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Comments
I have never trusted them with auto's and the previously mentioned above helps confirm that. I would however follow them for appliances, lawn mowers, and televisions.
I'm curious to know if you told the dealer about the conquest cash at the beginning or after you've locked in the price. None of the local dealers I've talked to seem to know about it. They all said there is currently no rebate or incentives from GM.
Also, did you do a factory direct order through the dealer? One dealer said they can only give whatever incentive is in place when the vehicle is delivered, not when we place the order and put down the deposit. That doesn't sound right to me.
Any detail you may be able to offer on your purchasing experience is highly appreciated! We are ready to place an order this week, exciting.....
The dealers are right that they can only give you the incentives that are in place at the time of delivery. They need an invoice/VIN# to apply the incentives to.
Like loach said, you get what is available when the vehicle is delivered, not ordered. I have heard of dealers playing games with the delivery date if you are within a day or two of taking delivery and the incentive is about to expire.
Let me know if you have any other questions.
I just noticed the Conquest cash offer will expire on July 9, right around the time we'll receive the vehicle (dealer says around 8 weeks). If the dealers aren't decent people, they may delay the delivery date for a day or two and make the offer expire. I really don't know why they would want to do that but can't trust them 100% either. Is there anyway to track whether the vehicle has been delivered on your own or do you have to wait for the dealer to call? If I don't tell the dealer about conquest cash while haggling price now, can they deny it when I receive the vehicle?
Is the $1,000 directly taken off the price at delivery or do you receive a rebate check from GM later? I'm getting a Gold Mist, but also hesitated on White Diamond and White Opal. Any comments on the color options?
Sorry about so many questions. Many, many thanks!
We didn't want a fully loaded XR (which they had available for just over $40K. We also didn't want a bare naked XR either. So...we ordered one with the options we specifically wanted. I wanted the touring package for the polished wheels and chrome exhaust tips, but...buying 19" tires later on down the road will be more costly than 18" or even 20" tires as they are an odd size.
Right now, with the options we've selected, our Outlook cost us just over $36K. They told us 4-6 weeks for delivery, so now we sit and wait. I'm so anxious!!!
I just noticed the Conquest cash offer will expire on July 9, right around the time we'll receive the vehicle (dealer says around 8 weeks). If the dealers aren't decent people, they may delay the delivery date for a day or two and make the offer expire. I really don't know why they would want to do that but can't trust them 100% either. Is there anyway to track whether the vehicle has been delivered on your own or do you have to wait for the dealer to call?
I haven't heard of anyone finding an effective way to track orders other than through pestering their dealer. Some folks have tried calling GMC customer service and are usually given the runaround or directed to talk to their dealer.
If I don't tell the dealer about conquest cash while haggling price now, can they deny it when I receive the vehicle?
The dealer really shouldn't have any motivation to play games with your Conquest rebate, unless they were somehow going to try to keep the rebate for themselves. Since you know about it, they know they won't be able to get away with that. The money comes from GM, not the dealer.
Is the $1,000 directly taken off the price at delivery or do you receive a rebate check from GM later?
Not sure if Conquest is any different, but with most rebates it's your choice.
I'm getting a Gold Mist, but also hesitated on White Diamond and White Opal. Any comments on the color options?
I don't think White Opal is an Acadia color. Do you mean Summit White? I have seen pictures of every color option and I can honestly say I think that the vehicle looks good to me in every one. My personal favorites are blue-gold, liquid silver, metallic brown, and gold mist. We ordered blue gold.
Sorry about so many questions. Many, many thanks!
Good luck with your purchase!
Since the money comes from GM, the dealer should want to help you get the cash to make you a happy customer. When I talked about ordering, the salesperson also mentioned that if the offer were about to expire and the vehicle was almost done or in transit, they might be able to get a VIN number to put the offer through on time.
A weird thing I've found out today - after getting multiple fax quotes from local dealers, I noticed their invoice prices are all $860 higher than what's posted on Edmunds. I've read on carbuyingtips.com that Edmunds invoice pricing isn't always correct. But ZMan3 said earlier that his dealer included an advertising fee in the invoice price. How can I figure out if this $860 difference is for advertising or caused by Edmunds' inacurate invoice pricing?
I haven't visited any dealer other than to test drive. Just by emailing, faxing and calling, I'm getting very close to the Edmunds invoice price now. I'll report back on what I eventually get. Happy shopping!
The other question is how the invoice price stacks up against the True Market Value. Hopefully you are beating that number too.
I detest the idea of paying a line item like an ad fee, so I just figure what I think is a fair price for the dealer and make an out the door offer. That way I don't have to negotiate the line items or insult them by talking about holdback and the unknown bonuses, spiffs and cruises the sales manager is going to get by selling one more car that week.
If they don't like my out the door price, I walk and email or fax another group of dealers. :shades: Check out Out The Door (OTD) Pricing questions and the other discussions over in Smart Shopper if you aren't in info overload.
and
Buick Enclave: Lease Questions
We already have active Pricing discussions for the Outlook and Acadia in the Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences board.
I test drove it and you're the 1st person I've heard say it drives like a mini-van. The Outlook is much more stable than any mini-van I've driven, much smoother and handles turns and corners a great deal better.
As with most vehicles...sound systems are an after thought and usually don't sound good. It isn't until you step up to the $40K+ vehicles where sound systems are designed for that particular vehicle, do they sound great. I'll be doing the same thing when we receive our Outlook. I'll be adding a subwoofer utilizing the rear floor compartment behind the 3rd row seats and the amp will reside under those seats. Neat, stealth and tucked away.
Yes, the quality of the fit and finish it much better for domestic products than they've ever been, but I think a great deal of that is due to the mergers they've made with foreign companies. The reliability is something that has improved greatly, just not enough to be tearing up the top 10.
Adding an amplifier does nothing to impede button functionality of the stereo, the amp only does one thing...amplify sound.
To add an amplifier, you can use a hi/lo converter to switch the signal from hi-level (regular speaker wire) to lo-level (rca connectors), or you can purchase an amp that has hi-level inputs and just tap into the speaker outputs behind the radio itself so you won't be amplifying and amplified signal.
However, I didn't have a lag problem with my Azera though, only wide open throttle shifting in 1st gear. That was a programming issue which was taken care of and the car is smooth off the line now.
Anyway, back on topic...it would seem to be as such if the issue has subsided. However, I wonder why it took over 4K miles to happen???
Mergers? They have bought some of the unprofitable korean Daewoo plants and are now making huge numbers of profitable compact cars (of which the Aveo is imported here) but there have been no mergers that helped improve GM quality. They did it themselves.
2nd-quality among the top players is pretty much equal now in both initial and long term. Not much of a difference anymore between GM makes and Toyota/Honda. The delta at 3 years ranges between a "high" of 1.4 problems per hundred to an industry average of 2.3 to a "low" of 4.4(outlier Land Rover). And the GM makes range from 1.5(Buick) to 3.3(Saab). No, quality and reliability is just not a factor anymore.
So yes GM has only a couple marques in the top 10 places but it is a huge mass running down the field today at the same speed. Sure there is only one winner but everyone else is tripping on his heels.
I wouldn't say that the others are tripping on the heels of #1 because there's a huge difference between #1 and #11. However, the disparity between the two isn't as great now as it was 5 or 10 years ago. The gap is closing, but I doubt if the playing field will ever be level.
I was referring to your comment that the mergers GM has made helped them with their quality. Opel and Holden have been part of GM for a lot longer than the Toyotas and Hondas have been imported here so they sure had nothing to do with the quality gains at GM. Saab also had no hand in the quality improvements at GM. Unfortunately their european built vehicles are the worst for quality at GM.
The gap is closing, but I doubt if the playing field will ever be level.
Of course it will never be level. Someone will always be #1. Buick and Cadillac both have better quality than Toyota and the ranking keeps changing because the scores are so close. Huge difference between #1 and #10?
For initial quality that would be .9 vs. 1.2. Only .3 delta. At 3 years 1.36 vs. 2.2. Less than one problem and again not much of a delta especially when both Buick and Cadillac are higher than Toyota. So the average person will have 2 problems instead of 1. Sure it is twice the issues but it is a very low number overall. And again we are comparing it to the best.
We have a very tight garage, so the sliding doors on the Odyssey were a nice feature as was the $2-$3k that we were able to save based on how we wanted the cars configured.
One other factor in the Odyssey's favor is the space behind the 3rd row seat. I'm not sure it's too different from the back of the seat to the tailgate, but the Odyssey has a very deep well.
The Outlook is a very nice vehicle, just not the right car for our needs right now.
Thank you for the feedback though.
Ford...well, their trucks have always been their stonger suit. It seems that Jaguar hasn't benefitted from Ford's ownership, nor has Ford benefitted from them in any way. The Ford Probe was Mazda's gift to Ford, but after that...the Mustang was their staple in the looks category.
Ummmmmmmm...I don't know what listing you've been looking at, but...Buick has NEVER been better than Toyota. Last years rankings, Mercury was the only domestic brand to crack the top 10 with Lexus, Honda and Toyota respectfully at 1-3. For 2007, Toyota took the top spot and Lexus fell to #7. GMC, as a brand...ranked at #14. Lincoln was #13
Are American cars really that bad?
Okay, okay...maybe I was a bit hasty in saying what I said, but that was for 2005 and for the following year for domestics to go from listing 4 in the top 10 to go all the way down to 1 for 2 straight years after...yeah, they're that bad. That means that they're not getting better or consistently staying that way.
For 2006 jd Power VDS (3 year) Mercury, Buick and Cadillac beat Toyota. Not by a lot but did beat them.
Where are you getting your data?
Where is the 2007 data? I did not know it was out yet.
Where are you getting your data? Please provide a link.
That means that they're not getting better or consistently staying that way.
Again the data spread is so small and the numbers so low many are bunching at the same area. Reliability is just not a differentiator anymore. Of course there are some huge problem vehicles out there. GM did used to have some pretty poor numbers and many of those same vehicles are still being built and have not been redesigned. When they are the numbers will go up.
Hey, you are tyring to hard to prove your point!
All I did was typed 2006 or 2007 vehicle reliability rankings.
CNN Report covering 2006 models
CNN Report covering 2005 Model year
Whether the spread is small or large, the fact of the matter is...they are still middle of the road. Simply put...the numbers don't lie!
Show me yours, I showed you mine!
Buick/Cadillac average PPH beat Toyota's PPH.
JD Power does not publish individual data on vehicles. You have to buy the data (which all the OEMS's do and use it internally to gauge their quality improvements). They do show the top three in each segment though.
First, lets forget about initial quality. GM, Toyota and Honda are now on top of each other so it really should not figure into a buying decision.
But for 2006 VDS the Buick Century/Regal/Mercury Sable were the top dogs in the midsize car segment over the Camry/Accord. Not sure if the other midsize GM cars are in between since that data is not published. I went back to 2003 and Camry/Accord were never in the top 3.
2006
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2006133
2005
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005089&searc- h=1
2004
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2004055&searc- h=1
2003
http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2003050&searc- h=1
Yes, but doesn't JD rely mainly on customer feedback? Where does CR get their info?
I am glad, however...that the gap is getting increasingly smaller. While the field may never be level...it'll make buying a vehicle less of a headache when you worry about reliability.
CR sends its surveys to folks who buy their magazine subscription.
JD Power allows the OEMS to have the raw data for their study and analysis. This is supplied in Excel format and comes with graphs and trends and verbatims from the owners
CR will not let anyone see the data.
Many have tried to figure out how the recommended buys are calculated at CR but they cannot find the right formula that fits all winners.
To be honest...as big a stink that can be raised about reliability...there is no perfect car and even nameplates that are high on the list can have a car that can be problematic. I've seen makes that are known to have problematic vehicles have a vehicle that doesn't give any problems to an owner.
It's good to have a gauge to go by, but in the end...I'm going to buy what makes me happy, suits my needs and fits in my budget.