Saturn Outlook, GMC Acadia and Buick Enclave

67vette1

I ordered my Enclave on the 23rd of March and received it May 19. Previously I had been told by the dealer that delivery would be June 1.

I am in the Kansas City area.

allmet33

The availability of 2nd row captain's chairs is what did it for me and my wife when we compared the CX-9, Veracruz and the Outlook. The accessability of the rather comfortable 3rd row. As well as the amount of space behind that 3rd row seat. Not to mention the overall interior space the Outlook has over the other two.

winedogs

lwolf99,

If you don't mind, please let me know what you decide on, price, and overall expierence? I also live in Pittsburgh and I am interested in the cx-9 or the acadia. Not buying until late this year or early next year.

lwolf99

Comparing the Mazda CX9 and the Buick Enclave, besides weighing the feature differences, I am also trying to weigh the importance of a dealer located closer versus a dealer located further.

The GMC/Buick dealer who is 5-minutes from my house, versus the Mazda dealer who is 30-40 minutes away. I don't go to the dealer very often, but when I have to go, closer seems to work out better.

I am trying to figure out how much weight to give dealer location in my comparison.

chuckhoy

If all things are truely equal, I would use it as a tie-breaker. Gotta use something.

rush1169

Wife and I sold our '04 Pilot and bought a decked out Acadia. Now, 3,000 miles later, we're going to sell it as it's just not what we expected. . .

My wife wanted something roomier, with 2nd row captains chairs and a usable 3rd row and something quieter and something smoother. . .I think GM heard her wishes and developed the Acadia. She wanted it in time for a 2nd son. That happened too. All is good.

After 3,000 miles though she has had two near collisions - both would have been her fault - because she simply cannot see very well out of the car. Both rearview and sideviews are simply really cluttered and the car has a high doorline all the way around. The other problem is with the doors. She has a child seat in one chair and a baby seat in the other. When you partially open the door, the door really wants to close. To relieve the pressure, you have to open the door just past half way, but then the door wants to pull itself all the way open. That door characteristic really sucks when dealing with child seats and babies and parking lots. . .

We've decided to sell the Acadia and try something else.

hipreck

You obviously understand the car well and are experiencing my two biggest beefs with it even though I like it overall.

The overall visibility is terrible and I have no idea why GM didn't catch that during design. Backing up is very tricky since it is hard to see. I have never been in an accident and I did tick a car backing out of a parking spot. Still don't know where that car came from. (No damage to my Outlook). I also think the outside mirrors need to be larger. I also still tend of park too far to the right because the high doors make it impossible to see the lines in parking spaces.

When it is windy, the doors have a mind of their own when open. Also when parked at an incline they bounce around. I'm always catching the doors to make sure that I don't ding someone parked next to me.

GM can easily fix the doors with a production change. The visibility problems cannot be fixed due to the high windows and tailgate. I do think they should look at larger mirrors and a standard backup camera.

I still like my Outlook, but I am always on edge when trying to back it up.

hardhawk

A new Chrysler Van would solve both of your issues. Sliding rear doors and a larger glass area. You can get a heck of a deal on a 2007 right now or wait for the all new 2008 models coming out this fall.

rush1169

Yeah - I think we'll go the, gasp, mini-van route. Probably Honda. . .

russstan

A potential solution to the vision issue is small wide angle spot mirrors on each sideview mirror and a fresnel lens on the rear window. I used these to assist in rear and side vision when driving a full size Dodge B-250 conversion van.

lwolf99

Has anyone have any hands-on experience with the new "Personal Audio Link" for direct iPod connection?

I would really like to be able to connect my iPod to whichever new vehicle that I select. I looked at an Acadia and an Enclave. They have an MP3 aux jack, but you would have to select playlists/songs from the iPod wheel. I would rather use the radio control on the main unit, or the steering wheel.

I read about GM's "Personal Audio Link" for direct iPod connection at the following website. According to the article, this seems to have all the features that I am looking for.
http://www.leftlanenews.com/apple-announces-partnership-with-ford-gm-mazda.html

But when I mentioned it at the local dealership, I got some blank stares from the salesman.

Has anyone have any hands-on experience with the new "Personal Audio Link" in an Acadia or an Enclave?

dmathews3

I believe it was said here that it wouldn't be available until sometime in July.

newz54

I might suggest you make sure your driver seat is as high as possible. I am average height but find I need the seats up so I don't feel like I am driving in a bath tub.
I have gotten used to the limited rear visibility. An aftermarket backup camera has also helped.

rush1169

Thank you for your suggestions about the seat height and aftermarket backup camera. The seat is fully raised, which does help, but does not solve. The backup camera should be standard equipment, even on the base model, however, our near collisions were during lane changes. At least while backing up the collision will be minor . . .

lwolf99

Does anyoen know where.how to search online for dealer inventory for Buick Enclaves?

Unless I am missing something, the Locate a Vehicle option on www.buick.com does not include an option to select the 2008 Buick Enclave.

I am getting a little tired of calling and emailing dealers to see if they have any yet, and what options they have.

zman3

Unfortunately that appears to be the only way. For some reason the GM web pages are outdated when it comes to the Enclave. I know the official "launch" is not until mid June, but I have had my Enclave for nearly a month now. You think you'd be able to search for inventory by now.

kcorey

Try going to www.autotrader.com. It's a little tricky (don't go to S.U.V., use "any model", 2007 to 2008, etc.) Then use your zip code, and say 50 miles radius. It's worth a shot.

msindallas

Lots of people are having this problem, as you can see on the forumss. Here's my solution - reject all 3 them and buy an Acura MDX instead. Reasons:

CX9: Rough ride, no moonroof+DVD
Enclave: Not sporty enough, low visibility
Veracruz: No Xenon headlamps

The MDX has it all (except the remote starter thingy). Just waiting to pony up some extra money. Good luck with your purchase. Regards, - MS.

lwolf99

I have been mostly looking at a Mazda CX9 and a Buick Enclave (to replace my minivan). There are no Acura dealerships near my house, so I never had a chance to look at one.

Then the other day, I was doing some work for a client, and there was an Acura dealer next door. So I dropped in.

But looking at the 3rd row, the legroom appeared to me much smaller than the Enclave. I am looking for something with a truly usable 3rd row, so I didn't get the feeling that the MDX would be the vehicle for me. Accordingly, I did not take it for a test drive, but I assume it would have driven nice.

What do you think about the 3rd row legroom when comparing the MDX to the CX9 and Enclave?

lwolf99

Thanks. www.autotrader.com worked ! I found several dealerships with 2-4 Buick Enclaves in stock, and one dealership with 10 listed in stock!

I used the Email feature on www.autotrader.com to email a few of them.

zman3

I think you hit the nail on the head. I liked the MDX when I saw it at the auto show. I am sure it will be quicker and probably handle better than the Enclave. However, if you are looking for space in the 3rd row, the MDX is not the way to go in my opinion. I found the 3rd row small, and the fact that you can only slide one side of the second row forward for entrance into the 3rd row a bit odd.

I bought an Enclave.

docrw

Does anyone else find it odd that bluetooth is not offered in a $40,000+ car? It is available on a Nissan Altima for crying out loud. We are looking at replacing our RX330 to get something with a 3rd row. The Enclave seems almost perfect, but I will not buy another car without bluetooth. I have gotten very used to having it on the Lexus and do not want to give up the convenience and safety. On top of that, I would say that greater than 90% of the people I see driving dangerously are on cell phones. I also think that the aftermarket products are never as nicely integrated or as easy to use as the factory installed ones. My father had one installed on his MKX, another car in which bluetooth is a shocking ommission, and it is more distracting to try an make a call with that unit than it is to pull out your phone and dial a number.

As for Onstar, I'm not going to pay for another service on top of my cell phone. Not to mention the inconvenience of having to give out another number to all my friends and family. In my mind that is an entirely outdated service, it was on my old Saab, before navigation was an option, but I think I only used it 2 or 3 times. I never used the calling service for the reason I explained above. Onboard navigation systems are much easier and most everyone has a cellphone these days. GM should really put an end to it, it has outlived its usefulness. I hope that is not the reason that bluetooth is not being offered on any Buick model. There are better ways to make money than forcing people to use your service if they want the car. Is that why bluetooth is not an option for any cars except Cadillacs? It would be one thing if you could use any carrier, but the fact that it only works with Verizon is, in my opinion, a very poor decision and unnecessarily burdensome.

I guess what I am trying to figure out is, will this be an option on models coming out this fall or does GM care more about pushing OnStar than about giving their customers a choice?

msindallas

What do you think about the 3rd row legroom when comparing the MDX to the CX9 and Enclave?

The 3rd row legroom is much better in both CX9 and Enclave compared to the MDX. However, I figured that for me, that row will be for occasional use only, and that too, for kids, so I could give up on it, gaining a bunch of other stuff (bluetooth, power, sporty handling, SH-AWD, etc).

If 3rd row is a major concern to you, I think the Enclave has better access to it (between the capt chairs) and CX9 has larger rear doors and sliding 2nd row seats. Both can seat adults. Best wishes, - MS.

nxs138

I believe the OnStar nav system is also handsfree, as is calling. However it is part of a package that sets you back $300/yr, which is steep--the verizon connection is additional to that cost, if I remember correctly. Or you can choose to add OnStar minutes--at the cheap, convenient price of $40 for 100 minutes, for example! (can you sense the sarcasm there?)

People that use the OnStar turn by turn direction seem to like it, but I still can't justify paying that much per year--heck, you can buy an aftermarket unit for the price of one year. As for bluetooth, many aftermarket units do suck, but in many cases it's all in the placement of the microphone.

achenator

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but this is the biggie for
me, the Acadia is over 6000 gvw and the MDX is not. I need the tax break for my business. I love acura (own an 06 tl) but $ talks

briansal

I am disappointed with the Enclave's entertainment system options. I learned today, that none of the factory installed entertainment options would allow us to play a CD and a DVD in the vehicle at the same time, because the CD/DVD player is a single-disc dashboard mounted system---and very pricey at that. Also, if you order this CD/DVD system you cannot have the 6-disk CD changer. Even my 2004 Rendezvous had a CD disc changer and a DVD player. Why did Buick have to change this in the Enclave, which after all is being marketed as an improvement on the Rendezvous? The other (less desirable) option, the seatback mounted DVD player shown in the brochure is not even available yet, even if you wanted one of those. If I want to play CD's and let the kids watch a DVD, I guess our only option would be to order Entertainment Package #1 from GM (without the factory installed DVD player) and then have a DVD player installed by a 3rd party. But I am disappointed that GM was incapable of taking care of this themselves. GM should have thought this through better.

hipreck

The MDX is much smaller inside than the GM trio. If you are looking at a loaded Enclave, then the MDX deserves consideration. On the other hand, you can get the Outlook/Acadia for substantially less money than the MDX with less options. I'll be curious to see how the new Honda Pilot specs out and how it compares.

dmathews3

My 07 STS has the 6 disk changer and you can put CD, MP3's, or DVD video in any of the 6 slots. Are you sure the Enclaves isn't the same. I would think it would be the same system.

lwolf99

I found a press release from GM that said the Personal Audio Link shoudl be available for the Enclave in June 2007.

http://media.gm.com/us/gm/en/news/events/sema/06sema/spo/06_SEMA_GMA Electrical.htm

I asked two dealers about it, and both didn;t seem to know anything about the product, and both said it was not available for the Enclave.

Since the Enclave is a 2008 model, I would have throught that any upcoming new features would have been included.

I sent an email message to the GM contact listed in the press release to ask for me info. I really want any new vehicle that I purchase to have direct iPod integration.

lwolf99

I also agree that they must be pushing OnStar service as the only logical reason for noth offering blueooth. Clearly they have the handsfree speakerphone technology and the steering wheel mounted controls already covered.

I was very disappointed to learn that the new Buick Enclave would not have Bluetooth. Just as others have mentioned, I really don't want to deal with the inconvenience of a 2nd phone number for my car, or the extra expense of buying minuts for my car. I have plenty of available minutes with my work cell phone, and would like to be able to pair it with my vehicle for seemless, handsfree, cell phone communication.

I was also looking at a Mazda CX9 - as the Enclave/Acadia and the CX9 are the other 2 vehicles with enouhg legroom in the 3rd row for my comfort level. The CX9 has bluetooth and smart key. But the Buick dealership is 5-minutes from my house, while the Mazda dealership is 40-minutes away. The Enclave/Acadia also has the 2nrd row captains chairs - which I like much beter than the 2nd row bench seats.

So, the Enclave seems to win just about everywhere - other than bluetooth availability. I suppose I am going to have to just stick with my bluetooth earpiece if I decide to get the Enclave. Rather disappointing - considering all of the other great features.

docrw

I have not driven the Enclave yet, as the dealer in my area does not have one with all the options to test but should be getting one next week. What did you think of the Enclave compared to the CX-9, that is also the other car we are looking at. I drove one last week, and while it is not as luxurious as our RX330 it does have most of the features we like, bluetooth, nav, power rear hatch and back up camera, plus it has the smart key. The Enclave looks to be almost as nice as the RX330 but pictures can be deceiving. What did you think? Also, how was it to drive? I'm a bit concerned about the pick up, given its weight.

I guess the bottom line is if the dealerships were across the street from each other, which car would you buy?

Thanks very much.

carnutpa

It looks like several potential buyers that were looking forward to owning an Enclave are now finding things that may prevent them from buying one (Bluetooth, CD/DVD setup, etc.) Here is my issue with the Enclave.
My local dealer got an Enclave in a few weeks ago and I finally had a chance to sit in one. I have been anxiously awaiting the Enclaves and I wanted to order one soon. I am 6'2" (common height) and I sat in the drivers seat and when I looked at the gauges thru the top of the steering wheel, the tops of the gauges (tach & speedometer) were blocked by the top of the steering wheel. I adjusted the wheel all the way up (doesn't go very high) with the power adjustment and the seat all the way down (which is not the way I want to drive), and the tops of the gauges are still blocked by the top of the steering wheel. I can't see my speed on the speedometer from 50-80 mph. Driving on the turnpike, which I do every day, I would have to duck down every time I want to see my speed. This was VERY disappointing. I checked another Enclave with the luxury package and power wheel adjustment and it is the same. I was hoping there was something wrong with this one and the other ones were OK. Both salesmen at both dealerships sat in the car at my eye level and both said this is a problem. I have never had this problem in any other vehicle. It definately seems like the wheel did not adjust high enough and it should have gone further up. I consider this a screw up in engineering. It can't have been intentionally designed this way. Has anyone else encountered this?

lwolf99

docrw,

To answer your question.... Comparing the CX9 and the Enclave, which would I buy?

Well... As a baseline, let's figure that both the CX9 and the Enclave have a lot of similar features - basically same new class of vehicle, both have 3rd row, etc. And for the sake of discussion, let's assume that both have dealerships across the street from each other. Here are the pros and cons that I have seen so far, other folks may have other comments to add too:

Mazda CX9 Pro's
- had a smoother ride, in my opinion
- bluetooth integration
- smartkey

Buick Enclave Pro's
- 2nd row captains chairs, easier to get to 3rd row (by going between the 2nd row captains chairs, and with the opening between the 2 captains chairs, 3rd row passengers do not fee so closed-in.

In my case, reality is that the Buick dealership is much closer. So I think the captains chairs and more usable 3rd row, combined with the closer dealership location, means I am leaning toward the Enclave, at this time.

nxs138

Captains chairs are nice, and initially I was leaning toward the Enclave/Acadia because of that and because of a little better cargo space. However I'm now back to neutral: With 2 very young kids, the only time we'll have adults in the 3rd row will be when grandparents/friends stay over for a few days. And that happens maybe 6 times a year. Even though I find myself thinking, "All this extra room could be nice", I know I won't use it.

The Mazda does have that sliding 2nd row, and apparently you can leave the car seats in while you slide, so that's a plus. Guess I'll have to drive them back to back and see what jumps out at me. The wild card here is the Veracruz...it could end up surprising me.

kimdvm1

I learned today, that none of the factory installed entertainment options would allow us to play a CD and a DVD in the vehicle at the same time, because the CD/DVD player is a single-disc dashboard mounted system---and very pricey at that. Also, if you order this CD/DVD system you cannot have the 6-disk CD changer

I believe that is true if you have CD/DVD plus a nav system (with no NAV system I believe you get a separate slot for CDs and DVDs). This bugged me at first too when I was looking at Enclaves and then Denalis (which is what I bought, but has the same weakness). However, we quickly realized we aren't taking our CD collection with us anyway; we dumped it all on an MP3. You can hook your IPOD or other MP3 player up to the port and listen to that while your kids watch movies.

I think with today's technology, most of us are going to find we are using CDs less, especially 6-disc changers.

We were impressed though when we put a DVD-Audio in at how great the sound was, at least in the Denali. So when we want to listen to those we sometimes kick the kids off the movies (but hey they need to come out of "the zone" once in a while anyway and lucky for them there aren't many albums available on DVD-Audio.)

ral1960

I'm 6'2" also, and tall in the trunk. I don't remember that the Acadia's steering wheel blocked the view, but it didn't seem to go very high, either. What I do remember was the lower edge of the head rest hitting me in the neck, even at full extension. Looks like GM could have sweated these details a little better. Americans are taller and fatter (but not me) than they used to be.

carnutpa

I sat in the Acadia with the manual wheel adjustment and it does go high enough. The problem is the power adjustment does not go as high. I was able to track down one of the Enclave design team's email addresses and I emailed him on this. He suggested I don't get the luxury package because the wheel doesn't go up as high. I'm not going to buy a luxury car without the luxury options.

blurrybill

I have been researching vehicles for months and have been leaning heavily towards the loaded Enclave. One reason for NOT considering a sunroof is the extra height allowed for my long torso, 6-2 frame. This steering wheel issue is really important. Can you share the e-mail address of one of the design teams? I want to know if this will be corrected. I won't purchase until late this year or early next year -- this could be a deal breaker for me, if a design correction doesn't occur. Thanks.

carnutpa

I will give you his email address but I won't post it publicly and I wouldn't want you to do that either. He says he is the Buick Product Manager for the Buick Enclave. If you email me at artfan3d@verizon.net, I will send it to you.

kcorey

Last week, while I was in Orlando,Fla., I happened upon a Buick dealer that had 2 Enclave CXL s.(Be still my heart!)
It was beyond my fondest wishes. He gave me a test drive, knowing full well that being from NY I certainly wouldn't be buying one from him... but that didn't matter.
A very important item that I noticed... rather than buy the factory installed DVD player, there is a DEALER installed DVD player that mounts into the rear of the front seat headrests, is GM approved (it is covered by all GM warranties)and costs less than the factory installed unit. I could imagine myself using this as a great bargaining tool when I decide to buy... probably in the late fall.

lwolf99

I exchanged email messages today with someone from GM reagrding the Personal Audio Link (PAL) for direct iPod connection. Here is what he said...

"Our Personal Audio Link iPod adapter was intended to be in market on several GM vehicles last fall and early this year. We have decided to delay the launch of this product on several vehicles in order to ensure that its performance meets the high expectations of our customers. We are currently working through a technical validation process and are confident that the final product will seamlessly integrate consumer’s iPod’s into their vehicle audio systems. We expect to begin releasing the Personal Audio Link into the market later this summer.

There are currently 3 distinct serial communications protocols being used in GM Vehicles as well as multiple radio combinations. You can well imagine the complexity of offering the PAL on all of our vehicles. The Buick Enclave is scheduled to have the PAL available for installation later this year. We just want to make sure that it is done right and that our solutions will offer you a high quality listening experience. "

So, it sounds like the PAL is close, maybe a few mew months and it should be available. Yeah! Now if they would just add Bluetooth :-)

docrw

Thanks for sharing your impressions. I did like the Mazda when I took it for a test drive I will be driving the Enclave next week. For me the dealership location is not an issue since they are both about 15-20 minutes from my house. With one young child and one on the way I actually think the rear bench may be more practical for a toddler seat and infant car seat, especially since my wife will want to sit back with them when we are driving. Still I'll reserve judgement until I drive the Enclave.

Good luck with your decision if you haven't already made it.

allmet33

Actually...captains chairs would prove to be a better fit with two car seats back there. Then someone could slip between the two to get to the 3rd row seats if needed. If not, you will have to remove one of the seats to fold it forward, right? At least I know this to be true for the Acadia/Outlook/Enclave vehicles.

jay_24

The bench allows two seats on the sides and Mom in-between.
If you want access to the third row, put the child seats in the middle and to one side. This still allows third row access doesn't it?
The bench also allows three kids in one row and the third row completly folded for more cargo room.

allmet33

I guess...if Mom really wants to ride between to car seats.

If you have 3 kids, yes, the bench would allow for 3 kids in the 2nd row. The earlier post mentioned one child with one on the way, so that's only 2 kids.

I have 2 kids already, but one doesn't live with me so the need for a bench seat in the middle isn't that great. In the Outlook, there is quite a bit of space behind the 3rd row seat so even if we have all 3 kids, there's still cargo space available.

metmdx

Anyone know if the dealers have '08 Acadia brochures yet?

allmet33

That's truly crazy...the '07's just really hit the streets!

loach

It's a legitimate question because '08 production starts latter half of June. But I doubt '08 brochures will be available for awhile because the minor '08 changes were just announced a couple weeks ago. Pricing has not been announced yet.

svofan2

..forgive me if so. How all of you feel about buying a vehicle with one fixed price knowing that you are paying close to $2k over dealer invoice and that there is no negotiations?.....
I, for one, have a hard time changing my thinking or the way that I have done business for the last 30 years...please!! enlighten me...thank you all...

stever

I always figured that with the "one price" Saturn, you'd negotiate the trade-in value and any dealer accessories you want.

This topic is being kicked around in the Saturn Outlook: Prices Paid & Buying Experience discussion, so check that board out too.