Tundra vs. Big 3

arkie6

GM has also partnered with Toyota on the Prizm, which is essentially a Corolla. And Suzuki also I think on one of the small SUVs. BLD3, where did you get your info that Honda and Subaru have higher reliability ratings than Toyota?

fossie

I’ve heard all the hype I can stand about these new Toyota Tundra pickups. I test drove one recently. You call that the best full size truck on the market?? Please!! It felt like a yuppied up T100 and the salesman was bragging to me it has major drivetrain parts from the compact Tacoma. Was that supposed to impress me?? They should have just called it a Tundracoma T100. I’ve heard all about how many awards this new little peewee truck has won. I couldn’t care less that it was named “Golf Magazines 4x4 of the year”, or that it was voted the “official 4x4 of the Girl Scouts”. To be the best full sized pickup it needs to also be able to handle heavy work as well. If that’s a “full size” truck, then the Yugo should’ve been classified as a sport utility vehicle! Please! I’ve seen Station Wagon’s with wood panel siding that had a tougher, more rugged look than these new Tundras. Ya, I admit it, its got a good peppy powerplant. I’m sure it’ll do an awesome job of hauling a couple of flats of Daisys from the hardware store back to Bellaire. And I'm sure it’ll easily torque its way up steep hills even when loaded down with two golf bags and a tennis racquet on the way from the tea room to the country club. And as for this 60k mile warranty crap, "tmwilkinson1" stated on entry #401 “It is called putting your money where your mouth is”. Please. Its called putting YOUR money where THEIR mouth is! That additional warranty sure as hell didn’t come free. The cost of that 60k mile warranty may not be listed on the overpriced sticker, but believe me you paid for it. Just like I paid for my 36 thousand mile warranty when I bought mine. That’s why it costs 25-30k for a “mid size” 4x4 truck that can’t carry humans in the back seat, isn't designed for any real work and looks like a Tonka Toy when its sitting next to one of the big3. The odds of getting a bad product from Toyota or the big3 is very small anyway, so I think this whole reliability thing is overblown. I'm sure there's a place in the market for this new Toyota, but it sure aint with the big3. But, you Tundracoma T100 owners who paid nearly 30k for a “mid sized” 4x4 truck made from compact truck driveline parts keep on slappin’ each other on the [non-permissible content removed] and telling each other how much smarter you are than the big3 owners. While you’re doing that, I’ll keep on using and abusing my 95 Ram Sport 4x4 with 157 thousand problem free miles on it!

arkie6

Enough already! What a long winded post above.

You need to enter that Dodge with a 157,000 problem free miles into the Guinness Book of World Records.

trucksrme

Bout time we got us some folk speakin the plain truth on them limited ones. Blowin that factory smoke right out of folks eyes, letin em see that plain truth on them tundras now. Keep it up now! Good luck on this one now!

trucksrme

Good luck on this one now!

Rocles

Those bowtie boys sure make pretty ones.......

pcheng

The engine in the Camry is very different than the 22R engine. I have a 98 Camry with a 4 cyl. I'm not a impressed with that engine as the 22R.

Toyota makes a lot of different 4 cyl. It depends on the application, and where in the world the engine will be used.

I'm sure someone out there has had a head gasket go on a 22R, but I haven't seen it yet.

trucksrme

ok. Good luck on this one now!

trucksrme

Got this tell off that tundra solutions site folks here been bragin on:

Vibrations - attributed to early production tire and wheel combinations, and still an issue; transmission - harsh shifting; paint quality/durability; poor visibility from factory adjusted low beams; "thunk" noise from driveline; center console vibration; excessive door panel wear; door latching mechanism - adjustment issues; dash rattles - stereo with the 6 disc changer; factory horns less than adequate; noisy brake pedal; rear seating position.

Guessin I be missin somethin on that superior dependability now. Folks be payin extra to get these features? Hate too think what them ones be like if folks start workin em. Good luck on this one now!

lemonjeep2

Quote "Here be the one with the haul in it". (looks like the picture was taken at the Chevy dealership where he works, thus regular access to post on the net). Sure is a pretty truck.

I agree that they haul. I see them on the roads here in LA mostly with poser drivers hauling a bumpersticker that says "My Child Was Student of the Month at XYZ School". Hmmm, does this make Chevy owners the 'yuppies' that he claims Tundra owners are? Occasionally they are used to haul the shopping bags home from a rough day of shopping at Nordstroms.

Everyone has a different use for their truck, and that's their choise because it's their money.

fossie

Sounds like trucksrme "dun offended him some yuppie Tundra owners". They get that way since they just got duped by the Toyota wizbangs into paying $30K for a glorified midsized pickup that's loaded with compact pickup driveline parts, has drive vibrations, "shifts harshly", has doors that open by themselves, a vibrating center console, a rattling dash, a horn that sucks, a noisy brake pedal, a rear seat that I couldn't fit my tackle box in, and a "thunk" in the driveline. No doubt that sounds like a truck built with some "superior dependability". I'd sure like to borrow one of them "superior" Tundras and put it to some real "workin" so I could hear that little peewee rear differential scream like a baby & hear that driveline pop like a rubber band! Look like that "one with some haul in it" could drag 4 or 5 of them Tundras at a time back to the repair shop!

eharri3

im stayin outta this one

trucksrme

Got me too knee slapin quick for sure. Ya be right on bout them yuppies, they get them feelins hurt quick now. One thing the yuppie be hatin is pointin it out to em. Yuppies, they sure cant be learned much of nothin now. Good luck on this one now!

fossie

Sounds like them yuppies been usin’ that new math on them Tundras. Compact drivetrain + compact truck suspension + car engine + midsize truck body + Tokyo reliability myth = 30,000 dollars. Accordin to my redneck American calculator, that only comes up to about $14,900. Sure hope them yuppie Tundra owners don’t get their feelings hurt as easily as I’ve heard, cause I might be steppin’ all over their pretty little toes with my dirty boots when it comes to this “full size” Tundra crap.

tundrasaursrex

Motor Trend/Truck Trend...Full Size Truck of the Year

4-wheel & off-road Mag......4x4 of the Year

Consumer Report...Top Pick Full Size Pickups


So enough of your whining....

rooster9

Fossie, are you like trucksrme's brother or something?

That quote that trucksrme found is a post about all of the concerns that have been found on the Tundra's. A Tundra owner was chosen by Toyota and Toyota's engineers are gonna drive his truck to see how it is doing. He is gonna bring up those concerns with the engineers.

So there you have it, something blown out of proportion is now how it should be. Good luck on this one now!

trucksrme

Ya paid a 25% premium on that little truck with mini drivetrain parts, all for that "superiour quality", and that be what ya got? Ha! Good luck on that one now!

redsilverado

'a der' a' yah' all have a language dictionary
thet 'a wee coood geet a coppi of.

...REeeed

rooster9

I don't own a truck right now, I'm still in the process of deciding what one I want. What ya be sayin about the Limited ones is not being making me like Silverados more.

obyone

don't think that matters to truckrme...rather as long as you don't buy a Toyota.

swobig

I wouldn't take what Motor Trend, Car & Driver, etc., etc., for their opinion. They seem to like whatever is newest and test these trucks for less than a week. I believe what these guys are trying to say is $30K will buy you more in a Chevy, Ford, or even Dodge. I don't doubt it's a good truck for light duty use, but I don't think it's up to the others standards yet. But at least they offer a V-8 this time...

fossie

Why is it when one of you yuppie do-gooder' tokyo worshipin Tundra whisle blowers say something negative bout the big 3 trucks thats just fine, but when I simply point out a "disadvantage 'er two" about your little tonka toy, you boys get all bent out of shape. I read this sight for a while just to see what all that Tundra hype was about, but frankly I got sick & tired of hearing how smart you yuppie do-gooders think you are. Quoting your "of the year" and "best buy" facts and figures right out of magazines written by a bunch of tofu eatin preppies, and puttin down the quality of those big3 rigs. I finally got plum fed up with reading it and decided its time to strap on my cowboy boots & start stompin some yuppie do-gooder' toes to defend them big3 trucks. One thing that ain’t changed in the midst of all this “full size Tundra” BS, is if you want a big, rough, tough pickup that can handle some “workin”, then its gonna have a goat on the hood, a blue oval on the tailgate or a bowtie on the front grill! Y’all take care!

trucksrme

Not be expectin the soft-handed yuppie like ya too be understandin much of nothin now. Just keep on back slappin ya-self for bein so smart now, and keep on reachin for them shiny new things too. Makes none the difference if ya be understandin a workin man now or not, aint got the time too be learnin no yuppie nothin for sure. Good luck on this one now!

tundrasaursrex

Okay Bubba, Early this week a buddy of mine took his no-hauling '97 GMC 1/2 ton Pickup to eastern Washington (where all the farmings done) Seems his transmission went south on him in Moses Lake. Cost him 1800 bucks (out of warranty with 78,000 miles on it). The mechanic of this GM dealer in this small town says they see about 2-3 fairly new GMC/Chevs with shot transmissions per week. He said "the '92 and later 1/2 ton transmissions are a real piece of crap, and GM knows it. But they're not doing anything about it".

My friend called GM Customer Service they said tough luck.

Great way to stand behind your product. After being a GM family since the 50's he said never again. He's a good guy and deserves a good truck backed by a good company, And GM sure isn't it.


So my question is, hows the haul on the GM when it's in the shop for a new transmission?

I guess instead of calling them GM pick-ups, they ought to call them drop-offs, or maybe Tow-ins.......LOL

swobig

everyone has a story how the others truck broke this or that and everyone also has a story of how their truck went 500,000 miles towing 10,000 lbs., uphill bothways. I think the number speak out to this more than anything. GM sells many times more trucks than Toyota, but if Toyota has truly made a superior truck, people will buy it in favor of the Ford, GM, Dodge, etc. I just don't think they quite got it yet...

trucksrme

Yep, my cousin Jimmy Joe got this friend who has this Uncle, whos cousins tundra crapped out just like that one. Heard this for sure, so must be the fact now. Yep, hearin them things all the time for sure. Course we got us this 52 Chevy on that farm that still be goin strong now. Good luck on this one now!

tundrasaursrex

you never answered my question....How much haul in that GM thats in the shop???

I guess you think it's better to stick your head in the sand and ignore the facts. And discount anything you read and don't like as a "story". But Mike B. is out $1800, and I bet he wishes it were a story!!!

As for your '52, they must have built them alot better back then. My advice, hang onto it and don't get a new one

(even though that '52 is smaller than my mid-size, and don't have near the 'haul')

swobig

in any broken down truck - even a Tundra. I applaud you faith in such a new product. Your story is weak - one failure and many still on the road. GM makes good trucks - everyone makes a lemon now and then. Let's talk about facts though - for roughly the same price as a Toyota I could buy a Chevy or Ford that has more power, is bigger, is proven, and has more "haul" in it. Why would anyone buy one of these???

redsilverado

about that '52 Chevy you have in your possesion.
can you please answer a question for my friends
and myself. ok here goes, if you and your wife
got a divorce would you all still be brother and
sister and keep the '52, or would you all disown
each other and put the '52 up for public auction?

tundrasaursrex

More haul is pretty vague and subjective. But I respect your opinion.

I only mentioned my friends situation because I find it ironic Trucksrme slams the Tundra and says how awesome the Chevs are and lo-and-behold I get the horror stories first hand from a friend (and what his mechanic says).

Of course I wish it hadn't of happened to my friend, or anyone. I Just found it ironic, and had to let my buddy Goober know.

trucksrme

What part of "aint got no time too be learnin the yuppie" aint ya understandin now Red? Ya be the smart one so figure this one here out:

1999/Toyota + 2000/Chevy + 2001/New Shiny = ?

What that be addin up too? Yuppie! Who be this yuppie? Red! Endin of todays yuppie lessin. Good luck on this one.

trucksrme

Look to #447 for that answer now Red. Ya be claimin too be that smart yuppie, so here be ya next yuppie lessin now:

2001/Shine + Red = ?

That answer be Reds dream car now, a Corveete. Good luck on this one now!

Rocles

Problem here is that the debate is between two unproven trucks-Chevy and Toyota. LOL!

Be smart=buy Ford.

rangerknowhow

Ford...i dont get all the arguments about FORDvsCHEVYvsDODGEvsTOYOTA. But I am good at them. I dont just prove that Ford is Better blindly, i do my reasearch. HAVE YOU DRIVEN A FORD LATELY?

swobig

come on Roc you can do better than that. Edmunds had a few bad things to say about them - engines not up to par with what Chevy offers, controls dated and I think they have a point. But it still is a good truck - they sell a ton of them.

Tundrasaurus, I get your point, sometimes it's just better to not talk to some of these people cause they just don't have anything worth responding to...

bigsnag

I guess I don't buy the fact that Ford's engine's aren't up to par with Chevy. I even emailed Edmunds and asked their editors to defend what they said with some actual numbers. No response. As far as what I have experienced AND read (and I have read everything I could find) if any tests are done with evenly matched trucks, e.g. 5.4 vs. 5.3 with the same rear end gear, then the Ford invariably wins. The only time I have found any article that says the Chevy is more powerful, quicker, or whatever, is when the Chevy had a distinct advantage in gearing (latest Motor Trend is an example), other than that it is just some writer giving his opinion with no numbers to back it up. I, personally, don't rely on some writer's "seat-o-the-pants-o-meter".

cdean

Bamatundra,
I wish they would go back in the closet.

redsilverado

how's it going. never did ask, but which truck do

you own at this time?

...RED

swobig

about 3/4 ton trucks. Everything I've read indicates the 6.0L handly out pulls the 6.8L Ford. V-10 vs. V-8 from several different sources. I think the 5.3L and 5.4L are pretty evenly matched. I've driven both and prefer the 5.3L for gas mileage. I don't care what you say, gas mileage is a factor weather you own one or one hundred. Pulling would probably give a edge to the Ford, but day to day would give the edge to GM. The 4.6L vs. 4.8L I think GM wins hands down. Much more horsepower - again I've driven both and the 4.8L is just stronger, although I haven't seen any comparisons. 4.2L vs. 4.3L I also think the 4.3L GM wins, the 4.2L runs out of wind real fast and the 4.3L seems to have more in reserve. I've again driven both, but neither one is very impressive. Ford easily wins the diesel contest, but the Duramax should make it interesting if what I read is true. Maybe your opinion is different, but my opionion mirrors what others have wrote (for the most part). BTW, I own a Y2K Ext. Cab Chevy Silverado LT 4X4. Looked at Fords real hard, but gas mileage and interior turned my off (kinda what edmunds said). I really wouldn't expect edmunds to respond to your email considering how many the probably get...

swobig

in pickuptruck.com about the F-150 and they said the same thing about the 4.6L engine. They said they liked the interior of the Ford, which is ok in my book, but I like the Chevy interior a little better. But, I don't take sides or pledge any loyalty to any of them. I happen to think the GM is the best deal out there right now followed by Ford, then Dodge, then Toyota. But, that can change quickly. Hopefully the 2002 Dodge's will make up some ground on Ford and GM...

bigsnag

About the 6.8 vs. the 6.0, I have seen several sources that pitted them against each other as well. It was the same old thing. If they were equally matched, the Ford won, even worse when pulling a load. All of these were even before the V-10 got its hp boost. The new 6.8's should beat the 6.0 even worse. If the 6.0 has the 6.8's number, then why would Chevy admit that they are coming out with the 8.1 as competition for the 6.8?
As far as mileage goes, I have to agree with you. It is ALWAYS a concern. And I think Chevy has the upper hand, but not by much. I have had personal experience with speedo's and odometer's being off by around 10% in Chevy's. There have even been numerous reports by other Chevy guys about it, on this site and others. If the speedo is off by only 5% (3 mph at 60) it will make you think you get about 1 mpg better than you actually do.

Rocles

rangerknowhow and swobig,

It's called a "joke". I didn't think I'd be taken so seriously.....just thought it could break up the stupid Tundra "ain't trucks" and Chevy "sucks" banter.

tundrasaursrex

Nice shot on post 457

superjim2000

Since when is a bigger V10 vs V8 fair? So Chevy is bringing out a bigger V8, I guess Chevy wants to be king of the hill.

bigsnag

Well, it's really not fair. But as for now it was the biggest gas engines that each had to offer. The 454 is dead. As far as that goes, the new 8.1 vs. the 6.8 won't be fair either, but it looks like that is all Ford will have. I was simply replying to people who were making blanket statements about Chevy engine's being superior and I was also replying directly to Swobig, who said he thought the 6.0 was superior to the 6.8. If I know marketing like I think I do, I wouldn't bet on the 8.1 blowing the 6.8 away. It will probably outdo it until Ford comes up with a little better, then Chevy will bump it up. It's called incrementalism.

swobig

shows the 6.8L beating the 6.0L. I've seen several reports showing the opposite results you have with similar equiped vehicles. Just a few months ago on TV (Car & Driver) showed this. But, I agree about the fairness of a V-8 vs. V-10. I don't like GM's idea of a 8.1L V-8. It's too big. Seems like everything is getting smaller more powerful, but this is a step in the wrong direction. It would probably be comparable to Dodge's V-10, but not the 6.8L. I don't understand it...

bigsnag

I heard about that TV show. I never got to see it. Did they say what the rear end gears were?
As far as the Dodge V-10, Truck Trend (you can see it online) and some show on TV (I can't remember what it was) showed that the Ford V-10 outran it. They were all thoroughly impressed with the Ford, wining despite a huge disadvantage in cubes.

barlitz

Ford is changing there 5.4 2 valve 260hp to a 5.4 3 valve 305hp in 2002 in all the F series trucks, along with a V6 245hp 400lbs tourque deisel engine in 2003 available in the F series, both engines will feature a new transmission.

superjim2000

I think the reason for the 8.1 is its a brand new design and with all those cubes......496, the name of the game is torque, 460 ft lbs is what I heard. I think its for people who dont want or like diesels.

swobig

I don't doubt Ford's V-10 walks all over it. I like the design of Ford's V-10 - 6.8L, but for Chevy to make a 8.1L V-8 is just silly in my opinion. To jump from a 6.0L to a 8.1L is way to far. I would think a 7L or somewhere in that range would have been logical (V-8 or V-10 bring back the 427). I can understand wanting torque, but geeze, biggest isn't always best...