2007 Ford Edge

frizz2112

Great news on the Ford 3.5 liter. It looks like the Edge is shaping up to be a hit. This is just the kind of vehicle Ford needs to be producing right now. I think the 500 and the Fusion were strong additions overall, but the Edge looks like it might be more clearly dominant in its category, without any glaring faults or omissions like the other two vehicles arguably have. It will certainly be nice to have the conversations about the Edge upon it's release not be centered around excuses like "nobody needs more than 203 HP anyway."

The 3.5 liter V6 can't come fast enough for the rest of the Ford lineup either, especially the 500. Hopefully this is the first of many Ford engines that are at the top of their class.

gene_v

"The 3.5 liter V6 can't come fast enough for the rest of the Ford lineup either, especially the 500. Hopefully this is the first of many Ford engines that are at the top of their class."

I hope it isn't too late.

akirby

Side curtain air bags, AdvanceTrac Roll Stability Control and 4 wheel ABS will all be standard.

The Vista Roof, Navigation, fold flat front passenger seat and MP3/auxilliary input jack are also offered.

Very good news. Sounds like they learned their lesson.

cowbell

By lesson, I assume you mean from the Fusion's poor safety rating with the option side air bags.

That was a pretty tough lesson considering the Fusion seems like a pretty good car. A five star by five star rating would be very nice for the Edge.

akirby

Yes, the optional side airbags lesson plus bringing out new cars without certain features AND making some options like navigation not available on Fords.

mschmal

What makes not having Navigation available as an option really really stupid is the fact that the system fits into the same hole as the standard radio and works the second you plug in the universal wires.

I hope the person that thought up "People don't want Navigation in a Fusion" is one of the ones that gets laid off.

Mark.

holistic123

I drive a 2003 Ford Explorer Sport. I have had no problems at all, not 1. I really like the Edge and feel it would be smart to release a hybrid version from the initial release. The demand is going through the roof, just look at toyota now. Ford is on the right track with future designs, and feel they would sell tons of hybrids.

ANT14

There WILL be a Hybrid version of the Edge, it'll use next generation hybrid technology and be released in 2008.

akirby

I guess you missed the point that hybrid sales were down last month. Hybrid accord sales dropped over 60%. Speculation is that people are over the shock of high gas prices plus the press reports that EPA mileage figures are much higher than actuals, especially for hybrids.

Don't get me wrong - I think they need a hybrid but I think hybrid sales will fall back a little as the initial hype wears off.

gil369

First of all...I know salesmen aren't always reliable, but one told me today that they were going to start getting the Edge in stock in June (N. Cal.). Has anyone else heard anything similar? I know on the Ford site, it says fall, so I'm a bit skeptical of this information. I'd be very pleased, though!

mschmal

June is competely totally wrong.

Edge Job one isn't even until October and no order guide was even released yet.

This guy has no idea what he is talking about.

Most Ford 07 models are starting Job 1 in June except for Explorers Expeditions and F-150s.

Mark.

music287

On the Edge and MKX websites there is a "build and price" feature. Neither model will offer HID xenon headlights either standard or optional for 2007. The MKX site lists it as a possible "future" option. I also notice the prices nudging $40K. This is Acura territory!

I think, since apparently the launch won't be until this Fall that Ford had better rethink how it's going to position this promising vehicle! As it stands now, I'm leaning towards the similar upcoming Acura RDX.

Jay

mschmal

The MKX will have headlights that can steer around corners. Assuming this prevents them from using HIDs.

Mark.

syadasti

No VW now even has the steerable HID bi-xenon lights in their Passat...

Citroen also has HID steerable lights in their cheap C4 hatchback.

Ford is cheaping out again so they can lose more sales.

f111d

Not so sure that's learning a lessoned but caving into marketing hype. It's so sad people think have to have all unneccsary electronic toys. alias maintenance nightmare! I see it more and more on the highways people just can't drive or have no concept of what they are driving. (dynamics) Those driving vehicles with all ABS/stability/etc goodies show the largest percentage driving well over their head. They should be in public transportation.
Since no one in our once great country pays a living wage, offer a basic family sized vehicle for the working family.
If you forgot it's those families that made once made this country so strong. Now more and more driving junkers and Detroit why no ones buying new. Family sized economy vehicles can be built the technology is there for 40-47 mpg highway.

KISS

jchan2

I agree. I see a lot of working class Americans driving second hand Camrys and Accords. Those citizens could be convinced to buy new if some automaker produced an affordable, basic, and economical family sedan that could get 45 MPG without going Hybrid.

akirby

A Jetta TDI gets 35/42 mpg, yet they're not jumping off the dealer lots. If you want cheap, buy a Kia.

frizz2112

If you run the numbers and account for inflation, etc, cars are more affordable now than they ever were. There are also many more choices for consumers of all income levels. The whole idea that it's more expensive to live now than say 30 years ago is largely bunk; the difference lies in the standard of living. If you strip away all the expenses of goodies that have come about in the last few decades (computers, internet, cell phones, cable, etc.) and live at the same standard of living that you did 30 or so years ago, you'd actually find that the cost of living at that level has dropped. However, most Americans don't want to live with 3 TV channels, no cell phone, etc, so we hear lots of noise about how everything has become more expensive.

I know several people who drive second hand Accords and Camry's, but they don't do it because new cars are out of reach, they do it because it ends up being a better place to put their money, once you factor in maintenance and depreciation. Ford is on the road to improving this picture, with better vehicle quality and less emphasis on fleet sales, but it will take time.

Another myth is that Detroit has secret technology that would allow cars to get crazy mileage, but they refuse to release it for various reasons. Think about it: Gas prices are high, there is a market for high mileage vehicles. If they could make money selling 40-47 mpg vehicles, they darned well would be. The fact that those vehicles aren't available yet speaks to basic market economics; they simply can't be sold at a profit right now. As soon as that equation changes (and it will) we'll start seeing those vehicles on dealer lots.

As far as the Edge pricing goes, Ford will be slammed either way. People whine when there's not enough standard equipment, and they wine when the standard equipment brings the price up. It seems to me they're arriving at a pretty good balance between the two extremes, but opinions will vary.

pnewby

:confuse: Another factor in the mileage achievements is the ongoing quest for more power. It seems that the car buying public, and is a fact that the car reviewing press, wants power more than they want fuel economy. Automakers are putting the R & D money into increasing the power, while trying to maintain the same or slightly better MPG. Once the emphasis shifts, I would imagine the MPG improvements will be much greater.

In 1999 I bought a lincoln LS with 252 HP, and it would outrun 99.9% of the vehicles on the road. In 2006 the Edge and other smaller vehicles will have 265 HP just to stay even in the horsepower race.

froggersjc

I completely agree with the comment about power and fuel economy. Power is great, but I'd rather have more fuel economy now days. My new SUV doesn't need a 0to60 of 5 seconds, as long as it gets there within 10 I'm happy. How often to people really mash the accelerator now days anyway?

fsmmcsi

While all of us need good long and/or multiple test drives on various road surfaces, the initial reviews and other information on the competition tend to elevate the position of the Edge/MKX on my list:

The CX-7 from Ford's Mazda unit is reported by the LA times to have a rear suspension which was compromised to make it fit into the space available, while the front suspension is well-designed, making it seem to them like two men in a horse suit, although Car and Driver and Edmunds did not print any similar complaints. It lacks dual zone climate control and the leather in the seats is solid, not the much cooler in summer perforatd leather. The turbo-charged 4 requires premium fuel, does not return good mileage, and is not quick - the worst of everything.

The Santa Fe from Hyundai is heavy and has an engine which is not powerful enough for a vehicle that heavy.

The B9 Tribeca from Subaru is heavy and has a weak engine.

The Acura RDX also has a turbo-charged 4 which requires premium. I am unaware of any published test data, although Popular Mechanics reports that is rides sports-car rough. It does have an extremely good navigation system option with XM-navtraffic, dual zone climate control, a super sound system, perforated seats and so forth.

The RAV4 seems to be the best of the competitiors to the Edge. It is fast with the V6, yet returns good mileage and does not require premium, it has perforated seats and dual zone climate control, and it has excellent cargo space and other many other useful storage spaces. The 2006 models sold outside of north America offer features such as navigation and rain sensing wipers, so it would be a real surprise if Toyota does not also offer those featrues on the 2007 model sold here. Still, all of the concerns over the five speeed Toyota automatic transmission hesitation problems, although mainly found on the Avalon forum, are enough to make me be very hesitant, at least until I accumulate far more test drive data. However, the V6 4WD versions are very rare, and the Toyota dealers I have encountered all want to keep test drives very brief. If the shortage of V6 RAV4s continues into the 2007 model year, the Edge with its standard 265 Hp - 250 Ft. lbs. V6 will have an edge over the RAV4 (pun intended).

navigator89

" the Edge with its standard 265 Hp - 250 Ft. lbs. V6 will have an edge over the RAV4 (pun intended). "

Good one!

mschmal

Take the "premium fuel" requirement with a grain of salt.

The computers in today's cars and the sophistication of the "knock sensors" used today is more than enough to compensate for the use of regular fuel.

Manufacturers, even Porsche!, (read the USA TODAY article below) concede that the "loss" of performance may not even be noticeable to the average driver.

Automakers have to take into account that different fuels are available in different markets and produce vehicles accordingly.

I would definitely not use GENERIC gas though.

Good brand regular gas is BETTER for your car THAN generic high octane.

Check out these sites:

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-07-30-premiumgas_x.htm

http://www.toptiergas.com/

http://www.gm.com/automotive/fueleconomy/detergent.html

Ford is taking a different approach by recommending BP
http://media.ford.com/newsroom/feature_display.cfm?release=21143

Mark

fsmmcsi

Most every new car which is not turbo or super charged will run just fine on regular fuel. Many people make the mistake of falling for all kinds of advertising, including the non-sense use of the word "premium" to make it seem that higher octane gasoline is somehow superior to "regular." However, turbo and supercharged cars really do need higher octane fuels. Even if the computer is able to adjust the ignition timing and so forth for the lower octane fuel, the power output will be significantly reduced. If the engine control system is not able to adjust adequately, then engine damage will also occur. Therefore, the Mazda Cx-7 and Acura RDX really should be run on premium fuel, and any prospective buyer should take that into account.

akirby

If the car is tuned to run on premium, it will most likely run ok on regular with reduced power as already stated. What people fail to mention is that by retarding the engine timing (this is how it keeps the engine from knocking on regular) you also lose some fuel economy. In one case I saw with actual data using regular actually cost MORE money than using premium would have due to the drop in fuel economy.

If premium is $3 then regular is $2.80 (in atlanta at least). That's only a 6.67% savings. If you reduce fuel economy by 10% you're actually spending more.

Don't be penny wise and pound foolish.

froggersjc

I can't remember where I read the article, but a reputable source did some investigation on "generic" vs "name brand" fuels. This included interviewing refinery and gas company engineers. The conclusion was that bascially all gas in the US is equivalent. Most of the refinery workers regulary used "whatever gas was the cheapest." I think there was a real difference in the past, but today its pretty much all the same.

fsmmcsi

I have been on a fuel terminal property where tank trucks come to fill up for deliveries to various brands of service stations. The different grades of fuel are in large tanks, and the additive package is blended in awhen the fuel is pumped into the tank truck. The base fuel really is all the same.

mschmal

Since the detergent standard was established in 1995, the EPA reduced its requirement by 50%!

http://www.toptiergas.com/

My personal experience with my 1997 Ford Escort OHV engine is that I get pinging with 87 generic but not with 89 generic or with 87 BP or other named brand.

Mark.

markan

I've been following this forum and really appreciate the insight everyone has offered here. My wife and I are wanting to trade in our minivan and have looked at a Freestyle and Escape. I really want to wait for the Edge but our A-plan discount ends in August. Does anyone know if Ford has ever extended the A or X-plan periods? Does anyone know for sure when ordering begins for the Edge or are the dates I've seen just speculation. Thanks for the help.

Markan

mikelevine64

Orders start on 7/10/06

JOB 1 Production is 10/16/06

Hope this helps

fsmmcsi

Perhaps it is normal, but it seems odd to me that the ordering guides are not out (at least on the publically accessible portions of the Internet) 14 days before ordering is to begin.

I have just seen the second review of the Acura RDX which indicates a bad ride - they use the word "choppy." It will be a real surprise if the ride and handling of the Edge and MKX are not good.

Moderator(s) - Since the Edge and MKX are just trim variations on the same vehicle, please combine the discussions on them.

markan

Thanks. Now I just have to convince my wife to order without seeing or driving one. This will be her primary vehicle so need to do it right.

akirby

I believe you must have the A/X/Z plan when the car is delivered, not just when it's ordered. Maybe you can get a PIN number that's good for a few months. Double check with the dealer to be safe.

Also - it's not guaranteed that your dealer will sell you one under A/X/Z plan. They're not required to do that. When the Mustang GT first came out you couldn't get one on any discount plan from any dealer. Now you can get coupes and sometimes convertibles. It all depends on supply and demand and markups.

Kirstie_H

We'll think about it when we move the discussions to their "permanent" homes. Combining discussions makes a mess of things, so we're reluctant to do it unless there's a huge reason to do so.

fsmmcsi

Kirstie: The main reason is that they are the same vehicle, so most of what is said about one applies to the other. I would suggest that instead of making a mess, Edmunds would be cleaning up a mess by having all discussions for vehicles built on the same platform combined. There would be fewer discussions, and ideas from owners and people interested in all of the various versions would be combined. In the case of the Edge and MKX, the platform, drive train, and most of the body are the same.

tinycadon

some people won't realize this, and since they are called LINCOLN and FORD I'd second the motion you would do nothing but create confusion, not everyone is a car junkie who would know the differences and similarities. Give it up, it's not a good idea, the host knows it but will be nice about it.

mschmal

I just got the final Packaging info on the Edge and it is clear that Ford still doesn't get it.

The possible combinations are just CRAZY!

3 trim levels.
Base SE WITHOUT available let alone standard 6 CD.
(Nissan Versa SL at $15,000 has standard 6 CD)

Base SE has BLACK PLASTIC door handles al'a the Ford Focus. SE also has a lower grade cloth.

If Ford doesn't want people to buy an SE, then they shouldn't offer it. It only adds confusion and ultimately pisses people off.

IF only that were the case though. Ford is recommending a dealer mix of 35% SE. This is the final proof of their stupidity. They think that 35% of people dishing out over 25k for a vehicle are not going to want 6 CD!

Mark

tinycadon

It does have a aux jack for a mp3 player, I see that as a big plus, would rather have that then a 6cd player.

savetheland

CD in the car - is the thing of the past.

I would prefer SD card slot there instead of CD slot.

fsmmcsi

Yes, some slot(s) for thumb drives, SD cards, or whatever wouldbe nice. However, plenty of people still have CDs, and the sound quality is better than the compresssed stuff on a little pocket pod. The Sirius radio is also good. A hard disk would be handy.

tinycadon - why not educate those who do not know? Unless you are a car maker trying to charge an enormous amount just for the different badge, there seems to be no benefit to keeping people in the dark.

driverdm

I actually do not want a 6 disc changer in my Edge if I get one. I don't see the things you mentioned as a deal breaker. I have a CD visor that holds like 12 CDs and it is very simple to switch CDs so I figure, why pay the cost. Also, I have an MP3 player so even my CD visor is becoming a thing of the past. As lon as I can plug my MP3 player in, I'll be fine. I figure I'll get body color door handles aftermarket for pretty cheap as well. No biggie.

driverdm

tinycadon - why not educate those who do not know? Unless you are a car maker trying to charge an enormous amount just for the different badge, there seems to be no benefit to keeping people in the dark.

The Edge and MKX are not badge engineered vehicles. The interiors are completly different and to your normal buyer, though they'll think the exteriors are similar, they won't see them as the same thing. It would be like combining the Expo, and Navigator or the Tahoe, Yukon, and Escalade together. Just will cause confusion. The MKX is a step above the Edge, no doubt. It is a more premiu vehicle. I which it had significant feature differences but hopefully those are coming soon.

tinycadon

Unless the Edge and MKX are the Exact same weight, length, width, shape, have the exact same drag coefficient, tires, weight balance, and anything else you can think of I'd be willing to concede the point and combine the two, but common sense tells me that's not the case, and as such it would be a poor decision to combine the two discussions. How about we combine every single car discussion in all the forums into 1??? I mean, they are all cars, and they all have 4 wheels, so wouldn't it make sense to just combine them all into 1 forum discussion about CARS?????

gene_v

Right! Three trim levels don't make much sense. They are eliminating the SE in the Five Hundred?

Kirstie_H

For a variety of organizational reasons that I can't entirely get into, we're leaving 'em separate for now. For a glimpse of our new structure, please use the "browse by board" drop-down at the left and look at the SUVs board. Thanks!

akirby

It only makes sense if they're planning on selling it as a fleet vehicle, especially for rentals, or if they're trying to hit a certain target for a "starting at" base price.

Either way the 35% mix doesn't make sense. If I was a dealer I wouldn't order the base model, or at most one or two.

gene_v

I'm for anything that gets the Edge on the showroom floor SOON. Can't believe it takes so long for Ford to get a nww car out the door. Must be a mind boggling bureaucracy.

fsmmcsi

Well, it is July 10, the day Ford is reportedly going to start taking orders for the Edge, yet I can't find any order guides online. Does anyone have one or have a link to one?

advequityguy

I dunno....the "se" 500 sold just fine. The "se" freestyle is far superior to the sel and limited when you consider value for the dollar (in my opinion anyhow). As of 2007 model year, Ford offers neither. Why in the world would you gripe about having a lower cost alternative to consider? I will miss the 500 se and the freestyle se, but I am very happy ford has a fusion s and will have an edge se. as for demanding a 6 disk cd on anything over $25000, I've seen $50000 trucks that dont have it either. Personnally, if I'm buying something high end, I'm going to put an aftermarket head unit in it anyhow. I'd rather there be a hole in the dash than pay an extra 3 or 4 hundred for somehting I'm going to throw away. I think maybe Ford does indeed "get it". That marketing department gets paid for a reason. We'll see though. If the edge bombs, maybe they'll start running all the marketing ideas past mschmal.

akirby

My point was not that a base model is bad, just that putting black door handles, cheap cloth and no cd changer in a base model doesn't make sense for the regular public. It cheapens the vehicle, especially if people compare base models of the Edge to other vehicles. The fact that you CAN'T even get the cd changer as an option tells me it's probably a fleet thing anyway.