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The Big 3 and the domestic issues that will affect them
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The VQ motors are top notch IMO. Excellent smoothness and plenty of grunt.
Maybe the assembly line is flexible enough that they can build them all on the same line with Accords, but IMO that doesn't make it "Accord-based"
The MDX/Pilot and Odyssey (2004, I guess) are almost as similar.
The Ridgline also uses the same platform with a lot of work done to it, like the frame you mention.
Chrysler is already a lost cause - my best friend passed on even considering them again based upon the fact that they can't make a transmission that lasts even close to 100K. Mercedes should drop them as soon as posible.
GM - too boated with groupthink. No way to see beyond fleet sales and to really trim down the dealership and line bloat.
Ford - they don't have the engineering or bloat problem, so they *might* be the one of the three that survives. But they need to radically re-think their perspective. From what I read, it sounds like they are just slapping new paint and sheetmetal on the same designs, though. NO radical re-thinking seems to be going on.
Q:Why is everyone buying Toyota and Honda?
A:Perceived quality is incredibly high. Anyone with money buys the best that they can, other than the dwindling few who buy based upon some sense of false patriotism.
A few pointers, in case someone from Ford is reading:
1: Small *and* cheap are what get you into trouble every time. Small and *high-quality* is what is "hot" and selling well in Europe. The only two cars like this for sale in the U.S. are the Mini and the upcoming Fit. You should be able to buy a fully-loaded well-built smaller version of the main-line cars instead of having to sacrifice safety and features.
My top 4 items to change quality-wise.
A:Put proper bumpers on cars again. Who cares about the U.S. Govt? Design them to exceed the regulations. Give us true 5mph bumpers again. This is exactly like building codes. They are a *minimum* acceptable standard. Don't design a car to a minimum standard either.
B:Add 50 lbs more sheetmetal by going up a gauge or two. The Mini is made with heavier than normal metal on the surfaces that people can touch and it makes it feel like a much more solid and pricey car.
C:People intensely dislike plastic. What does the term "plasticky" mean? Rid all interior surfaces of plastic wherever possible. Metal and cloth padding are far superior and cost only a little more. The idea here is that if a person can touch it during normal use, that part of the car gets better surfaces and treatment from the design teams. The rest of the car - nobody looks under the trunk, for instance. No change there. Hire a bunch of ex-IKEA designers if need be.
D:Common parts. An alternator for a Ford should come in 3-4 sizes and the bolt positions shouldn't change for at least a decade. Volvo was a pioneer of this approach in the past and it helped to keep repair costs down. If it costs 1/2 of what Toytota charges to replace a part, then the fact that the car is 3/4 as reliable is likely to be overlooked. "Yeah it breaks down more, but it's dirt cheap to fix" makes consumers happy. $350 for an alternator is almost criminal, BTW.
2: Do what Honda does. As a consumer, searching for options and packages and paying through the nose for them is painful. Pare it down to 2-3 trim lines for each model, but here's the trick - make each model significantly different than the others.
Eg: Look at a Ford Explorer. The three trim lines have the same dash, same seats(other than leather), and so on - so mistakes like that 2 inch deep storage slot in the dash that's too small to fit anything get repeated throughout the entire line. I can look at a base Escape and a loaded Explorer and the slot-of-uselesness is still there. Make us feel like we are getting something for our money instead of having to jump an entire trim level up to just get the one feature we want, like ABS or a sunroof.
3:All cars over 3500 lbs need to be made with RWD. FWD has a rightfully deserved image of "econobox" which doesn't mate well with luxury image-wise. Traction control and stability control make RWD cars as safe as FWD cars, if not moreso, since a 3500 lb car wasn't designed to be FWD in the first place. Putting close to 250hp in some cars like this and charging 35K+ is a significant part of GM's problem. Don't fall into the same trap.
4:www.miniusa.com - Check out the options and ability to configure the vehicle. Note how few options are redundant or a wates of money - they actually change the car.
5:Perhaps most importantly, develop a business model that can survive with zero fleet sales. If you are relying on that to survive, then you are already doomed. It should be more of a matter of fleet sales are a nice bonus but you don't need them.
I can agree with most of what you said. I think 2-3 trim lines with no options would be a very efficient way to build cars. Especially like a Chevy, Pontiac, Saturn. The premium brands like Buick, Saab, and Cadillac should come one-way in top level trim. Just like the Acura RL. The only options for a RL is dealer installed accessories i.e. lip spoiler vs. wing, or cargo mat vs. trunk divider, gold emblem package, or bigger tires and rims, etc etc.
Your definitely on to something pal. Hard plastic anywhere I agree will ruin a otherwise nice car. I like the Dodge SRT-8 Jeep, but man the interior dash is overly "plasticky" for almost $46K :surprise:
I like AWD and RWD. The perfect car would be one that is RWD and with a push of a button it could go into AWD/4x4. I wished they could get the transfer cases lighter and were cheaper to build so we could eliminate most of the FWD cars :P -This is coming from a person that has driven mostly FWD in his life.
A good sound buisness module should be common sense. I can't understand why big company's like GM don't diversify ???? Wouldn't atleast some of you agree that GM should try to buy or invest in energy company's ???? If GM would of 10 years ago baught Phillips, instead of Conoco, merging with them, don't you think it would of been a sound buisness strategy to buy your enemy :confuse:
-Just my 2 cents
Rocky
When I think of "plasticky" interiors, I think of CTS. It's not that plastics are the problem, it's how GM uses them. Colors, shades, angles, it's like a showroom for the Plastic Industry or sumpin'!
RWD to full AWD is a nice trick, doh
I think the MazdaSpeed 6 goes from FWD to AWD, but is Automatic only. Should have a driver's switch.
If GM was being run by someone who isn't in New York Jets Management (a 4th rounder for your Herm?), they would have seen, since the 70's "Oil Embrago", that setting aside a division (how many do you have again?) for small, efficient, fun cars might be a good idea. A foundation for your global empire, where young customers can start with your company.
A division that can carry the ball when trucks aren't so cool, and people don't see a reason to throw $25-40k your way for a convertible pick-up (SSR), or a jacked-up minivan (Rendevous)
DrFill
Rocky
Right...
Well, it is a positive step away from incentives. Could these suits have actually learned their lesson from employee pricing?
Lol. Nice fantasy world he lives in where an Impala LS is equivalent to an Accord V6.
GM is doomed. It's just sad that all of those smaller makers they bought out in the last decade are going to go down with them. Saab especially - the 93 is a wonderful car, though - probably the last truly excellent Swedish built sedan we'll ever see. The 92 - well, it has "GM" written all over it. Compare the two and there's why they will fail.
There was one article on the newly redesigned Toyota Camry hybrid with a graph showing the Camry's success over the last decade.
The next article was about Ford's market share decline in 2005 with 2006 not looking hot; pictured was a Ford exec posing in front of a new big truck.
Aren't $3 gallon prices still fresh in people heads? Why is GM/F still focusing on SUVs & trucks? The only GM ads I see are for the Tahoe... what are they thinking? Or are they thinking?
GM and Ford focus on trucks and SUVs because so much of their sales volume (somewhere between 60-75% or more depending on just how you want to count) comes from those segments. They build cars mostly to prop up their CAFE average and keep their dealers off their backs.
I don't know what GM is thinking though. The "year of the truck"? - what are they smoking?
They just picked a bad year. If they were producing hybrids to balance it out, it might just be seen as a general product offensive.
Had the Cobalt and Impala last year.
And GM does need the profits these trucks engender.
On the other hand, Toyota is redesigning so many cars, cars people will buy, that when they bring in a truck or SUV, it gets lost in the shuffle!
And Ford, when you redesign the best-selling vehicle in America, break all kinds of records, and still lose huge chunks of share, that's not a good sign.
It's gonna be up to the Fusion to carry the ball for a while. Escape, Expedition, Focus, 500 all have had their best years already. No new Ranger for another couple of years. Exploder sales are on a steep decline, as the market crowds with competition.
If Ford remade the Focus off the Mazda3 platform, they could build off that, but cooler heads prevailed, and the best car in the class resides far away from a domestic lot.
DrFill
Ford-30,000
Chrysler-6,000-12,000
NAFTA and CAFTA and other trade treaties are killing us. Few in office care, but most don't give a rat. The domino has fallen. :sick:
Rocky
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109063
Rocky
That's the current state of OUR union. :surprise:
Rocky
P.S. "Can I get fries with that" or "Paper or Plastic"
I told my wife that the Imperial could easily be mistaken for a $350K Rolls Royce or Bentley. I told my wife she could chauffeur I and the kids around like the wealthy. I just wished it would came with a humidor and a champagne box. J/K
I would also expect a DVD-Audio Surround Sound System that really rocks. My idea is to borrow the "new" million speaker 600 Watt Harmon Kardon from the new S-class
I do hope it's true about the under $50K Sticker. It will be interesting to see what DC does with this vehicle. I just hope it's fast and luxurious as the concept :shades:
Here's the Link to the Video: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/PopUpVideoPlayer/videoID=20030920/pageCode=- videopopup/articleId=108810
Rocky
GM isn't going to change. The lies from our government will keep coming. The rosy visions of a future are just that. If people understood that and started to re-train and look for other work NOW, then maybe they'd be prepared for things like the next round of "job cuts" at GM and Ford. They just cut tens of thousands of jobs this last week and it really shouldn't have surprized anyone - the writing was plain to see months beforehand.
Computers? Well, if you can't bring the work to low-wage workers, you can alway bring low-wage workers to the work. I heard of senior softeware engineers who were about to be let go forced to train their replacements who were from India on work visas. If these senior engineers would refuse to train their replacements, they were threatened with forfeiture of their severance packages.
Construction? Sounds good until you realize their are millions of illegal immigrants crossing the border every day willing to do construction work for a fraction of what the American worker can or will. Plenty of unscrupulous contractors will hire them.
Well, there's always the medical field. Oh oh, when everybody else is out of work or is working without benefits, nobobdy goes to the doctor!
And, as I said, if your field collapses or the union goes crazy or whatever, just get your own license and go into business for yourself. Then you have nobody to complain to. The problem they had with HVAC was that they went to a trade school instead of doing it properly via the union. Those guys are still employed, most likely.
The smart ones, though, moved to niche jobs withing the field as soon as they could. If you are the only guy in 20 miles that can fix and work on specialized equipment like turbines, for intstance, you'll do just fine. If you are only trained to fix refrigerators, yeah - possible upcoming wall heading your way. That's if they didn't get their own license as fast as humanly possible.
Still, the days of the auto unions in the U.S. are numbered. Time to move to other jobs.
This kind of BS has been going around for decades. Same crap was said when I got out of high school and college. No opportunities, will never afford a house, or new car, so on and so forth. Glad I didn't listen to that BS, or I'd still be living at home.
Seems to me, the people that keep complaining are the one's who get left behind, while the rest take advantage of available opportunities and succeed. Trust me, there are plenty of opportunities still available.
I hate to see people lose their jobs as much as the next person. But, we can't sit around and bitching an moaning, hoping somebody will offer us a $100k/yr job to work on an assembly line or or $50k to push a broom while other countries/people take from us what we feel we are entitled to. It's this kind of complacency and sense of entitlement that has put many out of a job.
If you don't like the way things are do something about it. I donate time in the Big Brothers, Big Sisters organization. I have a "little brother" who is underprivileged, lives in a single parent home, while his mom works 3 jobs to keep a roof and food on the table. I see everyday how some people suffer, and at times I feel guilty that I have the means to have things they can only dream about.
That said, my "little brother" (who is 12)doesn't see what my wife and I have and say, "well, I'll never have that kind of life style, cause all the opportunities are gone". He doesn't sit around feeling sorry for himself. He talks about how he is going to get the things in life he wants.
I try my best to make him understand that nothing I have was given, it was earned, and that he has every opportunity to do the same.
I'll get off my soap box now, but I just hate hearing that opportunities don't exist and the country is going down the tubes. I'm confident our kids will have more success than us.
Basically the deal is is that you get your college education paid for by the fed.government but you must be in an industry that has been blighted by foreign competition. Boeing was being "blighted" by Airbus after 2001 and I lost my job there at the Everett, WA, plant in 2003. I decided to retrain as a Respiratory Therapist and we sold our house (by fax machine, great R.E.agent and cell phone!)and moved to Missouri, where living was much cheaper than western Washington.
A couple of rules: you must maintain a "C" average in your studies, they must approve both the program you enter and the college you go to. The college must be properly accredited. I received Unemployment Insurance every week from Washington state while I studied Respiratory Therapy in beautiful mid-Missouri, Rolla, MO, to be exact. I didn't have a job, my job was going to college with the kids when I was in my 40's. Whoo-hoo for that, eh?
I am a new grad as of May '05 and working now in Pocatello, ID, as a Certified Respiratory Therapist. I thank Uncle Sam for the program. My wife found work here, we just bought a nice house and I'm scoping out a 2006 Kia Rio LX that is both practical and beautiful all at the same time.
Oh, about the Allied Health field. It is booming. Medical insurance, malpractice insurance forcing doctors out of the business and overall the high cost of medical coverage for workers and business owners( big and small)continue to loom as challenges ahead.
But there is life after Boeing. And I think there will be life after GM and Ford, too, for those unfortunate enough to lose their jobs in auto manufacturing.
Oh, and the last time I checked it was legal to buy a rig manufactured in South Korea, too. Buy 'em and drive 'em with pride, dudes.
Seattle 24, Pittsburgh 14.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
But some here would have you believe that if they just bought a GM product, they'd be better off! Somehow the health and well being of our pals up in Detroit are the success or demise of our countrys' economy...
Suck it up and buy a GM product, who cares if it stinks. Right?
If that were the case then, "Damned if you do, damned if you don't". Don't buy a GM and your life and well being go in the dumper. Buy a GM and enjoy countless hours of uninspiring, dull, cheap, transportation. Both sound miserable, but I'll chance the first option, thanks.
In the '70s, all the jobs were heading to Japan and the best you could hope for is to latch on to a McDonald's job and hang on.
I think the motto of these folks is "the sky is falling."
I am trying to hire 30 production workers and finding qualified machine operators and welders has been difficult ...
Is that a result of good employment prospects in these trades or a lack of trained welders and machinists coming out of vocational schools and apprenticeship programs?
From the posts on this board, I'd think you would have people banging down your door begging for a job.
- Lemko-Here's the 10 million dollar question for the family man that is a unemployed worker. How is Joe that lost his job at a good paying company like GM or Ford going to support his family ???? 2 shifts at K-Mart won't buy energy for the home and car.
Like Lemko said get retrained in what ???? I guess it's easy playing armchair QB making such easy career decisions.
-Who's to blame ???? I blame the folks that put former and current Greedy CEO's to run are country into the ground to make a buck.
Autojobs of the future will be dome Lemko on a
"guess worker"basis. Hell they will probably get a tax incentive for being a minority based on their legal statis. :mad:
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
You get on the job training, access to all osrts of government programs(as others have talked about), as well as they also have classes. All while getting paid a hell of a lot more than K-Mart or the like do.
Rocky is the type who always paints the picture as bad as possible to make his point. If Delphi/Delco is dropping wages to $12 an hour or you risk loosing you job entirely, well, then, $12-14 an hour to start with $25-30 an hour in 4-5 years, that's definately not that bad. And most factory workers if they are smart can get a year or two off of their apprenticeship for their experience, depending on what union and skills they had. That can represent a 16-18 an hour starting wage, which frankly, you have to be an idiot to to make ends meet on.
No, not live in a mansion, and probably rent, but the heat will stay on and the food will be there at least.
Dude I'm stating the facts. The Contract that the UAW is getting offered to them from Robert S. Miller until the Febuary 14th deadline so far is $12 dollars and hour with a 3-4% wage increase. It will take 2 decades to get to your $25-30 an hour rosy wage. There is no 3-4 year Golden Rocket wage increase launcher anywhere in the contract pal. I'm not sure if you are misinformed or making a "current" contract judgement which isn't the case for the proposal Miller is offering Delphi.
I support what the IBEW is doing for people that wanna to apprenticeship programs and for a youngster it's a golden oppertunity to learn a lifelong skill. I have a few IBEW family memebers and checked into it in 97-98ish but the classes were plum full of students.
Rocky
P.S. My picture of life today for someone wanting to be in the middle class isn't as rosy as some such as you believe it to be.
Unless you have a oppertunity to get your college paid for by a company or a union like the IBEW. The college debt, time vs. income ratio is a judgement factor that depends on where he/she lives and the age he/she is. I guess life isn't fair for some.
Now, unions can support, and then again, they often do squat for laid-off people, for instance. Delphi is bleeding badly, they are a huge parts maker and they're going down the tubes. What are they supposed to do but ask for reductions from their unions? Haven't we seen the airlines do the same thing? Boeing didn't bother, they told us that they were going to off-load our engineering work to a small non-Boeing engineering company from Alabama and pay those guys half of what we received in wages. 2 guys were allowed to stay on in my group out of 21. My point is that Boeing saw Airbus as a huge roadblock in keeping 161,000 worldwide workers in their new cars and nice homes. After all, Phil Condit and Harry Stonecipher (both since disgraced and fired from Boeing) had to receive their huge bonuses and plump salaries. Boeing is so big of a company that your efforts go squashed if somebody above you wants to move your work elsewhere. And your union won't do squat. They will take your dues happily, though.
No, look at Ford and GM. Of course they're going to cut back. They have to. Same with Delphi. This is where the "rubber hits the road" and the union philosophy strains practicality to the breaking point. It makes things uglier and unpleasant. If a person doesn't want to join their union they are labeled as scabs.
Yes, but can't a scab have a good work attitude, too? The laziness portrayed by today's modern union hurts their image. Badly. Especially these "locked in" contracts with the union that assure union members pay even without work. That's nuts. Look what it leads to.
BTW, did anybody ever find out if Hyundai's new Alabama plant is unionized or not? Just kinda curious on that one.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
****
The IBEW, for instance, has a ~8000 hour apprenticeship. Full journymen make be4tween $24 and $30 an hour(if they are formeman). They get madical, paid overtime, all the goodies, just like the UAW.
And, yes, it's scaled. You start low, at about 50% of the final wage, but rise quickly to full pay. Not 3% or some nonsense. OTOH, once you get up to the top, your salary doesn't change for years at a time, but there's always so much work... you do the math.
The carpenter's union is simmilar - way to much work and not enough people to do it. Pay is good and they actually encourage you to get your contractor's license if you can. The UAW? I don't see any "self employed" option, either, which is the true test of a self-sufficient union.
http://www.ibewlocal26.org/webroot/wage_pkg.cfm
Wrap your mind around this. Then realize the workers at Delphi are either just not paying attention or not looking hard enough. The top chart is IBEW wages. Every level is about 6-9 months. And I was wrong. $30 plus benefits, or $40 an hour effective after 5 years.
Also, pension after 15 years. Many people start in it as a second career and "retire" at 50-55. Medical covers your entire family, of course. Very simmilar to most school districts in this aspect.
The UAW was simmilar, but they caved. Delphi is getting cut off at the knees. Anyone who is smart will move on. Shoot, *I* make more than $12 an hour staring at a computer screen all day doing quality control(data forensics). Hugely boring and tiring, but my wife and I we manage a 2 bedroom condo in an upper-middle class area of Los Angeles and neither of us make close to $20 an hour.
-Febuary 14th we will see how it plays out.
Rocky
And that's before the proposed cut. Why slog through 5 years of your life to get where most temp agencies start you at?
Ahat's dreadful compared to the other trade unions. You seriously should them about it.
It goes to show you we have taken quite a few steps back in wages and benefits in the manufactoring segment due to globalization.
-Plekto seriously most temp agencies in Michigan start you anywhere from $6-8 an hour. $16 an hour is damn good and I've never heard of such high wages for temp work agencies. Where do you live ? When I got a $9.93 an hour job at Perrigo back in 99' I thought I was rich. I was still living at home with Dad and didn't have any bills.
Rocky
Where do you get your numbers? To my knowlege we haven't had annual inflation numbers anywhere near that amount in over a decade.
My cost of living had gone up more than 5% during the last year. Check gasoline, check cost of buying a replacement car, clothing cost, grocery cost at Kroger's, restaurants... Outback increased the cost of my favorite and lower the portion size of the meat for what's probably a 12% or more increase.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes, it's as boring as it sounds. Yes, it's as mindless as you can imagine. Yes, it hurts your eyes. And it pays $14-16 an hour via the temp agencies. My sister in Chicago did a search and found that the wages are identical for this sort of job there as well. And with a 300% a year turnover rate(it's seriously grinding work), the companies that do this sort of thing are always hiring.
If she's getting $8 an hour for temp work, she either needs to look for a different agency or go into a trade union. $22 an hour is the maximum, btw, for the IBEW with their low-voltage/AV program.(pays about 70% of the normal electricians) As of last year in California(and several other states, too), all AV installations need to be done by a licensed person, and the place you get the certification/training? You guessed it. Too many hacks doing it wrong, so they changed the laws.
She wouldn't have to even work on a major construction project. Most of it is alarm systems anyways. Trucking is also in high demand as well. Not glamorous, but pays a lot better than $14 an hour.
P.S. No, really - she needs to move. Not to someplace like New York or Los Angeles, but Chicago or someplace simmilar would be fairly close and have work at competetive wages. Sure beats slowly being strangled to death.
Rocky
Rocky
$100K + pension + college
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
For a guy who got his salary cut in half down to $1.1 million didn't cut in half his stock options and bonus did he ???? :lemon:
The media and him make it sound like a tradegy for him and the board of executives. They are damn multi-millionaires that never have to work another day again if GM went belly up.
Am I suppose to have the same sympathy for a millionaire who is wealthy and got his salary cut in half and is still making $1.1 million,(more than most buisness owners or CEO's)as I am for my father who makes $26 an hour and is looking at $12 dollars an hour ??????????
-Come-on what kind of Cuban Cigar smoke are you blowing up our behindes Rick
Rocky
Rocky
Holmgren has every reason to feel irritated over the combination of calls and non-calls made or made incorrectly or not made during the Super Bowl.
I've never seen a nation get behind one team so much than this year's Super Bowl.
Boy, have I mentioned how happy I am that Jerome got his ring? I sure am!
The call against Hasselback for an illegal block when Matt was actually tackling the opponent who intercepted his pass is laughable, except that it tacked another 15 yards on to the end of the play and put Pittsburgh into scoring territory.
The whole game was like that. Once Seattle made a nice play a cute little flag came floating down to the ground with some bought-off call accompanying it to negate it.
The game was thrown to make more gambling money for the appropriate bettors. Simple and plain as that.
Mike Holmgren and the Seattle Seahawks went 13-3 during the regular season and Pittsburgh's Steelers went 11-5. Both teams had impressive playoff runs but one team had The Bus who may be retiring so we all had to do our part so he could get a Super Bowl ring.
Man, I'm glad Jerome got his ring. He sure deserves it, huh? What a nice man. Have I mentioned that? Man, it was like some euphoric dream, man...I saw this big trophy and it had my name written all over it...before the game had even began.
I've lost shiploads of respect for the NFL. Cowards and crackpots and dopeheads they are. Letting a game like the Super Bowl be bought off like that? They should be ashamed of themselves, but, since they're lacking morals, they're not.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick