I wanted to get my wife the B9 but she said wait a year and then I could get one!!! What a wife. I tried to talk into the Legacy Outback but she like the OBS.
The nose of the B9 is not as bad in person as I thought it would be. When we see the Infiniti FX-45 we say "here comes the ugly truck" and were getting ready to call the B9 "UT-2" but it is not that bad. However, like the Audi this is going to become the new face of Subaru. It will be a hard sell.
Varmit, for our hounds a Van is really the way to go. No jumping up or down to get into or out of.
IMO the best might be the Forester LL Bean edition, because:
* durable cargo area, similar to the Element * factory dog guard/partition * bumper step guard * big views * 4 tie-downs for the harnesses * low step-in height for elderly dogs
Tribeca gives up the big views with smaller windows, and it's more plush but less durable, so you'd at least need a liner. The step-in height is also higher up, so dogs have to jump higher, an issue for older dogs.
Bob - show that proposed STi grille with the black mesh insert.
I think those grille inserts are a huge improvement over the chrome horizontal strips (I *hate* chrome), as are the painted fender flares. Some of it is a bit much but while an STi version is unlikely, some of those accessories might be offered.
One of the reasons I bought a Forester L instead of an S model back in 1998 is because I hated the chrome grille on the S.
Subaru over time typically offers 7-8 different grilles for any given model so I'm sure the Tribeca will get other options sooner rather than later. But hopefully not that chrome one, too bling-bling for me. In fact I think the package also included chrome wheels (yuck).
I've got a mint '96 Volvo sedan that I'm planning to put in storage for the winter. I'm attempting to find a late-model sedan with more-than-average miles (so I can buy cheap) so that I have something to get around in when the snow comes. My dad's debating whether to get a '98 Impreza L sedan (89k miles) or a '98 Mazda Protege(93k). Both are privately owned in my neighborhood, and both are automatic. Your thoughts/comments?
The FX35 is like a an over-sized hatchback. I like the styling details, but not the shape or lack of utility. Can't understand the BMW X5 or X3 for the same reason (lack of utility).
A van is the way to go, but I just can't picture myself buying something that big. I wouldn't buy a Pilot or Explorer for the same reason. The Tribeca is a decent size, but the cargo area is a bit narrow. Plus it has several large gaps between the panels of the cargo floor, and I can see the dogs getting their long nails (a greyhound thing) stuck in there. Something like an Outback, Highlander, or used MDX is probably in the works.
Bob - Even if you could sell me on the Tribeca's looks, you'd never get it past Mrs. Varmint.
I think Chrysler has laid claim to all the chrome produced for the North American market. Instead designers are replacing it with the faux metal we see all over cars today. Unfortunately, the Tribeca followed that crowd (really my only complaint with the interior).
I was happy when I found Subaru using a much more natural wood-like accent in some of the Outbacks. I'm not sure which models use it, but they offer a wood surface that doesn't look like it was slathered with 50 coats of hard varnish. It's something I'd have liked to see Subaru continue with.
MDX doesn't "feel" as big as the Pilot, even though several dimensions are similar. It has to do with the way the suspension is tuned. Based on reviews, the suspension in the Tribeca is another trait I probably would like.
If that is the case... then I'd look at the Highlander... Not only does it "feel" smaller than the Pilot, I think it is definitely narrower in reality...
I like the Pilot, but I don't want a vehicle as wide as an Odyssey, either...
the boys did a pretty good job setting him straight. No casue for alarm, return to your homes people.
As to dogs, friends of ours have agen 1 Forester and 2 large yellow labs. They manage to fit in the back, and actually have plenty of room with the back seat down. Kinda cramped with the rear seat up, but that is 150+ pounds of mutt.
Grayhounds might be tall, but at least they are thin, so you can stack up a lot of them!
Juice or Bob, what are your contacts saying about B9 sales? Are they hitting the ground running, or what? I have only seen one, but it had manu plates (I live near SOA headquarters).
We gotta see June sales, that would be the first full month. Even then there wasn't a steady supply yet. Most of the pre-orders are starting to come in around now.
Probably didn't help that the Rendezvous could be bought for approximately twelve bucks at the GM employee price. LOL
Do not know about any place else but at the Subaru dealer in Tysons corner they had a board up with the ones that had arrived (about 20) and half said "sold" on them.
I caught the link that showed the picture of the mesh grill and that is indeed much better. In fact, I saw a 300C with an aftermarket mesh grill and it looked good. Same with the Ford 500. The R Type S jag has the same thing. It seems the mesh makes any car look better.
I haven't seen any offical figures yet, but I've been to several dealers in my area, and according to the sales people they are selling. Are they selling as hoped for, I don't know?
According to Joe over at cars101.com, B9 Tribeca sales have been decent (not hot, not cold) with most purchases so far to folks who keep up on Subaru news. He thought sales have been appropriate, both in buyer demographics and in numbers sold, since there has been no advertising yet.
My dealer (Carter Subaru in Seattle) has 18 in stock with all four models available, every color available, so if you're willing to look around, I think the inventory is out there. Range is the gamut, from $31,810 MSRP Satin White base 5-pass w/a couple options to $39,533 MSRP Mahogany/Beige Ltd Nav/DVD loaded up with wheel locks, puddle lights, auto-dimming mirror, security shock sensor, cargo net/tray/cover, all-weather mats, bumper cover, front bumper underguard, and crossbars.
I misread 5grey's post. (I think that's the second time I've mixed up an Outback and Outback Sport by reading too fast.) The OBS is wayyyy too small.
I'm still considering the Outback. The cargo space is decent when compared with the Highlander, but the OB handles better and gets better mileage. In the HL's favor, there's the higher and roomier backseat (making baby seats and guests easier to manage).
Both are tighter in the cargo area than I would like. In fact, with the 2nd gen CR-V, I can slide the rear seat forward and get the same cargo space with flexibility for guest seating.
Getting back on track... carving out generous cargo space is something that Subaru does very well with the vehicles they offer here in North America. I think one of the things that hurts them is the fact that the vehicles don't *look* like they can carry that much. And having a relatively cramped back seat adds to that illusion.
The best part about the Tribeca is that it offers the space in the important seats as well as cargo capacity. And the exterior makes it seem plausible. Hopefully those attributes will be added to future products.
In some states you can get a PZEV Outback, that would be the ticket. You give up a couple of horses but they still get 22/28 mpg and emit basically no more pollutants that it would take to charge a fully electric vehicle.
Another advantage is the longer warranty on any emissions related items, so more things are covered under warranty.
that is the number of sales as of 6-30-05 for Subaru, up 5.8% from the 88,227 figure Subaru had achieved on the same date last year. If they are lucky, they may make the 200K mark this year, but that will mean selling a good 15K Tribecas by the end of the year.
GM had record sales in June, heck EVERYBODY except BMW, VW, and Isuzu had record sales in June. GM was up 46%! Overall, the industry was up 15.9%, while Subaru was up 10.7%, over June 2004.
The 250K annual sales mark they were looking five years ago to achieve may well wait for the end of the decade and beyond.
No Tribecas on the roads around me yet - that silver one sits there every day on the dealer's promo stand though.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Subaru has always made somewhat "weird" looking vehicles. The new Tribeca is downright ugly. I don't think I'd drive one if you gave it to me. The new STI looks terrible as well. It was tolerable before, but that new grill looks like like you puked up an Alfa Romeo.
The Legacy and Outback are 2 of Subaru's better looking vehicles. Subaru has some really nice engines and the AWD has always been a big selling point.
But styling team @ Subaru should be fired. They've had 30 plus years in the marketplace, but every new car seems to be weirder and even uglier than the one before.
And that's no coincidence right? Isn't the guy who used to design Alfas now designing for Sube? He must be a one-trick pony. I DO see how the new Subie face is reminiscent of the company's aeronautic history, I just don't think it makes a good look for the front of a car.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Your right the Tribeca is something else years ago I thought the Foresters were BOXY and UGLY but since 2003 they have came leaps and bounds. Of course I have always purchased QUALITY first and LOOKS second I guess thats why I dont buy American or European my .02 worth.. Thanks
I completely agree. I saw a Tribeca on the road the other day. It isn't just ugly, it actually looks top-heavy - moreso than in photos. Subaru boasts that the boxer design creates a lower centre of gravity across the brand lineup - so why did they create a body style that works against this?
Sube engines, drivetrains and overall quality are terrific. Styling sucks. The so-called Alfa grille is ugly, busy and poorly-executed. The new Imprezas and the Tribeca look like Edsels.
1540 is a slow start, but the Baja never sold that many even at its peak. Plus they haven't started national advertising yet (the question is why?). I've seen almost no ads at all, and I look for them.
The other models are doing fine. GM of course stole market share, but I predict their share will crash even harder if and when these incentives stop. Honestly I don't think they could bounce prices back up.
Ford and Chrysler are supposed to join the bandwagon, and that might mean bargain hunters are captured by those. Now Subaru's upscale move might seem kinda smart, if you think about it.
How is the Tribeca top heavy, though? The center of gravity is some 3 inches lower than an X5, the segment's leader in handling. And it has a small greenhouse on top of a wide body. I almost think it's the opposite - bottom heavy.
By the way, that 250k was from when the old CEO was on crack. )
The new goal for 2005 is 208k sales, and it looks like it'll be down to the wire. National advertising for the Tribeca starts July 11 and that should help pick up the pace.
I think they meant the Tribeca looks too tall and skinny for its width, which does make it look a little top-heavy, I agree. Now if its COG is really lower than the BMW's, then it is just an optical illusion, which is good. It seems to "borrow" a lot from the Murano (or is it the FX?) at the back and along the rear quarters.
To make 208K this year, they would have to sell 115K for the second half, so Tribeca would have to make 22K sales in six months and all the other models would have to maintain their pace. I wasn't aware they had publicly decided that 208K was their new goal, but if so, that won't just be down to the wire, that will be a serious REACH.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I believe it's wider and longer than a Highlander. And it's not that tall...
It does have that curved D-pillar like the Murano, but the overall shape is closer to a Porsche Cayenne, even the headlights above the grills that so many folks dislike.
The 208k number came from one of the mags, Autoweek IIRC. But you know how it is, one exec quotes one number and another says something else.
I don't think we can expect Subaru to match the gains of the Big 3 with their newest incentives plans. Making something like a 2 or 3% gain is breaking even against a more typical measure. Anything more than that is a gain.
Having said that, I'm beginning to doubt that Subaru will make even the most recent sales predictions.
> I dare you to cross this line. Okay, cross this line! Alright, now cross this line!!
They'll get there eventually, but not in the time frame(s) they keep putting in their press releases.
Juice - The brilliant part of GM's move with their employee pricing is that it really doesn't cost them much more than the old incentives. GM hasn't raised incentives. They've just made them easy to understand.
good point. People here have been harping on the domestics to use realistic prices, and stop the rebate merry go round. Employee pricing sorta does this, in that GM admits what the cars are actually "worth", instead of the wink wink nudge nudge MSRP.
Plus, they finally proved that fixed, no haggle pricing can work beyond a Saturn dealership!
Dumb question, but Subaru was excluded from this program, right?
GM does not control Subaru in the manner it controls its other foreign brands. It has less of an ownership stake. You will notice that when GM lists out all its brands under the logo in TV ads, Subaru is not included.
juice: I think Subaru can safely make 200K this year, as long as Tribeca sells a few, which seems to be happening from what people are posting, although I have yet to see one. That will be an unprecedented milestone, won't it? 200K annual sales?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
Comments
The nose of the B9 is not as bad in person as I thought it would be. When we see the Infiniti FX-45 we say "here comes the ugly truck" and were getting ready to call the B9 "UT-2" but it is not that bad. However, like the Audi this is going to become the new face of Subaru. It will be a hard sell.
Varmit, for our hounds a Van is really the way to go. No jumping up or down to get into or out of.
Bob
* durable cargo area, similar to the Element
* factory dog guard/partition
* bumper step guard
* big views
* 4 tie-downs for the harnesses
* low step-in height for elderly dogs
Tribeca gives up the big views with smaller windows, and it's more plush but less durable, so you'd at least need a liner. The step-in height is also higher up, so dogs have to jump higher, an issue for older dogs.
Bob - show that proposed STi grille with the black mesh insert.
-juice
Bob
I think those grille inserts are a huge improvement over the chrome horizontal strips (I *hate* chrome), as are the painted fender flares. Some of it is a bit much but while an STi version is unlikely, some of those accessories might be offered.
-juice
Bob
One of the reasons I bought a Forester L instead of an S model back in 1998 is because I hated the chrome grille on the S.
Subaru over time typically offers 7-8 different grilles for any given model so I'm sure the Tribeca will get other options sooner rather than later. But hopefully not that chrome one, too bling-bling for me. In fact I think the package also included chrome wheels (yuck).
-juice
I've got a mint '96 Volvo sedan that I'm planning to put in storage for the winter. I'm attempting to find a late-model sedan with more-than-average miles (so I can buy cheap) so that I have something to get around in when the snow comes. My dad's debating whether to get a '98 Impreza L sedan (89k miles) or a '98 Mazda Protege(93k). Both are privately owned in my neighborhood, and both are automatic. Your thoughts/comments?
A van is the way to go, but I just can't picture myself buying something that big. I wouldn't buy a Pilot or Explorer for the same reason. The Tribeca is a decent size, but the cargo area is a bit narrow. Plus it has several large gaps between the panels of the cargo floor, and I can see the dogs getting their long nails (a greyhound thing) stuck in there. Something like an Outback, Highlander, or used MDX is probably in the works.
Bob - Even if you could sell me on the Tribeca's looks, you'd never get it past Mrs. Varmint.
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I was happy when I found Subaru using a much more natural wood-like accent in some of the Outbacks. I'm not sure which models use it, but they offer a wood surface that doesn't look like it was slathered with 50 coats of hard varnish. It's something I'd have liked to see Subaru continue with.
I like the Pilot, but I don't want a vehicle as wide as an Odyssey, either...
regards,
kyfdx
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Since you are looking for a winter car I would definitely get the Impreza, plus that 2.2l boxer is extremely reliable, better than the 2.5l.
For the 1 kid and 2 hounds - how 'bout a Mazda5? Or a Highlander Hybrid.
Honestly the Tribeca's interior is pretty plush so I'm not sure I'd call it ideal for you.
Wood - the LL Beans actually use a real wood (mahogany) steering wheel, which is nice. I prefer it or even plood over pluminum as well.
But these are things easily swapped out, in fact I did change the interior trim on my wife's '02 Legacy L.
-juice
mschmal, "Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan" #1434, 28 Jun 2005 12:30 pm
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I might be rabbit - I might.
No one but juice or bob could respond properly to remarks like that. Nobody else IMHO, has enought Subaru knowledge to do the reply justice.
-juice
As to dogs, friends of ours have agen 1 Forester and 2 large yellow labs. They manage to fit in the back, and actually have plenty of room with the back seat down. Kinda cramped with the rear seat up, but that is 150+ pounds of mutt.
Grayhounds might be tall, but at least they are thin, so you can stack up a lot of them!
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
Probably didn't help that the Rendezvous could be bought for approximately twelve bucks at the GM employee price. LOL
-juice
Dealer closest to me has zero on the lot but 1 in the showroom.
I caught the link that showed the picture of the mesh grill and that is indeed much better. In fact, I saw a 300C with an aftermarket mesh grill and it looked good. Same with the Ford 500. The R Type S jag has the same thing. It seems the mesh makes any car look better.
A lot of them are being driven around by employees, I guess.
I think I've seen a few that were actually sold to people, though.
Bob
Hog-tie her, and force her to spend 10 minutes in the driver's seat on a typical NE back country road. Problem solved.
Bob
My dealer (Carter Subaru in Seattle) has 18 in stock with all four models available, every color available, so if you're willing to look around, I think the inventory is out there. Range is the gamut, from $31,810 MSRP Satin White base 5-pass w/a couple options to $39,533 MSRP Mahogany/Beige Ltd Nav/DVD loaded up with wheel locks, puddle lights, auto-dimming mirror, security shock sensor, cargo net/tray/cover, all-weather mats, bumper cover, front bumper underguard, and crossbars.
Question is, if it doesn't cost any more, why don't they all do it? Strange, no?
varmint: check out a 9-2x Linear if you like the Outback Sport, they're in the $16s. Might actually be too cheap, i.e. below your price range.
Plus you don't have to admit that you bought a Subie. :P
-juice
I'm still considering the Outback. The cargo space is decent when compared with the Highlander, but the OB handles better and gets better mileage. In the HL's favor, there's the higher and roomier backseat (making baby seats and guests easier to manage).
Both are tighter in the cargo area than I would like. In fact, with the 2nd gen CR-V, I can slide the rear seat forward and get the same cargo space with flexibility for guest seating.
Getting back on track... carving out generous cargo space is something that Subaru does very well with the vehicles they offer here in North America. I think one of the things that hurts them is the fact that the vehicles don't *look* like they can carry that much. And having a relatively cramped back seat adds to that illusion.
The best part about the Tribeca is that it offers the space in the important seats as well as cargo capacity. And the exterior makes it seem plausible. Hopefully those attributes will be added to future products.
Another advantage is the longer warranty on any emissions related items, so more things are covered under warranty.
-juice
GM had record sales in June, heck EVERYBODY except BMW, VW, and Isuzu had record sales in June. GM was up 46%! Overall, the industry was up 15.9%, while Subaru was up 10.7%, over June 2004.
The 250K annual sales mark they were looking five years ago to achieve may well wait for the end of the decade and beyond.
No Tribecas on the roads around me yet - that silver one sits there every day on the dealer's promo stand though.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
The Legacy and Outback are 2 of Subaru's better looking vehicles. Subaru has some really nice engines and the AWD has always been a big selling point.
But styling team @ Subaru should be fired. They've had 30 plus years in the marketplace, but every new car seems to be weirder and even uglier than the one before.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
I completely agree. I saw a Tribeca on the road the other day. It isn't just ugly, it actually looks top-heavy - moreso than in photos. Subaru boasts that the boxer design creates a lower centre of gravity across the brand lineup - so why did they create a body style that works against this?
Sube engines, drivetrains and overall quality are terrific. Styling sucks. The so-called Alfa grille is ugly, busy and poorly-executed. The new Imprezas and the Tribeca look like Edsels.
The other models are doing fine. GM of course stole market share, but I predict their share will crash even harder if and when these incentives stop. Honestly I don't think they could bounce prices back up.
Ford and Chrysler are supposed to join the bandwagon, and that might mean bargain hunters are captured by those. Now Subaru's upscale move might seem kinda smart, if you think about it.
How is the Tribeca top heavy, though? The center of gravity is some 3 inches lower than an X5, the segment's leader in handling. And it has a small greenhouse on top of a wide body. I almost think it's the opposite - bottom heavy.
-juice
The new goal for 2005 is 208k sales, and it looks like it'll be down to the wire. National advertising for the Tribeca starts July 11 and that should help pick up the pace.
-juice
To make 208K this year, they would have to sell 115K for the second half, so Tribeca would have to make 22K sales in six months and all the other models would have to maintain their pace. I wasn't aware they had publicly decided that 208K was their new goal, but if so, that won't just be down to the wire, that will be a serious REACH.
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
It does have that curved D-pillar like the Murano, but the overall shape is closer to a Porsche Cayenne, even the headlights above the grills that so many folks dislike.
The 208k number came from one of the mags, Autoweek IIRC. But you know how it is, one exec quotes one number and another says something else.
-juice
Having said that, I'm beginning to doubt that Subaru will make even the most recent sales predictions.
> I dare you to cross this line. Okay, cross this line! Alright, now cross this line!!
They'll get there eventually, but not in the time frame(s) they keep putting in their press releases.
Juice - The brilliant part of GM's move with their employee pricing is that it really doesn't cost them much more than the old incentives. GM hasn't raised incentives. They've just made them easy to understand.
Plus, they finally proved that fixed, no haggle pricing can work beyond a Saturn dealership!
Dumb question, but Subaru was excluded from this program, right?
2020 Acura RDX tech SH-AWD, 2023 Maverick hybrid Lariat luxury package.
juice: I think Subaru can safely make 200K this year, as long as Tribeca sells a few, which seems to be happening from what people are posting, although I have yet to see one. That will be an unprecedented milestone, won't it? 200K annual sales?
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)
2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)