They did mention transmission problems: "our one real concern was with the software programming on the six-speed automatic"...later saying "Engineers were still chasing the calibration in late October, but were confident they’d have it sorted out by the time cars are delivered." So yes they have an issue, but pointed to a problem with tranny not pedal and seem to indicate it si a pre-production problem...so I suspect this will be tweeked. That other guy harped on it forever, which is fine to point out a problem but to go on and on was annoying.
What I like about these articles is the fact that they have built a vehicle which leapfrogs Honda and Toyota which have redsigns both coming in 2007.
Powertrain cal. is on of the last and hardest development issues on all programs. They have to take into account emmissions, MPG, customer preference, ambient temperature varitations and last the Chief Engineers opinion!
Me: Buicks niche long term is not top of the segment prices. They need to remain in their place as an upper mid brand. Enclaves over $50k will/should be very rare. ATP will probably be around $40K in the first year (Average Transaction Price which includes dealer negotiations and incentives)) and lower to $35k in the later years.
Buick: Saturn expects its average transaction price to be $32,000 to $33,000, though the example provided for our test drive was loaded out to $43,809. The most expensive options were the navigation system ($2,145); DVD entertainment ($1,295); premium leather trim with heated seats ($1,275); the XR convenience package with rear parking assist, power liftgate, remote starter and heated windshield washer fluid ($1,045); and the touring package with 19-inch chrome wheels and touring tires ($895). Other options including the trailer-towing package (4500-pound capacity) and premium paint pushed the price up but, as mentioned, made it a good match for an MDX that stickered out $5,000 higher.
I think that Saturn is guessing a little low at an ATP of $32.5k. More like $35, but then they probably do not want to over promise. Still think the $40k for Buick is about right.
Based on the price of the Outlook, it better have a lot of advantages over the Pilot! It's a foot longer than the Pilot, so it has more cargo space behind the 3rd row and a couple more inches of 3rd legroom, but I think since Honda has the Odyssey for those who really need a lot of interior space, the Pilot is designed for those who don't need quite so much. The Outlook, however, is designed as Saturn's minivan and CUV, so it has to compete with both the Odyssey and Pilot. Just being bigger than the Pilot may not be enough for folks who really need the space of a minivan. But in the end, I think the Outlook will be good for GM in having an alternative to their own SUVs and minivans...maybe it will keep people fleeing as fast!
"The first thing that hits you about the Outlook when you open the door is a very classy, pristinely executed interior."
"No kidding. In my notebook, under "negatives," I didn't write anything."
"I was deeply suspicious of the transmission, which GM developed with Ford (F). Ford's version, in the new Ford Edge (see BusinessWeek.com, 10/18/06, "First Drive: Ford's Edge"), wandered and wheezed during my drive. In the Outlook, it was smooth and silky. It goes to show how important software engineering is in today's vehicles."
"the Saturn Outlook is superior to its domestic and Asian competitors."
Hall agreed it may be the best product execution GM has ever released in segments that sell over 100,000 a year.
Driving the Outlook was every bit as pleasurable as the best of the midsized SUVs—the Lincoln Aviator (unsung for its excellent suspension tuning), Nissan (NSANY) Murano, and Toyota Highlander. (To be fair, I haven't yet driven the new Mazda CX-9, which seats seven or eight as well.)
While other SUVs and crossovers have a third row of seats, the Outlook, along with the Buick and Acadia, has a fully functional third row that is not only easily accessed, but comfortable. At 5 foot 11 and more than 250 pounds, with a dysfunctionally arthritic knee, I easily got into the third row and sat reasonably comfortably. With a slick one-touch lever, the second seat folds forward and flat against the front seat to provide access room.
Flanked in the Saturn showroom these days by the very impressive all-new Aura sedan and Sky Roadster (see BusinessWeek.com, 5/31/06, "Sky High"), the price doesn't seem like an impossible dream for Saturn.
Is the Outlook too good to be true? Not at all. But for people who are drifting around the minivan and full-size and midsized SUV categories looking for just the right package that suits their current lifestyle and kid-hauling needs, the Saturn Outlook is superior to its domestic and Asian competitors. And it's definitely the best thing that seats at least seven people that GM has ever made. Bring on Buick, GMC, and Chevy!
Based on the price of the Outlook, it better have a lot of advantages over the Pilot!
OK Bob, I guess I do not understand your comment. Seems like the Outlook has a better package at a lower price.
Outlook’s target is somewhat more affordable with the likes of Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander in its sights. If our experience with an option-laden top-level XR edition is any indication, Saturn has overshot its mark. At a price some 15 percent lower, it matched up well against an MDX also in our fleet recently.
I think the Outlook will be good for GM in having an alternative to their own SUVs and minivans...maybe it will keep people fleeing as fast!
Bit confused by this comment also. GM retail sales are up for the year over last year. Total sales are down because rental sales are down.
Based on a $43K Outlook, from what I looked up a similar optioned Pilot would be about $37K. I think the article is indicating that it was the intention of Saturn to match the Outlook against the Pilot, but because it overshot its price, the Outlook is not in the price range of an MDX instead of the Pilot. Maybe the GMC version will have a more competitive starting price.
As far as my other comment, are you saying that GM sales as a percentage of overall auto sales in the US are up, and if so send me the link. From what I've read, in general, Honda/Toyota are gaining in market share percentage while the domestic makes are falling.
General Motors dealers in the United States sold 297,556 new cars and trucks in November, a 6 percent increase compared with last year. Beginning with the 2007 model year in September, retail sales are up 13 percent while retail sales for November were up 11 percent compared to a year ago.
Yes the domestics are losing market share which includes rental fleet. For retail GM is up for '07 model year. The issue is that last year was a strange year with the huge employee discount pricing for everyone that sold unbelieveable numbers of '05 model year vehicles.
In June/July '05 there was a huge increase in retail sales.
In addition, GM’s retail sales were up 42 percent in July compared to a year ago.
There was a drop in sales after the program was over. I think I should have said '07 model year instead of inferring the current calender year. But with the new models and revised pricing retail sales have been improving.
General Motors’ dealers in the United States sold 368,776 new cars and trucks in August. Retail sales were up 8 percent on a sales day adjusted basis, compared with August 2005.
I think the article is indicating that it was the intention of Saturn to match the Outlook against the Pilot, but because it overshot its price, the Outlook is not in the price range of an MDX instead of the Pilot.
While Enclave aims at the Acura MDX and Lexus RX range, Outlook’s target is somewhat more affordable with the likes of Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander in its sights. If our experience with an option-laden top-level XR edition is any indication, Saturn has overshot its mark. At a price some 15 percent lower, it matched up well against an MDX also in our fleet recently. This is good because the Honda Pilot is due to be replaced soon, and for once GM is leading rather than trailing its moving target.
No, just the opposite, the article states that the Outlook is priced competitively with the Honda Pilot ($28K) but matches up well with the more expensive Acura MDX(starts at $40K).
People have mentioned that the lambda is going to be GM CUV and minivan. Speaking of price, a Honda Odyssey touring, has more goodies and mpg. MSRP with delivery is right at 40K. I have a pilot (lease expires apr 07) and what impressed me after years of detroit iron was the rock solid feeling of the car. When I close the door, it feels like a bank vault. Wife does not like the ride and I don't want another minivan (we will keep a windstar) so I am hoping the Acadia is quality. If it does have quality and a good ride it is sold to me at the price listed online. GM, and detroit, scare me, tho on the quality issue. I have the Acadia brochure, but have not seen it "in person" yet. The only drawback to the oddyssey, other than the fact it IS a minivan, is the PAX tires. Lots of doubts there.
I'm with Bob on this one. I actually interpreted it just the opposite way.
The Outlook's claimed target is the Pilot and Highlander but since the loaded Outlook is only 15% less than the MDX they missed their target. The loaded Outlook they tested has a claimed MSRP $43,809, which is MDX territory. It matched up well against that, but it is a heck of a lot more expensive than a loaded Pilot. I think when they say "overshot their mark" their talking price, not quality.
For what you get over pilot, the price is almost worth it. I you think too much, then don't load it up. (suggestion: choose between Navi& video). Ive seen highlanders at 42g, and Siennas for 43- so this might be on. And I know Muranos can be at 42- and that's not even 3rd row. It's relativity.
Those options are expensive. An Outlook starts at $27,000 MSRP, which is the real bargain, considering its well-equipped at base. I did that with a Freestyle ($22,000, only option side-curtain airbags) and don't quite understand people driving around in top Freestyles at $30k. Depends on how well heeled you are, I guess. Not only the Honda Pilot, but the Audi Q7 (identical dimensions to the Outlook/Acadia/Enclave) 3.6L version is right in there with the GM offerings.
I asked someone in the business and she said that the writer meant that the vehicle is priced to compete with the pilot but is good enough to compete with the MDX. I did send a email to Kevin so hopefully he will respond.
Based on the reputation of Honda vs GM, I'd say that to compete, the Outlook would have to be cheaper than a similarly equipped Pilot to really compete, not equal in price. If you’re comparing an Odyssey or Pilot against an Outlook, I’m wondering what the Outlook has that would really pull someone to the Outlook vs Pilot/Odyssey? I just don’t know why they would price any Outlook in low $40’s. Seem’s to me if you’re going to have 3 vehicles, Outlook, Acadia, and Enclave, then you’d make the Enclave the expensive on in the $40’s price range, the Acadia in the $30’s, and the Outlook in the mid $20’s to lower $30’s. That would make it something worth looking at.
But back to the article, the most expensive 2007 Pilot if you go online to Honda.com is about $36K, and when I search online also about as high as they go, and an Outlook with the same options is $43K, so to me that’s overshooting the mark.
I've never bought a Saturn before but if everyone really pays sticker price then the Outlook should definitely be priced less than a Pilot since you don't have to pay sticker price for Pilots. Maybe when the new Pilots come out people will pay sticker for awhile, but not throughout the lifecycle of the product.
I will most likely be cross shopping the MDX, Pilot, and Lamda vehicles next year or the year after that. I will be hard pressed to buy GM if the out the door prices are comparable. I know resale value isn't everything but it matters and I suspect GM still won't touch the other two.
Based on a $43K Outlook, from what I looked up a similar optioned Pilot would be about $37K. I think the article is indicating that it was the intention of Saturn to match the Outlook against the Pilot, but because it overshot its price, the Outlook is not in the price range of an MDX instead of the Pilot. Maybe the GMC version will have a more competitive starting price.
"Well, if you overshoot your target you've aimed too high. That's the meaning...price isn't even in discussion at that point of the story. It's about beating the current Pilot. If anyone is still confused have them keep reading the paragraph. It says this is good because GM is, for once, leading rather than behind the "moving target" that is Honda.
I really don't know how anyone got confused if they read the entire piece rather than a sentence or two. No, it's not overpriced.Yes, it is better than the current Pilot, a good thing for GM because we expect a new Pilot in the not too distant future."
Kevin A. Wilson Senior Editor/Special Projects AutoWeek 1155 Gratiot Ave. Detroit, MI 48207 (313) 446-0336 fax: 1027
http://info.detnews.com/autosconsumer/autoreviews/index.cfm?id=23926 We piled on the miles, piled in the people and the stuff, and drove it over some of the roughest pavement we could find just to see if we'd get the usual gripes and grumbles from our many passengers. We got zilch.
Our passengers, including those in the third-row seat, rode happily. Even with all three seats up, we were able to pack all of their stuff into the rear luggage compartment. Because the Outlook is based on a unitized car platform, it rode low to the ground, like a car, which meant the older, less agile members of our families easily entered and exited the vehicle.
Ingress and egress also were helped by Saturn's clever design of what it calls the "smart slide" second-row seat. With one hand, you can push that seat forward into a fold-flat position.
A 3.6-liter, 275-horsepower V-6 engine in the XR version provides ample oomph. And although the Outlook is as large as Ria's Honda Odyssey minivan, it handles in the manner of a much smaller and lighter vehicle--and it looks better than the Odyssey inside and out.
We like this one. We like it very much. But it's too bad GM decided to call it the Outlook. The company should have adopted the phonetic spelling of the Saturn general manager's surname and called it the Lajek.
I averaged 24 miles per gallon in highway driving. Ria averaged 17 mpg in city runs.
If that is what he meant, then great. But to say price is not even in the discussion yet is not being accurate. According to a posting here he said:
While Enclave aims at the Acura MDX and Lexus RX range, Outlook’s target is somewhat more affordable with the likes of Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander in its sights.
To me "affordable" is talking price. I don't think he writes as clearly as he thinks he does.
Well I read the entire piece, and I was a bit confused the first time I read it: I wasn't sure if he meant that they overshot because the Saturn is such a good deal and rivals with the MDX at a lower price (which is what he meant), or if they overshot because the Saturn is priced too high for its main competition, the Pilot and Highlander, once you start loading it up. I did have an inkling he meant the former statement and not the latter, but it's certainly not crystal clear. The fact I had to re-read it a few times is an indication that I am either an idiot (which might be the case ;-) ha ha), or that they might want to clarify things better.
No matter, because overall the article was a glowing review of the Outlook. Heck, if the new Pilot/Highlanders stay about the same size (which they might since they probably don't want to cannabilize their minivan sales), the Lambdas might take some minivan sales away from them.
Don't forget the CX-9 if you're looking for size. Just priced one out on Edmunds (looks like they have the reviews and invoices): the Grand Touring trim (the most expensive), with NAV and rear seat entertainment options and a few other goodies such as Sirius and dimming mirrors, comes out right about $40k MSRP. That's in line with the GM pricing we're seeing here once you start looking at the top of the line trims.
The Lambdas are still a bit bigger, though. I'll have to drive both to make up my mind.
If the Landa's are as nice as they appear, in the end I think our decision may come down to just how much size we want. I think I will predisposed to giving Honda/Acura a shot for once, but since it will be my wife's vehicle she may want the larger one. Right now she drives an 03 Expedition and loves it. I can't stand it.
I noticed that the Acadia has been added to the build your own option on the GMC website.
However, when I used it, it gave some errors so I guess they are still in the process of releasing the functionality. Expect it to be working on Monday.....
Another thing you may want to think about. With GM if something does happen off the beaten path you will have a whole lot better chance of getting it fixed then with the out of town stuff (foreign). I have been through many towns where there isn't any Foreign Car Dealerships for hundreds of miles and any town of size will have a GM dealer and I have been authorized to have work done at a Chevy dealership durning an emergency when the nearest Olds dealership was 50 miles away. Just another thought.
Outlook is priced as it is because Gm knows many will pay it. If you’re comparing an Odyssey or Pilot against an Outlook, I’m wondering what the Outlook has that would really pull someone to it vs Pilot/Odyssey? I just don’t know why they would price any Outlook in low $40’s. Comparing Apples to oranges again, I see. I don't know why peeople pay over 40 g for little highlanders or muranos-but they do. MAny crossovers hit this price. And for interior quality, pilot in its plain sense just can't touch Outlook- or in power and handling either. It also has much more space and many other features the pilot can't offer-like captains chairs, and 20 inch rims (just to name a few). MAny looking at either of these vehichles aren't even considering a minivan-most even. And the pilot tops out at 37 becasuse the 06 mdx began at this price- and these two were priced so low because honda knew no one would pay much more with so many competitors of equal or more value. Why does honda make civics availible at 22g when you can get and accord for under 20? Oh- and for the record, you will unless it's Hondadays pay sticker for honda/ Acura.
Not everyone is on the tightest budget. Why not load the car up with some convinient toys if you can afford it? What I really wan to see for comparison is the Q7 vs an outlook/ acadia. Not to be biased, but acadia should win a strong victory (considering better package, mileage, price, space, and smaller size.)
Oh- and for the record, you will unless it's Hondadays pay sticker for honda/ Acura.
Pilot's are going for invoice in many if not nearly all locations and a few people are already getting minor discounts on MDX's. Unless it is the first model year I don't know anyone who pays sticker for Hondas.
Sticker for a Honda or Acura? For new models maybe, or for important redesigns, but those prices only last for a few months at best. I know many people who have bought Hondas and Acuras and have paid nowhere near sticker. The only exception might be the Odyssey minivan, where several coworkers had problems haggling the price down, probably because Honday and Toyota are becoming the only minivan names in town...
I think the Outlook is probably prices allright right now, especially since the first crop of people who will buy it are GM loyalists. I think the Pilot/Highlander crowd will likely wait until their redesigns come out before making a decision.
albook, Manufacturers hope you'll get lots of bells/whistles, as thats their profit. Anyway, I like you're thinking about the Q7 vs. Acadia/Outlook comparisons I hope Car and Driver will pick up on. The Q7 is almost identical in size to the Lamdas, down to the inch in every direction. If you spend $37,000, you can get an Acadia or Q7 (3.6L V6 version, same size engine,too), or save some money with a cheaper Outlook and still compare well with the Q7. Hope the Lamdas can beat them. The critical comparison points are build quality, handling, steering, noise, etc., everything that tells someone that a vehicle is better than another.
sticker for a base q7 3.6 is 39900, and I bet no dealer ever gets these stripped models- so for what you get for the price, lamdas win. About Honda prices- you always pay full price for an Acura (friends purchased and couldn't get a discount), and true hondas are frequently discounted a year after debut, it's not much.
And don't forget the horrific reliability of the Q7...I'm sure the GM CUVs will fare much better, so in that category they will also win.
As for Acura prices, might want to check the 2007 MDX forums on Edmunds...people are getting at least $1k below MSRP, but you do have to shop around. I'm sure the Acadia might sell close to MSRP since they are shipping in lower numbers than the Outlook for the moment.
And for interior quality, pilot in its plain sense just can't touch Outlook- or in power and handling either. It also has much more space and many other features the pilot can't offer-like captains chairs, and 20 inch rims (just to name a few). MAny looking at either of these vehichles aren't even considering a minivan-most even.
Wow...captains chairs and bigger tires...that's a reason to buy! And considering that GM isn't making minivans anymore, I think that minivan owners will be cross-shoping the lambdas...at least I think GM hopes so.
How does it stack up? The Acadia is a fine large crossover SUV: good looking, spacious, and nice to drive, too. At $45,000 fully loaded, it’s straying into competition with some smaller luxury trucks, such as the Mercedes ML350 and Volvo XC90, but if a buyer can keep the tag in the mid- to high $30,000 bracket, it offers a lot of vehicle for the money.It gives more space and handles better than a Honda Pilot, for instance, and is a much more pleasing vehicle to drive than GM’s full-size body-on-frame SUVs, the GMC Yukon and Chevrolet Tahoe. While critics argue that GM needs a smaller crossover SUV more urgently than a full-size version, the Acadia is certainly worth a look if you’re in the market for a family hauler and think a minivan is as cool as K-Fed’s attempt at a rap career.
Minivan sales are falling, down to nearly 850,000 so far this year from a record high of 1.4 million in the United States in 2000.
Auto industry analysts predict that sales of minivans will not top 1 million again.
Toyota executives, at an international motor show in Geneva last year, declared the minivan "dead." General Motors and Ford are pulling out of the minivan business in 2007, leaving the segment to their lone American rival, the Chrysler Group.
But all is not lost for consumers in need of big family haulers. A new vehicle segment is rising. Auto industry people call it the "crossover" market – a name that seems more appropriate for a group baptism at a religious revival than it does for a vehicle of any sort.
I prefer calling the new models tall wagons, because that is what they are – wagons with sport-utility-vehicle pretensions. And here in the seat of San Benito County, along roads winding through the vineyards and agricultural fields of central California, I had the opportunity to drive what arguably is one of the best of the new breed – the 2007 GMC Acadia.
I was not surprised by the Acadia's road performance or build quality. It shares a platform with the 2007 Saturn Outlook, a tall wagon I drove and wrote about in this space two weeks ago.
I loved the Outlook, a commodious work of unitized steel construction that drove and handled in the manner of a much smaller, tighter sedan, although it offered ample seating for eight people with enough space remaining behind the third upright seat to accommodate 19.7 cubic feet of cargo.
The Acadia has the same capabilities; and I have every reason to believe that the Buick Enclave, which I have not driven but is built on the same tall-wagon platform, will prove to be as capable as its siblings, all of which are available with either front-wheel drive or all-wheel drive.
What, then, distinguishes these three?
In the bad old days of General Motors, the answer would have been easy – absolutely nothing, with the meager exceptions of their identity badges.
But that GM is dead and gone – and good riddance to it. The new GM has mastered the art of computerized engineering and design. It has discovered what many of its better foreign rivals have long known – that with the right sculpting and component tweaks, consumers can be offered visually and behaviorally distinctive vehicles built on the same cost-efficient platform.
Thus, the Acadia, with its bold but tasteful upscale trim, its enhanced four-wheel suspension and its array of electronic gadgetry, such as a heads-up display system that projects vehicle speed and other operational information on the windshield, looks and feels richer than the Outlook. Its exterior design, in keeping with the heritage of GM's GMC Truck Division, is more aggressive than that of the Outlook.
The Buick Enclave, on the other hand, has a look that is jazzy and upscale, decidedly more urban and urbane than either the Outlook or the Acadia. No one will have trouble telling the three vehicles apart. And it's a safe bet that the Acadia, Enclave, and Outlook buyers will be demographically different.
But they are likely to have two things in common – their dislike for minivans and their disdain for truck-like sport-utility vehicles.
And something else: Buyers of the Acadia and its tall-wagon relatives will have a keen appreciation for style. After all, that is what the turn away from minivans to what the industry calls "crossovers" is all about – style augmented by performance, reliability, safety, utility and fuel economy.
The tall wagons, or crossovers, have it. The minivans don't.
apparently its got something to do with engine mounts and it can be corrected by the dealers. I suppose it had something to do with unwanted noise or vibration that they want to eliminate. It's not a safety recall or anything.
The Pilot is no longer the benchmark, if it ever was. People are talking about how cheap the Pilot is compared to the OUtlook without talking about its lack of features. If the Outlook didnt have so many optional goodies, it too would be cheap like the Pilot. The list of things the Pilot doesnt have is quite long but just to start it doesnt offer 18" wheels, HIDs, dual zone climate control, remote start, room behind the third row, 6 speed auto, etc. Features cost money and the Pilot is woefully short on featues. In fact for $36k you arent getting much more than navigation and leather.
Wow...captains chairs and bigger tires...that's a real reason to buy! Lambdas have moreadvantages than this like remote start, but my fault- I should have though that a sensable minivan loving gut like yourself would'nt go for the 20's. It's all about probability(boriiiinnnnnngggggggg!!!!!). And since you love minivans so much, you should love the comfortable captains. I think that minivan owners will be cross-shoping the lambdas...at least I think GM hopes so. GM wants buyers who would have bought their dead beat minivans to shop these-I meanwhat have they got to lose? But they know that-as you saaid- few Odessey/ caravan buyers are going to even take a second look at this-or a Pilot! Someone who needs a Suburban to tow and haul the kids won't look at a Highlander (even with the little bitty 3rd row!) Pilot has lost the benchmark-probably to this if nothing else. Just callin 'em as I see 'em!
Wow...captains chairs and bigger tires...that's a real reason to buy! Lambdas have moreadvantages than this like remote start,
That is actually one of the benefits of the Lamda's for me - quite a few options. I have zero interest in 20" (or even 19") wheels or the captain chairs. I am more into the HID headlights, folding mirrors, second row bench, etc. I am quite pleased with the option list. I am too cheap to have to replace 20" or 19" tires. Seventeens and eighteens are expensive enough. They just are not a priority for me.
Comments
Here's the link to the review. Does address transmission issues but not as bad as previous review.
They did mention transmission problems: "our one real concern was with the software programming on the six-speed automatic"...later saying "Engineers were still chasing the calibration in late October, but were confident they’d have it sorted out by the time cars are delivered."
So yes they have an issue, but pointed to a problem with tranny not pedal and seem to indicate it si a pre-production problem...so I suspect this will be tweeked. That other guy harped on it forever, which is fine to point out a problem but to go on and on was annoying.
What I like about these articles is the fact that they have built a vehicle which leapfrogs Honda and Toyota which have redsigns both coming in 2007.
B.
ON SALE: Now
BASE PRICE: $32,290
DRIVETRAIN: 3.6-liter, 275-hp, 251 lb-ft V6; awd, six-speed automatic
CURB WEIGHT: 4936 lbs
0 TO 60 MPH: 8.5 seconds (est.)
FUEL MILEAGE (EPA COMBINED/AW OBSERVED):19.6/20.7 mpg
Buicks niche long term is not top of the segment prices. They need to remain in their place as an upper mid brand. Enclaves over $50k will/should be very rare. ATP will probably be around $40K in the first year (Average Transaction Price which includes dealer negotiations and incentives)) and lower to $35k in the later years.
Buick:
Saturn expects its average transaction price to be $32,000 to $33,000, though the example provided for our test drive was loaded out to $43,809. The most expensive options were the navigation system ($2,145); DVD entertainment ($1,295); premium leather trim with heated seats ($1,275); the XR convenience package with rear parking assist, power liftgate, remote starter and heated windshield washer fluid ($1,045); and the touring package with 19-inch chrome wheels and touring tires ($895). Other options including the trailer-towing package (4500-pound capacity) and premium paint pushed the price up but, as mentioned, made it a good match for an MDX that stickered out $5,000 higher.
I think that Saturn is guessing a little low at an ATP of $32.5k. More like $35, but then they probably do not want to over promise. Still think the $40k for Buick is about right.
"The first thing that hits you about the Outlook when you open the door is a very classy, pristinely executed interior."
"No kidding. In my notebook, under "negatives," I didn't write anything."
"I was deeply suspicious of the transmission, which GM developed with Ford (F). Ford's version, in the new Ford Edge (see BusinessWeek.com, 10/18/06, "First Drive: Ford's Edge"), wandered and wheezed during my drive. In the Outlook, it was smooth and silky. It goes to show how important software engineering is in today's vehicles."
"the Saturn Outlook is superior to its domestic and Asian competitors."
Link to the full review http://yahoo.businessweek.com/autos/content/nov2006/bw20061130_082606_page_2.htm-
Perhaps some work was done on the transmission programming?
Driving the Outlook was every bit as pleasurable as the best of the midsized SUVs—the Lincoln Aviator (unsung for its excellent suspension tuning), Nissan (NSANY) Murano, and Toyota Highlander. (To be fair, I haven't yet driven the new Mazda CX-9, which seats seven or eight as well.)
While other SUVs and crossovers have a third row of seats, the Outlook, along with the Buick and Acadia, has a fully functional third row that is not only easily accessed, but comfortable. At 5 foot 11 and more than 250 pounds, with a dysfunctionally arthritic knee, I easily got into the third row and sat reasonably comfortably. With a slick one-touch lever, the second seat folds forward and flat against the front seat to provide access room.
Flanked in the Saturn showroom these days by the very impressive all-new Aura sedan and Sky Roadster (see BusinessWeek.com, 5/31/06, "Sky High"), the price doesn't seem like an impossible dream for Saturn.
Is the Outlook too good to be true? Not at all. But for people who are drifting around the minivan and full-size and midsized SUV categories looking for just the right package that suits their current lifestyle and kid-hauling needs, the Saturn Outlook is superior to its domestic and Asian competitors. And it's definitely the best thing that seats at least seven people that GM has ever made. Bring on Buick, GMC, and Chevy!
OK Bob, I guess I do not understand your comment. Seems like the Outlook has a better package at a lower price.
Outlook’s target is somewhat more affordable with the likes of Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander in its sights. If our experience with an option-laden top-level XR edition is any indication, Saturn has overshot its mark. At a price some 15 percent lower, it matched up well against an MDX also in our fleet recently.
I think the Outlook will be good for GM in having an alternative to their own SUVs and minivans...maybe it will keep people fleeing as fast!
Bit confused by this comment also. GM retail sales are up for the year over last year. Total sales are down because rental sales are down.
As far as my other comment, are you saying that GM sales as a percentage of overall auto sales in the US are up, and if so send me the link. From what I've read, in general, Honda/Toyota are gaining in market share percentage while the domestic makes are falling.
Yes the domestics are losing market share which includes rental fleet. For retail GM is up for '07 model year. The issue is that last year was a strange year with the huge employee discount pricing for everyone that sold unbelieveable numbers of '05 model year vehicles.
In June/July '05 there was a huge increase in retail sales.
In addition, GM’s retail sales were up 42 percent in July compared to a year ago.
There was a drop in sales after the program was over. I think I should have said '07 model year instead of inferring the current calender year. But with the new models and revised pricing retail sales have been improving.
http://media.gm.com/servlet/GatewayServlet?target=http://image.emerald.gm.com/gm- - - news/viewmonthlyreleasedetail.do?domain=3&docid=30971
General Motors’ dealers in the United States sold 368,776 new cars and trucks in August. Retail sales were up 8 percent on a sales day adjusted basis, compared with August 2005.
http://www.gm.com/company/investor_information/docs/sales_prod/06_08/pressreleas- - e_0608.doc
While Enclave aims at the Acura MDX and Lexus RX range, Outlook’s target is somewhat more affordable with the likes of Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander in its sights. If our experience with an option-laden top-level XR edition is any indication, Saturn has overshot its mark. At a price some 15 percent lower, it matched up well against an MDX also in our fleet recently. This is good because the Honda Pilot is due to be replaced soon, and for once GM is leading rather than trailing its moving target.
No, just the opposite, the article states that the Outlook is priced competitively with the Honda Pilot ($28K) but matches up well with the more expensive Acura MDX(starts at $40K).
Wife does not like the ride and I don't want another minivan (we will keep a windstar) so I am hoping the Acadia is quality. If it does have quality and a good ride it is sold to me at the price listed online. GM, and detroit, scare me, tho on the quality issue.
I have the Acadia brochure, but have not seen it "in person" yet.
The only drawback to the oddyssey, other than the fact it IS a minivan, is the PAX tires. Lots of doubts there.
The Outlook's claimed target is the Pilot and Highlander but since the loaded Outlook is only 15% less than the MDX they missed their target. The loaded Outlook they tested has a claimed MSRP $43,809, which is MDX territory. It matched up well against that, but it is a heck of a lot more expensive than a loaded Pilot. I think when they say "overshot their mark" their talking price, not quality.
Either way, it is poorly written.
Karl
I think the issue is that they tested a top of the line vehicle fully loaded. The standard version is priced at the Pilot price.
Jay
But back to the article, the most expensive 2007 Pilot if you go online to Honda.com is about $36K, and when I search online also about as high as they go, and an Outlook with the same options is $43K, so to me that’s overshooting the mark.
I will most likely be cross shopping the MDX, Pilot, and Lamda vehicles next year or the year after that. I will be hard pressed to buy GM if the out the door prices are comparable. I know resale value isn't everything but it matters and I suspect GM still won't touch the other two.
"Well, if you overshoot your target you've aimed too high. That's the
meaning...price isn't even in discussion at that point of the story.
It's about beating the current Pilot. If anyone is still confused have
them keep reading the paragraph. It says this is good because GM is, for
once, leading rather than behind the "moving target" that is Honda.
I really don't know how anyone got confused if they read the entire
piece rather than a sentence or two. No, it's not overpriced. Yes, it is
better than the current Pilot, a good thing for GM because we expect a
new Pilot in the not too distant future."
Kevin A. Wilson
Senior Editor/Special Projects
AutoWeek
1155 Gratiot Ave.
Detroit, MI 48207
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fax: 1027
We piled on the miles, piled in the people and the stuff, and drove it over some of the roughest pavement we could find just to see if we'd get the usual gripes and grumbles from our many passengers. We got zilch.
Our passengers, including those in the third-row seat, rode happily. Even with all three seats up, we were able to pack all of their stuff into the rear luggage compartment. Because the Outlook is based on a unitized car platform, it rode low to the ground, like a car, which meant the older, less agile members of our families easily entered and exited the vehicle.
Ingress and egress also were helped by Saturn's clever design of what it calls the "smart slide" second-row seat. With one hand, you can push that seat forward into a fold-flat position.
A 3.6-liter, 275-horsepower V-6 engine in the XR version provides ample oomph. And although the Outlook is as large as Ria's Honda Odyssey minivan, it handles in the manner of a much smaller and lighter vehicle--and it looks better than the Odyssey inside and out.
We like this one. We like it very much. But it's too bad GM decided to call it the Outlook. The company should have adopted the phonetic spelling of the Saturn general manager's surname and called it the Lajek.
I averaged 24 miles per gallon in highway driving. Ria averaged 17 mpg in city runs.
While Enclave aims at the Acura MDX and Lexus RX range, Outlook’s target is somewhat more affordable with the likes of Honda Pilot and Toyota Highlander in its sights.
To me "affordable" is talking price. I don't think he writes as clearly as he thinks he does.
Karl
No matter, because overall the article was a glowing review of the Outlook. Heck, if the new Pilot/Highlanders stay about the same size (which they might since they probably don't want to cannabilize their minivan sales), the Lambdas might take some minivan sales away from them.
The Lambdas are still a bit bigger, though. I'll have to drive both to make up my mind.
Karl
Hey, has anyone driven one yet?
However, when I used it, it gave some errors so I guess they are still in the process of releasing the functionality. Expect it to be working on Monday.....
If you’re comparing an Odyssey or Pilot against an Outlook, I’m wondering what the Outlook has that would really pull someone to it vs Pilot/Odyssey? I just don’t know why they would price any Outlook in low $40’s.
Comparing Apples to oranges again, I see. I don't know why peeople pay over 40 g for little highlanders or muranos-but they do. MAny crossovers hit this price. And for interior quality, pilot in its plain sense just can't touch Outlook- or in power and handling either. It also has much more space and many other features the pilot can't offer-like captains chairs, and 20 inch rims (just to name a few). MAny looking at either of these vehichles aren't even considering a minivan-most even. And the pilot tops out at 37 becasuse the 06 mdx began at this price- and these two were priced so low because honda knew no one would pay much more with so many competitors of equal or more value. Why does honda make civics availible at 22g when you can get and accord for under 20? Oh- and for the record, you will unless it's Hondadays pay sticker for honda/ Acura.
Pilot's are going for invoice in many if not nearly all locations and a few people are already getting minor discounts on MDX's. Unless it is the first model year I don't know anyone who pays sticker for Hondas.
I think the Outlook is probably prices allright right now, especially since the first crop of people who will buy it are GM loyalists. I think the Pilot/Highlander crowd will likely wait until their redesigns come out before making a decision.
As for Acura prices, might want to check the 2007 MDX forums on Edmunds...people are getting at least $1k below MSRP, but you do have to shop around. I'm sure the Acadia might sell close to MSRP since they are shipping in lower numbers than the Outlook for the moment.
Wow...captains chairs and bigger tires...that's a reason to buy! And considering that GM isn't making minivans anymore, I think that minivan owners will be cross-shoping the lambdas...at least I think GM hopes so.
The Acadia is a fine large crossover SUV: good looking, spacious, and nice to drive, too. At $45,000 fully loaded, it’s straying into competition with some smaller luxury trucks, such as the Mercedes ML350 and Volvo XC90, but if a buyer can keep the tag in the mid- to high $30,000 bracket, it offers a lot of vehicle for the money. It gives more space and handles better than a Honda Pilot, for instance, and is a much more pleasing vehicle to drive than GM’s full-size body-on-frame SUVs, the GMC Yukon and Chevrolet Tahoe. While critics argue that GM needs a smaller crossover SUV more urgently than a full-size version, the Acadia is certainly worth a look if you’re in the market for a family hauler and think a minivan is as cool as K-Fed’s attempt at a rap career.
Minivan sales are falling, down to nearly 850,000 so far this year from a record high of 1.4 million in the United States in 2000.
Auto industry analysts predict that sales of minivans will not top 1 million again.
Toyota executives, at an international motor show in Geneva last year, declared the minivan "dead." General Motors and Ford are pulling out of the minivan business in 2007, leaving the segment to their lone American rival, the Chrysler Group.
But all is not lost for consumers in need of big family haulers. A new vehicle segment is rising. Auto industry people call it the "crossover" market – a name that seems more appropriate for a group baptism at a religious revival than it does for a vehicle of any sort.
I prefer calling the new models tall wagons, because that is what they are – wagons with sport-utility-vehicle pretensions. And here in the seat of San Benito County, along roads winding through the vineyards and agricultural fields of central California, I had the opportunity to drive what arguably is one of the best of the new breed – the 2007 GMC Acadia.
I was not surprised by the Acadia's road performance or build quality. It shares a platform with the 2007 Saturn Outlook, a tall wagon I drove and wrote about in this space two weeks ago.
I loved the Outlook, a commodious work of unitized steel construction that drove and handled in the manner of a much smaller, tighter sedan, although it offered ample seating for eight people with enough space remaining behind the third upright seat to accommodate 19.7 cubic feet of cargo.
The Acadia has the same capabilities; and I have every reason to believe that the Buick Enclave, which I have not driven but is built on the same tall-wagon platform, will prove to be as capable as its siblings, all of which are available with either front-wheel drive or all-wheel drive.
What, then, distinguishes these three?
In the bad old days of General Motors, the answer would have been easy – absolutely nothing, with the meager exceptions of their identity badges.
But that GM is dead and gone – and good riddance to it. The new GM has mastered the art of computerized engineering and design. It has discovered what many of its better foreign rivals have long known – that with the right sculpting and component tweaks, consumers can be offered visually and behaviorally distinctive vehicles built on the same cost-efficient platform.
Thus, the Acadia, with its bold but tasteful upscale trim, its enhanced four-wheel suspension and its array of electronic gadgetry, such as a heads-up display system that projects vehicle speed and other operational information on the windshield, looks and feels richer than the Outlook. Its exterior design, in keeping with the heritage of GM's GMC Truck Division, is more aggressive than that of the Outlook.
The Buick Enclave, on the other hand, has a look that is jazzy and upscale, decidedly more urban and urbane than either the Outlook or the Acadia. No one will have trouble telling the three vehicles apart. And it's a safe bet that the Acadia, Enclave, and Outlook buyers will be demographically different.
But they are likely to have two things in common – their dislike for minivans and their disdain for truck-like sport-utility vehicles.
And something else: Buyers of the Acadia and its tall-wagon relatives will have a keen appreciation for style. After all, that is what the turn away from minivans to what the industry calls "crossovers" is all about – style augmented by performance, reliability, safety, utility and fuel economy.
The tall wagons, or crossovers, have it. The minivans don't.
The Pilot is no longer the benchmark, if it ever was. People are talking about how
cheap the Pilot is compared to the OUtlook without talking about its lack of features. If the Outlook didnt have so many optional goodies, it too would be cheap like the Pilot. The list of things the Pilot doesnt have is quite long but just to start it doesnt offer 18" wheels, HIDs, dual zone climate control, remote start, room behind the third row, 6 speed auto, etc. Features cost money and the Pilot is woefully short on featues. In fact for $36k you arent getting much more than navigation and leather.
Lambdas have moreadvantages than this like remote start, but my fault- I should have though that a sensable minivan loving gut like yourself would'nt go for the 20's. It's all about probability(boriiiinnnnnngggggggg!!!!!). And since you love minivans so much, you should love the comfortable captains.
I think that minivan owners will be cross-shoping the lambdas...at least I think GM hopes so.
GM wants buyers who would have bought their dead beat minivans to shop these-I meanwhat have they got to lose? But they know that-as you saaid- few Odessey/ caravan buyers are going to even take a second look at this-or a Pilot! Someone who needs a Suburban to tow and haul the kids won't look at a Highlander (even with the little bitty 3rd row!) Pilot has lost the benchmark-probably to this if nothing else. Just callin 'em as I see 'em!
Lambdas have moreadvantages than this like remote start,
That is actually one of the benefits of the Lamda's for me - quite a few options. I have zero interest in 20" (or even 19") wheels or the captain chairs. I am more into the HID headlights, folding mirrors, second row bench, etc. I am quite pleased with the option list. I am too cheap to have to replace 20" or 19" tires. Seventeens and eighteens are expensive enough. They just are not a priority for me.