Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave

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Comments

  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I think we agree on this. You are referring to high level vehicles such as the Tahoe and 300. These buyers buy to be seen and want the best.

    I was referring to mundane run of the mill cars like Camry/Accord/Aura/What ever. Most buyers of these cars for transportation and want good features but will not pay $35k.
  • nxs138nxs138 Member Posts: 481
    I kinda agree. I don't think many will pay low/mid 40's for a loaded Acadia, when that kind of money gets you into a well-equipped MDX or Q7, for example, which will have better interior quality (I was semi-disappointed with all the hard plastics used inside the Acadia).
  • crossover2crossover2 Member Posts: 25
    Immensely flattered!
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I bet the ATP (average transaction price) will be around $35k or so.

    I checked out the no haggle pricing at Edmunds and they will sell a whole bunch of XE 2wd's at about $30,240 and then a whole bunch of XR 4wd at about $38,000.

    The first is a nicely equipped cloth interior and the 2nd a nicely equipped 4WD XR with the leather. Dealers will probably primarily stock the XR's with a few XE's in the first year and then start ordering more cloth cars later.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I did not bother to price these packages out. These are what the Product Managers at Saturn suggest the dealers order for their dealership stock that will meet the needs of most customers. These will be the vehicles you will find in large numbers at the dealerships. After about 6 months of sales they will look at what customers actually bought and adjust the packages.

    http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/patternorder.jsp?year=2007&regionID=1&- - - divisionID=10&vehicleID=4434&modelID=7371

    http://eogld.ecomm.gm.com/NASApp/domestic/patternorder.jsp?year=2007&regionID=1&- - - divisionID=10&vehicleID=4434&modelID=7372

    I priced out the AWD XR and it was $35K.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    An Outlook XR for $38,000? Cars.com shows the MSRP to be $31,555 for an AWD XR, so are there $6500 worth of options added to the XR?
  • jd14jd14 Member Posts: 128
    Yes, the XR can easily reach $6500 in options. In fact, the range for the XR AWD is about $32K-$42K. The reason that it has so many things as options is so that it can appeal to a wider range of potential buyers. Those who aren't big on all the gadgets and technology can get a base for slightly over $30K and those who want everything and like the Outlook styling can load it up with $6K-$10K in options.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    You do have a point, Vette. But i think this is one of the very few reasons where the outcome is different. How many people would rather have an Acadia/Outlook(which has nicer interior) than a Q7 say Aye. let me tell you guys- if i'm spending over 38 grand I am not buying any crossover. I'm getting a Yukon XL loaded. MAybe an R class. But (and no offense) I would not pay over 40 for an MDX. It's a nice vehicle-but why pay high for lesser known when you can get name brand?I guess this proves your point!
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    albook, The Acadia/Outlook/Enclave do seem to be awesome vehicles, but most people value Audi Q7s and Acura MDXs over what GM puts out (reputation). And, your point about the YukonXL is totally off the mark (unless towing), since a late-model CUV beats any framed SUV any day of the week in nearly all measures of merit. Witness the current Ford Explorer, about the best you can do in a framed SUV, a good vehicle, but its handling suffers from a high-cg and a low-stiffness body-on-frame setup. Go with uni-bodies, dude.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    I checked the specs of the Yukon XL...I don't know why anyone would want a vehicle that big (unless they need to tow something over 3500lbs) when they can get an AWD Toyota Sienna that has more interior space for both passengers (3rd row) and cargo (max) and it's 2' shorter and 2000lbs lighter! I think that regardless of price, a lot of people don't want to drive something as big as a Yukon.
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    I know a lot of people don't. But It looks Good!! And my uncle has a boat. And no guy really wants a minivan. You have a Sienna, don't you! But my point is I'm not paying over 40g's unless i'm getting real luxury. Acura doesn't do that for me.

    Seriously, though- how many want a Q7 over an Acadia?
  • sasukesasuke Member Posts: 77
    Has any new news been released for the Acadia/Outlook? Accurate time of when it hits dealerships?
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    crossover2, The lambdas have to be able to stand up to comparisons. Thats the only way to really grade GM in the market. People are inclined to be a little suspicious of GM iron, though, due to their history of stinkers (Aztek, Lumina, Envoy, etc.). That being said, the Lambdas are shaping up to be a winner. GM could redeem themselves here. Their engine is stellar, transmission great, fuel economy excellent for its size, and roominess is hard to beat. If you want big, only the Pacifica is wider in that price class. If you don't need quite that much size, an XL-7 or a Freestyle are only slightly less spacious inside, cheaper, and less thirsty. If big SUV owners trade in their Yukon/Suburbans/Expeditions for the new Acadia/Outlook/Enclave in mass, then this country will rely less on Middle Eastern oil. (18/26 city/hiway Acadia FWD) Mini-vans do beat just about anything for size/efficiency. Real men don't need to worry about compensating with a heavier vehicle, but we understand if you do.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    And, your point about the YukonXL is totally off the mark (unless towing),

    What he said was HE would rather have the Yukon XL so he was giving his opinion and up to a year or so ago the Suburbans and Yukons were selling much better than any vehicle out there other than a Camry or Accord. Times have changed due to mpg but most would still want the large old truck if mpg was not an issue. Sales do not lie. Folks love to drive the big trucks for many reasons. Whether safety, looks or whatever. Hopefully the Lamdas will satisfy this market and sell.
  • dmathews3dmathews3 Member Posts: 1,739
    There going to be real slow for a while. Remember no work during the Thanksgiving long, long weekend plus there is the up coming Xmas shutdown that is almost another 2 weeks so Jan. for a few to hit the showrooms is understandable. Plus it could be the first part of the year before they get cranked up to full speed and maybe even later.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Member Posts: 702
    I certainly would not classify the current GMC Envoy as a "Stinker". It will tow far more than any of these new Lambdas and the regular length version was and is still quite attractive. It appeals to a different market segment, but for those of us who still have to tow these wimpy new crossovers (from any manufacturer) just don't cut it. I would love it if the Enclave could tow my boat, but it can't. Looks like I'll keep my "stinker" Envoy for another 5 years.
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    Enclave/Outlook/Acadia will tow up to 4500 lbs. How big of a boat do you have, anyway? The QEII? The Envoy tows up to 6300 lbs, but how many people need over about 3000 lbs, anyway?

    Granted, the Envoy is not too bad. Just nowhere near the handling + fuel economy + acceleration combination that the Lambda triplets have. Framed vehicles are at a disadvantage in almost every way possible.
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    sasuke, In post #926 you asked about delivery dates of the Lambdas. Does that mean your dealer in NY is wrong about the mid-Dec date he gave you (in your post #846)?
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    And, your point about the YukonXL is totally off the mark (unless towing), since a late-model CUV beats any framed SUV any day of the week in nearly all measures of merit.

    where did you get that from? A yukon xl beats everything except minivans in everything except gas mileage. Xl has 3 more in. leg room in third row, and 4in. second row. Also almost 20 ft more cargo space! Explorer is far from the best you can do for framed SUv. And q7 has gotten a bad rep and doesnt handle well.
  • jd14jd14 Member Posts: 128
    Yeah, and it's 220 inches long!

    What he means is in terms of space efficiency and driving dynamics a CUV KILLS a framed SUV. If you were to stretch the Enclave/Outlook/Acadia 20 inches, legroom would be like 42/42/40 and cargo would be like 50 cubic ft; which makes the Yukon's dimensions look like crap.
  • hardhawkhardhawk Member Posts: 702
    Our 22' boat(empty) & trailer total a little over 5000#. I would prefer to have a unibody vehicle and would love to have the Enclave or Acadia. But, even when they add the V8 to the Enclave in a year it will still not have the structure (frame) to pull the boat. Our I6 Envoy does just fine with it with 270HP and our 340HP Dodge Magnum Hemi, while having plenty of engine to tow, does not have the structure (frame) either. Wish the Lambdas had a beefier structure that would allow then to work for me. My only other choice is a full size pickup or huge SUV. Will be interesting to see what the new Toyota Sequoia (based on the upcoming new Tundra platform)will look like in comparison to the huge GM, Ford & Nissan SUV's. If we upgrade to a 25' boat in a year or two, we will have to go with one of the giants.
  • sasukesasuke Member Posts: 77
    Well I just can't take what they say seriously because i've spoken to 3-4 dealerships and they all give different times...so I don't know what to think.

    It's just rough has hell right now because I needed to have an SUV about 2-3 weeks ago and i'm still waiting.

    Only other option I feel is the Pilot, but the interior bugs me, so damn boring.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    There will be a bunch out there by mid December. Not all dalers will have them. We know they just went into production last week or so so the numbers in the field will not be a lot.
  • coldcrankercoldcranker Member Posts: 877
    Framed vehicles (i.e., Yukon, Explorer, etc.) vs. uni-body CUVs: In a framed vehicle, handling, fuel economy, acceleration, braking all suffer compared to a uni-body. Certainly, as others have mentioned, space efficiency is a problem in framed vehicles. Crash protection is usually better in a large unibody as well. For example, take a look at the Vehicle Ratings at www.iihs.org and see the pictures of the cabs and A-pillars after frontal offset crashes at only 35 mph and notice how, for example, a pickup truck cab can collapse. Not always, but notably, the Chevy pickups and related SUVs do poorly, for example. Ford's F-150 is an exception (does well), but the point is that the structure above the frame doesn't have to be as strong as in a unibody like the Lambdas and its easier to build in crumple zones when there's no frame rails in the way.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    Can anyone confirm the 3rd row on these SUVs does really fold flat or is there still a bump up over them when they are folded? I can't see to find a picture on either the Acadia or Outlook sites.

    thx
  • arumagearumage Member Posts: 922
    I don't really have any experience with these in particular, but I have driven the new Santa Fe and Explorer. Both of those vehicles fold completely flat in the 3rd row, but the 2nd rows don't fold absolutely flat. They both angle up very slightly.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    Well the second row I am not worried about, I just need the 3rd row to fold flat (or very close). Our business needs the space and we are looking at Outlook/Acadia as a van replacement.
  • 07xle07xle Member Posts: 177
    If you can't find the interior pic on the GMC site or the animation showing the seats folding down, then ...........................
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    Good point there-but seriously, no on's going to extend a crossover that much. And if i was really going for performance, i could pay 45-46g sale price and get a Denali. 0-60 is suposed to be 6.3 sec. but again- this is comparing apples to oranges. (Good looking Fruit!) I still haven't seen anything on new Pilot. But it's gotta be close. Maybe Detroit show concept.
  • jd14jd14 Member Posts: 128
    Enclave info's almost here!
    Additionally, I find it funny how Saturn is already advertising the Outlook across the web when they don't even have a build your own section on their website yet.
  • jacko15jacko15 Member Posts: 8
    There are pictures at this link:
    http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=116089#4
    They seem to show a really nice and flat cargo space the whole way through when all seats are folded down. It's my understanding that you can lay a 4x8 sheet of plywood in there.
  • vanman1vanman1 Member Posts: 1,397
    Thank you, that is exactly what I wanted to see. These vehicles will definitely be on our shop list next year.

    Wonder why GMC and Saturn don't have that shot on their web sites?? I can't be the only one looking for a feature like this.
  • pigpig Member Posts: 98
    Thanx Jacko15...that was kind of you... this is one of the primary purposes of this forum and so glad to see it used in it's purest form. Genuine queries with genuine responses.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Just remember the Enclave photos on Edmunds are from the show car one year ago. Seats, I believe, are also from non captains chairs. Not sure if captains chairs fold flat. Folding flat compromises comfort. Sit in the back of a T & C sometime.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    2008 Enclave crossover is targeted at Acura MDX and Lexus RX 330 buyers.

    While the Enclave will be larger, Buick's crossover will carry a "lower price than those vehicles," said Steve Shannon, Buick general manager. The Enclave will debut this week at the Los Angeles auto show.

    The Enclave is one of three new mid-sized crossovers General Motors is developing on the automaker's new front-drive Lambda vehicle architecture. All-wheel drive is available. The vehicles can seat seven or eight, depending on seat configuration.

    The 2007 Saturn Outlook and 2007 GMC Acadia precede the Buick version. Enclave sales are to begin in late spring. It has unique styling and does not share its greenhouse and exterior panels with the Saturn and GMC models.

    "This class of vehicles, these Lambdas, are the biggest car-based (crossovers) out there. So to that extent, it is a little bit uncharted waters," said Shannon. "We will probably get more people out of vans than come out of mid-sized utes."

    Shannon was interviewed at an Enclave preview earlier this month at GM's proving grounds in Milford, Mich.

    The Lambda-based crossovers have a long wheelbase for a mid-sized crossover - 118.9 inches. The wheelbase enhances second-row legroom. Power comes from GM's 3.6-liter V-6 engine, mated to the automaker's new six-speed automatic.

    Shannon said the Lucerne and the Enclave are re-establishing Buick around several key fundamentals. Among them: quality, interior refinement and craftsmanship, technology that is powerful yet simple to use, and what Shannon says is an interior with "a library kind of quietness. Intense engineering is done to get us quiet tuning."

    Shannon said the Enclave "has a gorgeous outside shape, is elegant, has a lot of jewelry. This is basically a luxury car that just happens to seat seven or eight."
  • bobfishbobfish Member Posts: 48
    I have been looking at the Outlook,pricing it with the options I would want it came to 35,300.00.My understanding about Saturn is there is a no haggle price,does that mean you pay msrp for their cars?
  • brutus22brutus22 Member Posts: 122
    Hello,

    I am also curious about this. I did a price comparison between the Acadia and the Outlook on Edmunds, if you take the same options on both you are talking about the same price, but if the listed price on Saturn is what you actually pay then Acadia seems like a better deal if you are able to haggle.

    Thanks,
    B.
  • jacko15jacko15 Member Posts: 8
    I agree. What I'd really like to see is an Acadia at the dealer. I also want the flat cargo space, but I'm also going for the eight passenger seating, with second row bench. Nothing I can find shows that configuration. All we really have to look at is pre-production stuff, but I guess we have to look at that and hope the real thing lives up to the hype. Here's a link to some more pics from this summer. I really like what I see, but you never know quite what will show up on the lot. http://www.autoblog.com/2006/07/12/2007-gmc-acadia-revealed/
  • albookalbook Member Posts: 1,282
    We will probably get more people out of vans than come out of mid-sized utes.

    I hope you know they were being overly optimistic about this comment. Well- actually they might be right. THose ugly vans SUCK. The third row seats don't even recline!!! But so many will come down from the Envoys and trailblazers because these were the best things on thier market at the time. No one else had a more comfortable 3rd row in a midsize SUV. And though size was long and narrow, they got better mileage than full size SUV options. But they have drawbacks that Lambdas will make up for. Like why would Ibuy a long Envoy (longer than expedition!!) when I can get more room and better mileage? You guys who have them tow. But many ownwers are women with kids who don't need that ability. GM understands this, and though they won't say it outloud, they are well prepared. ENvoy remoldel was resceduled from this summer to next fall, and downgraded to a freshening. And you know after this year the XL is gone. They should totally cancel the trailblazer as it is ugly, and why have two of your own competing in the same market? They should do like with future minivans and focus on one model.
  • jd14jd14 Member Posts: 128
    You've survived the wait...well, sort of. Tommorow you'll find out what it looks like along with the price of the vehicle, options, etc.

    Now all I have to do is wait for the Enclave Super or whatever they're going to call the V8 model. What do you guys think, another year?
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I bought the last XL built on the line back quite a few months ago. Its not been built for about a year now.

    Love my truck but an Enclave would do everything I need and more. Have to wait a few years to get it. :cry:

    Future of mid SUV's is up in air. I think they are waiting to see how the Lamdas do.

    So if you want to tow you get a Tahoe/Suburban. If you want to carry you get a Lamda. Seems like a great combo to me.

    As of October GM has sold 225K mid size SUV's so it is one plant. Was 325K last year at this time(2 plants). So if they can keep a plant open they will keep it going. I would say that if in one year they still sold one plants worth a year (250K) and gas stays near $2.25 they would do a refresh (interior and exterio) on the Chevy and GMC short versions.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    I also want the flat cargo space, but I'm also going for the eight passenger seating, with second row bench. Nothing I can find shows that configuration.

    Standard in outlook, optional on Acadia.

    7-passenger (2-2-3 seating configuration)
    1 - Includes 2nd row flat-folding Captains Chair.
    Standard on Acadia, optional on Outlook

    ABC Seating, 8-passenger (2-3-3 seating configuration)
    1 - Includes 2nd row 60/40 split flat-folding bench seat.
    Standard on Outlook, Optional on Acadia
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    And as we embark on the close of 2006, Buick will introduce the most significant product in recent memory – the 2008 Enclave luxury crossover SUV. The Enclave is Buick’s first luxury crossover and it is the perfect vehicle for the times. It has all the versatility, functionality, and roominess of a sport utility and the ride dynamics of a high-end luxury car. Then we add what I call the ‘Buickness’. The Enclave is library quiet, has a level of interior comfort and craftsmanship not witnessed in the segment, offers luxury-like features like a rear back-up camera and HID headlights that turn with the wheel, and technologies that are relevant and easy to use such as OnStar and XM Radio. This is all shrink-wrapped in a gorgeous exterior that’s romantic and timeless.
  • bobw3bobw3 Member Posts: 2,989
    Now's there's an objective car review if I ever heard one ;)
  • 14871487 Member Posts: 2,407
    The info is out today. Looks just like the concept vehicle.
  • 62vetteefp62vetteefp Member Posts: 6,043
    Sorry, I guess I did not say where it was from.

    Steve Shannon, General Manager of Buick.

    Hey, but it is all true! :P
  • pigpig Member Posts: 98
    Really super information for me on msgs 959 - 962! It really narrows it down to the Outlook for me as I need the most for my $... and the 'fuller' 2nd row(layed down) also means a more consistant cargo bay platform to pack on, even
    though seating for extra persons is not a priority for me.
    And that clean 4x8' area means alot to me.
  • jkr2106jkr2106 Member Posts: 248
    Did they nix the 6 captin's chairs from the concept?
This discussion has been closed.

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