Sorry Jay, I have seen the Mazda CX-7 GT interior and that is 98% of what the CX-9 interior is and that is far far from Lexus.
Not to flame you, but you might want to get out more if you think the Mazda's interior is anything approaching luxury. It's bare bones and there is tons of plastic in the Mazda. That dash cluster in front of the steering wheel is hideous. Go look at the BMW X3, X5, VW Toureag, if you need a gauge of what a luxury interior is supposed to look like.
If you don't like tons of plastic, you probably won't like the Outlook/Acadia. The Acadia I sat in had lots of hard plastics on the dash, but at least they seemed textured.
Seems like you like "chunkier" SUVs, so Acadia/Outlook is probably right up your alley, but not the Enclave or CX-9, which are more streamlined and resemble more the Lexus RX350 (especially the CX-9). GM is doing the right thing by introducing differently styled Lambdas, imo, so they can target people who want more of a tradional SUV look and people who want just the opposite.
btw, the interior pictures of the CX-7 and CX-9 don't look all that similar, especially the dash area. The CX-9's dash looks nicer to me as compared to the CX-9, but again, that's subjective. Additionally, there are little styling touches in the CX-9 that you don't see in the CX-7. The Enclave's interior is also different than Outlook/Acadia, with little extra styling touches (and I'm sure you'll pay dearly for those extra touches!)
The Acadia is meant to be sporty looking on the inside. There isn't brushed satin finishing (Lincoln'ish) and wood panels inside. It's all chrome, stainless, black, etc... The Enclave will have the wood grain and ritzy touches.
The interiors in the CX-7 and CX-9 GT's are virtually identical. The CX-7 has a center stripe on the leather seats, while the CX-9 puts a stripe on the left and right side bolsters..... The dash materials, dash contours are dead-on with one another and in the same styling realm.
Nothing wrong with being proud of your purchase, but that vehicle is as boring of an SUV as the Honda Pilot. Nothing that is going to have anyone ooooh'ing and aaahh'ing over when you show it to them.
If you don't like tons of plastic, you probably won't like the Outlook/Acadia. The Acadia I sat in had lots of hard plastics on the dash, but at least they seemed textured.
Cracks me up. Every interior today is pretty much 100% plastic on the inside except MAYBE some trim plates that could be aluminum on plastic or wood on plastic. But that is very rare. One exception is the SRX which is using real leather on the IP and doors. Other may be cars above $100k which I do not know about.
The big differences are gloss levels and soft materials. GM has done a great job of improving the fit and finish of the interiors. Gloss levels are the lowest in the market. Remember how everyone oohed and ahhed over the new SUV interiors? It is all hard plastic on the IP. But you have to touch it to know it. Far as I am concerned GM needs to spend a few dollars and put some soft materials back in but they sure do look good.
I haven't bought a CX-9, or any crossovers just yet, so there's nothing to be proud of, I guess. As for how boring/sporty all these crossovers might look, most of your views are subjective, i.e. what's boring to you is exciting to someone else (why else is the Pilot such as hot seller as compared to, say, the Aviator?)
I'm not so sure you've paid attention to interior detail enough: what I like about the Acadia's interior is the way that the dash seems to seemlessly flow into the front doors. Very well done. The Mazdas don't have that same flow, imo, however the CX-7 and CX-9 are not identical by a longshot: the CX-9 has a different intrument cluster than the CX-7; it has a different radio console unit, different airvents. It has a different center console, different trim on the front doors, different interior door design, etc. etc. Of course, this doesn't mean that the interiors are exciting; it just means that they are different.
This is what I notice when I buy cars. I'm a stickler for detail, and maybe your dislike for the Mazdas is clouding your judgement?
You're right, most interiors on non-luxury vehicles is all plastics--the "chrome", the "stainless steel", the "wood", yep, all plastics. But there is a way that soft-touch elastomers tend to differentiate out trim levels in a model. They bring out certain textures that can't be achieved with molded parts, imo. I tend to look for these details.
So the Acadia's plastics do look fine overall, but if people are dropping $45k and expecting an Audi-like interior, they will be disappointed.
I dont have a dislike for Mazda, in fact, I have never owned a GM product in my life. The Buick Enclave is the first GM product that has ever peaked my interest... When I saw the photos last year, I wanted learn more about it. (okay, I did like the 1985 Buick Grand National and love the look of the 2008 Camaro... never liked Vettes)
In order since 1983 (year I got my drivers license) I've owned a 1980 Mustang (4cyl), 1985 Mustang GT, 1992 Mitsubishi Galant GS, 1994 Toyota Camry, 1994 Nissan Quest, 2000 Honda Odyssey, 2001 Honda S2000 and now a 2004 Lincoln Aviator AWD. The vehicle shopping is for my fiancee' who currently drives a 2001 Mazda Tribute.
For the past two years, all she has talked about is how fine the Infiniti FX35 is. We went and drove it and then walked next door to the Acura dealer and she quickly dropped the Infiniti. Then looked at Volvo, BMW, GMC and Mazda. We will look at Lincoln MKX next week as one is suppose to arrive at local dealer. However, I think it is all a moot point as she is about to drop a deposit on the 2007 MDX.
I guess, I could go right click on every interior shot of the CX-7 and CX-9 and put them side-by-side in a browser, but i'm not going to go through all of that. If you believe that the CX-9's dash shape and materials are totally different from the CX-7's then you are blind. Some buttons are different from here and there but they are virtually the same. Minor cosmetic touches and that is it.
You are right that my view of the Mazda's styling being bland is my view and one I stick with. Mazda does not have a luxury line like Honda has Acura, Nissan has Infiniti, Toyota has Lexus and GMC has Buick in this case. The Mazda CX-9's interior at it's highest trim level will never be considered in the same realm as any of the luxury brands listed above.
So on the way home from work tonight I popped into my local Saturn dealer and took a quick look at a base Outlook XE they had.
I've give you my initial impressions from a quick 10 minute look over it. I'll pop back next week and I will take a longer look. To give you a perspective on my commentary, I own a 2000 Audi A4 and regularly drive my wife's 2005 Ford Freestyle AWD Limited.
Exterior
First things first. The Saturn looks nicer in the metal than it does in photos. It is an imposing vehicle, certainly very large on the outside. It does not however have an athletic look. The front end looks good though and so I am even more excited by the though of seeing an Acadia - as I preferred the look of this anyway. The styling of the back end is not so convincing though to me. Perhaps it is the lack of a visible D pillar. Still, overall its not too bad, and the wheels look positively enormous! While it might me a crossover it is still styled very much in my eyes to be an SUV. As for the Ford styling? Well at some angles it looks really nice, at others ho-hum. The Saturn wins this one.
Interior Space
When I sit in the driver's seat and I looked over my shoulder, my first thought was "where's all the room?" Perhaps it was because it had the second row bench rather than the captain chairs we have in our Freestyle, but quite honestly to the visual eye there appears to be no more space in the Outlook than in the Freestyle. Moving to the second and third row seats confirms this feeling. Second row is pleasant enough but when I sat in the third row I was quite surprised and disappointed. I have done several trips in the third row of our Freestyle - when we pick up my mother-in-law, my wife drives, mother-in-law gets the front passenger seat, my two children get the second row captain chairs as I can not be bothers to swap out their car seats and I just climb in the back over the second row console. I am six foot tall and I can sit comfortably in the back of the Freestyle the only niggle I have is that in the back you can really see where Ford has cut corners on the interior trim quality.
In the Saturn, I was shocked to learn that I had NO MORE leg room in the Outlook third row, and worst still the floor was higher causing my knees to be higher. Finally the head room was less probably caused by the fact that the Outlook does not have the raised roof of the Freestyle. I could feel my hair brushing the roof, and so I would guess that I 6'1" adult is probably the tallest that can fit.
One thing I did note was that the interior trim in the back of the Outlook was better screwed together than the Ford. Looking at the cargo room the third row up I would guess that the Outlook only has a few inches depth over the Freestyle. I did not have a tape measure (how geeky would that have been ) but when you take into account the added floor depth you get in the Ford when the rear seats are up I would wager that there may actually be more usable space in the Ford. It I had had my stroller I could have performed our family's stroller test but alas I did not. Overall the Outlook may be bigger on the inside but the perception is that it is not, and its makes you wonder where all the space went when you consider the size of the exterior. I think space is a tie with the Freestyle - irrespective of what the stats say. Perhaps I'll change my mind next week when I look again...
Materials
The XE I looked at had cloth seats. For cloth it seemed good quality, certainly better than the cloth in the Freestyles I was testing before we bought our leather Limited. I wish I could compare the leather in the Outlook, but if the cloth is anything to go by, I would be quite happy not to have leather. Winner: Outlook.
The dash looks nice at first, but when I started to explore it was very easy to find the cost cutting. The top dash is very hard plastic, and when you tap it, it sounds hollow and brittle. I am a bit of a dash material snob though driving an Audi, but even so, one would hope that in 2007 a mid $20k's and up car would be approaching the dash quality of a 7 year old Audi. Well, one can only hope.... If its any consolation the Ford is no better!
The switch gear that I played with looks nice but I did not have any real time to do exhaustive testing. The interior illumination was pleasant though out the car, with nice dual lamps for each row for each side of the car.
Accessing the third row - the operation of that second row seat....
All I can say is oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. This is not the strong point of the car. I am sorry to say that in this respect the Freestyle easy beats the Outlook. The operation of the seat is clumsy at best, and is not a one handed operation. On this particular car, I noted that the seat shuddered and stuck a few times requiring a forceful push to move it forward. Also, when letting it slide back, the seat bottom would not relocate properly and the dealer would have to push down on it with his weight to lock it in place. In consideration this car had only come of the transported the day before and has not gone though all its checks yet, so perhaps when it is dealer prepared this will not be an issue, but it is not a good start.
Two other things I do not like about the seat mechanism is that the handle to release it is squeezed between the seat and the C pillar - I could not even find it a first - perhaps not the best spot for it. Secondly, the seat relies on being able to slide in tracks. Unfortunately for us, our Freestyle gets used like a trash can and our children drop dried fruit, raisins, Cheerios and all manner of other stuff on the floor. I can only imagine how long it would be before enough stuff works its way into the floor tracks and gums the mechanism up. Sorry GM, this one needs a rethink!
In Summary It is one imposing big vehicle, but in a way it is also a little disappointing. It is not a spacious inside as I thought it would be and the second row seat mechanism needs some attention. As it stands now, and without test driving the car, this base XE is probably a better vehicle than a mid-low range Freestyle for similar money. But it is not hugely better.
Would I trade my Freestyle in for an Outlook? No. If I was buying new, would I buy the Outlook over a Freestyle? Probably. I was considering trading in the A4 for an Acadia. If the Acadia is very similar to the Outlook, I will have to reconsider this.
Why don't you consider not getting yourself into a rage over a freaking car discussion? From what I read as a currently-neutral party of one brand over another, kjnorman had a well-put together personal review. His opinion means just as much as yours, actually more after your little tirade.
I don't necessarily agree with your opinion, as I think the CX-9 looks substantially nicer and more interesting than the CX-7. But I was taking your stance really seriously until you actually put Buick in the same company with Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus. You just lost all your cred with that one bub. Are you basing that stance on a single unreleased vehicle? Or their current lineup? If you say current, then my opinion of your eye for luxury/style/anything else is going to hit Bush-approval-rating lows.
I request the hosts remove this post and consider banning this member as I believe the distaste of this post exceeds forum rules.
As to being being a Ford lover, hardly! The Freestyle is the first Ford I have ever owned. Neither my wife or I would have considered a Ford, or a GM vehicle prior to it, but the Ford was good enough at the time (in 2005) and was simply the best vehicle available that met our needs that we bought one.
If you had been reading this forum for a while, you would know that I am very positive about these Lambda vehicles - I could see myself getting the Acadia. So it was with that that I was a little disappointed with my first impressions. Is it a bad vehicle? No. I think GM will do very well with these. But it is not perfect - no vehicle is.
There has been a lot of discussion on this board about these cars versus its competitors - the Freestyle having a lot of discussion. Being a Freestyle owner, I aimed to give my first thought when comparing the cars. The Freestyle gets a lot of crap but if you lived with one you'd realize it is not a bad vehicle. Similarly I pointed out flaws in the Outlook, but if you lived with it day to day, I am sure it would be a fine car.
So lose the name calling. This is not the place for it. Perhaps the play ground of junior high is, but not here.
This forum is getting more than a little too personal. The great thing about America is that there are all sorts of different vehicles and we have the choice to decide what we like and don't like. I found kjnorman's summary of his initial impression of the Outlook very helpful. I will form my own opinion when I check out the Acadia, but whether I agree with kjnorman or not I appreciate him taking the time to post his thoughtful comments. Depending on how each of us is proportioned, the same vehicle can be comfortable or not, and can have the impression of roominess or not. Life is too short to take other's opinions personally, especially over a vehicle. The bottom line is that I value everyone's opinion but do strongly agree that the personal attacks have no place here. We all share a love for cars/trucks or we would not be here. Keep the strong opinions, but leave the personal attacks out. Thanks!
"We understand that our users are passionate about vehicles, and furthermore that sometimes you are right and someone else is wrong, and worse -- they won't admit it. But remember, ultimately the Forums are about autos not egos."
You can always email Tidester or me for situations like this as well.
Carry on! (well, maybe that's a poor word choice :shades: ).
Guys, why can't you express your oppinions w/o bombing eachothers? Every vehichle expressed on this forum is worthy of some praise (some more thn others). KJnorman-Why are you interested in having both Freestyle and Acadia? Only thing you really gain is a little third row space, and 25 cu ft of cargo space, and a lot of horspower. Well I guess that is a lot, but 2 vehichkes for the same purpose? If I was to have two crossovers, I would have Enclave and X5 (completely differnt!).
Yes I would like that a lot! Can I afford them? Err, no!
Why two crossovers? Well I grew up in England before moving here 7 years ago. I've driven many small vehicles in my past and now I have been seduced by the American passion for size
What can I say? I like the roomy feeling! Still, your argument is my wife's. Why have two crossovers? My idea was that my wife does not drive many miles while I drive way too many for leasing. I thought I could lease an Acadia, give it to her (and the kids) and I'll hammer the Freestyle in to the ground (abuse it with muddy mountain bikes, trips to home depot etc...)
Still there is part of me that would like to end up with a sport sedan when I get rid of my Audi, perhaps a Jetta GTI or a Legacy GT....
Still I like the idea of the Acadia. The new MDX sounds nice but it is too pricey for me and I do not like its snout.
Reason enough?
I will enjoy reading everyone's contribution and differing opinions on these vehicles as people get to see them. My only request is that the commentary be fair.
The new MDX sounds nice but it is too pricey for me and I do not like its snout.
Really? Are you judging by pictures or have you seen one in person? I went to the Acura dealing near me three weeks ago and I thought that the front grille looked much better live. Maybe it didn't do it for you, and that's OK!
Kjnorman - thanks for your review and I would be concerned about the weak plastic handle for the second row seats. You said that the rear seats in the Acadia are less spacious than the Freestyle. I was interested in this because I am looking at an Acadia and it looks bigger than the Freestyle. So I looked at the dimensions quoted by each company on their websites and found the following;
The Acadia is only 0.6 inches longer but has a 6 inch greater wheelbase. Acadia also 3.3 inches wider. The headroom is comparable in all positions (third row 38.4 in Acadia vs 38.6 in the Freestyle). Leg room is comparable again between both vehicles in first and third rows. The Acadia has 3.5 inches less legroom in the second row (suprised by this). Hip room is comparable except in the third row where the Acadia is 2.4 inches better.
When we come to cargo room the Acadia wipes the floor with the Freestyle ; (Acadia vs Freestyle in cubic feet) Behind third row : 19.7 vs 15.8 Third row folded down (behind second row) : 68.9 vs 47.9 Second and third row folded down : 116.9 vs 91.7
I am blown away that the Acadia cargo space is 50% bigger when the third row is folded down which, I guess, is the usual configuration for a family of 4 or 5 with the third row seats used for guests.
So going off this the Acadia is, in general, more spacious given similar external dimensions. The third row in any of these vehicles is usually best for children or smaller adults. Hope this helps people decide which suits them best for their circumstances.
Yeah, it's funny how seeing cars in person can change your mind: From pictures, I initially thought the MDX was a little too angular, and the grille looked out of place. However at the autoshow it didn't look that bad at all (although that grille is flimsy if you touch it). And from Acadia pictures, I believed that this crossover looked "smaller" due to its styling and not SUV-like, but in person it did look quite chunky, and is rather large (which isn't a bad thing, it's just that I had a different impression from the pictures).
So the takeaway here is that you should really go look at an actual vehicle before making up your mind.
Oh I have no doubt that the Acadia or Outlook is actually more spacious than the Freestyle in raw dimensions. It is a larger car. My thoughts were on first impressions.
Yes according to the specs the Lambda are wider but when I was in the third row by myself I did not notice the extra width. If there were two of us back there then I am sure the extra width would have been noticed. What I noticed was that the leg room seemed comparable to the Freestyle, but the lack of floor depth pushed my knees up that made it feel smaller. Certainly you can put two six foot adults in back (and perhaps a child - which you can not do in the Ford).
One thing that also makes a difference is that in the Ford it is possible to slide your feet under the second row when you are in the back - at least I think you can as its been a couple of months since I was in the back. You can not do this in the Lambda and this also gives the impression of a smaller space. Don't get me wrong here. I am not bashing the Lambdas as the third row is perfectly decent, indeed way better than many I have seen, it is just not quite as good as I thoughts it would be - based on the hyped marketing of these cars.
We took a close look at the Outlook yesterday with wife and +6' tall son in tow. He and I fit easily into the third row w/ plenty of headroom and hiproom. Even the legroom was decent with the middle row moved forward. In almost every dimension it's larger than the CX-9 we're getting next month but here are my criticisms. The car styling and handling is dull IMHO. My wife thought the A pillar intruded into her field of vision. The fake wood is too fake especially considering that the Mazda has real wood trim in Grand Touring spec. I can't believe it's epa rated at 24 mpg. The Outlook feels huge to me and when I accelerated to merge onto a highway, the tranny dropped down three gears so the engine was screaming for mercy. Also, the middle row only reclines a few inches. The third row is fixed. Why was the recline feature omitted? Now, there are some attributes I appreciate: All GM vehicles now come with a 100K powertrain warranty. Too, although bluetooth isn't available, the Outlook comes with OnStar w/ the option of satellite cell phone (@~$.15/minute). That OnStar also can take the place of an expensive nav option since, for a slight upcharge it can provide voice directions to any destination. Sweet! The dual moonroof (w/ fixed rear glass) is also a nice option. The Saturn guy also showed us that the rear floor compartment can be removed for a little more luggage space.
The price is actually slightly higher than the Mazda CX-9 which, though it is slightly smaller does have that "zoom-zoom" and more integrated exterior styling IMHO. BTW, the CX-9 is NOT related to the CX-7. It has a different engine, trans and interior and uses RUG. I am convinced that the CX-9 is the way to go....for me!
From what I have read I don't think bluetooth is quite ready for prime time on any vehicle. On my STS it works great with my phone but others commplain that the person on the other end hear a echo. On other forums I have been on it is the same thing no matter whos car it is, foreign or domestic. Works with some phones and not others. Kind of like with computers. Some worked right out of the box others needed driver updates, some many times. Bottom line I think the cell phone manufacturers are partly to blame too. Are they really going by the strict guidelines for bluetooth or do they cut corners too, to save a buck?
For more third row space, get captains chairs in 2 row. Makes all the difference in the world. Looking at space, unless you need to tow over 4500lbs, why get Suburban over Acadia? and if you really need to go offroad, get a jeep! Can't wait to see Denali!!! And bluetoothe is just a cool toy, but it's great to have-They will have by midlife freshening.
I haven`t gotten to see an Acadia in the flesh (yet), your point about being able to fit your feet under the second row seats in the Freestyle is important and I will certainly this in the Acadia. Because if you can fit them under it gives you extra inches of usable room without it showing up on the dimensions given in the brochure.
Did you look at the Acadia as well as the Outlook? I ask because I wonder what you think of the Acadia styling compared to the Outlook. From what I have read and in my own opinion the Acadia looks better than the Outlook. Your other comments (excluding styling) will apply equally to the Outlook and Acadia.
Looked at an Outlook and many other SUVs today with the family. They just had one (XE) without any options. Went in the 3rd row and sat. I was disappointed at the amount of seat (too thin) and like previous post no thigh support. I'm 5'4" and I felt uncomfortable (this is with the 2nd all the way forward), you can put your feet under the second row seats but not much. Wife felt enclosed in the 3rd row, might be different with sunroof and bucked seats, we’ll see once they get one in. I though that it would be big in person (Tahoe size) but it’s the same size has the XC-90. Height wise I could reach and touch the roof rails. Overall I like the exterior of the Outlook. We’ll see the Acadia when it comes in and compare. Mean while wife likes the power seats of the Navigator/Expy. Until then I am reading every comments made on this form. Thanks guys/gals for your inputs.
As far as size, the Outlook is wider and taller than the Freestyle, which accounts for the Outlook's greater cargo room when the 2nd & 3rd row are folded. Depending on the website you look at, the Freestyle's cargo space behind the 3rd row is listed from between 15 to 21 CuFt. I think the 15CuFt doesn't include the well behind the 3rd row, but 21CuFt seems high.
For passengers, the extra width really only makes a difference if you're putting 3 people in the 2nd and 3rd row. If you get the 2nd row captains chairs in either Freestyle or Outlook, the seats are the same size but the space between them would be a few inches different. And in the 3rd row, if you're only seating 2 people, you're really not going to notice the extra width in the Outlook. However, if you put 3 folks in the 2nd or 3rd rows, then that's where you'll notice the difference.
The lambdas are definitely an 8 passenger vehicle, where-as the Freestyle is better suited for 6 because of the width. But if you're looking for space for 6 people, then the Freestyle with captains chairs might win out because of the increased leg room.
A while back there was a discussion about how minivans were going to lose volume as crossovers gained ( and also SUV's were going down). Per an article with a Global Insight quote for 2007 they are predicting a 12% drop in minivan sales from 2006. All makes lose volume, even Chrysler which is releasing a new van that, per the press that have seen it, is amazing. Chrysler thinks that minivans will stay steay for 2007 while Toyota says it is going down.
What I did not know is that Chrylser is selling 366,000 units per year and the 2nd is Honda at 175,000 and Toyota at 157,000. GM is at 100,000. Ford at 60k.
I think that the Lamda and other crossovers will continue to whittle down the minivans to a point where it will be tough for manufactures to profitably continue developing and producing new vans that are only sold in NA. Perhaps someday Chrysler will be the last one standing with one plants worth of product (260,000 units) and all others will fade away.
Looks like GM is updating Spring Hill to build the Chevy Lamdas that are being designed. It make up to 350,000 units per year on 3 shifts.
Now, for that kind of volume GM will probably need to add sliding doors and other features to make it more minivan like but still keep the SUV appearance. Most likely they will build both sliding and regular doors?
Since I mainly care about second row space (third row only necessary for guests) the Lambda's appear to blow away all the competition due to their sliding second row. I've noticed some say that the Freestyle is so big in terms of second row legroom, but I had one for a week as a rental car and whenever I tried to sit in the second row I found my knees to be jammed into the front seatbacks. The footwells are deep but I wasn't impressed with legspace overall. When looking at pictures comparing the Freestyle to Lambdas I don't think there is really any questioning as to which has the better second row.
Both GM and Ford have said they will be stopping production of their minivans within the next year or so. Anyone going into a GM showroom looking for an Uplander etc will be pointed in the direction of the Lamda equivalent because they hold as many people as the minivans they are replacing. As well as being much more stylish and modern.
I have heard that there will be a Chevy version, can't believe it will have sliding doors because GM don`t want to do minivans (sliding doors a key feature of a minivan) and the extra cost involved would make me think this is unlikely but we will see.
The photos look compelling but it depends on how far forward the front seats are and how far back the second row seats are. The comment earlier about if you carry 6 then there is not much difference between Freestyle and Acadia/Outlook seems reasonable - I will need to check this out.
Minivans (although really not so mini) are not going anywhere IMO. Chrysler numbers are blown up due to high fleet sales, while Honda's and likely Toyotas numbers are actual retail. In fact Honda's sales are up from last years pace. There is a ton of hype surrounding the crossover craze, but the fact remains minivans are still more efficient. The more choices the better I say. I for one love the crossover as I am not crazy about the minivan style and need AWD...if the Odyssey had AWD with VCM I would def take a look, but only other minivan that would work is the Sienna as that offers AWD and does not seem anymore efficient EPA wise.
On another note I have been reading comments about the Freestyle, I sat in both the Freestyle and Acadia litterly back to back, there is no question in my mind there is more room in the 3rd row of the Acadia then the Freestyle. Now I will say this, I think if you took 2 cars and had one with 2nd row captains chairs and one with 2nd row bench, I think the perception would be the one with he captains chairs would make you feel like the 3rd row had more room, regardless of fact in either case. So perception becomes reality. In my mind I would prefer the 2nd row captains chairs, but recently my buddy his family and my family needed to head out to a kids birthday party, I thought perfect he has a Sienna, it added up to 8 of us, he has a Sienna with the traditional 2nd row captains chairs, thus it only sat 7 and 2 cars were taken. I am not saying this will always happen but isn't the point if getting a vehicle this size to get the maximum amount of seats as you never know when needs arrive....better to have more then less.
Anyhow those are my long winded thoughts sorry :-)
UH OH! Looks like lambdas have some competition! Looks good. Judging by comoflage, I would bet we will see this one in detroit!!! These was my response to the spy photos of the new Dodge crossover earlier(you guys take a look). Lambda's first real competition, besides CX9. Waht will it be called? Can't wait to see it. Bet anyone it will be in Detroit.
Like I said before, anyone not impressed with the LAmbda row 3 should get captains chairs. When I wanted Yukon XL, I though third row was closed in, then I looked at one with captains chairs-comfortable. THen gas went up (if you get my point!).
JD14, I thought you had a Freestyle. and What ever happened to arumage?
Those pics show that the Freestyle seat backs are in the door opening while the Enclave is behind the door opening. Looks like the Enclave has at least 6 more inches of knee room. (do not use legroom which includes measurements of foot locations and other metrics)
Looks so long to me. Chrysler knows they need some competition in this market-and Pacifica isn't cutting it for most (I like it, but it falls short) So probably will compete with Acadia/ CX9. But what will this do to Durango sales? (let me answer that-down, down, down!) THis will definitely be the vehichle of which the PAcifica replacement is spawned off of. THink what Acadia Denali will have to put up with if there is an SRT package planned!
How would a person choose between a fully loaded outlook or acadia compared to waiting for the enclave? I have not found any explanation regarding what market segment each brand is targeting. Enclave does not seem to offer any advantages over a loaded outlook or acadia unless you happen to prefer the styling. Am I missing something?
How would a person choose between a fully loaded outlook or acadia compared to waiting for the enclave?
Simple: my wife likes the Enclave better than the Acadia/Outlook, so that pretty much forces me to like the Enclave better ;-)
I think the Enclave will be a styling thing over the other Lambdas, as you have mentioned. It will probably have a higher quality interior and more standard equipment, in order to get itself a little closer to the Acura/Lexus SUVs. Personally I don't think the Enclave can be priced as much as the MDX/Lexus SUVs, so it might be a good deal if you were cross-shopping these vehicles.
If the article is accurate this is not a lambda competitor. Not with a four cylinder option and a $20K price tag. There is no way this has a third row unless it is the shoehorn that is the Toyota RAV4.
The Enclave will have a better ride most likely. Also probably some features not available on the others. I think I read that it will have a rear view camera. Will have to wait to see?
If you look on the 2nd row seat tracks of the Enclave, it looks like the 2nd row is slid all the way back, so I guess if you want 29" of 3rd legroom you can get 41" of 2nd row legroom in the Enclave. Bottom line is that legroom in the 2nd row of the Freestyle is 4" greater. Plus with the Enclave, it looks like your knees are going to be pretty high as compared to the Freestyle, but you really have to sit in them to compare. I don't want the "knees-in-the-air" feeling in the second row of any vehicle. I've seen lots of 2nd row seat photos in ads and just because there's a big distance shown between the front of the seat cushion in the 2nd row and the front seat back, it really doesn't mean anything because you don't know the seat positions.
I always complaining about the steering wheel size in GM (most) vehicles. They are the largest on the market, probably to give the driver a good view of the IP, but they feel like a steering wheel of a truck. Most Hondas and Toyotas, and some Ford and DCX have smaller sizes of the steering wheel, and it gives a much more sportier feeling.
What are your impressions? I see most people don't care about it...
I noticed the 4 cylinder speculation as well. That would be a disaster...just think of trying to pull a 7-8 passenger vehicle, esp loaded with a 4 cylinder, well maybe turbo charged. Less than 240-250 hp and that much load would make for poor performance. I think that is one thing I read about the Freestyle, performance at hwy speed, esp with a load.
I will note that a local dealer (Memphis, TN) was advertising a 2007 Caravan for below $14K this past weekend. So, I guess a $20K base hauler would be possible if you wanted to drop the bottom out. Do much of this and at some point there is no profit for anyone.
I think... I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. (No offense meant Bob, we just have differing opinions.)
I have a Lexus LS430 with UL package and an old Mercury Villager that is about to die. Looking to replace it with the Enclave or something of the like.
Comments
Not to flame you, but you might want to get out more if you think the Mazda's interior is anything approaching luxury. It's bare bones and there is tons of plastic in the Mazda. That dash cluster in front of the steering wheel is hideous. Go look at the BMW X3, X5, VW Toureag, if you need a gauge of what a luxury interior is supposed to look like.
Seems like you like "chunkier" SUVs, so Acadia/Outlook is probably right up your alley, but not the Enclave or CX-9, which are more streamlined and resemble more the Lexus RX350 (especially the CX-9). GM is doing the right thing by introducing differently styled Lambdas, imo, so they can target people who want more of a tradional SUV look and people who want just the opposite.
btw, the interior pictures of the CX-7 and CX-9 don't look all that similar, especially the dash area. The CX-9's dash looks nicer to me as compared to the CX-9, but again, that's subjective. Additionally, there are little styling touches in the CX-9 that you don't see in the CX-7. The Enclave's interior is also different than Outlook/Acadia, with little extra styling touches (and I'm sure you'll pay dearly for those extra touches!)
The interiors in the CX-7 and CX-9 GT's are virtually identical. The CX-7 has a center stripe on the leather seats, while the CX-9 puts a stripe on the left and right side bolsters..... The dash materials, dash contours are dead-on with one another and in the same styling realm.
Nothing wrong with being proud of your purchase, but that vehicle is as boring of an SUV as the Honda Pilot. Nothing that is going to have anyone ooooh'ing and aaahh'ing over when you show it to them.
Cracks me up. Every interior today is pretty much 100% plastic on the inside except MAYBE some trim plates that could be aluminum on plastic or wood on plastic. But that is very rare. One exception is the SRX which is using real leather on the IP and doors. Other may be cars above $100k which I do not know about.
The big differences are gloss levels and soft materials. GM has done a great job of improving the fit and finish of the interiors. Gloss levels are the lowest in the market. Remember how everyone oohed and ahhed over the new SUV interiors? It is all hard plastic on the IP. But you have to touch it to know it. Far as I am concerned GM needs to spend a few dollars and put some soft materials back in but they sure do look good.
I'm not so sure you've paid attention to interior detail enough: what I like about the Acadia's interior is the way that the dash seems to seemlessly flow into the front doors. Very well done. The Mazdas don't have that same flow, imo, however the CX-7 and CX-9 are not identical by a longshot: the CX-9 has a different intrument cluster than the CX-7; it has a different radio console unit, different airvents. It has a different center console, different trim on the front doors, different interior door design, etc. etc. Of course, this doesn't mean that the interiors are exciting; it just means that they are different.
This is what I notice when I buy cars. I'm a stickler for detail, and maybe your dislike for the Mazdas is clouding your judgement?
So the Acadia's plastics do look fine overall, but if people are dropping $45k and expecting an Audi-like interior, they will be disappointed.
In order since 1983 (year I got my drivers license) I've owned a 1980 Mustang (4cyl), 1985 Mustang GT, 1992 Mitsubishi Galant GS, 1994 Toyota Camry, 1994 Nissan Quest, 2000 Honda Odyssey, 2001 Honda S2000 and now a 2004 Lincoln Aviator AWD. The vehicle shopping is for my fiancee' who currently drives a 2001 Mazda Tribute.
For the past two years, all she has talked about is how fine the Infiniti FX35 is. We went and drove it and then walked next door to the Acura dealer and she quickly dropped the Infiniti. Then looked at Volvo, BMW, GMC and Mazda. We will look at Lincoln MKX next week as one is suppose to arrive at local dealer. However, I think it is all a moot point as she is about to drop a deposit on the 2007 MDX.
I guess, I could go right click on every interior shot of the CX-7 and CX-9 and put them side-by-side in a browser, but i'm not going to go through all of that. If you believe that the CX-9's dash shape and materials are totally different from the CX-7's then you are blind. Some buttons are different from here and there but they are virtually the same. Minor cosmetic touches and that is it.
You are right that my view of the Mazda's styling being bland is my view and one I stick with. Mazda does not have a luxury line like Honda has Acura, Nissan has Infiniti, Toyota has Lexus and GMC has Buick in this case. The Mazda CX-9's interior at it's highest trim level will never be considered in the same realm as any of the luxury brands listed above.
I've give you my initial impressions from a quick 10 minute look over it. I'll pop back next week and I will take a longer look. To give you a perspective on my commentary, I own a 2000 Audi A4 and regularly drive my wife's 2005 Ford Freestyle AWD Limited.
Exterior
First things first. The Saturn looks nicer in the metal than it does in photos. It is an imposing vehicle, certainly very large on the outside. It does not however have an athletic look. The front end looks good though and so I am even more excited by the though of seeing an Acadia - as I preferred the look of this anyway. The styling of the back end is not so convincing though to me. Perhaps it is the lack of a visible D pillar. Still, overall its not too bad, and the wheels look positively enormous! While it might me a crossover it is still styled very much in my eyes to be an SUV. As for the Ford styling? Well at some angles it looks really nice, at others ho-hum. The Saturn wins this one.
Interior Space
When I sit in the driver's seat and I looked over my shoulder, my first thought was "where's all the room?" Perhaps it was because it had the second row bench rather than the captain chairs we have in our Freestyle, but quite honestly to the visual eye there appears to be no more space in the Outlook than in the Freestyle. Moving to the second and third row seats confirms this feeling. Second row is pleasant enough but when I sat in the third row I was quite surprised and disappointed. I have done several trips in the third row of our Freestyle - when we pick up my mother-in-law, my wife drives, mother-in-law gets the front passenger seat, my two children get the second row captain chairs as I can not be bothers to swap out their car seats and I just climb in the back over the second row console. I am six foot tall and I can sit comfortably in the back of the Freestyle the only niggle I have is that in the back you can really see where Ford has cut corners on the interior trim quality.
In the Saturn, I was shocked to learn that I had NO MORE leg room in the Outlook third row, and worst still the floor was higher causing my knees to be higher. Finally the head room was less probably caused by the fact that the Outlook does not have the raised roof of the Freestyle. I could feel my hair brushing the roof, and so I would guess that I 6'1" adult is probably the tallest that can fit.
One thing I did note was that the interior trim in the back of the Outlook was better screwed together than the Ford. Looking at the cargo room the third row up I would guess that the Outlook only has a few inches depth over the Freestyle. I did not have a tape measure (how geeky would that have been
Materials
The XE I looked at had cloth seats. For cloth it seemed good quality, certainly better than the cloth in the Freestyles I was testing before we bought our leather Limited. I wish I could compare the leather in the Outlook, but if the cloth is anything to go by, I would be quite happy not to have leather. Winner: Outlook.
The dash looks nice at first, but when I started to explore it was very easy to find the cost cutting. The top dash is very hard plastic, and when you tap it, it sounds hollow and brittle. I am a bit of a dash material snob though
The switch gear that I played with looks nice but I did not have any real time to do exhaustive testing. The interior illumination was pleasant though out the car, with nice dual lamps for each row for each side of the car.
Accessing the third row - the operation of that second row seat....
All I can say is oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. This is not the strong point of the car. I am sorry to say that in this respect the Freestyle easy beats the Outlook. The operation of the seat is clumsy at best, and is not a one handed operation. On this particular car, I noted that the seat shuddered and stuck a few times requiring a forceful push to move it forward. Also, when letting it slide back, the seat bottom would not relocate properly and the dealer would have to push down on it with his weight to lock it in place. In consideration this car had only come of the transported the day before and has not gone though all its checks yet, so perhaps when it is dealer prepared this will not be an issue, but it is not a good start.
Two other things I do not like about the seat mechanism is that the handle to release it is squeezed between the seat and the C pillar - I could not even find it a first - perhaps not the best spot for it. Secondly, the seat relies on being able to slide in tracks. Unfortunately for us, our Freestyle gets used like a trash can
In Summary
It is one imposing big vehicle, but in a way it is also a little disappointing. It is not a spacious inside as I thought it would be and the second row seat mechanism needs some attention. As it stands now, and without test driving the car, this base XE is probably a better vehicle than a mid-low range Freestyle for similar money. But it is not hugely better.
Would I trade my Freestyle in for an Outlook? No. If I was buying new, would I buy the Outlook over a Freestyle? Probably. I was considering trading in the A4 for an Acadia. If the Acadia is very similar to the Outlook, I will have to reconsider this.
Kerry.
Yes, I feel there is too much hardness. But this is a lot of vehicle for under $30k. $45k will be a rare beast after the first year.
Why don't you consider not getting yourself into a rage over a freaking car discussion? From what I read as a currently-neutral party of one brand over another, kjnorman had a well-put together personal review. His opinion means just as much as yours, actually more after your little tirade.
I request the hosts remove this post and consider banning this member as I believe the distaste of this post exceeds forum rules.
As to being being a Ford lover, hardly! The Freestyle is the first Ford I have ever owned. Neither my wife or I would have considered a Ford, or a GM vehicle prior to it, but the Ford was good enough at the time (in 2005) and was simply the best vehicle available that met our needs that we bought one.
If you had been reading this forum for a while, you would know that I am very positive about these Lambda vehicles - I could see myself getting the Acadia. So it was with that that I was a little disappointed with my first impressions. Is it a bad vehicle? No. I think GM will do very well with these. But it is not perfect - no vehicle is.
There has been a lot of discussion on this board about these cars versus its competitors - the Freestyle having a lot of discussion. Being a Freestyle owner, I aimed to give my first thought when comparing the cars. The Freestyle gets a lot of crap but if you lived with one you'd realize it is not a bad vehicle. Similarly I pointed out flaws in the Outlook, but if you lived with it day to day, I am sure it would be a fine car.
So lose the name calling. This is not the place for it. Perhaps the play ground of junior high is, but not here.
Apology called for?
From the Rules of the Road link on the left.
"We understand that our users are passionate about vehicles, and furthermore that sometimes you are right and someone else is wrong, and worse -- they won't admit it. But remember, ultimately the Forums are about autos not egos."
You can always email Tidester or me for situations like this as well.
Carry on! (well, maybe that's a poor word choice :shades: ).
Yes I would like that a lot! Can I afford them? Err, no!
Why two crossovers? Well I grew up in England before moving here 7 years ago. I've driven many small vehicles in my past and now I have been seduced by the American passion for size
What can I say? I like the roomy feeling! Still, your argument is my wife's. Why have two crossovers? My idea was that my wife does not drive many miles while I drive way too many for leasing. I thought I could lease an Acadia, give it to her (and the kids) and I'll hammer the Freestyle in to the ground (abuse it with muddy mountain bikes, trips to home depot etc...)
Still there is part of me that would like to end up with a sport sedan when I get rid of my Audi, perhaps a Jetta GTI or a Legacy GT....
Still I like the idea of the Acadia. The new MDX sounds nice but it is too pricey for me and I do not like its snout.
Reason enough?
I will enjoy reading everyone's contribution and differing opinions on these vehicles as people get to see them. My only request is that the commentary be fair.
Really? Are you judging by pictures or have you seen one in person? I went to the Acura dealing near me three weeks ago and I thought that the front grille looked much better live. Maybe it didn't do it for you, and that's OK!
You said that the rear seats in the Acadia are less spacious than the Freestyle. I was interested in this because I am looking at an Acadia and it looks bigger than the Freestyle. So I looked at the dimensions quoted by each company on their websites and found the following;
The Acadia is only 0.6 inches longer but has a 6 inch greater wheelbase. Acadia also 3.3 inches wider.
The headroom is comparable in all positions (third row 38.4 in Acadia vs 38.6 in the Freestyle).
Leg room is comparable again between both vehicles in first and third rows. The Acadia has 3.5 inches less legroom in the second row (suprised by this).
Hip room is comparable except in the third row where the Acadia is 2.4 inches better.
When we come to cargo room the Acadia wipes the floor with the Freestyle ;
(Acadia vs Freestyle in cubic feet)
Behind third row : 19.7 vs 15.8
Third row folded down (behind second row) : 68.9 vs 47.9
Second and third row folded down : 116.9 vs 91.7
I am blown away that the Acadia cargo space is 50% bigger when the third row is folded down which, I guess, is the usual configuration for a family of 4 or 5 with the third row seats used for guests.
So going off this the Acadia is, in general, more spacious given similar external dimensions. The third row in any of these vehicles is usually best for children or smaller adults. Hope this helps people decide which suits them best for their circumstances.
So the takeaway here is that you should really go look at an actual vehicle before making up your mind.
Yes according to the specs the Lambda are wider but when I was in the third row by myself I did not notice the extra width. If there were two of us back there then I am sure the extra width would have been noticed. What I noticed was that the leg room seemed comparable to the Freestyle, but the lack of floor depth pushed my knees up that made it feel smaller. Certainly you can put two six foot adults in back (and perhaps a child - which you can not do in the Ford).
One thing that also makes a difference is that in the Ford it is possible to slide your feet under the second row when you are in the back - at least I think you can as its been a couple of months since I was in the back. You can not do this in the Lambda and this also gives the impression of a smaller space. Don't get me wrong here. I am not bashing the Lambdas as the third row is perfectly decent, indeed way better than many I have seen, it is just not quite as good as I thoughts it would be - based on the hyped marketing of these cars.
The price is actually slightly higher than the Mazda CX-9 which, though it is slightly smaller does have that "zoom-zoom" and more integrated exterior styling IMHO. BTW, the CX-9 is NOT related to the CX-7. It has a different engine, trans and interior and uses RUG. I am convinced that the CX-9 is the way to go....for me!
Jay
Wife felt enclosed in the 3rd row, might be different with sunroof and bucked seats, we’ll see once they get one in.
I though that it would be big in person (Tahoe size) but it’s the same size has the XC-90. Height wise I could reach and touch the roof rails. Overall I like the exterior of the Outlook. We’ll see the Acadia when it comes in and compare. Mean while wife likes the power seats of the Navigator/Expy.
Until then I am reading every comments made on this form.
Thanks guys/gals for your inputs.
For passengers, the extra width really only makes a difference if you're putting 3 people in the 2nd and 3rd row. If you get the 2nd row captains chairs in either Freestyle or Outlook, the seats are the same size but the space between them would be a few inches different. And in the 3rd row, if you're only seating 2 people, you're really not going to notice the extra width in the Outlook. However, if you put 3 folks in the 2nd or 3rd rows, then that's where you'll notice the difference.
The lambdas are definitely an 8 passenger vehicle, where-as the Freestyle is better suited for 6 because of the width. But if you're looking for space for 6 people, then the Freestyle with captains chairs might win out because of the increased leg room.
What I did not know is that Chrylser is selling 366,000 units per year and the 2nd is Honda at 175,000 and Toyota at 157,000. GM is at 100,000. Ford at 60k.
I think that the Lamda and other crossovers will continue to whittle down the minivans to a point where it will be tough for manufactures to profitably continue developing and producing new vans that are only sold in NA. Perhaps someday Chrysler will be the last one standing with one plants worth of product (260,000 units) and all others will fade away.
Now, for that kind of volume GM will probably need to add sliding doors and other features to make it more minivan like but still keep the SUV appearance. Most likely they will build both sliding and regular doors?
Freestyle Second Row
Buick Enclave Second Row
What do you guys think?
I have heard that there will be a Chevy version, can't believe it will have sliding doors because GM don`t want to do minivans (sliding doors a key feature of a minivan) and the extra cost involved would make me think this is unlikely but we will see.
There is a ton of hype surrounding the crossover craze, but the fact remains minivans are still more efficient.
The more choices the better I say. I for one love the crossover as I am not crazy about the minivan style and need AWD...if the Odyssey had AWD with VCM I would def take a look, but only other minivan that would work is the Sienna as that offers AWD and does not seem anymore efficient EPA wise.
On another note I have been reading comments about the Freestyle, I sat in both the Freestyle and Acadia litterly back to back, there is no question in my mind there is more room in the 3rd row of the Acadia then the Freestyle. Now I will say this, I think if you took 2 cars and had one with 2nd row captains chairs and one with 2nd row bench, I think the perception would be the one with he captains chairs would make you feel like the 3rd row had more room, regardless of fact in either case. So perception becomes reality.
In my mind I would prefer the 2nd row captains chairs, but recently my buddy his family and my family needed to head out to a kids birthday party, I thought perfect he has a Sienna, it added up to 8 of us, he has a Sienna with the traditional 2nd row captains chairs, thus it only sat 7 and 2 cars were taken. I am not saying this will always happen but isn't the point if getting a vehicle this size to get the maximum amount of seats as you never know when needs arrive....better to have more then less.
Anyhow those are my long winded thoughts sorry :-)
B.
These was my response to the spy photos of the new Dodge crossover earlier(you guys take a look). Lambda's first real competition, besides CX9. Waht will it be called? Can't wait to see it. Bet anyone it will be in Detroit.
Like I said before, anyone not impressed with the LAmbda row 3 should get captains chairs. When I wanted Yukon XL, I though third row was closed in, then I looked at one with captains chairs-comfortable. THen gas went up (if you get my point!).
JD14, I thought you had a Freestyle. and What ever happened to arumage?
I would also be interested to know what the quality of plastics were like on the dashboard and doors.
Thanks
http://news.windingroad.com/trends/spied-new-dodge-jc49-crossover/
Doesn't look big enough to me to be a lambda competitor - sometimes hard to tell from spy photos though.
PDC Cargo Package, includes (RYJ) rear cargo shade and (AP9) rear cargo net
AP9 Cargo net, rear
RYJ Cargo shade, rear
Simple: my wife likes the Enclave better than the Acadia/Outlook, so that pretty much forces me to like the Enclave better ;-)
I think the Enclave will be a styling thing over the other Lambdas, as you have mentioned. It will probably have a higher quality interior and more standard equipment, in order to get itself a little closer to the Acura/Lexus SUVs. Personally I don't think the Enclave can be priced as much as the MDX/Lexus SUVs, so it might be a good deal if you were cross-shopping these vehicles.
But appearance alone it quite a differentiator.
What are your impressions? I see most people don't care about it...
I will note that a local dealer (Memphis, TN) was advertising a 2007 Caravan for below $14K this past weekend. So, I guess a $20K base hauler would be possible if you wanted to drop the bottom out. Do much of this and at some point there is no profit for anyone.
I think... I just threw up in my mouth a little bit.
I have a Lexus LS430 with UL package and an old Mercury Villager that is about to die. Looking to replace it with the Enclave or something of the like.