Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave

62vetteefp

Need a pic. but frome what I recalll there are two long flat plastic slots level with the carpet that the seat tracks slip into.

zman3

I may have been a bit harsh in diminshing your concerns. I've only seen one Outlook so I did not study the tracks in great detail. If you are not putting your mother in the third row, which I assume you would not do, are the tracks that accessible? My recollection, although maybe not entirely accurate, was that the tracks are fairly hidden unless you are going to slide and tumble the second row forward to allow access to the third row.

One option may to be to slide the second row seat slightly forward before she gets in. I think anyone nimble enough to get in the third row should not have issues with the tracks.

1487

I fail to see why people think that it's "safer" to go with an import brand because of concerns about first year reliability since all cars are covered by warranties. Granted, no one wants to be at the dealership every other month but these days most problems with new vehicles classify as annoyances rather than reliability issues. To me reliability is about your vehicle starting up every single morning and never leaving you stranded. By and large every vehicle today is going to do that for the first 4-5 years at the minimum. If you plan to keep your vehicle 8+ years than maybe I can see going with an import if you honestly believe GM's quality hasnt improved but we all know most buyers dont keep vehicles more than 5-6 years before trading them in. First year problems are found across the board, look at the CR ratings for the Avalon and Acura RL after their initial years.

coldcranker

1487,
Remember the JD Powers Quality surveys we hear about are for Initial Quality. GM did very well (tops) in durability/reliability after 3 years. Therefore, people should not be concerned about the small differences in Initial Quality, since big problems are rare in modern cars, and GM uses quality materials that hold up over time.

stever

JD Power also does 1-2 and 4-5 year surveys (we have them at Edmunds.com as Power Circle ratings when you look up the various make/models).

Doesn't help much for brand new models though.

kenym

Annoyances rather than reliability issues.

When my 2002 Buick Rendezvous ( First year model ) wasn't in the shop it started and most of the time got me to where I wanted to be ( Reliability maybe ).

( Annoying or Reliability ) :sick:
Horn blowing lights flashing windshield wipers going full blast. All this in an attached garage at 3:00 AM. I had to go out to the garage start the motor put the car in gear pull forward and the BCM would reset itself. Happened 3 times Not all ways at 3:00 AM though

( Annoying or Reliability ) :sick:
While driving the windshield wipers would come on full blast. The only way to stop them was to pull off to the side of the road and turn the key off. If you couldn't pull over you had to keep using the washer fluid or scratch the windshield. Happened 5 times

( Annoying or Reliability ) :sick:
While at a full service car wash. Vehicle jumped into gear locking all 4 doors, ran through the car wash striking several cars and doing about four hundred dollars worth of damage. Happened once... Told me not too come back.

All these examples I stated here were caused by a faulty BCM's ( Body Control Modules ) Buick replaced three of them at about $800 each in the four and a half years I owned the car. :P

( Annoying or Reliability ) :sick:
Buick rebuilt the engine twice because coolant from the radiator was getting into the engine block through the intake gaskets. Buick also replaced the air conditioner and the radio twice

jacko15

That's quite a roll of bad luck! Don't know if I'd ever own GM after that. But I have a '95 Grand Am SE and a '97 Grand Prix GT that I bought new, and have had very few problems with either one in all those driving years. I guess you buy your ticket and take your chances with anything you buy, but on the whole I think the odds are pretty good with GM vehicles. I once owned a Ford Bronco II I purchased new and unloaded after less than two years. That was the last Ford I'll ever own. My brother won't drive anything else.

readerreader

Is it just me..or has anyone else noticed that the second row seating floor area is junky looking and unsafe? Because they have tracks and a plastic frame around the tracks the floor is not flat. Someone could twist their ankle on the raised plastic frame. My salesman said the carpet would even that out but if there was carpet how would the seats move? I guess if you were rarely planning on entering the rear seat you could have the carpet in place.....maybe add some padding in some areas so the floor became flat. You would have to remove the carpet to move the seat.

Thoughts? Is is about the only thing holding me back from ordering this car. I saw the Ford Edge too and the Saturn/GMC looks much bigger and the interior is nicer...including better seats.

Trying to be polite and understanding here--but surely you can't be serious?!

1. If you have never seen the vehicles in person, "junky-looking" is a pretty wild and baseless thing to say about the car interior tracks area.

2. Twist an ankle? Is that what you wanted to ask?





And a pre-production picture:



I would suggest you put your mother into the front seat if you are worried about anything. If she is that frail, she won't even be able to climb in.

readerreader

readerreader

Here you go:



------------------------------------------------------------
Here are some more non-specific pictures:

readerreader

Just thought the thread could do with some more pictures.

readerreader

Can't really see the side tracks here:





Can't find many other second-row pics, but here are some general ones--











There really is no substitute for seeing it yourself, I would say, but I will try to find and post more real-life pics so you can judge interior distances, size and trim somewhat.
If you have poor depth-perception, don't even try it! Many people are notoriously bad at that.

readerreader

Again, none of the tracks--but more real-looking than the "official" ones--



Look for the sunroof in the picture above.













Okay. It's late. That's all for now.

kenym

I am not sure if it was bad luck, or possibly bad design, or poor quality control on Buick's part, or possibly a combination of all three. I know several people who have owned the 2001 RDV and had some of the problems but not all them and I know one person who had no problems at all. According to my old Buick dealer and Rendezvous forum on Edmunds the problems with the BCM, air conditioner, radio and wheel bearings were well documented and quite common in the first couple of years of production.

brutus22

Speaking of pictures, what I want to see are pictures of the base Saturn/Acadia, ones with cloth seating - non wood trim, I can't find any anywhere, It annoys me every brand always seems to show their cars in the loaded manner, I would like to see both.

Anyone got any of those?

Thanks,
B.

allmet33

I went to a Saturn dealer in my area (DC/MD) and they had and XR on the floor. Only thing it seemed to be missing was the DVD, Nav & sunroof and it was priced at just over $34K.

Now if you go on the Saturn website, they'll have you believing an Outlook with all the goodies will cost you close to $40K.

Anyone else seen any pricing in the real world???

brutus22

I am not familiar with Saturn pricing but I thought they charge a window sticker price, so whatever is listed as MSRP is what you pay there is no dickering, but this is just what I ahve heard do not know the actual facts.

B.

1487

No doubt your car was less than troublefree but I dont know how that relates to the Lamda vehicles. They have nothing in common with the Rendevous. I have had issues with my Alero but the car isnt made anymore and as far as I know my car has little relation to anything GM is putting out today.

allmet33

I too have heard the no haggle pricing of Saturn, I was just wondering if the price for the Outlook was consistent in different areas or not.

nxs138

In "theory" people should pay the same price for a Saturn, but in reality this is not true. A friend of mine purchased an ion a little while back, and got this "flex cash" deal that reduced the price by about $2k. Apparently you have to ask for this flex cash, so not everyone knows about it. I think it is given to dealers who take on extra cars, which can then be passed on to customers.

I've also heard of other instances where there were regional rebates -- so again, some people will be less than others. And there will be other discounts you can find if you look hard enough. And finally, I heard of people getting slightly lower prices by talking to the internet sales manager at the Saturn dealerships.

So to finally answer you question: pricing will likely not be consistent in a couple of months or so, once there are enough Outlooks available.

allmet33

That is sort of what I figured. Thanks for the input.

kenym

My only point was the Enclave is a first year vehicle same as the 2002 Rendezvous was. I believe this is going to be the last production year for the Rendezvous, and the Enclave will replace the Rendezvous in the Buick lineup for 2008. I don't know and really don't care if the Rendezvous has anything in common with the new Enclave. However in my opinion GM seems to have numerous problems with first year models .

readerreader

Such npictures are difficult to find.
You should go to a Saturn dealer and check one out.
They're unlikely to bug you.

I always prefer leather because I HATE GERMS AND DIRT.

kjnorman

Speaking of pictures, what I want to see are pictures of the base Saturn/Acadia, ones with cloth seating - non wood trim, I can't find any anywhere, It annoys me every brand always seems to show their cars in the loaded manner, I would like to see both.


While I do not have pictures I did take a look at a base XE in person and the quality of the cloth seats was very nice IMHO. Now this base version has wood (erm, wood effect plastic) and I thought that looked very nice as well.

My only concerns on the vehicle were the groves for the sliding second row seats and how they would hold up after 5 months of dirt and other rubbish clogs them up, some hard surfaces on the dash and the third row not being as spacious as I thought it would be.

If you are after a base Outlook, I think you will like it.

newz54

Those are great pictures. Thanks. One of them clearly shows a small carpet that covers the track.

I saw the car recently and indeed found the tracks unpolished and 'junky'. When I got in the back seat I felt the tracks made the floor area a little too cluttered. That was my impression but I respect your thoughts to the contrary.

Someone has already speculated what the tracks will look like down the road when kids have dropped papers and stuff down them.

Once again, thanks for the excellent photos. I can't wait till my dealer has one to test drive.

morewasabi

I have a 2005 GM Minivan- Buick Terraza. The van operates beautifully with 17,000 miles. CR is not always on target as they lump one GM model review with all others. They tested only a lower end Saturn model and lumped it with the higher end Buick. If you look at the Edmunds forums and compare the issues with the recommended Honda vans, you would shake your head on how many recurring issues with transmission, and vibrations they are all having. That being said the quality on our Buick has been awesome and it’s a first year model. They're not poor vehicles. Today minivan’s are just not in the sweet spot of the market. The new lambda crossover’s are.

kenym

In all due respect [morewasabi] the Buick Terraza is NOT a first year model. The only thing first year about the vehicle is the "Buick Name Plate" and the "Buick Grill". Other than that it is the old Oldsmobile Silhouette. And you are right they are not poor vehicles they are expensive vehicles and have been around long enough to get all the problems worked out

stever

"While the Relay and Terraza are essentially redesigned versions of GM's previous-generation vans, they do offer several notable styling differences as well as functional features that make them worth considering when shopping for a new family vehicle." Is This Really a Crossover Vehicle? GM Thinks So

Sounds like more than some badge engineering to me. :confuse:

kenym

I totally agree with you Steve they are good sound vehicles worth considering when shopping for a new family vehicle. My point was they are NOT first year models.

bobw3

When you compare GM mivans, like the Buick Terraza, to the lambdas, then the lambdas are more comparable in terms of space.

But in compared to other minivans, the Sienna for example, while the Terraza is 5" longer at 205", the Sienna has 3" more front legroom, 1" more 2nd, and 3" more 3rd, plus a couple of inches more headroom in every row (even though the Sienna is 3" lower), 3-4" more hiproom in every row, a couple inches more shoulder room in rows 1 & 2, and a whopping 13" more shoulder room in the 3rd row (maybe cars.com is wrong?) and finally 43.6 vs 26.9CuFt of luggae space behind the 3rd row.

This lack of space utilization is probably one of the reasons that GM minivans are a thing of the past...compared to the Honda, Toyota, Kia versions, the GM minivans are small inside. So that's why going from a GM minivan to the lambdas isn't such a big stretch.

62vetteefp

It's a rare moment in the auto business when a vehicle seems just right, so much so that it transcends annoyances and omissions to sit atop its class.
Salients this year: 2007 Jaguar XK (Test Drive, Aug. 11) and '07 Honda CR-V small crossover SUV (Test Drive, Oct. 6).

Now another: 2007 GMC Acadia, a large crossover SUV. It's a new vehicle to GMC's lineup and is the first crossover ever sold by General Motors' (GM) GMC truck brand.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/reviews/healey/2006-12-21-acadia_x.htm

wlbrown9

Waiting to turn on the hwy from the Kroger parking lot and see an unfamiliar looking SUV go by. Pull out and as I catch up with it at the stoplight realize it might be an Outlook. Yep, sure was. Looked to be a dealer demo from the license tag. Got a decent look at rear, side view then the front after I was able to overtake and pass it. I liked the looks, though I'm thinking I would want the Acadia if I decide to go that way sometime in the next year.

Initial impression: Great looking vehicle. Does not give the impression of being a real 'big' vehicle, probably the height. Definitly does not give the impression of being as large as the Tahoe/Yukon. This one looked good in white, would be interesting to see some of the other colors in person as well.

allmet33

I test drove a base model Outlook yesterday. The dealer only had the one and said they're due to get their initial stock in by the end of January.

Initial observations...comfortable driving position, all controls were within comfortable reach of the driver's seat. There's a definite quality feel from the base model cloth up to the leather in the XR. Oh yeah, one other minor complaint I had was with the section of the dash where you can tell what gear you're in. I would prefer a bigger display so it's much easier to locate upon glancing. Especially when you have it in manual shift mode, the numbers that tell you what gear you're in are small.

Okay, okay...on with the drive. Pulled out of the dealership and on to the highway...very smooth acceleration. Visibility seemed to be very good, however...they could have done a better job with the side view mirros (the shape seems to cut off what you might be able to see if it were a fuller mirror).

Asked the salesman if there were any bumpy roads to drive on and he directed me down a series of winding roads, which by the way, the Outlook handled the curves and turns nicely without a whole lot of body roll. Anyway, finally got to the road that had a pretty uneven surface and the Outlook rolled over it without extra noise or discomfort to the passengers.

In all, I would say my experience with the test drive was very, very favorable. If you want a good sized family mover w/o having to buy a mini-van and don't want the bulk of a Tahoe/Expedition...the Outlook/Acadia is the way to go.

Personally...I like the rear glass treatment on the Outlook as opposed to the Acadia, just gives it a sportier look.

Happy New Year to all!!!

wlbrown9

Great. I'm in no real hurry to test drive. I think I'm 6-12 months away from pulling the trigger on anything. Been thinking a little lately. We still have the '04 Envoy XL for more passengers and room. It is tempting to look at a low end 5 passenger Envoy for $22-25K and put off the Lambada for the wife's ride when we need to replace that one in 2-3 years. I would be giving up some gas mileage, but it looks like the Outlook/Acadia would probably be $5-10K more than the Envoy (or possibly Ascender). I'm driving a '00 Trooper and the Envoy would be a closer 'even' swap while the Outlook/Acadia would be a step up in size. Decisions, decisions.

Happy new year to all.

BTW, allmet33, what part of the country are you in? The white Outlook I saw this morning is in Memphis and I doubt that is the one you drove, but is possible.

allmet33

Wlbrown9...I live in MD, so I highly doubt we saw the same vehicle.

However...we don't know exactly when we'll be purchasing, but I do know it will be an Outlook/Acadia/Enclave. I always do my homework well in advance of any purchase. Besides, I was killing time as the steering wheel on my Azera was being replaced and the Saturn dealer was next door.

I do not envy you with the dilemma you have...decisions, decisions. At any rate, good luck and Happy New Year to you and yours!!! :shades:

pig

Please remove me from the forum list...I wish to recieve no futher notices. Have a great 07'!

Best Wishes - Pig

hondaford

I have been anxiously awaiting a chance to test drive an acadia/outlook. No saturn dealers around, GM dealers still saying 4 -8 weeks out.
The holy grail for me is the height of the seat off the road. I am 6', all kinds of arthritis and currently drive a windstar and pilot. I can stand erect, turn and place my butt on the seat without bending. That is the norm for a crossover (IMHO) or minivan.

Some of you who have driven or sat in these vehicles: please share seat-height info so I can continue to wait or quit fretting and buy something else.

Thanks for y'all's help

62vetteefp

Hey Pig, please let us know what you decided before you go. Have not heard from you in a while.

stever

Hi Pig, it sounds like you have email notifications turned on - to turn them off, select Change Tracking and uncheck the "Send me an Email Alert when new messages" are posted box. If that doesn't work, please shoot me or Tidester an email.

readerreader

myoutlook

Test drove an Outlook in mid-December. Saw dealer model sitting out, cream white. Sharp looking. That's the one we test drove. I love the look, almost European designing exterior-wise. I can see how some don't like the back and out it sticks over the wheel base at the end. It doesn't bother me. Interior definitely is roomier than the Trailblazer or Yukon. Love the ability to push down the third row for extra storage. More space to store our dog and our baby's luggage! Interior styling is nice, definite upgrade over what Saturn has used in the past.

Impressions on test drive: Extremely smooth ride, no excessive body roll. My only gripe is the acceleration delay problem that I've noticed with Saturn vehicles before. You punch the gas, and it doesn't respond immediately, it's like it's waiting for the instructions to transmit. I understand this new electronic timing transmission/power delay issue is noticeable in other newer vehicles that use it, but it was especially noticeable in this vehicle.

Overall, we'll probably still buy an Outlook. The price vs. gas mileage vs. size vs. overall look/quality is well worth it in my opinion. But that acceleration lag makes me slightly hesitant.

Did any of you other test drivers notice the lag, too?

rockylee

Those are some nice pics of the Acadia :shades:

Rocky

nxs138

I think the lag issue has been reported on other forums. Most likely a software issue: the new Passat had that same lag issue which was mostly resolved with a software patch. I believe some Toyotas also have it, but Toyota hasn't been as responsive as VW in issuing a patch.

Some say the delays are to minimize torque steer, but many owners felt this was a safety issue when pulling out in front of traffic and having to wait for a second or so before full power kicks in.

Since I'm in the market to buy in 6 months or so, I'm going to wait this one out and see if many people complain here on Edmunds and other forums.

brutus22

The lag issue has been reported in several professional reviews on the car like Autoweek, but they did also mention that Saturn was working on them to tweek the tranny to eliminate that issue.

By the way just got a nice snowfall here in New Hampshire (nothing like Denver) could sure use an AWD Outlook for the sledding we did this afternoon, had to tie down the sled in my TSX's trunk for the ride to the hill :-)

B.

hiveman

I saw my first in-person Acadia today, parked on top of a delivery truck at the motel I stayed at in Muskegon Mi. Nothing different than pictures other than the rear end looked better than I remembered-overall a pleasing package visually.

tncarman

Ive been researching the Acadia, and I think its a great car, but im yet to see one i person. Has anyone test driven it, and what are your commetns? I have a 3,500lb boat and I know it can tow it, but also a family of five and do you think with only one rear seat up itd have enough luggage space for a roadtrip?

jimxo

I test drove the OL today. My first impression was this "truck" feels big compared to our Lexus RX300. After a long drive it felt more like a large suv than a truck based suv. The car was smooth but had a little more bounce when going over bumps that what were used to. Nothing that would stop us from buying one but a factor in the buying process. Acceleration was very good for the 275 hp (XR) with almost 5000 lbs holding it back. The fit and finish was excellent with Lexus like materials used to make the interior feel luxurious. The best part for me was the width and space with the 2nd & 3rd row fold flat. My guess is this car is high on our short list of suvs. The GM employee discount makes it very attractive $3000.00 off MSRP.

62vetteefp

After a long drive it felt more like a large suv than a truck based suv.

What does this mean? A large SUV is a truck based SUV.

62vetteefp

Has anyone test driven it, and what are your commetns?

Read the comments in this forum in the last week. A bunch of drive comments and all pretty positive.

jimxo

What I was trying to say was its as big as a Tahoe but does not ride like one. It corners and takes body roll better than a large truck base suv.