Did you recently take on (or consider) a loan of 84 months or longer on a car purchase?
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
A reporter would like to speak with you about your experience; please reach out to PR@Edmunds.com by 7/25 for details.
Options
The Big 3 and the domestic issues that will affect them
This discussion has been closed.
Comments
Boy alot going on in the auto-world !!!!! :surprise:
Rocky
Rocky
Yep, Delphi caved to the UAW and all deals are off. Looks like GM is going to be in the market for scabs/new workers soon.
Definately the beginning of the end for GM.
Anyway, take those "whatever of the year" awards with a grain of salt. Usually MT will pick whatever vehicle they think is most "significant" or "groundbreaking" and is a new design that year. That doesn't mean it's necessarily going to be the best seller, most reliable, best for everybody's needs, etc.
I kind of like them, but I am not crazy about the looks.
Mariner Hybrid was done last year with the Escape HB, and the new GMT900's can't qualify till next year. I can't think of too many offering that could challenge the Ridge for the title.
The point about the Ridge is that it is a first entry into the arena and an important vehicle to the Honda lineup. It may not work for diehard truck buyers, and it doesn't have to. It is however a SIGNIFICANT entry. And it has garnered enough attention, good and bad to make the truck world TAKE NOTICE.
One thing that did impress me about the Ridgeline is that it seemed roomier inside than the likes of the Dakota, Frontier, and Tacoma. IMO the Ridgeline kind of slots between these trucks and real full-sized trucks. It's definitely close to full-sized in width, although it's fairly short overall. IIRC the Ridgeline is only something like 207" long overall, which is about the length of a crew-cab Colorado. A Silverado crew cab is something like 230" long!
The Ridgeline is very space-efficient. Good jack-of-all-trades type of vehicle.
The Colorado/Canyon is a joke. Too small, measly gas mileage from the oddball I5, and a (typical GM) interior that is about 10 cents more expensive than the outgoing S10. I guess maybe the H3 could have been a contender, but that sucker is about 40 grand and is still running the goofy I5, but with more added weight. Had they brought the diesel to the table at introduction, they probably could have garnered the top spot IMO.
My guess is had the Ridge had a bowtie on the front, it would be much more accepted and all the GM diehards would be applauding MotorTrend instead of accusing it of Bias.
Supossedly there is one in the works for the H3, but I haven't heard of one in the works for anybody else. I'm surprised the Dakota doesn't have one (last I checked) since the Liberty diesel is supposed to be quite a gem. :confuse:
IIRC, the Dakota is also pretty heavy for its class.
Or maybe an SRT is in the works as this generation ages?
An outstanding vehicle. Smooth, quiet, excellent ride. Build and materials were very good. Only knock on it was the power from the 3.5l, not scary slow, but my wifes MDX will leave it in the dust. THere is a ton of front end plow in the corners and some of the "Chrome Trim" was peeling away on the rear hatch. Still, not a bad ride at all, another example of domestics "getting it". I'd definitely consider it if I were in the market.
Just a quick observation in case anyone was interested... :shades:
The v6 Tacoma & Frontier just smoked the v8 Dakota in towing and non towing acceleration, and got better economy. The hemi would solve the power issue, but not to much for fuel economy. I don't know what it is with Dodge trucks and SUVs but they generally get worse fuel economy than the competition.
Also, I've the 3.7 any is certainly is far from impressive, something that can be said of most 90 degree v6s. I'm disapointed they are using this engine the Cherokee now as well. No way would I pay $30k for a Cherokee with that engine, the 4.7 would certainly be better.
Sounds like something my friend's 4-Runner has none of. While the 4-Runner isn't a Pacifica in many ways, the fact that he's had no problems in over two years with his Toyota is amazing. He takes it off-road about every week and is much less than compliant with servicing and maintaining it. Yet it's a tank.
Some brands are made better than others, no question about it.
I believe that the 3.7 is a sawed off 4.7 and is a 90 degree V6.
>>I also feel this forum will be addicting to all that love and care about the American Auto Industry as much as I.
>>I want this forum to be open minded. I don't care if you're pro or against unions. Tell us why ?
I am pro union. Why? Because i'm a green party [non-permissible content removed]. Why else? Because the worker can negotiates wages and benefits in union. I like the idea of the hard working people getting some kind of health care benefits or some sort of retirement fund.
New York is getting strike and you guys might complain about it. But those people are just fighting to keep their health benefit and retirement plan.
Think about it.
Work for a company for 5 plus years don't you want a retirement plan? Or wait wait dont' you want some health benefit? I think everyone want one. I ain't selling the idea of Union but just saying what my point of view is. And I don't care if they disagree with it because I think union is pretty damn fair. Because everyone wants health care benefit, some sort of fair wage, and retirement plan if you stay with a company for most of yer life.
>>I wanna know what's effecting the auto industry, and why they are struggling ?
The reason why the auto industry is struggling can be contributed to all sort of problems. The number one reason is image. The domestic car images does not reflect of what today people want to see. Buick conjure up images of old people driving it. Corvette conjures images of aging white people trying to look young and so on. I also see that the Japanese counter part have like certain flaws while the American car companies have not certain flaws but numerous. Toyota got no sport cars but they got reliablity, a lot of model to choose from (options), technologies (is350 v6 got over 300 hp), and interior qualities (interior of lexus cars). As for well Ford they got not one image but to many images that is cluttering. They bought Volvo and Mazda (most shares of mazda stocks anyway). Are they trying to be European? Japanese? Not only that their iconic mustang model went in a slump. New model mustang is nice looking but it doesn't help using ancient suspension technology just for the nostalgic feelings.
As a whole the auto industry is facing the fact that the cost of oil is rising and that America is too dependent on Oil. Maybe we should tax gas? That'll force auto companies to look for alternative. Norway is taxing their gas and saving those taxes for future generation. The problem is everybody think of me me now now and they don't think about the future.
>> Is it democrats or republicans that are helping or hurting the auto industry and it's suppliers ?
Republican is hurting the auto industry. No offence to those republican out there. But they pushes for more reliance on oils than looking for alternatives. Ted Stevens R Alaska wants to dril oil in Alaska! To so call lessen our depedent on foreign oil. It doesn't really help they tried it. They drilled in the North side of Alaska (I believe it's the North Side) for oil and now oil reserve there is depleting and I don't see any less depency for foreign oil out of this drilling in Alaska. Now they wants to drill every where else in Alaska.
Anyway both domocrats and republican are driven by major companies. Both are bribe and etc by companies with the money. Both hurt the auto industry one way or another. I can't think of a specific democrat one but I'm sure someone else knows of one.
You should include the green party. They want to find a alternative fuel etc...
Are you Pro or Anti NAFTA/CAFTA ?
I'm anti NAFTA and Cafta and any other free trade agreement. Both are the products of globalization. Which they see where the globe is one huge Market where they can allocate resources better. Sounds nice huh? but the fact is with this allocating of resources to better place means out sourcing jobs. Opponent to this view can say, well it's a free market and if a company want to ship jobs somewhere else they should do it. My problem with that is the fact that we're loosing jobs. Technology jobs are shipped to India. That's the reason why I decided not to pursue a Comp Sci BS degree any more. Manufacturing jobs are shipped to China. Some people are thinking so what? So this is a problem because I'm loosing my job to other countries because the labor is cheaper. Not only the labor is cheaper but those companies that are outsourcing jobs are paying a wages that are below minimum wages in those countires. Like 25 cent an hour for those computer programmer in India. Mind as well buy a $300 shoes that took nike less than $1 to make by some kid in cambodia and show off to your buddies. "Hey man a kid lost a finger to make me these shoes. Isn't this kewl?!"
Trade Agreement takes down tariff. Alot of companies are pushing these political parties to vote for it. You can see what they can benefit with it. They (American companies) can have the cheap labor in other countires and import their goods to USA without the Tariff.
It's a double edge sword because it's a win for consumer since they get cheaper stuff since some [non-permissible content removed] bag is getting pay 3 cent or so to make it compare to USA where minimum wage (federal minimum wage not your state) is $5 something. But! If you don't outsource those stuff, people can have more money in hand and can buy stuff which stimulate the economy.
>>>"I just want a forum that we can debate a wide range of issues. Not only just GM/Delphi, but also about Ford and Chrysler too.
Mercede is Chrysler sex slave. And chrysler in my opinion killed mercede styles, images, and looks.
>>I also don't care if we talk about BIG 3 cars too.
BIG 3 should stop buying car companies. I don't know why GM bought Daewoo or Kia or Hyundai but I predict GM might go into bankrupcy and there will be no more GM. That's more of a Economist point of view, GM=bankruptcy, unless they change. The Saturn Sky and the GM Solstice is kinda kewl and a fresh new image and thinking outside the box. The Saturn Sky (not a great name why Nissan got the skyline) is a great roaster with a econ engine. Roaster with a eco engine is great becase today acronym is more in line with MPG than HP. BIG 3 should fix flaws AND concentrate on their car companies individualy not as a whole and fix it. If Nissan can do it, god they're so sexy, then Big 3 can do it too. Nissan in the early 90s was going bankrupt. Now they're rebounding and the luxury line is rebounding too (go test drive m45 or m35 or g35 or skyline later on 2007 or 2oo8). Maybe the BIG 3 should kidnapped Carlos Goshen.
>>>I know personally I will enjoy Edmunds even more. Wait is that possible ???
I guess. I dunno.
Andre,
The 3.7 is based off the 4.7, and doesn't inherit any of the smoothness of the 4.7. At least not in the Liberty's I've driven.
Some Points:
- It's Carlos Ghosn
- GM can't support or manage the 7 brands (Saturn?)it had, much less buy other companies to run!
- It took 'Yota 25 years to get this far. It may take half that for the Ford and GM to win back America's trust. That means build two CONSECUTIVE generations of a quality, appealing car! :mad:
- Not only has Toyota got the top of the mountain covered (Lexus), but Scion is one HOT brand! With a crappy 106HP engine! If they put the Corolla engine in the xA and xB, they'd double sales! The coupe is 50% of their business because it has the right engine.
- More good management, why didn't GM reform Pontiac with fresh ideas like Toyota/Scion?
- I hope Scion comes out with that Toyota RSC concept from 2001 someday. :shades:
- No Hemis in midsize trucks. Why would you buy the $30k Ram if it's in a $23k Dakota? Think people. It's Dodge's job to keep weight down, or improve the venerable 4.7L. They CHOSE to do neither. They did make it ugly though...
DrFill
If we allow the domestic car makers to die, then there will be a huge unfunded liability that the taxpayers will likely have to absorb. Why do you think the government bailed out Chrysler back in the early 80's (late 70's?). They didn't want to insure the pensioners and displaced workers.
The Koreans have been at car making only about 25 years and already their quality is passing up the domestics, who have been at it for a century. It is embarassing as an American.
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Rocky
Wasn't Chrysler sold to Dieter and monkey in Stuttgart over a decade ago? If your counting them because of the amount of production done in the US, where does Toyota or Honda come in?
Toyota and Honda do alot of production in the U.S.
I however am not a big proponent of them because they are anti-union company's. The workers are paid decent, but don't have any type of recourse if they voice a opinion and get fired. The asian factory's benefits aren't exactly great for a multi-billion dollar company. The workers are basically the only way that money is going to stay here, versus going back to Japan. I feel we as Americans better wake up and see what's happening in our country before it's too late. GM, Ford, Chrysler, do have do have some big domestic issues. We as a society, however are telling them to fix it on their own and if they pack up and move the factory's to foreign lands, so be it. :sick:
Rocky
Boy you have a fleet of cars and are thinking about a DTS too ???....Whoa !!!
I like the DTS alot actually. I just (wished) it had the 5.1 Bose available.
I would also "prefer" AWD and 400+ hp. so it was a bit quicker. I love the room in the DTS, since I'm 6'2 250lbs. I also have a wife and 2 kids.
I really like the Cadillac brand like you and can't wait for the next CTS and CTS-V. I still haven't recieved any up to date info on MSRP's for the new Escalade. If the MSRP for a fully loaded one w/ Navi, 22's for under $65K it will be hard to turn one down for a attractive lease with a high residual
If you buy the DTS, lemme know all about it.
Thanx,
Rocky
:mad:
Rocky
Rocky
2. Fleet sales (rental agencies) Too many cars are sold to them and that creates a lot of used, probably not well maintained cars on the market, which creates huge depreciation.
3. Product quality and especially interior quality outside of 3-5 years warranty (which is another problem -- too short). The car may run, but the little things that annoys you (rattles, broken plastic..) might kill the whole pleasure experience.
4. Warranty. Simply too short. They must offer bigger warranty then their competitors in order to win back customers. Stand behind your products!
5. Price structure. Rebates are killing them! If you are walking into Ford or GM dealership you already expecting at least 3 to 5 thousands rebates even on the models that were just released! "Sale" or "discount" are words that associated with old, outdated or simply "nobody else want it" or "overproduced" products for American consumer. Price the car below then its competitors and offer no rebates that way it should be.
I think that what must change (along with other things that I did not list here) in order for big 3 to be successful.
Well, I'm not sure I'm going to get a DTS, (or any other car) in the immediate future, but by the end of the summer, who knows? I'm very happy with my current car and would feel foolish trading it. It's amazing how much one has when he's not making a car payment.
Some things bother me about the DTS. I'm not too happy giving up 25 hp compared to my current ride. I also wish they would've made this car AWD or RWD as well.
I also looked at the Buick Lucerne. One huge gripe I have is that there is only one strut supporting the hood when it is raised. That, to me, is a cheap cop-out on behalf of GM. I think they can ration out another hood strut at that price point!
Rocky
planes, then perhaps cars
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051230/AUTO01/51229047/1148
Rocky
Rocky
Well Toyota if you win the #1 title this year, plan on giving it back in 2007
My Lucerne report card:
Exterior Styling A+
Interior Styling A+
Engine B+ (due to only 275 hp out of Northstar)
Suspension A+
Rims/Tires A+
Creature Features and Technology A-/B+
Notes: Would of liked RWD or AWD.
I'd also liked to see on the CXS a DVD 5.1-7.1 Surround Sound System. Voice Recognition with the Navigation. 6-speed automatic.(next yr.)
320 hp. (STS) Northstar version of the engine
This car will be perfect for someone who wants a big roomy, safe, affordable semi-sport luxury vehicle, that can beat Lexus/Toyota in most area's.
Rocky
I liked the car in general. It was extremely roomy, very powerful. I didn't even notice the 25 hp deficit over my Seville. I liked the design of the round gauges with the circular pattern in the background. This car had cooled seats which my car lacks. I could see those coming in handy when commuting in hot weather in a business suit.
This car had big 18" wheels shod by low-profile Bridgestone Torenza tires. This one also had ultrasonic parking assist with the sensors so stealthily built into the bumper you could barely see them.
Some things bothered me about the Lucerne. I prefer the foot-operated parking brake, but I wished they'd have made it auto-releasing like on my Seville. There also wasn't a "scan" button on the radio. I would definately miss that. Radio is so crappy these days and my arm gets tired hitting the "seek" button for half an hour before either the commercials on a favorite station end or that somebody plays a decent song. Also, I hope that is real wood trim. I couldn't tell. I mentioned the single hood strut earlier.
This is dumb, but I also miss the wood trim on the steering wheel as on my Seville.
Rocky