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The Big 3 and the domestic issues that will affect them
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I don't like the lower sub-grille. Too wide, just doesn't flow well with the rest of it, and gives the front-end a busy, cluttered look.
Rocky
The grill on the '07 Navigator reminds me of a smiling rapper with jewelry on his teeth:)
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Back on Subject:
GM fails to silence doubters
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060209/AUTO01/602090375/1148-
Is Chryslers comback fizzling
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060209/AUTO01/602090391/1148-
Rocky
I tried looking it up but couldn't find an exact name. IMO, it should be called "Look at me, I don't know what to do with my money".
Rocky
That having been said, it would have been nice to see honest, hardworking refs working the Super Bowl last Sunday. The Seahawks were systematically robbed of the Super Bowl by the ref's. Can you say bought-off?
Something went horribly wrong during the Super Bowl and it wasn't the play of Matt Hasselback and Shaun Alexander. Darrell Jackson pushed off to get free? Oh, please. He did not. What a joke.
Ben Rothchild actually put the football over the plane of the end zone for a Steeler touchdown? No, the ball did not cross the plane of the end zone. Yet, even after reviewing the play the old ref called it a Steeler touchdown. Wrong again, Mr.Bond.
Holmgren is right. He worked all year long to get to this game. All year long the Seahawks systematically worked for first downs and scored touchdowns. Alexander had a great year and continued to run like the Pro-Bowler he is. Hasselback had a new target in Joe Jurevicious. Jerramy Stevens made big plays. Walter Jones and Steve Hutchinson continued moving large NFL linemen out of the way for Morris and Alexander to gain yardage.
Then, the Big Enchilada arrives. The Super Bowl is here. All-right! Funny thing is, the ref's aren't acting right. They've got weird looks on their faces. They're not being up-front and honest, are they, America? Say it: DISHONEST. Spell it: D-I-S-H-O-N-E-S-T.
What's wrong with them? Every time a Seahawk made a big play, a ref would fling a flag into the air. Take that play back. The nation doesn't like Seattle's Seahawks. We can't have them winning this game.
Jerome needs his ring. He's the guy the nation wants to see get a Super Bowl ring. He deserves it. He needs it. He wants it.
Since when did this nation award Super Bowl victories to certain players just because we felt like they needed to have one? Did anyone else notice the "fondling of the Lombardi Trophy" commercials the NFL played? I did. They showed all Steelers celebrating and fondling the Lombardi like their favorite thing to fondle.
Eventually they showed Hasselback, Holmgren and Alexander fondling the trophy after watching the Steelers fondle for about 10 minutes. Yikes. No wonder NASCAR is big in America.
The Big Three and the domestic issues that affect them? Start by making us good cars and then not charging so much for them.
Can you offer a Warranty like Kia's? You probably could, but you won't. You need your executive salaries. They're large, but you're better than the guy from Detroit working the line of GM cars trying to support his family on what you are paying him.
Oh, Detroit. No, there's nothing really interesting or good about Detroit that stands out. Only one thing, guys.
There's this rock band from Canada that hails from Kingston, Ontario called the Tragically Hip that I like. I like The Tragically Hip and they're based somewhat near Detroit. That's about it.
I hope Mike Martz is your answer, rockylee. Detroit needs some answers.
The NFL is sorely in need of some honesty and integrity.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Rocky
P.S. GM, Chrysler, and maybe Delphi your next.
I really couldn't tell them anything. Seriously. I think a persons culture and how they as individuals were raised plays the biggest role in how a individual will think. I happened to be raised believing this way I do and probably to most folks I'm dumb !!!!
I guess to some the consequences don't even register and feel there is no harm in buying a import over a domestic.
I don't know, perhaps I am dumb and wrong in my thinking.
I guess blame my parents and family for my patriotism, and to some it's false patriotism.
I personally got caught up in the belief that buying a Asian car made in the U.S. was no different than buying a GM, Ford, Chrysler, until I did some real research some time back. I looked at the number of people that GM, Ford, Chrysler, directly affect in employment numbers versus the Asians. The Big 3 had a significant bigger impact advantage on our economy.
I guess their is a good number of folks that Capatalism, and free-trade, is the way a government should operate and the strongest survives.
I as you already know am a strong american protectionist, and believe in socialism. My "great great" grandfather from Norway was a big socialist, and I guess he is responsible for my family's thinking. He was European sailboat champion from 1900-1903 and was born and raised in Larvik, Norway. He sailed to the U.S. (New York) in the late 1900's where he met my grandmother in Chicago. A successful buisness man in Chicago, he built some of the first skyscrapers and large homes. All of his Elmwood Park homes still stand to this day. A millionaire in the 1920's the crash of 29' took his wealth. He before he lost all of his wealth owned a Apperson Jack-Rabbit, which was later baught out by Cadillac, and my great grandmother told me "Pa" took mom and I out on the town in that convertible and we were like celebrity's. "I was dressed with the latest fashions and was a rich spoiled 5 yr. old girl".
My grandfather like Al Capone also was against prohibition, and I will leave it at that.
My grandfather came to the U.S. and worked his tail off. He loved the United States, especially Chicago and Western Michigan. He was a strong patriot who believed that you should support country, neighbor, and American Buisness. This mentality lives on inside me and I guess I will die to some as a false patriot.
The people of San Fransico, didn't grow up with my life expierence. The Mid-West and West Coast are two different cultures. I can't speak for them, but will disagree with them for buying a Toyota Tacoma because it has a Toyota badge on it; thus making it inferior to a domestic alternative. We can argue that the Toyota Tacoma has more features for the money and offers more value. I can make excuses for GM, Ford, Chrysler over the Asians having a currency advantage, no legacy costs
(even though Tacoma is UAW built) and free taxes for building modern plants here. They have every advantage over GM, Ford, Chrysler, but I still believe The Big 3 still built a respectable alternative.
I don't know what the ultimate solution is "to fix" the Big 3 problems other than tariffs, or other form of taxes on Asian Vehicles. This is the million dollar question ????? It's either we come up with a workable solution or there won't be
a Big 3 once the Chinese and India gets involved in the auto buiz. President Bush is ignoring the problem, but at some point that question is going to have to be answered. I guess right now the answer is to blame the $25 dollar an hour UAW workers who ask for a fair retirement, health benefits, and wage. Is that truely to much to ask ???? The alternative is government subsidized medicare/medicaid which we all have to pay for in the form of taxes.
Retirement, health care, for most of us that aren't wealthy is a huge topic. If you have 50 million "401K" millionaires, then what is a million dollars in the future ????? Are we all destined to be wealthy and there is no need for a modest pension plan anymore ????? Somehow history has a check and balance and I'm not sure at age 27 I'm ready to buy into the
"we will all will be rich someday answer".
Thanx
Rocky
P.S. this my response to your NUMMI/San Fran question.
I think that bling-bling stuff is called "pull-outs", but I don't know for sure.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
The previous generation came out of school with entry-level jobs paying about $42K adjusted for inflation. They were also pretty much free of crushing student loan debt and moved much more faster into a middle-management position that paid a solid middle-class wage. Credit card debt was minimal if not non-existant.
Today's kids are relying on credit cards to pay for basics such as groceries, rent, utilities, and for car repairs to keep their old rides running. Forget about any of them buying a new car outside of running to Mommy and Daddy for help.
I was very fortunate to have been able to buy my first new car - a 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic - without relying on my parents. I didn't even have a credit card until two years after I got out of college. I didn't even touch it for a year after receiving it. I feel really bad for today's college graduates. They don't even have the opportunities of a high-school graduate of 30 years ago.
There are still many opportunities for someone graduating from college to make a good living. Still many areas that pay very well right out of college. Sure things change and opportunities in different industries shift, but opportunities remain.
For instance, new grads out of Pharmacy school are guaranteed a job since their is a huge shortage and starting wages are in excess of $45/hr, plus benefits. My wife hires them as fast as she can find them paying a guaranteed salary of $96k plus sign on bonus's up to $20k in places out in the middle of Kansas (Where you can get a 3000sq/ft house for $200k). Plus they get paid time and a half for overtime and working holidays. I realize this is not the norm, but many companies are having a hard time finding good applicants.
AS far as 401Ks. If you plan on being retired for 30 years, you'll need several million to live a decent lifestyle. Look at the the time value of money. A million today is worth a lot more than a million in the future. Many won't have enough because they are not saving enough today for retirement. While many may have a comfortable retirement, many won't.
BTW, someone who retired 40 years ago only lived an average of about 7 years after retirement, today it's quite different, where people are retired for 20-30 years. That requires a substantial amount of money that may not be able to be maintained. I'm guessing many in our generation will have to work past 65 as you will see many in the boomer generation doing as well.
"I guess their is a good number of folks that Capatalism, and free-trade, is the way a government should operate and the strongest survives."
I'm no economist, Rocky, but I think that is correct. In the real world, only the strongest survive. A government can fight it for awhile with regulation and socialist policies, the the laws of nature rule in the end.
"$25 dollar an hour UAW workers who ask for a fair retirement, health benefits, and wage. Is that truely to much to ask ????"
Yes, it is too much to ask, Rocky, if someone else will do the work cheaper. That's a sad fact of life.
Lemko, you hit the nail on the head.
Regarding the previous question of whether or not $25/hr plus benefits is to much to ask. No it's not as long as the company who is expected to pay these wages and benefits can afford it and remain competitive by paying such wages.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
rockylee, man...you're too close to this topic to see what and why the things that are going on are going on. I was a Ford man until 1999, and at that time my '97 purple Ford Escort was humming along fine, one dent in the side (from a shopping cart
rockylee, man, GM, Ford and Chrysler I didn't even consider! They don't offer the goods. The Asians are out-concentrating the Americans during their work. I know Kia has taken the hit as being one of the worst, but the 2006 Kia Rio I'm fixin' to go buy will no doubt not give me any problems whatsoever. If it does the Long-Haul Warranty will take care of whatever might go wrong. My point is is I'm not afraid to go plunk some change down on a new Kia. Not at all! Get this point, rockylee, what I'm gonna say right now, OK?
I am afraid to go buy that 2006 Dodge Caliber I've been researching. To get the middle model I would want it would run me about $15,500, give or take a Hasselback completition or two, which to the NFL is worth about 50 cents each completion! I still am reeling over that trumped-up...ummm...honest round of officiating I witnessed on February 5, 2006. The NFL has lost their heart, their soul and their intelligence to the rap artists and thugs. End of that story. The Tragically Hip, across the river in Ontario, Canada, could teach all the American rappers what real music is. America's music system is a mixed-up bag of laughs, too. MTV killed it along with the youth of this nation that are so far gone in the pooper along with their rap buddies it ain't even funny.
Back to my point, rockylee. I wouldn't feel comfortable getting that metallic Copper Orange 2006 Dodge Caliber in 5-speed form because I wouldn't trust it's reliability and I can get the 2006 Kia Rio5 in Tropical Red and in 5-speed form for only $14,110, minus $400 College Grad rebate and $500 Kia Owner Loyalty rebate, which rings then up to a grand total of $13,210. That model already has the air conditioning for that price. The lower priced Dodge Caliber needs to be massaged with add-ons that bring the price up to the mid-$15,000's to get what I need in that rig.
The American cars cost more and I don't have an emotional reason to only buy American. I also don't feel an embarrassment to buy South Korean. Man, you look at how student's score in tests, for one thing. The kids from South Korea lead the industrialised world(the only world that counts in this discussion)in test scores. That's right, it's not Germany that leads, it's not France, it's not Great Britain, it's not Brazil. It's the kids from South Korea that score the best in the world. Now, thinking into it a bit further, don't you all think that Kia and Hyundai are getting some of these college grads that are smart to go to work for them? Think about it, non-prejudicially, for a moment. Take a deep breath and relax a second. Who's your Daddy, then? :surprise:
rockylee, you're stretching up a tree that is being cut down by foreign automobiles. I saw it starting in 1999. Kia had much more hard sweaty, work to do. Must catch the Japanese. Remember, the South Koreans and the Japanese don't like each other at all, friends. Not at all. This, as economics always do, stretches past just what you and your cousin Fred want to buy and happily drive for the next 3, 4 or 5 years.
Oh, it stretches so much further than that. Relax, rockylee. The American car industry needs to pay off it's creditors and die a nice, non-painful death. Anybody have any morphine over in the west locker?
Maybe they can emerge a much smarter, resourceful, consumer-friendly corporation, this GM. Ford should do the same, be the good little follower and provide cheaper, less crappy automobiles to the masses. But neither of them will. They're toast, even in their new world order format that may emerge from this nightmare they're embroiled in right now.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
Rocky
Rocky
VW just doesn't make a big deal about it is all.
Me? I'd buy a Golf for $16K(out the door cost, including delivery) new over a Kia for $13.5(with ABS and power package). No question which is better. The Honda Fit is going to be $13K and also have far better features. You might look at it when it comes out in a few weeks.
Is that on all VW cars ???? What other company's besides Hyundai and Kia offer such luxury warranty's ????
Thanx,
Rocky
I think a couple of others do, but even the local VW dealer had to search for it - tiny print on the back cover of the brochure. (checks online)
Lol. I appears as if they changed it recently. It used to be 10 years/100K miles, now it's 5/60K. Sigh. Still, the Golf/Jetta is a very nice car as long as you get the normal base engine with stickshift. The gasoline turbos are a ticking timebomb, as are the automatics.
(their site lists it differently than a 2003 brochure I have in front of me, so this must be a recent change.
The Passatt also lacks guts, but I do like the engineering of it's rock solid cabin and warm wood. It's a almost winner.
Rocky
Why ????
Rocky
Also, the new 2006 Kia Rio's have airbags on the front, front-side(seat-mounted) and side curtains stretching to the rear-seat occupants. That is standard on all 2006 Rio's. The 2006 Kia Rio LX sedan is only $13,055.
Now, I know looks are subjective, but I also prefer the looks of the Kia Rio LX and Rio5 better than anything offered from Germany. When you combine the safety equipment standard, low price, great Warranty and great looks, the Kia Rio5 and Kia Rio LX sedan are obvious top choices. For me. And you, if you like.
Yep, for you it is different and that's OK. I don't live and die by what other Americans choose in automobiles.
Judging by what I see on the roads in America that's a good thing. Yuk.
2021 Kia Soul LX 6-speed stick
OTOH, their manual gearboxes are probably better than any other under $20K car. Nice and tight, zero rubbery feel.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060217/AUTO01/602170370- /1148
I guess it's not just a Big 3 problem after all.
Rocky
Take a hike, and I gotta agree with this approach.
Rocky
Rhetoric or Truth ????
My wallett is significantly lighter, is yours ???
The "energy" industry is having a ball with my money. :mad:
Rocky
How is the price of gasoline ever going to be controlled?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Yes, it's that much - just check out Exxon's quarterly profits. It's insane.
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0502-06.htm
7 billion in 4 months. Pure profit after all expenses. Right out of our economy and pockets.
The litmus test for politicians needs to be whether or not they have ties to the oil or energy industries. If they do, you can be absolutely sure that they are corrupt and will continue the slow destruction of our environment and our economy. Party affiliation is meaningless. Btw - environmentalism is a *conservative* ideal. Somehow they've(all of Washington) twisted it into a socialist agenda in an order to discredit it. All to make it easier to take they wanted. Thinking about future generations? As if. Sad, really.
You are absolutely correct that most members of congress both Democrats and Republicans can give a crap about the enviroment. We keep paying the high prices at the pump and they say we need to get our dependency off of foreign oil. A bunch of rhetoric from both party's that are baught and paid by big oil.
Rocky
President to visit solar panel factory in Auburn Hills today
Deb Price / Detroit News Washington Bureau
Are American trade policies killing the auto industry?
WASHINGTON -- Michigan lawmakers have a message for President Bush, who visits today: Read our lips: Save our manufacturing jobs.
The president, scheduled to tour a high-tech solar panel factory in Auburn Hills, faces a state battered by a loss of manufacturing jobs and represented by lawmakers -- including several in his own party -- who are increasingly critical that he isn't doing more to combat what they see as unfair trade practices by China, South Korea and other global competitors.
"Places like Michigan with a manufacturing base, we just don't have time to wait I'm only going to get louder," said U.S. Rep. Mike Rogers of Brighton, a senior Republican on the House Energy and Commerce's trade subcommittee who partly blames the loss of auto industry jobs in his district on Chinese currency manipulation, government subsidies and auto parts counterfeiting.
U.S. Rep. Sander Levin of Royal Oak, a senior Democrat on the House Ways and Means subcommittee on trade, blasts Bush for "complacency instead of urgency. It's like with New Orleans, where he's looking from 30,000 feet in the air instead of on the ground in the homes of manufacturing workers."
Even U.S. Rep. Joe Knollenberg, R-Bloomfield Hills, who delicately refers to "respectful disagreements" between Michigan lawmakers and Bush on several trade issues, plans to use his position as a powerful House Appropriations chairman to fully fund a technology-training program for manufacturers -- known as the Manufacturing Extension Partnership -- that Bush wants chopped by more than half.
"There isn't one silver bullet to solve the (manufacturing) problem," said Knollenberg, who praised Bush for addressing health care costs and supporting auto-related research. "The MEP program is working; it's helping the little guys who are suffering."
But Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman says the president's trip to Michigan underscores how his new clean energy initiatives can stimulate job growth in the state.
"There are a lot of different parts to the energy initiative that could add jobs in Michigan," said Bodman, who cited Bush's call on Congress to boost funding for research on efficient ethanol production, advanced car battery and hydrogen technology, and expand use of solar energy.
"That's why he is coming to visit one of the local high-tech firms in Michigan. They (at the growing United Solar Ovonic) seem to be on the verge of making breakthroughs I assume they will be one of the bidders for additional funding in the solar energy program," Bodman said.
Bush's visit follows concern expressed by several Michigan lawmakers that he didn't say the word "manufacturing" in his recent State of the Union address and publicly remarked that U.S. automakers should make "relevant" products --what Sen. Carl Levin, D-Detroit, now refers to as Bush's "blame Detroit" approach to trade.
But the president did draw some praise from the Michigan congressional delegation last week when his administration announced it would create a new trade task force within the U.S. trade representative's office to police Chinese trade practices.
The U.S. trade deficit with China is now at an all-time high at $202 billion -- an increase of 25 percent from 2004.
But even that step prompted U.S. Rep. Dave Camp, R-Midland, to point out that he and U.S. Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Lansing., have pending legislation to create a special trade prosecutor to crack down on trade violations.
"If it's a good idea for China, then it is a good idea for every country we trade with," Camp said.
Complaints that the federal government must enforce trade laws became louder after the recent announcement of talks beginning for a new U.S.- South Korea free trade agreement.
Michigan lawmakers express concern about a U.S.-Thailand free trade deal that is further along.
Michigan critics fear Thailand will become a back door for other countries to manufacture vehicles that could be shipped to the U.S. on more favorable terms than exports from their home markets.
The U.S. government levies a 25 percent duty on all foreign-built pickups being imported here. Rogers, Thad McCotter, R-Livonia, and Carl Levin are among those in the delegation leading a fight to keep that 25 percent duty from being lifted in the free trade talks with Thailand unless countries such as Japan, South Korea and India that stand to benefit agree to open up their auto markets to U.S. vehicles.
The new proposed free trade deal with South Korea is also sparking worries.
Levin and his fellow co-chair of the Senate Auto Caucus sent a letter to U.S. Trade Representative Rob Portman saying he is troubled by past efforts to open up South Korea to U.S. autos in pacts in 1995 and 1998.
South Korea, one of the most closed auto markets in the world, protects its domestic industry, critics says, by such intimidating practices as launching tax audits of Koreans buying foreign cars. South Korea sold 731,000 autos in the United States, compared with only 4,000 U.S.-made cars sold there.
The sharpest criticism is coming from Democratic lawmakers.
Gov. Jennifer Granholm, for example, recently accused Bush of not standing up for U.S. manufacturers at the World Trade Organization, the international trade court. "We need a tiger at WTO, not a pussycat, and that's why we're seeing these jobs leave," Granholm said.
Republican McCotter, warns that, just as he didn't support the narrowly passed Central American Free Trade Agreement, he may vote against eventual ones proposed with South Korea and Thailand.
McCotter says the narrow passage of CAFTA put Bush on notice that, "you must enforce what was agreed to (on earlier trade agreements) before bringing something new."
Well here's further concern from the "few" good politicians in Washington D.C. and Michigan.
Rocky
The Detroit News
Hopefully, President Bush's campaign to end our "addiction to oil" is more good news than bad for Metro Detroit, which he visited in 2000.
You say Detroit just needs to be "relevant" and "learn how to compete."
You say, as you did in a long interview with the Wall Street Journal, that American companies "have an obligation to fulfill the contract and make good on your pension promises."
And your economic policy guru, Allen Hubbard, says it's "unfortunate that GM is going to be laying off at the same time Toyota and other companies are expanding" in the United States.
If only it were that simple, Mr. President. Yes, Detroit's automakers and their biggest union, the United Auto Workers, have been undermined by their manifold mistakes. They're also slaves to their obligations to hundreds of thousands of workers who expect pensions and health care in retirement -- and are getting them.
I doubt you or any of your successors would want the alternative. That's why the drama playing out here right now -- the restructuring of General Motors Corp. and Ford Motor Co., the bankruptcy of Delphi Corp., the embrace of alternative engine and fuel technology -- is so important to the industrial health of this country, even if the coastal elites you're so fond of are utterly indifferent to much of anything here in flyover country.
Detroit doesn't need a full-scale government bailout -- and it hasn't asked for one, as you've acknowledged. But it would be helpful if the president and the White House were more engaged in the American-owned auto industry's effort to safeguard its future.
What they want is an advocate whose sweeping concept of national security in a globalized world doesn't end with the Pentagon, the CIA and the Department of Homeland Security. It includes manufacturing, the indigenous auto industry and new fuel technology because a robust and independent industry can still be a bulwark even in the allegedly post-industrial 21st century.
Could you imagine Japan's prime minister or your old friend Gerhard Schroeder of Germany telling their automakers to "get a life" during a painful restructuring? I can't (never mind that I can't imagine Toyota needing to restructure) because it wouldn't happen.
Let me be clear: The smart heads in this town, at least the ones who don't live in the past or go to work each day at the UAW's Solidarity House headquarters, don't want a bailout from Washington because they know they won't get one. They also know too many people think they don't deserve one.
Leveling the field
Detroit's automakers aren't pushing national health care, even if it sometimes sounds like they are. They don't want trade barriers to protect their home market (like the Japanese had) because they need access to foreign markets (China, India and Eastern Europe) so they can book profits overseas to offset thin profit margins (or losses) here at home.
Remember, GM makes more money in China than anywhere else in the world. And, for the first time, it sold more cars and trucks outside the United States last year than inside, which is why your people don't get the same unambiguous signals about trade from GM, Ford, Chrysler or the mondo suppliers as they do from the UAW.
The automakers and suppliers like Delphi and Lear and Johnson Controls and Visteon need trade to survive and prosper. The union, focused more on its dwindling membership rolls and political power than the corporate balance sheets, is convinced it can't survive with anything like free trade.
That's debatable. Less so is the fact that your administration's reluctance to sweat the Japanese, Chinese or the South Koreans over our access to their markets or their intervention in the currency markets doesn't help our competitive equation.
Yes, we understand you need them to a) buy our bonds and b) keep feeding our voracious appetite for cheap goods and c) box in the North Koreans and d) wage the global war on terror and e) begin to pressure nuke-hungry Iran.
But when no less than the consul general of Japan admits in Friday's editions of The Detroit News that "Japan did intervene in foreign currency markets in the past for the sake of predictability" -- well, that tells you everything you need to know.
The truth of the matter
There are some fundamental truths about the Detroit-based industry you should be reminded of, too, even if you don't see them in the clips culled from the coastal papers, which generally have already declared Detroit dead and only Detroit doesn't know it.
First, Detroit does build "relevant" product, such as the white Ford F-250 you drive down in Crawford. Despite all the ballyhoo about Nissan's new Titan pickup, the Mississippi-made behemoth you touted on a visit down there continues to miss sales targets -- so much so that Nissan cut production while Ford's F-Series trucks continue to sell near record levels.
Sounds like relevant product to me. So does the fact that Chrysler is holding its own in the market share wars because it's "building cars people want to buy," as the overused phrase goes; that Ford is picking up market share in cars for the first time since 1993; that the renaissance of GM's Cadillac is the best Detroit turnaround story since Lee Iacocca led Chrysler back from the abyss.
Second, Detroit is honoring its pension obligations to its retirees, as onerous as those obligations have become. Collectively, Detroit's pensions basically are fully funded, which is why the automakers want your help in getting Congress to go easy with pension reform at a time when their credit ratings stink and there's lots of pressure on its cash hordes.
Third, it's simply not true that Detroit doesn't build fuel-efficient vehicles. Last time I checked, Detroit's V-8 powered full-size pickups and SUVs got the same or better gas mileage than Toyota's. Same for small pickups. Nearly 20 GM models deliver 30 mpg or more; the first gas-electric hybrid SUV is a Ford; and Chrysler's Jeep Liberty is the U.S. industry's first diesel-powered SUV.
Did Toyota and Honda set the standard in hybrids? Absolutely, and more models are coming. Same with Ford, GM and Chrysler. And GM and Ford have millions of ethanol-capable vehicles on the road today, a precursor to the ethanol-powered fleet that you say would free us from Oil Sheikdom.
Here's hoping. Your newfound campaign to end our "addiction to oil" is more good news here than bad because Detroit started reading the proverbial tea leaves before your policy people did and was moving in that direction because the market was.
Sounds relevant to me. So would a president willing to lend more moral support and a few well-considered helping hands.
-your answer is NOPE
Rocky
Did the article recommend any specific steps the government should take with regard to the auto industry? I couldn't tell.
The specific steps were brief. Repeal NAFTA/CAFTA and don't trade with country's that tariff our exports.
"Level the playing field" is of course a wide variety of steps that we've already talked about and sure we have left out a few.
The article seemed to brag alot about the womderful products being made by American manufacturing. Well, if the products are that great, they should not have a hard time selling them and they should not need any help from the government.
Well some are selling very well. However in other segments it's hard to compete with child-labor and the wages some foreign country's allow to be paid to their citizens.
The bottom line is we can't compete with china, India, Banglesdesh, malaysia, etc who live in grass huts and eat snakes, dogs, monkey's, etc. :mad:
Rocky
Well, that kind of food is probably healthier than the stuff we get at McDonalds.
Yeah, I'm no fan of NAFTA/CAFTA. Our leaders should do what is best for US, not for other countries.
However, we sure like the cheap clothes that are made overseas. In that respect, our trade policies have made my life better.
I thought I read recently that the WTO is complaining about us giving our steel manufactures an unfair advantage in exporting our products. Our government is not anti-American.
What you call a "level playing field' might also be called "protectionism" by others. I am much to ignorant of the details to call it either way.
Yeah but McDonalds is more expensive and yes it tastes better. :P
Yeah, I'm no fan of NAFTA/CAFTA. Our leaders should do what is best for US, not for other countries.
Yeah they are cowards in suits looking for the next corporation to give them enough money to get elected and still have the morales to lie to us and tell us that they care about country & citizen. :mad:
However, we sure like the cheap clothes that are made overseas. In that respect, our trade policies have made my life better.
Well I like buying American clothes such as King Louie, some Lucky, Carhardt, Union Jean, Nemeisis. I guess you get what you pay for. BTW- I really don't see a huge savings for Levis, Tommy Hilfiger, Gap, etc. I thought these foreign made clothes are suppose to be so darn cheap. :confuse: Could of fooled me.
I thought I read recently that the WTO is complaining about us giving our steel manufactures an unfair advantage in exporting our products. Our government is not anti-American.
Do we even have a steel manufactor anymore ????
Ok one darn industry, compared to Thousands of imports that have enjoyed years of unfair trade policy's. As far as I'm concerned they can kiss my behind !!!!! I say let them drink a 25% or better tariff and here them really whine. Hell they do it to us !!!!!!!!
What you call a "level playing field' might also be called "protectionism" by others. I am much to ignorant of the details to call it either way.
Well if that's what they want to label me, so be it. I actually care about this country and I'm sick of it's borders being over run with illegal aliens that come over here and have 20 kids and I got to front the bill. I'm sick of the Chinese having 4,000 known front company's stealing american military secrets, I'm sick of the UAE winning the contract to do security in my seaports, this is the most corrupt government in U.S. History. Both Democrats and Republicans !!!!!!!!!!!!
Rocky
I keep trying to recall some of the other items where the Japanese would dump the products to keep their factory producing even at a loss just to keep the jobs. Eventually they undercut and drove the US maker of that product out of business.
Those products were good, but they were copied and then undercut in sales price. All I read in the first article was that Bush was forming a committee. Where I work, a committee is how you bury a complaint. Although perhaps the committee is to see that any business who wants to move to China to be able to make more profit for the company gets government help in doing so--
Do you think the government is actually going to do something effective?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Well what do you think they are going to do with U.S. cars ???? Did you see that carbon copy Mercedes Benz S-Class (Chin-E class) :P car that they already made ????
It's under the worst cars forum. I told fintail he was going to buy one.
Dude on Lou Dobbs they had a report on the 4,000 known Chinese front company's here in the U.S.
This one Chinaman was trying to purchase a F-16 engine. Thankfully he got caught. BTW they said their is missing Top Secret military technology at some of these military bases and labs. "When you let the guy on your pouch, you might as well ask him to come in" :mad:
To much "outsoucing" is going to cost us more than money, but perhaps someday american lives. :sick:
Port Story http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11188272/#storyContinued
Rocky
News reports from Russia say GM's local partner Avtovaz is not happy with the venture and intends to buy out GM, or even force it out. A Reuters story on Friday said Avtovaz had stopped delivering parts to the Togliatti plant, which assembles the Chevrolet Niva utility vehicle and the Viva sedan. The plant has an annual capacity of 50,000 units. Last year, the partners sold 46,000 vehicles.
GM confirmed that production had stopped but declined to provide details.
Avtovaz is Russia's largest carmaker and builds the Lada passenger-car range at a separate facility, with annual production of around 700,000 vehicles.
What this means to you: GM is about to lose its ever precarious foothold in the Russian market.
I wonder if someday the Chinese government will kick U.S. company's out like the Russians are doing to GM ????
GM your better off at home !!!!
Rocky
Over 75% of Michiganders and a few other represenatives such as I from other states are say free trade is killing us
This might be something the Big 3 can rally around.
Rocky
We, espcially us in this DG, like to philosophize. However, when it comes down to it, most of us (Rocky excluded) make decisions in our own selfish best interest.
When someone (i.e. Asian countries) make good products and sell them cheaply, we selfish people are very happy. These are great days to be consumers.
To be prosperous in private enterprise, I guess you either have to 1) make existing products cheaper, or 2) develop new products.
Maybe the Asian countries are better at 1). That means America has to be better at 2) or we go downhill. Isn't that the Law of the Jungle?
Given a choice between no manufacturing jobs in the U.S. and higher prices, we stupidly choose lower prices instead of jobs. Japan? They do the opposite. 80% of everything they buy in Japan is made locally. Even when the imports aren't taxed, they still don't buy the products with a few exceptions in areas like food and automobiles(Mercedes and BMW especially).
We should have listened to Ross Perot. Free-trade is our ticket to becoming a third-world country. But did we? I mean the man only made billions on his own from scratch. Nah - we listened to career politicians instead. And our leaders still are not getting it that capatalism with absolutely no controls at all on it is the same as anarchy. They protect their industries and we are the only country that doesn't. They will literally eat us alive, one little speck at a time.
I want it to get better. But I don't honestly see how it can, because the average person lacks the will to do anything at all. Unless there's a real emergency, in which case, it's often too late.
And, yes, someday China may very well decide to close its doors. Kick us out - bye - all foriegners gone in a few days. We keep the patents, copyrights, technology, factories, and everything inside them. You get your shirts and a free plane ticket home.
That alone would be enough to send our economy into a depression for a decade or more, which would cripple our ability to do anything at all other than damage control. Hope there's not a war of any kind, because with a dead economy, everyone trading in euros instead of dollars, our credit and exchange rates shot, and every creditor calling in their debts at once... yeah - good luck funding any "war on terror". Or even keeping the power on.
We're playing a game with a loaded gun. Except every decade we put another bullet in the clyinder before we give it a spin. The politicians just don't understand how dangerous our free trade policies and "most favored nation" status that we give to China are. They don't think about the future. Or even care out it, as long as they have theirs.