From the articles, the Outlook will average $35K and the Acadia $45K. Since they're a foot longer than the Pilot, they have more space (rocket science I know!).
Minivan sales could be going down for a number of reasons: - gas prices, so folks not really needing 3 rows all the time may have downsized - other 3 row vehicle alternatives now in the market - demographics - less car-seat aged kids (it's easier for a 14 yr old to climb in the 3rd row of a CUV than it is for mommy to put a 2 yr old in the 3rd row of a CUV - Plus I think that because Ford and GM minivan sales were so bad it pulled down the overall minivan sales in general, so it's not that minivan sales are down, but that nobody wants to buy domestics minivans "Odyssey sales [Aug 2006] of 18,773 units broke the all-time record, increasing 11.6 percent over year-ago results." http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/09/01/020571.html
For the record, I own a Ford Freestyle, not a minivan, because I don't need the really huge space offered by a minivan and I like the car handling characteristics of my big station wagon as folks like to call it. I paid $24K for a vehicle that only slightly smaller (because of it's smaller width) than the lamdas. But it's hard for me to imagine spending $35-45K on average for an Outlook/Acadia because from what I've read, there isn't anything on them worth another $10-20K over what I bought, but again that's just me.
On the other hand, the articles posted above all indicate that the main reason people will be driven to purchase the Outlook/Acadia is for looks and perception. They don't want to be "seen" driving a minivan and they don't like the "look" of a minivan. Of course wanting a "look" is what drove most people to buy giant SUVs, so it should work in this case too.
I think the lamdas will be great alternatives for folks currently driving giant domestics SUVs, and for folks who would have bought domestic minivans that are going away, so for that I'm happy that the lambdas are out there.
Since I don't tow or need AWD, for me personally there's absolutely no way I'd buy a lambda because after graduating high school I stopped being so concerned about the way other people perceive me, so the perception idea of "not wanting to be seen driving a minivan" means nothing to me. I'm not worried about my neighbor making fun of me because I'm driving a minivan, and driving a lambda wouldn't boost my self-esteem as compared to driving a minivan. If I get to the point where I need something bigger that what I have right now, I'll pay $30K for a very nicely equipped Odyssey or Sienna (or even Kia minivan) that have greater interior space to the lambdas, the same exterior size, and that come from a high quality company.
Do I think the lambdas will be a success...yes, as much of a success as the giant SUVs where in the past and being sold to the same market and same types of folks driven by perception and style.
The Acadia is not going average anywhere near $45k. I priced out what I would want in an Acadia, which is the SLT-2 (top trim line) AWD and it comes out to $38,455. Only if you fully load it up with Nav, Ent, and Moonroof are you going to get to $45k. The top of the line is not going to be the average.
I think you give too much weight to perception and style. Of course people are going to tend to buy styles they like, but those truly concerned about others' perception are probably buying Lexus and Acura. I for one will most likely end up with a Lambda because it looks like it best meets my needs coming out of a minivan. I currently have a an old Dodge Gr. Caravan. I would consider another minivan, but want AWD which is no longer an option on the Caravan.
So my only minivan option would be the AWD Sienna (which I have not ruled out). Your comment about demographics is right on the mark for my situation. When I bought my van 10 years ago, it was perfect for my young family and far superior from an accessibility standpoint than anything an SUV could offer. Now my kids are older and I don't have a need for the sliding doors anymore.
My shopping list includes the Lamdas, Mazda CX-9, Sienna, maybe the Hyundai Veracruz and yes, I will probably take a look at the Freestyle. Can't wait for my local auto show in January - shopping is half the fun!
It just seems to me that on the pricing side, I still think they should have price either the Outlook or Acadia lower than the Honda/Toyota/Kia competition because even though it has more interior space, there is still the quality issue of GM when compared to Asian car makers. But for those going from domestic to domestic it won't matter.
Plus for the used car buyers it will be great because of the depreciation of GMs. In a couple of years you'll probably be able to buy a 2007 lambda for $15-20K, and maybe I'll be in the market for one then!
I'd be interested to know how many lambda buyers are trading in Honda/Toyota for their lambda versus another GM?
The other issues of perception were not mine, but what was said in the posted articles. Any particular reason you ruled out the AWD Sienna??
And that's my point with the minivans, when you have 3 kids in carseats and you need space for two strollers and all the baby-gear then you need the max-space of a minivan. But if you have 3 kids in ages 10-18, you might not need the max minivan space but still want 3 rows of seats so you don't need to put all 3 in the back seat of a sedan.
$45k...ouch. That's definitely not going to be the average.
I'm also looking at the CX-9, and the GT trim with Nav and Ent goes for about $40k once you add auto dim mirror, roof rack, etc. So maybe a bit cheaper than the Acadia, but then again you can't get the moonroof with the Ent system on the CX-9.
In the end it's a fine balance of roominess and price. I sat in an Acadia, and it truly is spacious. The third row is actually useable for adults, too. But I just wonder if I really need all that room for a family of four...
I believe I said I have not ruled out the Sienna. Although I do have concerns about the run-flat tires on the AWD Sienna, which many Sienna owners complain about wearing out fast and being expensive to replace. The AWD Sienna does not have room for a spare tire so they've equipped it with run-flats. I haven't looked at the interiors of any of my candidates in person yet, which is why I'm hoping to use the auto show to help narrow the field.
As for resale value, it seems a bit odd to me for a Ford Freestyle owner to be bagging on GM for that. Anyway, for me resale is not a large issue because I tend to keep my cars for 10 years - pretty much any car I buy is going to be of little value when I'm done with it!
Okay Bobw3. I looked up the BASE Freestyle, TMV including $2000 rebate comes to $23,098. So, I pretty much have to assume that you got the base Freestyle with little else. Without rebates net should be $24K to $25K. (Edmunds shows 2 - $1000 rebates...not sure the exact details.)
I then looked up the BASE Outlook. No incentives currently available. Net price is MSRP plus delivery... $27,990. That would be the one you should be comparing instead of the quoted average transaction of one loaded up to $35K.
Difference is more like $4,900, not the $11,000 you seem to be saying. Compare apples to apples and make a valid point.
Just went back and loaded up the BASE Freestyle. That brought it up to over $29K including the $2K incentives... Wow, I can get an Outlook for less than a Freestyle.
To this casual observer a Freestyle looks like a flaming bargain compared to the Outlook. I'll be interested in reading comparison test reports. Yes, I know--they aren't exactly comparable. But still....
My mistake on reading your post...I missed the not.
I agree that Ford resale value stinks too, but two years ago when I bought the Freestyle, there wasn't a vehicle with 3 rows outside of a minivan with the same interior space, and since I didn't need the huge interior minivan space, I went with the Freestyle (tri-level heat/ac, comfort package, curtain airbags, and not much else), so we're talking about 2yr old pricing here.
Now two years later there are other CUVs with adult 3rd rows (CX-9, lambdas, etc.), but 2 yrs ago there weren't, especially in the mid-$20's price range. I'll probably end up keeping my vehicle long enough that the resale value doesn't matter either, but my comment was for folks buying used.
It's true when I compared on cars.com that an Oulook would be in the high $20s and only a couple of thousand more than today's Freestyle equipped about the same. I guess when I read the posted articles the dollar amounts sounded pretty high, but I don't need leather, I'm happy with the standard stereo, and I don't like ceiling DVD players (I'd rather have a few portable ones).
Plus I just read something about the average new car MSRP being $30K and that surprised me too. I thought it was more in the mid-$20s. I guess I'm pretty cheap--to me spending over $30K for any car seems like too much! So everyone can ignore my comments on cost because I must have lost touch with car price reality! What sort of monthly payments are you looking at when buying a car for $35K??? Even if you put down $10K or had a trade-in for $10K, to borrow $25K at 7% for 5 years is about $500/month, or almost $700/month with 100% financed...ouch. I guess if you keep a car for 10 years, but then I have my bias against GM quality, so I don't know if I'd want to keep one that long.
The other thing to keep in mind is that MSRP usually only represents wishful thinking on the part of the domestic automakers. The market is going to decide what these things sell for - not GM. If people decide they're overpriced, GM will have to slap rebates on them - just like they do on most of their vehicles.
Did you look at the Envoy XL 2 years ago? We have one of those and it has a lot of room. Adult size 3rd row seating. Of course, they were probably running more than the Freestyle, upper $20's would have been more like it.
$30K for 60 months works about to about $597/mo. (Would be about $45 per month less if using the 3.99% I got 2.5 years ago... Rates have gone up quite a bit since then.)
I guess we will probably never agree...I have not gotten a good impression in the past while shopping Ford products. Explorer..rough ride, rattles, cheap material. Expedition, cheap, flimsy material on the interion. Some GM products seem to have better material and quality. Of course, I have not really shopped either's lower end products especially cars in years, so my old ideas might be out of date.
Low to mid 30's in about as high as I can see going for a 7-8 passenger ride, decently equiped, but not completely loaded. On the other hand, there are a bunch of folks that will not blink before spending $50-60K for a ride. :-)
so why are you wasting our time with your long winded pats on the back justifing your purchase and let the rest of us get back to what this forum is about. :P
wlbrown9, I got a base, new Freestyle 18 months ago for $22,300 (only option side curtain airbags) with "Employee Pricing". As good as the Freestyle is, the Lambdas look like a great deal, especially the Outlook at $27,000 for the base. The Outlook's engine, tranny, and body look superb. The Outlook's MPG is fantastic for a vehicle anywhere near that size (26 MPG highway for the FWD model). However, what has not been discussed is just how many people can't quite afford a $27,000 vehicle but might be able to spend at $23,000, which can get you a good Suzuki XL7 or Freestyle, two large vehicles.
About the Q7 comparisons, Audi is not known for low-defect vehicles. The Acadia/Outlook/Enclave may have a few initial bugs, but GM is working hard to iron out the kinks. Keep in mind this is a brand-new architecture. GM has never built a FWD vehicle this heavy. I think the very old Toronado/Eldorado FWD luxury cars were about 4,000 lbs tops. The Lambdas come in at a Sumo-like 4700 lbs in 4WD trim, and probably something like 4500 for a FWD model! Still, the 26 MPG is impressive for a 4500 lb vehicle, better than the smaller Ford Edge with the same size engine. My Freestyle is the real MPG champ, as I regularly get 27 MPG with 80% highway driving.
it's hard for me to imagine spending $35-45K on average for an Outlook/Acadia because from what I've read, there isn't anything on them worth another $10-20K over what I bought, but again that's just me. As I have said before, it's relativity. Ford charged that price because they knew with (possibly better) competition, that's all the money they could get out of the buyer without them saying" im looking at a pilot!" As for the 10-20k statement, YOu wouldn't get a topline model if you were a buyer- you'd get the Outlook for 27. ANd Gm knows that people will pay this high 30's price for all the extra space and features they will get. ANd maybe some some flash. the perception idea of "not wanting to be seen driving a minivan" means nothing to me. THat's good-that's you. BUt that's not everyone. SOme just think that for 30+k they should get something that they like that looks good-not settle.Don't get me wrong-A caravan is a quality people mover (the best around)but the gap is closing-judging by sales-fast.ANd like you can pay 32g for a loaded Freestyle, you will be able to pay 37g for it's predecessor! Look at the cost of an Edge!
One thing not brought up is what folks were/are paying for the full size SUV's. They start at $35,000 and quickly can get up over $50k. And they sell. This year with the high gas prices in mind and big vehicles supposedly dieing GM will sellover 400,000 full size SUV's. The average ATP is probably around $45k. And the Lamda does everthing better than the trucks other than tow and off road. If some of those 400,000 truck buyers see this the Lamdas may sell big time. A Freestyle/minivan is just not gonna cut it to these customers.
Yes, GM may see a big drop in large SUV trucks in the coming year and hopefully they will buy the Lamdas.
Saturn will have the lowest MSRP's but once there are enough Acadia's out there and the bloom has worn off a bit (6-12 months/after the Enclave is out?) perhaps you could haggle a GMC dealer down enough to make them about even in price.
That fits my situation. We have an 03 Expedition that will probably end up having a higher transaction price than a Lamda will if we end up buying one. I would be looking at an Acadia of MSRP of about $40k, so transaction price of about $38K (maybe?). My wife wants the space, but we don't tow much. In concept this platform would take us away from a full sized SUV.
GM is not Hyundai. While they do offer good value in many of their vehicles you cannot expect them to offer more than the competition for thousands less. That is just unrealistic. What GM is offering is more hp and space and style than the competition for a comparable price. You are way off on reliability as well, there is no way GM makes less reliably vehicles than the Koreans. While Hyundai/Kia have been doing better lately in surveys those results are mainly initial quality oriented. In long term JD Power surveys several GM brands place in the top ten.
As for resales value, the residuals on recent GM models has been decent. This is mainly due to the quality of the products and the lack of incentives being used. I think you might want to check out the projected residuals on these models before assuming they will be worthless in three years. I'm pretty sure GM has the best resales value out of the Big 3 and is probably better than the Koreans.
Getting to the third row involves using what GM calls a Smart Slide feature. It is a handle that is designed to move the second row up and out of the way.
On the model we tried, which was an early Acadia built by GM for testing and not quite ready for sale to the public, the handle was balky. A GM spokeswoman said that problem will be solved on the models headed to dealerships in December. Nevertheless, it would be a good thing to check at the dealership before making a purchase.
It is no small trick to combine functionality, polish and a good load of safety equipment at a reasonable starting price. But that's precisely what GM has done with the all-new GMC Acadia.
Well, compared to the Freestyle, the Envoy is 7” taller (I don’t want a ladder to get inside), 7" longer, but interior space is less (2nd row legroom is 4" less and 3rd row legroom is 2" less), MPG is 15/20 vs 20/27, crash tests are all 4 stars while the Freestyle gets 5 stars, price is higher, etc...
And the other posts here agree with some of what I’ve been saying. People are looking at trading in their Suburbans, Chrysler minivans, Trailblazer, Expedition, etc for the lambdas, so for the most part, the buyers look like GM (and some Ford) owners going to another GM. Like I said that's good, but not great for GM who should be looking to attract buyers not currently driving GM.
"GM says the second row has a maximum of 36.9 inches of leg room, which is comparable to the Pilot and Explorer. To provide a little more flexibility the Acadia's second row slides fore and aft a total of four inches. Its 36.9 inches of legroom is measured with the seat roughly in the middle of the four inches, GM says. With the second row in the rearward-most position a six-foot adult can be comfortable in the driver's seat and another six-foot adult can be seated directly behind without being cramped."
So according to GM, it’s comparable (not better) to the Explorer and Pilot, for a 6’ driver to be comfortable with a 6’ passenger behind him, then the 2nd row seat must be all the way back...what about the guy in the 3rd row with the 2nd row all the way back?? My Freestyle has 40” of 2nd row legroom (no my 2nd row bench doesn't slide...and doesn't need to) and a 6’ guy can still sit in the 3rd row.
Yes, the lambdas are good vehicles in a lot of ways, but I'm just pointing out that they're revolutionary in terms of interior space.
And if I didn't write my long posts, the no-one would have anything to responde to :P
But I would like to see someone here post something saying that they're thinking of replacing their Odyssey or Pilot with the new lambda...otherwise it's a forum with a lot of GM die-hards patting themselves on the back. And did someone actually post that the Caravan was the best minivan around...na, I must be mistaken!
And it's good for the guy who keeps pulling out the nice quotes from articles reviewing the lambdas, but remember that the lambdas are in their honeymoon period. You can read articles from every new car out there and find people singing their praises. We'll see after some comparison reviews. It's easy to say how great a vehicle is when you're talking about it in a vacuum, but it's funny how upset people get when you actually try to compare things.
What about the mazda CX-9, or other vehicles. Let's hear some more compare/contrasting to other vehicles.
I just started looking at this site and forum after running in to a website about the new GM Lambda crossovers. I'm not as knowledgeable as many here about new cars (after all, I currently drive a 1996 Buick Roadmaster wagon), but I'll throw in my two cents.
There's been a lot of talk about where the Lambda cars will fit in to the market and what the competition will be. Up til now, I'd been thinking I'd buy a new Toyota/Honda/Hyundai minivan whenever my old wagon bit the dust. But then I started reading about new and upcoming crossovers. Now, the Buick Enclave tops my list. I like the 4WD feature, the look of it, and the ride quality (as discussed in reviews) over any of the minivans. And among crossovers it appeals to me, especially because of space. Obviously, no crossover competes with minivans for interior space, but the GMs come closest: 69 cu. ft. with 5 passengers (my family) vs. 48 for the Freestyle, CX-9, and Pilot. And 20 cu. ft. with 7 passengers vs. 16 for the Freestyle and Pilot, and 17 for the CX-9. These small differences mean a lot to large families packing for a trip. The Freestyle still might be attractive because of its lower price, but the engine and CVT transmission make me strike it from my list.
Lots of people are not at all tired of minivans and will continue to buy them. I don't know how much the crossover market as a whole will cut in to this. But within the crossover market, the new GM models seem tops to me so far.
I am looking at the Acadia as a replacement for a Montero Sport. I have been very pleased with my Montero, and I have gone places that have left my brother's pathfinder stuck. I am realizing though that most of my 4x4 use is forest service roads, and skiing trips. I am sure the Acadia would do well on that. The reason I am thinking of the switch is the additional room. With a dog and a small child the Montero quickly runs out of room for any kind of road trip. My wife and I both were thinking the Pilot would be a good replacement, but now I think the Acadia offers a more complete package. Good looks, second row captian chairs, and the right goodies make me think this is what we should get. I am somewhat concerned about pricing, as I have configured it the MSRP is ~ 40K. However it seems that GMC is always offering good promotions. For example the 07 Yukon all ready has very attractive discounts around the Pacific Northwest. As much as I expect the Acadia to be a hit, I also expect there to be discoutns as well, Just seems like that is what General Motors does.
I am looking forward to seeing one in real life. And of course I can't wait to read Karl's review.... :shades:
But I would like to see someone here post something saying that they're thinking of replacing their Odyssey or Pilot with the new lambda...
Okay, here you are!! I have an 05 Pilot EX-L Nav with its lease expiring in apr 07. Up until the Acadia, I planned on replacing it with an ody. The ody has problems with the run-flat tires that honda seems unwilling to face. The Pilot ride harsher than my wife wants. Pending a looooong test drive I PLAN ON REPLACING MY PILOT WITH AN ACADIA. Diehard GM enthusiast? NO! GM hater? yes! my last GM product was a 1974 pickup. I have been a diehard Ford driver, but they are in the pits and, from the corporate side, apparently have no interest in improving.
62vetteefp, The only substantial beef on the Freestyle has been that 203 hp and 208 ft-lbs is not enough, which is merely a tradeoff for better MPG, which the Freestyle gets (20/27 MPG) while delivering 8.2 seconds 0-60 mph (Car and Driver mag.), good enough. The CVT really sets it apart, the Murano being the only other CUV with that, and it is very smoothe. The Outlook/Acadia would do better in my opinion with a 3.2L V6 (instead of a 3.6L) to improve the MPG. We are supposed to be getting weaned off foreign oil sources, aren't we? A 400 HP Outlook would be fun, but at what cost in MPG and oil sourcing?
Me too. We plan on replacing our 04 Pilot EXL with either the Outlook or Acadia. The Honda has not been as trouble-free as expected, and does not have the option for 2nd row buckets, which we really miss from our old Sienna (eases 3rd row access).
I'm totally pumped about this trio......I've got 3 boys - need some towing capability, decent room, gas mileage, dont need a full body / frame SUV (most dont)and would rather not have a minivan. Awesome Job GM!! One of these will be my next purchase!
I read a review on the Freestyle, so I don't have first hand experience, but in addition to lack of power, esp. on the highway loaded with people and gear, there was some talk about noise. On the other hand the ride was rated as good.
Acadia/Outlook real MPG has yet to be calculated by folks actually buying them and driving enough to get some figures, but the rated MPG gain is significant. Power it down enough to kill performance and you make a winner into a loser in a hurry. I was looking at possibly going to a Yukon since I really don't want to step down in size from my '00 Trooper. If the Acadia/Outlook gives 20+ mpg vs. maybe 15 for a Yukon, that is a 33% increase. I'm averaging probably 17-17.5 in my Trooper, so that would probably be a small savings for me.
I may still end up with a 5 passenger Envoy or equivalent. Those can be had reasonably equipped for less than $25K and I have to decide if the extra room is worth the extra money.
I'm wondering what the transaction prices will be after the new wears off and production takes up the initial demand.
What will the bottom line be for a 40K Acadia? I can only go back 2.5 years when we bought the '04 Envoy XL. SLT package got the MSRP w/dest to almost $40K. At that time there was a $5K rebate and my wife gets GSM pricing, so the net was at least $8K under the sticker. Now we are talking a little over $30K which sounds a lot better than $40K :-).
I understand that GM reduced some of their pricing and wanted to cut out some of the big rebates. I think they might have changed the GSM plan up a little, so I don't think you could get that much off now, but a nicely equiped one might actually sell for closer to the low $30s than the upper $30s. Time will tell on that.
the GMC dealer here has one in stock and it's in the back and unable to be sold as there is some sort of embargo on the truck. I was able to get in it, crank it up, play around with the buttons, fold down seats, etc... The one in stock is a SLE with cloth interior. I have to say that I was very impressed and the only piece on the vehicle that I thought was cheap, was the lever to fold down the middle row seat. It's low grade plastic, loose and feels like it's destined to break. Motor was extremely quiet. I am going back in an hour with the girlfriend to get her to consider it. Her spoiled rotten self is in love with the 2007 Acura MDX... I can honestly say, without having drove the Acadia, that is definitely in position No.2 after driving the Acura MDX, Infiniti FX25, Mazda CX-7 (very very boring), BMW X3 and Volvo XC90. I still want to see the Lincoln MKX.... I'll give more info after a second look in an hour. It's carbon metallic and looked very nice... Wish it was a SLT so I could see the quality of the leather.
not much changed, although girlfriend was intimidated by the size of it. I'll need to check the dimensions up against the Acura. The other disapointment in the GMC is the lack of bluetooth capability. That is ridiculous in a brand new 2007 product not to have. Even if you add the navigation system, there is no bluetooth capability. The salesperson mentioned something about some after market piece.... Sorry, but that is not the same as something built into the vehicle and controlled on the steering wheel like the competitors offer.
You get what you pay for and at it's price point, I do not see any competitors to the GMC Acadia. I havent seen the Mazda CX-9 that Edmunds gives it's Editors choice for SUV's under 35k, because they are not on showroom floors yet.... but based on the CX-7, there is no comparison to the GMC. If the Mazda were an ice cream flavor, Vanilla would call it boring.
So, as of now, the only two con's I see is the lack of bluetooth and that cheap lever on the middle row seat.
I imagine the SLT will have color coordinated door handles and turn signals in the side mirrors, as the SLE did not have that.
Funny you should mention that middle-row lever...when I sat in the Acadia, I gave that lever a try and thought, "My kids would break this thing off in a second". I think a review also mentioned something about this. It also required more effort than I expected to get those seats forward, but then again I haven't worked out in months.
Didn't know that Bluetooth was not an option. Will this apply to the Enclave as well? Definitely want bluetooth: this will be the wife's car, and she's not too crazy about driving and fiddling around with the cell phone.
I think all these crossovers (GM, Mazda, etc) are being slightly overpriced, i.e. they still carry inflated SUV pricing. It makes complete sense to price them at that range since they are meant to draw in the SUV price, but let's not forget that crossovers will also appeal to minivan and station-wagon owners who don't typically pay $40k for a car!
p.s. I would wait until you can sit in a CX-9 and Veracruz before you settle for the MDX. Interior quality is supposedly very nice and not bland.
OK, someone asked for a comparo. We have a Mazda CX-9 on order for delivery in late January/early February. (We ordered it in October when it became possible to do so.) Because the power liftgate has become a late introduction on the Mazda we took a look at the Outlook (and also the Pacifica) at our local Saturn dealer. Although all the "ingredients" are there that we want: i.e. three relatively easy and comfortable rows of seats, xenon hid headlights, RUG, good storage space behind the third row and moonroof we are sticking with the CX-9 w/o the PLG. The Outlook is a climb to get into and it has a "plasticy" dashboard. It seems huge, too. The Mazda, although we haven't seen one in the flesh, is rumored to have a Lexus quality interior (in the GT version) and it has a similar 6 cylinder, 6-speed auto trans too. Here's the kicker: It's at least $1K less expensive equiped similarly. (The Enclave, which my wife and I saw last March at the Cleveland Auto Show will be in Acura MDX territory and is therefore a non-starter.) IMHO, GM has these vehicles priced too high vs. the competition!
The salesperson at the dealership totally agreed on the bluetooth issue and obviously it is a source of contention between dealers and GM corporate. Supposedly, if you are a verizon customer, you can get a phone from GM that will work through the navigation system. Well, Verizon probably has the least number of customers of all of the wireless carriers in my area. So, if you're a happy customer with one of the other cell phone providers or locked into a long term contract, you're out of luck.
As far as waiting on the CX-9... You look at a CX-7 and you are looking at about 95% of what the CX-9 is... they changed the center stripe on the leather seats and the thing is longer.... other than that, it's the same boring styling.. Frankly, it makes some of Hondas boring interiors look fancy. The whole vehicle just bores me... nothing exciting or noteworthy about the styling IMO.
I drive a 2004 AWD Lincoln Aviator and the only new mid-sized SUV that I would give it up for is the MDX... Although, the Buick Enclave has had my eye since pictures first surfaced a year or so ago.
Girlfriend drives a 2001 Mazda Tribute and she is the one the vehicle is for.. Acura is her favorite, she was dead against the GMC just because she has spoiled her eyeballs and senses by looking at luxury nameplates (Acura, Infiniti, BMW).
If I were ready to get rid of Aviator, I would definitely wait until Enclave, Acadia Denali to compare with MDX.
Now, if I weren't able to spend over 40k for a SUV... Acadia definitely over Mazda and other competitors.
The Audio Q7 3.6L V6 version lists at $39,000, similar to a loaded-up Acadia, and has dimensions surprisingly identical to the Acadia/Outlook/Enclave. If they can come close to the Q7's performance level, then GM has a hit. GM already beats about anything in the class at MPG, anyway. Only my Freestyle beats it at MPG, but its 2 inches narrower (same length). The CX-9 is certainly another competitor. The Pilot is really too short to compare closely, although its in there.
The GMC Acadia just got a "First Drive" from Car and Driver, the best auto testers around. A quote: "The steering is precise and accurate, the handling is poised, body control in the twisties is excellent, and the ride is well controlled and supple. The brakes have a firm pedal feel, and are able to woe the 5000-pound Acadia with aplomb." That was from (click the following link)Test Drive
Maxivan Unlike some of the primordial crossovers, like the Chrysler Pacifica and Ford Freestyle, the Outlook effectively delivers all the goodness of a minivan — price range, seating flexibility, fuel economy, standard safety and available options — with the SUV looks so many minivan-averse families are seeking. Unless you really need a true off-roader, or have to tow more than the Outlook's 4,500-pound rating, this Saturn is also the perfect alternative to a traditional truck-based SUV like the Ford Expedition or Chevy Tahoe.
General Motors might be about a decade late with its V6-powered, SUV-silhouetted, unibody people hauler, but GM got it right. The full-size 2007 Saturn Outlook really is the world's first anti-SUV, anti-minivan utility vehicle, and it just might be the next big thing.
Your freestyle is not 2" narrower than the Lambdas, but 4"...unless Ford increased the width/size of its already abundant finder/wheel well cladding for 07'. However it is 2" narrower than the new CX-9.
With Digital On-Star you can add the built-in phone to a shared minute Verizon plan. So, it would be another phone to share the minutes...net cost of maybe $15/mo, $10 + all the taxes and fees. With any On-Star plan you can purchase minutes to use on the built-in phone...more expensive than shared minutes with Verizon. I would assume these come out Digital, older versions like my '04 have analog that is upgradeable to Digital. Analog is not required to be supported after Jan 1, 2008 IIRC.
And did someone actually post that the Caravan was the best minivan around...na, I must be mistaken! Sorry off topic, but common!- for price comfort and convienience, you can't beat caravan. Can and Odessey and sienna(even the one that tops out at 40 large!) fold second row seats into the floor for most cargo space in class? didn't think so!!! Must I mention that you will pay near msrp for expensive 40g sienna and oddesey-as opposed to 34 for an overloaded Town and Country. Even though a little outdated, there's not any better for your money. Engine is a little weak, but who races Minivans? When updated, this van will conquer all! I though you at least liked quality at a good price (though I don't know where Freestyle fits into quality, Bob).I'll say it again, and get mad if anyone goes off on me for getting off topic-sorry for going off topic! Anyway, It's plain english- THe Acadia seats adults comfortably in second-and third row. No hard to reach editors-just another guy on the post. Take it from me! Sounds like they are already getting good reviews for comfort and handling (no complaints from edmunds). And coldcranker- even though engines are big and performance pushed, lambdas still make 19 and 26 mpg. They are going into new crossover territory, and most of the trucks they overlap (Envoy XL and Uplander) are being kicked out. THey will bring new pilot owners. Thanks for the long posts Bob. THey really give this forum some energy!!!
pig, You're basically correct: Acadia = 78.2" vs. Freestyle = 74.4", a diff of 3.8", or 1.9" on each side. The Pacifica is the real Sumo amongst the competitors, as it is a whopping 79.3" wide, which is actually greater than a new Yukon! For most people who have to park these beasts, the Freestyle is going to be more manageable. In a few years, we'll all be driving school buses, because more girth is better....
You ever wonder why Edmunds always records such low mpg numbers? In case you haven't, I'll tell you why. The reason they got 15.5 mpg average is very simple. What do you think that they were doing all week? Slalom, 0-60, braking distance from 60-0 mph, etc. etc. They were putting the car through performance testing, not cruising it along the highway to see the maximum mpg that they could get.
Actually I have been pretty surprized by the numbers the press have been getting on these vehicles. They seem to be getting pretty close to the epa numbers which I truly did not think would happen.
WHen I got into it and played with the seats, the handle was sorta cheap, but not too terrible. I'm willing to use super glue! Or i'll let the dealer do it. I'm sure the Freestyle/ Pacifica/ Pilot have their faults too. Edmunds only had 2 complaints with the Outlook- the handle, and a minor dislike of the A/C control setup on the dash (nothing huge). GM's getting it's props. I will say I'm a little disapointed if the bluetooth thing is true. THough I won't get every option, this would be a convinience to me. Freestyle doesn't have Navigtion! Pilot-17 average mpg.
You ever wonder why Edmunds always records such low mpg numbers?
The Edmunds cars are also driven by a bunch of different drivers, especially the long term fleet cars, and lots of it is LA commuting (that's where all that 60-0 braking comes in, LOL).
The Acadia's list of advantages when placed alongside the competition is nearly as impressive as its interior space. As noted, the GMC provides more interior space than the new-for-2007 Acura MDX and Mazda CX-9. It also offers more horsepower, better fuel mileage and greater seating capacity (with every seat being fully functional). The MDX beats it slightly on horsepower, but costs thousands more. The CX-9 is similarly priced, but it's smaller, down on power and missing a few of the Acadia's premium options, such as the dual sunroofs and head-up display.
Comments
Minivan sales could be going down for a number of reasons:
- gas prices, so folks not really needing 3 rows all the time may have downsized
- other 3 row vehicle alternatives now in the market
- demographics - less car-seat aged kids (it's easier for a 14 yr old to climb in the 3rd row of a CUV than it is for mommy to put a 2 yr old in the 3rd row of a CUV
- Plus I think that because Ford and GM minivan sales were so bad it pulled down the overall minivan sales in general, so it's not that minivan sales are down, but that nobody wants to buy domestics minivans
"Odyssey sales [Aug 2006] of 18,773 units broke the all-time record, increasing 11.6 percent over year-ago results."
http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/09/01/020571.html
For the record, I own a Ford Freestyle, not a minivan, because I don't need the really huge space offered by a minivan and I like the car handling characteristics of my big station wagon as folks like to call it. I paid $24K for a vehicle that only slightly smaller (because of it's smaller width) than the lamdas. But it's hard for me to imagine spending $35-45K on average for an Outlook/Acadia because from what I've read, there isn't anything on them worth another $10-20K over what I bought, but again that's just me.
On the other hand, the articles posted above all indicate that the main reason people will be driven to purchase the Outlook/Acadia is for looks and perception. They don't want to be "seen" driving a minivan and they don't like the "look" of a minivan. Of course wanting a "look" is what drove most people to buy giant SUVs, so it should work in this case too.
I think the lamdas will be great alternatives for folks currently driving giant domestics SUVs, and for folks who would have bought domestic minivans that are going away, so for that I'm happy that the lambdas are out there.
Since I don't tow or need AWD, for me personally there's absolutely no way I'd buy a lambda because after graduating high school I stopped being so concerned about the way other people perceive me, so the perception idea of "not wanting to be seen driving a minivan" means nothing to me. I'm not worried about my neighbor making fun of me because I'm driving a minivan, and driving a lambda wouldn't boost my self-esteem as compared to driving a minivan. If I get to the point where I need something bigger that what I have right now, I'll pay $30K for a very nicely equipped Odyssey or Sienna (or even Kia minivan) that have greater interior space to the lambdas, the same exterior size, and that come from a high quality company.
Do I think the lambdas will be a success...yes, as much of a success as the giant SUVs where in the past and being sold to the same market and same types of folks driven by perception and style.
I think you give too much weight to perception and style. Of course people are going to tend to buy styles they like, but those truly concerned about others' perception are probably buying Lexus and Acura. I for one will most likely end up with a Lambda because it looks like it best meets my needs coming out of a minivan. I currently have a an old Dodge Gr. Caravan. I would consider another minivan, but want AWD which is no longer an option on the Caravan.
So my only minivan option would be the AWD Sienna (which I have not ruled out). Your comment about demographics is right on the mark for my situation. When I bought my van 10 years ago, it was perfect for my young family and far superior from an accessibility standpoint than anything an SUV could offer. Now my kids are older and I don't have a need for the sliding doors anymore.
My shopping list includes the Lamdas, Mazda CX-9, Sienna, maybe the Hyundai Veracruz and yes, I will probably take a look at the Freestyle. Can't wait for my local auto show in January - shopping is half the fun!
It just seems to me that on the pricing side, I still think they should have price either the Outlook or Acadia lower than the Honda/Toyota/Kia competition because even though it has more interior space, there is still the quality issue of GM when compared to Asian car makers. But for those going from domestic to domestic it won't matter.
Plus for the used car buyers it will be great because of the depreciation of GMs. In a couple of years you'll probably be able to buy a 2007 lambda for $15-20K, and maybe I'll be in the market for one then!
I'd be interested to know how many lambda buyers are trading in Honda/Toyota for their lambda versus another GM?
The other issues of perception were not mine, but what was said in the posted articles. Any particular reason you ruled out the AWD Sienna??
And that's my point with the minivans, when you have 3 kids in carseats and you need space for two strollers and all the baby-gear then you need the max-space of a minivan. But if you have 3 kids in ages 10-18, you might not need the max minivan space but still want 3 rows of seats so you don't need to put all 3 in the back seat of a sedan.
I'm also looking at the CX-9, and the GT trim with Nav and Ent goes for about $40k once you add auto dim mirror, roof rack, etc. So maybe a bit cheaper than the Acadia, but then again you can't get the moonroof with the Ent system on the CX-9.
In the end it's a fine balance of roominess and price. I sat in an Acadia, and it truly is spacious. The third row is actually useable for adults, too. But I just wonder if I really need all that room for a family of four...
As for resale value, it seems a bit odd to me for a Ford Freestyle owner to be bagging on GM for that. Anyway, for me resale is not a large issue because I tend to keep my cars for 10 years - pretty much any car I buy is going to be of little value when I'm done with it!
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/12/12/bad-motor-mount-halts-sale-of-saturn-outlook-- and-gmc-acadia/
I then looked up the BASE Outlook. No incentives currently available. Net price is MSRP plus delivery... $27,990. That would be the one you should be comparing instead of the quoted average transaction of one loaded up to $35K.
Difference is more like $4,900, not the $11,000 you seem to be saying. Compare apples to apples and make a valid point.
Just went back and loaded up the BASE Freestyle. That brought it up to over $29K including the $2K incentives... Wow, I can get an Outlook for less than a Freestyle.
I agree that Ford resale value stinks too, but two years ago when I bought the Freestyle, there wasn't a vehicle with 3 rows outside of a minivan with the same interior space, and since I didn't need the huge interior minivan space, I went with the Freestyle (tri-level heat/ac, comfort package, curtain airbags, and not much else), so we're talking about 2yr old pricing here.
Now two years later there are other CUVs with adult 3rd rows (CX-9, lambdas, etc.), but 2 yrs ago there weren't, especially in the mid-$20's price range. I'll probably end up keeping my vehicle long enough that the resale value doesn't matter either, but my comment was for folks buying used.
It's true when I compared on cars.com that an Oulook would be in the high $20s and only a couple of thousand more than today's Freestyle equipped about the same. I guess when I read the posted articles the dollar amounts sounded pretty high, but I don't need leather, I'm happy with the standard stereo, and I don't like ceiling DVD players (I'd rather have a few portable ones).
Plus I just read something about the average new car MSRP being $30K and that surprised me too. I thought it was more in the mid-$20s. I guess I'm pretty cheap--to me spending over $30K for any car seems like too much! So everyone can ignore my comments on cost because I must have lost touch with car price reality! What sort of monthly payments are you looking at when buying a car for $35K??? Even if you put down $10K or had a trade-in for $10K, to borrow $25K at 7% for 5 years is about $500/month, or almost $700/month with 100% financed...ouch. I guess if you keep a car for 10 years, but then I have my bias against GM quality, so I don't know if I'd want to keep one that long.
$30K for 60 months works about to about $597/mo. (Would be about $45 per month less if using the 3.99% I got 2.5 years ago... Rates have gone up quite a bit since then.)
I guess we will probably never agree...I have not gotten a good impression in the past while shopping Ford products. Explorer..rough ride, rattles, cheap material. Expedition, cheap, flimsy material on the interion. Some GM products seem to have better material and quality. Of course, I have not really shopped either's lower end products especially cars in years, so my old ideas might be out of date.
Low to mid 30's in about as high as I can see going for a 7-8 passenger ride, decently equiped, but not completely loaded. On the other hand, there are a bunch of folks that will not blink before spending $50-60K for a ride. :-)
About the Q7 comparisons, Audi is not known for low-defect vehicles. The Acadia/Outlook/Enclave may have a few initial bugs, but GM is working hard to iron out the kinks. Keep in mind this is a brand-new architecture. GM has never built a FWD vehicle this heavy. I think the very old Toronado/Eldorado FWD luxury cars were about 4,000 lbs tops. The Lambdas come in at a Sumo-like 4700 lbs in 4WD trim, and probably something like 4500 for a FWD model! Still, the 26 MPG is impressive for a 4500 lb vehicle, better than the smaller Ford Edge with the same size engine. My Freestyle is the real MPG champ, as I regularly get 27 MPG with 80% highway driving.
As I have said before, it's relativity. Ford charged that price because they knew with (possibly better) competition, that's all the money they could get out of the buyer without them saying" im looking at a pilot!" As for the 10-20k statement, YOu wouldn't get a topline model if you were a buyer- you'd get the Outlook for 27. ANd Gm knows that people will pay this high 30's price for all the extra space and features they will get. ANd maybe some some flash.
the perception idea of "not wanting to be seen driving a minivan" means nothing to me.
THat's good-that's you. BUt that's not everyone. SOme just think that for 30+k they should get something that they like that looks good-not settle.Don't get me wrong-A caravan is a quality people mover (the best around)but the gap is closing-judging by sales-fast.ANd like you can pay 32g for a loaded Freestyle, you will be able to pay 37g for it's predecessor! Look at the cost of an Edge!
Yes, GM may see a big drop in large SUV trucks in the coming year and hopefully they will buy the Lamdas.
Saturn will have the lowest MSRP's but once there are enough Acadia's out there and the bloom has worn off a bit (6-12 months/after the Enclave is out?) perhaps you could haggle a GMC dealer down enough to make them about even in price.
Karl
As for resales value, the residuals on recent GM models has been decent. This is mainly due to the quality of the products and the lack of incentives being used. I think you might want to check out the projected residuals on these models before assuming they will be worthless in three years. I'm pretty sure GM has the best resales value out of the Big 3 and is probably better than the Koreans.
On the model we tried, which was an early Acadia built by GM for testing and not quite ready for sale to the public, the handle was balky. A GM spokeswoman said that problem will be solved on the models headed to dealerships in December. Nevertheless, it would be a good thing to check at the dealership before making a purchase.
Summary
It is no small trick to combine functionality, polish and a good load of safety equipment at a reasonable starting price. But that's precisely what GM has done with the all-new GMC Acadia.
Well, compared to the Freestyle, the Envoy is 7” taller (I don’t want a ladder to get inside), 7" longer, but interior space is less (2nd row legroom is 4" less and 3rd row legroom is 2" less), MPG is 15/20 vs 20/27, crash tests are all 4 stars while the Freestyle gets 5 stars, price is higher, etc...
And the other posts here agree with some of what I’ve been saying. People are looking at trading in their Suburbans, Chrysler minivans, Trailblazer, Expedition, etc for the lambdas, so for the most part, the buyers look like GM (and some Ford) owners going to another GM. Like I said that's good, but not great for GM who should be looking to attract buyers not currently driving GM.
From the same article http://www.newcartestdrive.com/review-walk.cfm?Vehicle=2007_GMC_Acadia&ReviewID=- - 2001
"GM says the second row has a maximum of 36.9 inches of leg room, which is comparable to the Pilot and Explorer. To provide a little more flexibility the Acadia's second row slides fore and aft a total of four inches. Its 36.9 inches of legroom is measured with the seat roughly in the middle of the four inches, GM says. With the second row in the rearward-most position a six-foot adult can be comfortable in the driver's seat and another six-foot adult can be seated directly behind without being cramped."
So according to GM, it’s comparable (not better) to the Explorer and Pilot, for a 6’ driver to be comfortable with a 6’ passenger behind him, then the 2nd row seat must be all the way back...what about the guy in the 3rd row with the 2nd row all the way back?? My Freestyle has 40” of 2nd row legroom (no my 2nd row bench doesn't slide...and doesn't need to) and a 6’ guy can still sit in the 3rd row.
Yes, the lambdas are good vehicles in a lot of ways, but I'm just pointing out that they're revolutionary in terms of interior space.
And if I didn't write my long posts, the no-one would have anything to responde to :P
But I would like to see someone here post something saying that they're thinking of replacing their Odyssey or Pilot with the new lambda...otherwise it's a forum with a lot of GM die-hards patting themselves on the back. And did someone actually post that the Caravan was the best minivan around...na, I must be mistaken!
And it's good for the guy who keeps pulling out the nice quotes from articles reviewing the lambdas, but remember that the lambdas are in their honeymoon period. You can read articles from every new car out there and find people singing their praises. We'll see after some comparison reviews. It's easy to say how great a vehicle is when you're talking about it in a vacuum, but it's funny how upset people get when you actually try to compare things.
What about the mazda CX-9, or other vehicles. Let's hear some more compare/contrasting to other vehicles.
As far as diehard GM fans I hope that once the Lamdas are available the buyers will come here and tell us what they think.
There's been a lot of talk about where the Lambda cars will fit in to the market and what the competition will be. Up til now, I'd been thinking I'd buy a new Toyota/Honda/Hyundai minivan whenever my old wagon bit the dust. But then I started reading about new and upcoming crossovers. Now, the Buick Enclave tops my list. I like the 4WD feature, the look of it, and the ride quality (as discussed in reviews) over any of the minivans. And among crossovers it appeals to me, especially because of space. Obviously, no crossover competes with minivans for interior space, but the GMs come closest: 69 cu. ft. with 5 passengers (my family) vs. 48 for the Freestyle, CX-9, and Pilot. And 20 cu. ft. with 7 passengers vs. 16 for the Freestyle and Pilot, and 17 for the CX-9. These small differences mean a lot to large families packing for a trip. The Freestyle still might be attractive because of its lower price, but the engine and CVT transmission make me strike it from my list.
Lots of people are not at all tired of minivans and will continue to buy them. I don't know how much the crossover market as a whole will cut in to this. But within the crossover market, the new GM models seem tops to me so far.
I am looking forward to seeing one in real life.
Okay, here you are!! I have an 05 Pilot EX-L Nav with its lease expiring in apr 07. Up until the Acadia, I planned on replacing it with an ody. The ody has problems with the run-flat tires that honda seems unwilling to face. The Pilot ride harsher than my wife wants. Pending a looooong test drive I PLAN ON REPLACING MY PILOT WITH AN ACADIA. Diehard GM enthusiast? NO! GM hater? yes! my last GM product was a 1974 pickup. I have been a diehard Ford driver, but they are in the pits and, from the corporate side, apparently have no interest in improving.
The only substantial beef on the Freestyle has been that 203 hp and 208 ft-lbs is not enough, which is merely a tradeoff for better MPG, which the Freestyle gets (20/27 MPG) while delivering 8.2 seconds 0-60 mph (Car and Driver mag.), good enough. The CVT really sets it apart, the Murano being the only other CUV with that, and it is very smoothe. The Outlook/Acadia would do better in my opinion with a 3.2L V6 (instead of a 3.6L) to improve the MPG. We are supposed to be getting weaned off foreign oil sources, aren't we? A 400 HP Outlook would be fun, but at what cost in MPG and oil sourcing?
Acadia/Outlook real MPG has yet to be calculated by folks actually buying them and driving enough to get some figures, but the rated MPG gain is significant. Power it down enough to kill performance and you make a winner into a loser in a hurry. I was looking at possibly going to a Yukon since I really don't want to step down in size from my '00 Trooper. If the Acadia/Outlook gives 20+ mpg vs. maybe 15 for a Yukon, that is a 33% increase. I'm averaging probably 17-17.5 in my Trooper, so that would probably be a small savings for me.
I may still end up with a 5 passenger Envoy or equivalent. Those can be had reasonably equipped for less than $25K and I have to decide if the extra room is worth the extra money.
What will the bottom line be for a 40K Acadia? I can only go back 2.5 years when we bought the '04 Envoy XL. SLT package got the MSRP w/dest to almost $40K. At that time there was a $5K rebate and my wife gets GSM pricing, so the net was at least $8K under the sticker. Now we are talking a little over $30K which sounds a lot better than $40K :-).
I understand that GM reduced some of their pricing and wanted to cut out some of the big rebates. I think they might have changed the GSM plan up a little, so I don't think you could get that much off now, but a nicely equiped one might actually sell for closer to the low $30s than the upper $30s. Time will tell on that.
You get what you pay for and at it's price point, I do not see any competitors to the GMC Acadia. I havent seen the Mazda CX-9 that Edmunds gives it's Editors choice for SUV's under 35k, because they are not on showroom floors yet.... but based on the CX-7, there is no comparison to the GMC. If the Mazda were an ice cream flavor, Vanilla would call it boring.
So, as of now, the only two con's I see is the lack of bluetooth and that cheap lever on the middle row seat.
I imagine the SLT will have color coordinated door handles and turn signals in the side mirrors, as the SLE did not have that.
Didn't know that Bluetooth was not an option. Will this apply to the Enclave as well? Definitely want bluetooth: this will be the wife's car, and she's not too crazy about driving and fiddling around with the cell phone.
I think all these crossovers (GM, Mazda, etc) are being slightly overpriced, i.e. they still carry inflated SUV pricing. It makes complete sense to price them at that range since they are meant to draw in the SUV price, but let's not forget that crossovers will also appeal to minivan and station-wagon owners who don't typically pay $40k for a car!
p.s. I would wait until you can sit in a CX-9 and Veracruz before you settle for the MDX. Interior quality is supposedly very nice and not bland.
Jay
As far as waiting on the CX-9... You look at a CX-7 and you are looking at about 95% of what the CX-9 is... they changed the center stripe on the leather seats and the thing is longer.... other than that, it's the same boring styling.. Frankly, it makes some of Hondas boring interiors look fancy. The whole vehicle just bores me... nothing exciting or noteworthy about the styling IMO.
I drive a 2004 AWD Lincoln Aviator and the only new mid-sized SUV that I would give it up for is the MDX... Although, the Buick Enclave has had my eye since pictures first surfaced a year or so ago.
Girlfriend drives a 2001 Mazda Tribute and she is the one the vehicle is for.. Acura is her favorite, she was dead against the GMC just because she has spoiled her eyeballs and senses by looking at luxury nameplates (Acura, Infiniti, BMW).
If I were ready to get rid of Aviator, I would definitely wait until Enclave, Acadia Denali to compare with MDX.
Now, if I weren't able to spend over 40k for a SUV... Acadia definitely over Mazda and other competitors.
The Audio Q7 3.6L V6 version lists at $39,000, similar to a loaded-up Acadia, and has dimensions surprisingly identical to the Acadia/Outlook/Enclave. If they can come close to the Q7's performance level, then GM has a hit. GM already beats about anything in the class at MPG, anyway. Only my Freestyle beats it at MPG, but its 2 inches narrower (same length). The CX-9 is certainly another competitor. The Pilot is really too short to compare closely, although its in there.
The GMC Acadia just got a "First Drive" from Car and Driver, the best auto testers around. A quote: "The steering is precise and accurate, the handling is poised, body control in the twisties is excellent, and the ride is well controlled and supple. The brakes have a firm pedal feel, and are able to woe the 5000-pound Acadia with aplomb." That was from (click the following link)Test Drive
Maxivan
Unlike some of the primordial crossovers, like the Chrysler Pacifica and Ford Freestyle, the Outlook effectively delivers all the goodness of a minivan — price range, seating flexibility, fuel economy, standard safety and available options — with the SUV looks so many minivan-averse families are seeking. Unless you really need a true off-roader, or have to tow more than the Outlook's 4,500-pound rating, this Saturn is also the perfect alternative to a traditional truck-based SUV like the Ford Expedition or Chevy Tahoe.
General Motors might be about a decade late with its V6-powered, SUV-silhouetted, unibody people hauler, but GM got it right. The full-size 2007 Saturn Outlook really is the world's first anti-SUV, anti-minivan utility vehicle, and it just might be the next big thing.
2" narrower than the new CX-9.
Sorry off topic, but common!- for price comfort and convienience, you can't beat caravan. Can and Odessey and sienna(even the one that tops out at 40 large!) fold second row seats into the floor for most cargo space in class? didn't think so!!! Must I mention that you will pay near msrp for expensive 40g sienna and oddesey-as opposed to 34 for an overloaded Town and Country. Even though a little outdated, there's not any better for your money. Engine is a little weak, but who races Minivans? When updated, this van will conquer all! I though you at least liked quality at a good price (though I don't know where Freestyle fits into quality, Bob).I'll say it again, and get mad if anyone goes off on me for getting off topic-sorry for going off topic! Anyway, It's plain english- THe Acadia seats adults comfortably in second-and third row. No hard to reach editors-just another guy on the post. Take it from me! Sounds like they are already getting good reviews for comfort and handling (no complaints from edmunds). And coldcranker- even though engines are big and performance pushed, lambdas still make 19 and 26 mpg. They are going into new crossover territory, and most of the trucks they overlap (Envoy XL and Uplander) are being kicked out. THey will bring new pilot owners. Thanks for the long posts Bob. THey really give this forum some energy!!!
Okay if you insist...you said And coldcranker- even though engines are big and performance pushed, lambdas still make 19 and 26 mpg
And the article said:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FullTests/articleId=118803
Rated at 18 mpg city and 26 mpg highway, our Outlook returned a best-tank fuel economy of 19 mpg and an overall week's average of 15.5 mpg
And the handles to get to the 3rd row feel like they're going to break off I'm told.
Still no comments on the Caravan
You're basically correct: Acadia = 78.2" vs. Freestyle = 74.4", a diff of 3.8", or 1.9" on each side. The Pacifica is the real Sumo amongst the competitors, as it is a whopping 79.3" wide, which is actually greater than a new Yukon! For most people who have to park these beasts, the Freestyle is going to be more manageable. In a few years, we'll all be driving school buses, because more girth is better....
The Edmunds cars are also driven by a bunch of different drivers, especially the long term fleet cars, and lots of it is LA commuting (that's where all that 60-0 braking comes in, LOL).
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=118833