Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave

kjnorman

I should also add that the Freestyle's second row slides (at least it does on my Limited). In the photo it does look like the Acadia's second row is pushed all the way back meaning little leg room for third row.

albook

Lets say this is the size of/ little larger than a pilot (midsize), then if it wieghed 3900lbs for base model, and 4 cyl made 180 hp- that wouldn't be terrible- Highlander can come with a 4 cyl. But Performance wont be good-probably drive like Freestyle, or Caravan with 4cyl. I doubt that It will have a 4 because it needs strong 6 to compete with Pilot/ Outlook. And won't be small because they have Nitro. Probably have good third row space. We'll see. Hey- sorry JD. I mixed you up with Freestyle owner KJNorman. My fault!

murphydog

When will the Acadia show up at local dealers? I have done on line searches here in the Pacific NW and don't see any yet. Is the Acadia actually out there yet? I would like to see one in real life to get a feel for it. :shades:

tbrba03

Last night we had our first opportunity to see a fully loaded Acadia (sticker $43,000). It was a pleasant surprise and will probably be my next choice after driving a Suburban for 10 years. The third row seating is comparable to the Suburban which means it is accessible but when my husband 6'1" tried to get in even the salesman said he probably won't be riding back there. Since we like to haul three couples we will be looking at a bench seat so three adults can be seated easily (yet to be verified).
I have driven an SUV since 1982 and it is still very SUV like with good clearance. The ride was very good but we didn't get to test out the concerns expressed in the test drive about the down shifting. We do not want the DVD system which may be why we found the built in holding the DVD player distracting. The skylight is great. The view out the back window is much smaller than I am used to, but should be adequate. Overall, looked great.

62vetteefp

Are you saying you want to haul 8 adults? Now that will be a tight fit in the 3rd row. I think only 3 kids (or maybe 3 very small women) will fit back there. Make sure you try it out first. Is there any vehicle out there other than a full size van that can fit 3 adults across in the rear? We can compare dimensions if there is.

tbrba03

I only want to haul 6 adults which we currently do with the Suburban. The reason we have three adults in the second row is because it takes flexibility to get in the third row and not everyone wants to bend that much. Comparing the shoulder dimensions on the second row (65.1 for the Suburban, 61.1 for the Acadia), I would assume it will be ok, but we will want to see a bench seat before we decide.

nxs138

The third row in the Acadia is surprisingly "roomy" for a third row. I put room in quotes because I figure I could tolerate sitting there for short to medium trips, but not for long trips as my knees were touching the second row, and I didn't have much thigh support since my legs were raised up (I guess the seats are close to the floor).

As for getting into the third row, it still takes a fair amount of bending, as you have mentioned, but not nearly as bad as the Pilot/Highlanders that I have seen. I guess you still can't beat a minivan for ease of access.

62vetteefp

One "comfort" feature spec I cannot find is the height of the inside 2nd/3rd row ceiling. That is the distance from the inside floor to the inside ceiling. This is important in getting around in the vehicle and ingress/egress.

Can someone supply these specs? I believe the Lamda will be close to a minivan.

bobw3

I don't know if you're looking at minivans, but the Toyota Sienna can come with 3 seats in the 2nd row (all move independently) with 67.5" of 2nd row hiproom (as compared to 57.9" for the Acadia) and 64.9" of 2nd row shoulder room (as compared to 61.1 as you mentioned for the Acadia). The Sienna also comes in AWD and has about the same exterior dimensions to the Acadia, but you may not be looking at minivans.

bobw3

If you look at the way the floor rises from the 2nd to 3rd row the Acadia, it will really depend on where you measure. With the 2nd and 3rd rows folded in the Acadia, there will be less height than with the 3rd row folded and the second row removed (or stowed in the GC). The minivan's floor is pretty flat from front to rear, so you can walk between the front seats all the way back to the 3rd row, but you can't do that with CUVs.

62vetteefp

The floor in the Acadia is flat to the beginning of the 3rd row seat just like the minivans. The step up for the suspension happens under the 3rd seat.

My question is really from the floor to the ceiling, not top of folded seats to ceiling even though that would be a good dimension to look at but not that important in user movement.

outlaw6

Got the opportunity to test drive the Outlook. Very impressed overall, only real issue was significant wind noise at 70MPH. IMO it stems from the odd shape of the side view mirrors, but not sure, may have been strong head/quartering wind. Overall interior relatively quiet, road noise subdued and nothing instrusive from the engine.

On seating, I'm 6'2" 195lbs, set driver's seat for myself, climbed in behind driver seat and still had ample room 1/2" to spare between knees and back of driver's seat with seat slid fully forward. In 3rd row, with 2nd forward I had just enough room, with 2nd row seat not reclined. Comfy to sit in, and could get away with staying back there for short trips but would not want to spend more than an hour back there. With 2nd row seat slid rear or reclined, the seat is limited to kids or (disliked)in-laws.

62vetteefp

Sounds like the vehicle could hold 7 of you in relative comfort with little issue except for long term in the 3rd row. (I am assuming 3 across in the rear would be tight for adults)

bobw3

I think if you're going to put 3 adults/kids anywhere, it would be in the 2nd row. 2nd row hip/shoulder room is 57.9"/61.1" while 3rd row hip/shoulder room is only 48.3"/57.8" So you have 9" more hip room and 3.5" more shoulder room in the 2nd row.

If it were me, if I only needed to hold 6, I'd go for the 2nd row captain chairs, but if needed to hold 7, I'd go for the 2nd row bench and put 3 in the 2nd row and only 2 in the 3rd row. I think that the 3 people sitting together (adults/kids/kids in carseats) would appreciate the 9" more hiproom!

outlaw6

IMO the Outlook with 2rd Row bench can EASILY hold 7 people (my size) in relative comfort. If there were only 2 adults in the 3rd row, it would be fine even for longer trips. I was sitting comfortably, but straight ahead as I would if there was someone sitting next to me, and could see myself sitting 3 across the third row (again, my size) for trips under 30 miles. It would be cozy, but doable. I'm waiting to see the Acadia and the 2nd row CPTs chairs before I order but i'm definitely going to buy one of the Lambdas. They are simply superior to anything I've seen or test driven in the market.

jd14

With similar exterior dimensions to the Audi Q7, how, in your opinion, does the Outlook stack up in terms of interior space? It's said to be a HUGE improvement over most other CUVs and SUVs by the press, but I have yet to experience any of the Lambdas first hand. Your opinion would be greatly appreciated since many on this forum that have seen the vehicles have had differing opinions in terms of interior roominess.

On a side note, do any of you have any information at all regarding the V8s that will be put into the Acadia Denali or Enclave CXS? I'm hoping that they will have around 350hp since I like to have a little "get-up-and-go" behind my multi-ton vehicles. Additionally, do you guys think that they will be released later in the coming model year or the following year? Finally, what kind of price hike would there be over the V6 variants? $5,000? :confuse:

62vetteefp

If they use the chevy small block $1500-2000 (used in Impala http://www.chevrolet.com/pop/impala/2007/v8_engine_en.jsp) or so? If they use the DOHC Cadillac V8 maybe $3500-4500? That does not count any addtional equipment that may be part of the package.

albook

Let me just say the Q7 has no space comparison to Lambdas. I sat in third row of Audi and Leg room is great- if you don't have legs! cushions large, but no knee space even with 2nd row forward. I got stuck. And row2 space wasn't great either. Cargo space like 88 cubes. Q7 is for looks- not versitility!
And no one knows much about Acadia Deanali yet- But we are all waiting eagerly!

albook

If you are hauling 3 couples I say for luxury get row 2 captains chairs. Very comfortable, and there is no first row bench in Acadia, so you will have to send some one to the wayback to seat 6. But if you move second row up just a little, it's very spacious. And though a little flawed, the system of the row 2 seat folding up for row 3 access give much room and doesn't require a gymnist!
What shocks me is that for over 2 more ft advantage of Suburban, only 15 more cu ft. ANd you save GAS big time!

outlaw6

I can not compare it to the Q7 as I have not sat in or test driven that vehicle. Starting at $40K is a bit out of my price range. I'm looking around $35k, optioned the way I want. And I have looked at almost every CUV/SUV in that price range. I have ruled out every SUV I have driven based on ride quality. I don't need a truck based platform and the trade off in handling/MPG isn't worth it. My favorite SUV was the Commander followed closely by the Pathfinder, my wife preferred the Tahoe b/c of the second row buckets and easier access to the 3rd row. As far as CUVs, I came close to getting the XC90 but it just wasn't quite big enough and a little too snug across the second row, with a barely functioning 3rd row. The Pilot/06 MDX handled well, but again limited on the 3rd Row. The Tribeca is too small, no storage. The Pacifica was OK but the second row console between the buckets kind of killed that idea. We are looking for something with easy access to the 3rd row, where we will put our 2 year old, most of the time. The console on the Pacifica interferes with that. We are pretty set on the Outlook/Acadia but I want to see the CX9 before I make any decisions. That vehicle may be the best competitor to the Lambdas. I have not looked at the Santa Fe but that is based on exterior styling.

bobw3

We are looking for something with easy access to the 3rd row, where we will put our 2 year old, most of the time

If your 2 year old is in the 3rd row most of the time, who is riding in the 2nd row? Even with an easy access 3rd row, it's still a whole lot easier strapping a kid in the 2nd row. And the safest place is the middle of the 2nd row.

62vetteefp

Ran across this in an article on SRX.

The SRX is reasonably priced right now, taking into account the rebates GM is offering. The average buyer pays $41,374 for an SRX, according to the Power Information Network, which isn't bad considering that a Lexus RX 350 goes for $40,231, a Volvo XC90 for $42,572, and an Acura MDX for $45,637. The SRX is also a lot cheaper right now than high-end competitors such as the BMW X5, which is selling for an average of $57,003, and the Audi Q7, which averages $54,169.

albook

Thanks for telling that guy how to raise his children. Now, because of you, he can be a better father! MAybe his kid can climb into row 3 and strap him/ herself in, like mine. And it's not that hard to get back there, with captains.

hondaford

Highs: Ride, handling, acceleration, rear-seat comfort, offset crash tests.
Lows: Small third-row seat, seat-mounted shoulder belts, some unintuitive controls, reliability.

Ratings Snapshot (see below for detail)
Predicted reliability Fuel economy
Owner satisfaction Acceleration
Predicted depreciation Ride
Accident avoidance Front seat comfort
NA / NA Crash protect w/wo side air bags
Reliability and depreciation icons did not copy, but both were much worse than average!
This is what scares me about the acadia. I have read a lot about the plant and GMs plans for this to "get it right." I hope so. If so and the ride is good, there will be one sold to me ASAP. But how do I know about reliability the first year? :confuse:

bobw3

You didn't mention who's in the second row but if you had the older kids in the second row it just seemed to me that it would be easier for a eight year old to get into the 3rd row by themselves than a 2 year old. I was just asking the question based on what I saw in the post. All you mentioned was the two year old, but you didn't mention the whole situation. For all I know you have newborn twins in the 2nd row...I don't know. If you're making comments about a car based on how you use it, then if people knew how you're going to use it then they can compare their situation with yours.

If someone says that the Outlook is the best and the the CX-9 is unacceptable, but fails to mention that he's transporting 6 kids all the time and requires 8 passenger seating, than they should say so. I think in these discussions, the more you know about how someone is using a vehicle the more you can relate to their comments on the car.

And I wasn't trying to tell you how to raise your children...I'm sure nobody will ever tell you how to raise your children because I know you know everything

62vetteefp

Where is this data from? Whoever it is must have contacts on the inside of GM to know the reliability since they are not on the road yet. I mean the latest vehicles have scored pretty well in JD Power IQS and VDS. So how do these reviewers know?

I guess they can guess at depreciation because it is a GM product but the ALG has raised GM products significantly in the last 2 years. Not as good as Toyota but getting much closer.

Samll 3rd row seat? per actual users here it sounds like it makes a comfy 2 person seat. I know it has 3 belts but I think most know it is for 2 adults or 3 kids which will the highest users.

loach

I think the data hondaford was referring to is for the SRX, not the Lambdas. It looks like Consumer Reports' report layout. I think his point is that he likes the Lambdas but is concerned about reliability based on some other GM products. I have some of the same concerns - the GM minivans' reliability has been rated much worse than average by CR's surveys. On the other hand, some of their SUVs such as the Tahoe and Suburban have done pretty well. Only time will tell on the Lambdas, but one would think that this is such an important product for GM that they would make sure to get it right.

stever

"Piloting the Acadia through twisting roads in the Santa Cruz Mountains convinced me it had a better ride than I expected. Living with the Outlook persuaded me this new family hauler might be a better idea than I had thought."

CUVs look like SUVs, drive more like cars (Mercury News)

62vetteefp

OK that makes sense. As I have said before GM has greatly inmproved their quality, especially on the new models. Mostly in the last 3 years. So I would surmize the Lamdas will be excellent.

I would not look at the minivan data. Those poor vehicles are about 8 years old and not a lot of attention was put on them.

albook

Why do you guys compare width of row 3 seat to that of MDX/ CX9? YOu can seat three easily in back of Acadia (a little comfy, though) but put three belts in back of MDX and ther's no place to sit!

allmet33

My wife and I went and looked at the Outlook today...access to the 3rd row is VERY easy in that vehicle. The one handed easy-slide seat allows the seat to fold and slide forward giving an easy path to the 3rd row. Also, they offer captain's chairs for the 2nd row, so that would make access even easier.

I do believe we have found our next family mover. Very, very nice vehicle. Big, but not bulky. Thoughtful details & layout. IMHO...very well conceived vehicle.

kenym

I haven't seen the actual vehicles, but from the pictures they look very nice. However I purchased the 2002 Buick Rendezvous when they first came out in June of 2001 and believe me I will never buy a first year model again. Actually Buick had major problems with the first two or three years of production with the Rendezvous. The Rendezvous was a nice vehicle, and I enjoyed the ride and space but the thing was a total disaster. I had to sell it after the extended warranty ran out because of the cost to maintain it and I received practically nothing for it. I hope Buick learned something from the mistakes they made with the Rendezvous and does a better job with the Enclave.

rrhd

I just made a decision today to go with the 07 MDX over the outlook or acadia and first year issues were a factor. I am much more comfortable with a first year acura than a GM product. I was torn since there are pros and cons to each vechile but reliability and resale value swayed me to the MDX.

kenym

I think that was a wise decision on you part. Not that GM really cares, but I was a loyal GM customer for over forty years and I am quite sure that 2002 Buick Rendezvous was my last GM product. :P

readerreader

In my estimation, nobody is immune to first-year glitches.
I guess some people have had better luck with cars than others.

jsantangelo

see toyota with the new Camry or wasit Avalon and the tranny.

Acadia is sweet. test drove one this week.Waiting for good/decent lease deals.

dmathews3

The new Camry is the one having all the problems with its tranny and hesitation that has owners up in arms. There are owners who have had their cars in for repairs many times and Toyota said there was no problem. Finally after being overwelmed they admitted a small hesitation. They have replaced intire trannys and it has come back. A reprogram has helped a few but there are still many out there and many who Toyota have had there cars for weeks in the shop and gave them a cheap car to drive while they continue paying for a Camry they can't drive.

62vetteefp

For initial quality (3 month) Acura is number 10 at just about the industry average below Cadillac even with Chevrolet and better than Buick. But most of the industry is packed around the industry average of 124. Not a lot of difference anymore out the door. (unless you are buying a VW which is pretty poor)

In looking at the data Acura is number 6 behind Toyota for 3 year reliability so it is pretty darn good but still below Buick and Cadillac.

GM in the last few years has been doing pretty darn good in quality for the new models. Above industry average.

dmathews3

My wife bought a new 07 Cadillac STS4 all wheel drive and after 3 months everything works great. You can't get anymore high tech than the STS except maybe the new 100K Mercedes. This thing has every toy you can think of. Push a button and say windows down/up and they do it. I can remember in the early 80's where GM crap rolled out the door and it took a few trips to the dealer over the first few months to get everything fixed to my satisfaction but once there they ran forever.

kenym

The Cadillac STS is really a great car. However it isn't a first year model by any stretch of the imagination, and starting at 60K for all those toy's... Everything should work great.

dmathews3

Even at 20K things on a car should still work great. What I was getting at is GM has come along ways in their quality as I can remember my 94 Caddy being in the shop a lot and it didn't even have near the tech this car has.
======================
starting at 60K for all those toy's... Everything should work great.

kenym

I totally agree with you on that. At any price things should work as advertised. However my 90 Olds, 95 Caddy, and worst of all my 2001 Buick spent a LOT of time in the shop. I am sorry but I find it hard to share your enthusiasm with the quality of GM. Even with the employee discount I am not sure if I would purchase another GM Product.

newz54

Is it just me..or has anyone else noticed that the second row seating floor area is junky looking and unsafe? Because they have tracks and a plastic frame around the tracks the floor is not flat. Someone could twist their ankle on the raised plastic frame. My salesman said the carpet would even that out but if there was carpet how would the seats move? I guess if you were rarely planning on entering the rear seat you could have the carpet in place.....maybe add some padding in some areas so the floor became flat. You would have to remove the carpet to move the seat.

Thoughts? Is is about the only thing holding me back from ordering this car. I saw the Ford Edge too and the Saturn/GMC looks much bigger and the interior is nicer...including better seats.

jd14

Seats Foward
Seats Back
All done with the carpets in place. Looks great and seems safe and flat to me.

zman3

To me it seems like you're concerned about a bunch of nothing from the "unsafe" standpoint. Junky looking can be subjective. Anytime there is a sliding track there will be something exposed. A certain amount of physical coordination is required in life to avoid injury. I wouldn't sweat it personally.

dmathews3

I'm sure if you look hard enough you can always find something wrong with any car so you have a reason for not buying. And some reasons are better than others. If that is the only reason for not buying then I about the only thing I can think of that may fit your bill would be a bicycle and of course the seats are no where near as nice as the ones in the new GM's. :P

62vetteefp

The Cadillac STS is really a great car. However it isn't a first year model by any stretch of the imagination, and starting at 60K for all those toy's... Everything should work great.

Yes, but perhaps somebody should tell Mercedes. They are in a heap of trouble quality wise. They are well below average in 3 month and 3 year reliability.

62vetteefp

those shots do not display his concerns. Anyone have a better shot? How do you display pics?

albook

Saw a brand new Acadia on the street today. Sticker was still on it. Looks like someone is getting hooked up for the holiday! I liked the blue color, and it looked great! Wish it was for me! Oh well.

Merry Christmas to you guys! Have a good one.

newz54

jd14 thanks for the photos. So what happens to the carpet when the seat is moved? Zman, about the safety concern being a bunch of nothing....maybe for you...but I have an elderly mother that will be getting into the back seat so I can't dismiss the concern.

Once again...I loved the looks of the vehicle....except for the tracks.