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The Big 3 and the domestic issues that will affect them
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The car wasn't meant to be a sportster like the IS350. The Lucerne was suppose to be the Toyota Avalon, Lexus ES 330, slayer. The IS350's ride is a little too firm for me. I'd also take GM's Magnaride over anything Lexus offers since it's a happy medium. If I wanted to smoke a IS 350 or any other asian car for that matter like it was standing still, I'd just buy a CTS-V. I will also note that the "IS" is made for people that are about the size of a pee wee herman :P funny but a fact. Putting an Adult in the backseat should be against the law. :surprise:
This is why the Lucerne is a true player in the entry lux field. It might not be everyones cup of tea, but it will be a favorite at most tables
Rocky
Entry Lux. $38K. Depreciates like week old socks. Check.
I think I'll pass. Bet it uses DexCool as well. Lol.
Entry Lux. $38K. Depreciates like week old socks. Check.
I agree!! My chin hit the floor when I saw the sticker price. I wouldn't pay 38k for any GM product because they depreciate too fast.
Let's keep the hyperbole to "more tasteful than a Lexus ES", instead of "Better/Prettier than anything". Don't blow too hard on that pipe, friend. Remember Richard Pryor, R.I.P.
$38k is a lot for ANY Domestic FWD, Cadillac included.
If it held value like a Honda/Toyota, than you might have something.
The next ES350 will have similar power anyway. It has earned the right to ask for $38k with a straight face
DrFill
The ES and Avalon are nice cars. My opinion comparing all 3 is the Buick is the nicest of the bunch. I don't think the Lucerne will depreciate as fast as ya'll think. It speaks quality in a big way. I reccomend anyone to atleast check one out if your looking for a nice sedan with decent power and a smooth ride. The CXS has lots of premium features. The Avalon I priced up was almost $40K. :confuse:
Rocky
Terry.
Something unique is all I'm saying !!! I'd leave the Lacrosse as a FWD. Make the Velite Roadster, on the Sigma or Zeta platform with a high performance sedan version. Something like a Lexus IS/GS or Acura RLish.
Rocky
Let's say 1 year from today, you see one "pre-owned" for $29,995 with 13k on it, it'll sell in less than a month? Or will it become like furniture?
I don't see spending $30k for a used Buick either, don't care what's on it.
Especially with the "fire sales" still pretty consistent.
DrFill
Some think Titleist make the best, some will argue that Callaway is the "fat daddy" and then you have the guy 3 doors away that swears by the Ping product, and they all probably have a 20 handicap ..l.o.l.. .... it's personal thing, like cars.
Nobody knows what the Lucerne will do in 10/20 months, we'll leave that up to the folks with the crystal ball ... but as a whole, Buicks have enjoyed very high resale values - whether "you" like or dislike the product is not important.
Terry.
Rocky
Honda, OTOH, offers the options as a trim level with no alterations. GM and many others could learn something from this. One looks good in ads but really fools nobody and the other insures the car will keep its value better.
Buick will scrap both the Rendezvous and Rainier when the 2008 Enclave debuts.
And the rumors are that the next generation LaCrosse will be on GM's FWD Epsilon II platform (around 2010) and that the next generation Lucerne will be on the RWD Zeta platform.
The dynamics of the car will change, and it will alienate anyone who buys it in FWD.
Kind of underscores the point of it being too expensive as a domestic FWD, no?
Someday, it aspires to be RWD!
DrFill
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060102/FREE/51229003/1008
Terry.
Frankly, although I like RWD for pure driving fun, traction control and stability control do NOT make it the equal of FWD in the snow. It's pure physics - weight on the driving wheels. The only thing I've ever seen that makes RWD decent in the snow is winter tires, but then you have to go through that hassle and expense every year.
I can look in the local free ad rags and find 05 LeSabres for 15K-ish and loaded 05 Lacrosse for 17-18K - and that's with wheels, leather, moonroof, etc.
It also seems like alotta Germans get by with RWD in snowy conditions.
Rocky
Neways a great article I posted in the GM styling forum.
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060103/AUTO04/601030331/1148- /AUTO01
It's about high tech gadgets being the means for success.
Rocky
The problem may not be the quality and reliability of the Lucerne and other new well-built models. The problem likely will be the panic selling/discounting that pervades the whole corporation. If you buy a Lucerne at a fair price now and in 3 months when the sales dept realizes that inventory is backing up again.. down goes the price. Anyone who bought this month or last takes it in the neck. The value of today's purchase is $x lower than what they thought it was.
And the vehcile may be world class in every other way.
Yes, but the Europeans that have to deal with snow regularly probably have winter tires.
Yes, but the Europeans that have to deal with snow regularly probably have winter tires.
Well that is certainly one smart thing they do. I have went from FWD to RWD (snow tires on both), and my RWD car (05 GTO) tracks and handles way better than my old FWD car (99 Grand Prix) ever did in the snow. I also drove a couple other FWD cars in the last couple snows with their stock all seasons, and the lack of traction with the all seasons is just plain scary after having driven with dedicated snow tires.
I would have preferred that Chrysler try to recapture the glittery grace of the 1955-56 models or the low-slung, exuberant outrageousness of the 1957-59 models.
Andre, I really don't like this new Imperial. I'd take a 300C or a Charger any day. It looks too big and blocky.
Very elegant looking IMO. Limited customer base is my guess as to why it will never see the showroom floor.
GM, I'd like to see offer is alot more attractive leases. You see the asians, and europeans offer this more than the domestics. Like a Caddy STS AWD V8 for $548 @ 48 months with $4600 down
(I'm comparing it to the Escalade lease) Even @ $599 and I'd buy one
Yes I'm not sure what GM will beable to do to stop rapid depreciation on some models. In Dallas you can buy a new 2005 Cadillac Deville starting at $22K. My god how much off ? That's like over $20K off on a base "stripped" model.
Trust me I've considered buying a 05' Deville.
The Lucerne I looked at had 18 inch rims/tires that where chromed. Heck the door handles, ventiports, grill, etc were chromed.
Loren, your "old school" in your thinking.
Your like the majority of folks over 40 yrs old that want plain Jane automobiles. Your lucky I don't work for GM. I'd outlaw base model cars :surprise:
Rocky
One sausage, three lengths (i.e. BMW 3,5,7 or MB C,E,S).
Chrysler shouldn't try multisharing that 300 box too many ways. I see a few Chargers around but not many. They have sold a ton of those 300s, though. What happens when people start trading them in?
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
GM takes a platform and makes a mid-sized sedan for Buick, Chevrolet and Pontiac, and they are basically the same car.
GM's way doesn't work, but I am not sold on Nissan's way either. You end up with a sports car that is too heavy and an SUV that isn't really space efficient or capable of any significant offroad activity.
Of course when the transmissions start failing in the Hondas, they all look the same.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
I wonder if this would make for the smaller trucks and SUVs to be bigger and heavier than they would have been if they were all-new, independent designs?
Nissan also goes a little nuts with that VQ engine. Do they offer anything other than a Sentra and a Q45 without it?
Well, GM already did that. Have you seen a Rendezvous? It looks like someone took a clay model of a GM minivan and hacked off a little bit here and there with a butcher knife. Same with an Aztek. I don't think people even know that these are supposed to be SUVs. They just see them as ugly minivans.
The Pilot might not be the most rugged crossover, but it hides its roots far better.