they made through 1998?

That being said, the Tundra is a good mid-sized truck, and appeals to Tacoma drivers who really wouldn't have considered a Big 3 truck anyway. Larger than Tacoma, smaller than Silverado. Perfect size for some people; far too small (and an awful back seat) for me.

And my guess is that those who feel the Tundra's engine is "so much smoother than anything from Detroit" have not driven a Silverado. Why would they? They wouldn't consider anything but Toyota anyway.

tp4unc

My brother's ZR2 S10 was in the shop for brake repairs(can you believe that??!!) and was to be ready at 1:00. I drove my brother to the dealership and, of course, the truck wasn't ready. To kill some time, we gave a '99 Silverado LS extended cab 4x4 a 75 minute test-drive. The Tundra's engine is MUCH smoother. How anyone can dispute that is beyond my comprehension.

You are right about the back seat, however.

By the way, TOYOTA paid for the head gasket repairs on ALL affected vehicles. Chevy did not pick up the tab for my brother's faulty brakes or the defective tranny in my '95 Blazer. I could go on and on, but what's the point? Some people just don't get it.

tracyo

I think the Tundra is probably a nice mid sized truck, I don't know because I did not even stop to look at them because they are not even close to being heavy duty enough to meet my needs. The thing I don't understand is they have them priced as full size trucks. You get so much more for your money when you get a real full size truck.The tundra would never hold up at under the heavy loads some people buy trucks for but the price is very close. I think that is all rublueto has been trying to get across and I agree with him.

markcord

Rublue be the high priest of the temple of Tundra lovers. It's all a smoke screen, I'm tellin' ya!

barlitz

doesn't the Tundra have a car engine in it that is probably why you thought it ran smoother than a real truck. Good luck on this one now!

bigsnag

Doesn't the Chevy have a Corvette (car) engine in it? Good luck on this one now.

cwirth

Again, with the head gasket problem. Geez, one major problem and the GM lovers won't let it drop. At least Toyota repaired them at no charge. GM would have said something like 'that's normal'.

Also the union made issue has been beat to death. Since I don't care for unions I am glad the Tundra is not union made. If unions were involved we would have to add more money to the price.

cwirth

Make that "Toyota Head Gaskets". I am sure they learned their less from the Tacoma.

barlitz

That is probably why Toyota hires nonunion people to build there trucks if they had to pay uaw wages you'd be paying $40000 for one,by the way my F250 4x4 xlt 4door supercab was uaw built and cheaper than your nonunion Tundra. Good luck on this one now!

Rocles

There is only a few problems to your assertion that the picture you displayed was a real truck.
It's missing a blue oval in front for starters.......;)




PS: Gee, How does Rubey figure out all those yuppie gadgets like scanners and computers??? LOL!

bigsnag

He's mighty savvy on computer stuff for an old geezer. I kinda like the guy, myself. Not much BS coming from him, that's for sure. "Good luck on this one now".

devil1

I am going to buy a pickup truck later this year. My options are: FORD, CHEVY, DODGE, and TOYOTA. I have a baby boy so I need a backseat, so the compacts are out.
I kicked out the Dodge immediately after looking at consumer reports giving it the worst reliability review possible. The Chevy has a nice extra cab, but is too ugly for my taste. The Ford is one of the best. The two wheel drive got above average reliability, and the four wheel drive got average. Reliability is a big deal to me because I have had problems with my Mitsubishi and my Pontiac previously. The Ford is big (too big), very handsome, and priced good for what you get. I like the looks just a bit better than the Tundra, but I like the size of the Tundra better. I drove a Ford standard cab longbed and couldn't park the darn thing. I guess I'm just not used to driving a big rig. I have yet to drive the Tundra, but it looks like the perfect size. The backseat is a bit tight, but good enough for my baby and when he gets older. It's very handsome looking (especially in black), and kciks some butt under the hood. Reliability will be no problem being a Toyota. The only thing I didn't like was the 14mpg city.

The big advantages of Toyota Vs. any domestic full size truck:

- 4 Doors standard (much easier to access)
- Better standard engine (leads to 0-60 times of 8.0)
- Reliability reputation is perfect
- A bit smaller than the domestics making it not such a big piece of sheetmetal. Easier to maneuver. The front seats are perfect!

It seems the domestics just make them as big as possible. ie: Suburban, Expedition, EXCURSION.

Bigger isn't always better, and the Tundra proves that. It's the perfect sized Truck (A compact full size truck!)

Better luck on this one now!

2drive

If you are looking for something a bit smaller than the full-size domestics (about the size of the Tundra), before you put your money down, be sure to check out the Dakota (recommended by Consumer Reports).

Considering the Dakota Quad Cab compact full size truck, with 0-60 times of 7.5, Car and Driver had this to say about the Dakota: "After driving a number of Dakotas, we concluded that in terms of ride, handling, and general driver comfort, this is arguably the BEST pickup on the market of ANY size, as well as one of the best looking".

And you get a roomier back seat!

bigsnag

The times on the full-size trucks may be a little confusing. The biggest thing to consider is, the Tundra's are all being tested with the 3.92 rear end. This is not a very equal test, since the Chevy's and Ford's tested against it usually have the 3.55's at most. Let alone the fact that the Tundra's are lighter. Put a set of 3.55's in it and it will NOT win. Some of the commercials they have put out are misleading too. "The Tundra can out tow any other truck." Yeah, if your talking about Chevy and Ford's small engines with high gears. That's what all of the fine print at the bottom says. Read it sometime. Try to out tow a 5.3 or 5.4 with 3.73's, not even 3.92's and the Toy will get smoked. BTW, I like Toyota and have supported them on several posts, but facts are facts. Aint it Rube?

tracyo

When you start talking about real trucks and the facts, those guys that think the al mighty tundra kind of tuck tail and run! Thats how it is also when you pull up beside one of those almighty tundras in your Ford F250 superduty cc, psd, the driver of that tundra just kinda looks foward with that tail tucked. And I don't think any of you boys would argue over my psd being a car engine. Thanks for pics rublueto, made my morning. You tundra boys could have a real truck for the money your spending. Live and learn. Good luck on this one now! Just my opinion.

tp4unc

Don't make me come up to Boston and bury you in the "Big Dig"! LOL

andy_jordan

I am not going to knock your truck choice, but bear in mind that your baby boy will soon grow, and it won't take long before he complains about lack of space in the back of the Tundra. Now I am not suggesting that you shouldn't buy it because of that, but I believe that only S10 and Ranger have less back seat room (maybe Frontier).

smcpherr

You need a car seat for your kid, right? When you do test drive the Tundra, take your car seat with you and stick it in the back seat and make sure it fits. I think it would be tough to put a car seat in any truck, so make sure you can do it in the Tundra. Also, don't necessarily rule anything out based on CRs reliability index. They are based on vehicles made in the past, and all vehicles today are made with very high reliability. Remember also, Domestics sell a lot of vehicles to fleets and rental companies. When was the last time you saw a rental that was well taken care of? Those vehicles are included in reliability reports and will tend to lower the index of a more reliable vehicle. Bottom line, get what you want and like, take care of it and with a bit of luck it will last forever, no matter who made it. If you do choose the Tundra, BOL and hope you like it!

pcheng

FYI: Check topic #1536 'Child car seats and Pickups', or shoot me an e-mail through my profile.

quadrunner500

Nice try on that engine vibration! Drove a Tundra myself this weekend, from Goblin Valley State Park, 40 miles to Green River Utah, all the way up to the 105 mph speed limiter. Took pictures too. Also had fun doing impromptu side by side drag races with my Silverado, carrying two motorcycles in the bed. You may be shocked, but I'm leaving you in suspense until I get the pictures downloaded from the digital camera, and will post them here. The owner of the Tundra sure was, since he thought the Silverado had 32 valves...hehe.....later.

tp4unc

No suspense here. I KNOW for a fact a stock 99 Silverado with either V8 will NOT beat a Tundra in a drag race. Absolutely, positively NO way.

On another note:
Sorry to hear about Derrick Thomas. That news truly sucks.

scape2

None of you Tundra fanatics have explained to me how the Tundra can be claimed so reliable beings its only been out about a year now??? There is NO DATA, take a look at all the people having vibration problems, transmission problems, brake problems just here at Edmunds. Show me, link me to the site that claims and shows the Tundra is more reliable than a Ford/Chevy/or Dodge. You can't, because there IS NO DATA. The truck is still too new. This is all based on bias, stigma, and bull...!
And as for as engines. The Tundra V8 is the same V8 put in the Lexus. Anyone with any brains will look at the Torque/HP curves and see the Tundra's torque band is not as good as the Silverado. TORQUE and HP curves are what make a truck a truck not a car.

mviglianco1

If the v8 comes from the Lexus then there is your relliability right there.

barlitz

It was getting quiet on this site I had to stir the pot up a little,by the way you can check out the big dig online its updated daily. www.bigdig.com

bigsnag

Name one source that actually ran the Tundra against a Ford/Chevy with 3.73 or lower gears. If you can, it will show the Ford or Chevy is faster. From everything I have read, the Tundra will barely edge out the Ford (less than 1/10th of a second), when the Ford has 3.55's and the Tundra has 3.92's. That's a HUGE difference. Slap 3.92's in Ford or Chevy and the Tundra WILL get smoked!!!

tp4unc

I checked that site out a few months ago. That is an amazing undertaking. I may have to head north to see it in person. I'll arrived armed in case I have to fend off some Union workers. LOL

Bigsnag,
Unlike alot of you guys that LIVE off of magazine articles, I personally raced my friends(and two strangers) in their Silverados. I don't have any idea what gear ratios they have nor do I care. I won and that's really all that matters. By the way I NEVER said one word about Ford.
Keep on modifying errrrrrr trucking!

bigsnag

I guess if that is all you care about then great. If you smoked 'em, you smoked 'em. I used to out run a lot of guys in my '62 Chevy with a 235. We raced stoplight to stop light. Of course they didn't know I would top out at about 75 mph @ 6000 RPM's. Of course their trucks/cars could out perform my truck in every other aspect and could have in those races, too, if they would have had gears anywhere near mine. I for one am not impressed with Chevy's new engine line. If I owned one, I'd be like the '99 Cobra owners, crying for a "fix", to get my hp up to their claims. Ever see a sheet on one of these new Chevy motors getting dyno'ed (by someone other than Chevy)? It is not impressive. At all!!