chuckhoy, Thats a long wait sounds like someone dropped the ball placing the order... This is the first time I've heard about anyone being angry with a Saturn dealer. I'm sure the horror stories are out there but this is a first for me hearing one. I'd be interested in hearing about how the story ends i.e. what they did to make things right. Keep us posted.
GM sales numbers are out for April! Here's the info on the Lambdas:
Vehicle Jan Feb Mar Apr Model Sales YTD Acadia 1682 4283 5739 7487 19191 Outlook 944 1900 2210 3592 8646 Enclave 0 0 0 52 52 Monthly totals 2626 6183 7949 11131 27889
Source: GM Reports 311,687 April Deliveries
I have a question. It would appear Acadia is outselling the Outlook but from what is being kicked around GMC has four times as many dealerships and spent 5 times more on advertising in the first quarter. Does anyone have any insight into this? in other words number of GMC vs Saturn dealerships?
If you want the whole gory story, here it goes. I don't know if you are supposed to name names in this forum, but I am going to anyway. Dealer names, at least. I will take the heat if there is any.
March 15, 2007: After a few weeks of test-driving several minivans and other CUVs we placed an order with Saturn of Des Moines. We ordered a Midnight Blue XR with grey leather, convenience package and second row captains chairs. We were also going to have an aftermarket DVD put in by a company the dealer works with. It had a bigger screen and could play Gameboy games on it for the same price as the factory unit. (well cheaper because you did not need the advanced audio) We were told that it would be 4 to 6 weeks and they would give us updates.
Thursday, April 5th: I called to check if the car would be in town before Easter because we were going to visit family and it would be nice to have the car. Guess what. Not only was the car not in (not a big surprise) but the dealer had not even put the order in yet! I was stunned. That was 3 weeks down the toilet. I was too stunned to be mad. But, when I told my wife, she had no such problem. The dealer gave us some excuses like they could not order more... They used their allotment for that ordering period... It would be the next one in "the system"... After them waffling and us getting very agitated, they said that they would put this one on a priority track. Whatever.
About every other week since then we have been calling to get a status report. They never call us. EVER. Each time we call we get the same story. It is in "the system"... It takes some time... Blah blah blah...
The standard line of BS changed at the end of the week before last. I called for my usual "we have no idea" session and they said it was "in the queue" to be built. They told me it was slated to be built this past week and then shipped (it would take 2 weeks to ship) to us. After waiting a mere 7 weeks, it was only going to be 2-3 more weeks! Wow that is fast! Only 10 weeks of waiting! Yippiee!!!!
Today: Well, last week came and went and my wife called to see if it was on its way. Guess what? No dice. More lies and deceit. I think they are just sick of hearing from us and will tell us anything at this point. My in-laws think it came in a few weeks ago and they sold it. I don't know. The problem is that the nearest dealers other than Saturn of Des Moines are Saturn of Omaha or Cedar Rapids. Those are about 150 miles from here. My wife called the dealer in Omaha to see what they had and found one that might work. It is a red XR with tan leather, convenience package and touring package. We would lose captains chairs and gain 19 inch rims. I would rather have the chairs. The colors are fine. We will probably get it and tell Saturn of Des Moines to go pound sand.
But, the vindictive side of me wants to mess with them. When the car finally comes in, drag out telling them we don't want it for as long as possible. Make excuses for not coming in. Not return calls. Blow off appointments. It could be fun. I think this will work because we have not put any money down or signed anything. We ordered it over the phone. Thoughts?
I am sorry for the length, but you wanted details.
Chuckhoy, That is an interesting story but I must say there are some gray areas here you may want to consider... The first thing that strikes me odd is you placed an "order" with no cash commitment over the phone. Just think about this now if you where on the other end of the phone. How high a priority would you put on the caller if someone had shown the level of interest to come on the lot and wanted the Outlook you ordered over the phone I'd sell it to them as well honestly (I am not taking sides but I do own a business). I've ordered cars many times in the past and was always required to put something up front (with an out clause). If you are serious about making this purchase my advise would be... 1)Drive the 150 miles and buy it. 2)Not mess with the local dealer (you will want to be serviced locally) 3)When dealing with the local dealer for service pretend the whole thing never happened.
Playing devils advocate; it is not their fault you did not give a serious enough impression about commitment (in their minds)over the phone these are not pizza's "placing an order" means they are buying your Outlook i.e. putting up at least $27,000+ that's a lot of cheese. It is their fault that no told you we need X amount to place your order. All transactions I'm familiar with of this nature entails a faxed or emailed quote from the dealer and if you are ready to buy you mail them a check or give a credit card deposit. The Lambda are a hot commodity you now know that all too well. If you want one go the lot look someone in the eye and deal. The human aspect/customer service component is Saturns strongest attribute...
Btw,I am not in the car business nor defending Saturn in any way just responding to what I read.
I would call Saturn Corp. up and see what they can do. If nothing else you should be able to file some kind of complaint. I'm like you, an eye for an eye. If there are no repercussions then that dealer will do it again, and again. Stick it to them. :shades:
I don't know. I'm with Chuckhoy on this one. If they were not willing to accept an order over the phone they should not have accepted the order over the phone.
I ordered an Enclave without a deposit. My dealerships viewpoint was that if I walked away, they had one additional Enclave to sell, probably at a higher price than I had paid.
If the dealer mentioned is unscrupulous what would contacting Saturn accomplish nothing was signed and no money put down they could simply deny the whole thing happened.
IMHO a little pragmatism is called for here if Chuckhoy is serious about buying an Outlook. Taking your advise is setting one self up for a lot of unwarranted stress. I would not want to purchase something and have issues with the dealer/manufacturer. How many people a day come on a lot spend an hour test driving etc and tells the salesman I'll be back and never seen again?Put yourself in their shoes. So let me be blunt(not mean) if the dealer is guilty of anything they should have said hey come on down and put up or shut up. As if they could not sell the Outlook ordered extremely fast the first time you blow off an appointment that Outlook is gone to someone else(so much for being vindictive). Chuckhoy really does not have a leg to stand on here contacting Saturn and no real net gain if he wants an Outlook; doing so it will only create bad blood... pragmatism.
Zman, You really did not "place an order" over the the phone you simply gave the person that places the orders for the coming cycle some idea of what to buy for the dealership is all.In addition may I ask did you come on the lot personally or purchase from the dealer previously? You are correct if you did not actually make the purchase they could have VERY,VERY EASILY sold your Enclave(or should I say the one you desire) to someone else. The dealer is guilty of not asking for a deposit,but "placing an order" is a defined process and I believe there is some confusion here about the term and process in reality.
Placing the order for our last two LeSabres meant the salesman had to know exactly the name/names on the title and it had to match the car being traded in so that the plates could be transferred IIRC. But that order was placed with our name as the beneficiary of the order.
Exactly, When you order a vehical it is ordered in your name and the back out terms are clearly defined such as if the interest rate program changes,or does not come in exactly as specified or if the vehical is damaged in transit etc. It will also spell out clearly under what circumstances the dealer can keep part or all of your deposit,how many days after delivery to the dealership you must close the deal and so on. The rules vary by car maker but all have similar guidelines in order to comply with lemon laws. If you have a long term,stand up relationship with a dealer they may not ask for up front money, apparently that is not the case here... Again I am not defending the dealer here simply pointing out the rules of the road about "ordering a vehical".
Well, I did not just call them up out of the blue. We (my wife and I) went in about 3 times. The first was when we were looking at other models. The second and third were when we said we wanted an Outlook but we wanted to look at all of the package options in the car so we could determine what we wanted. We were in the sales manager's office reviewing what they had in stock and what they could get from nearby dealers. They had either base models with no or few options or completely pimped out ones. We wanted something in the middle.
We decided that if were going to spend this kind of money and are willing to wait, why not order what we wanted? The 4-6 week wait was reasonable and not a big deal. That is when I called up the salesman the day after we met with the sales manager. They had already run our credit so we were good. I even asked if we needed to come in and sign anything or make a downpayment. They said no, we did not need to go in. Maybe this was because this was our 3rd car from them. I don't know. I thought we did everything we needed to do.
It almost seems like they do no want our buisness. I am just glad we did not sign anything or hand any money over. Now we can walk away and get the Sedona that came in second in our hunt.
One thing is certain. We will NEVER buy another car from Saturn of Des Moines. EVER. Maybe not another Saturn if this is how they are going to operate from now on.
I know exactly what you are talking about the order number given to you was the order number assigned to the vehicle every car or truck has this number on its invoice. You went in they sized you up as being credible and placed an order for the coming cycle for what you told them you liked among many others,this the process how else would they know what to order?Giving you that number makes one feel somewhat obligated to buy when it comes in but you did not have to buy it and they really don't have to sell it to you either. Again they sized you up and determined you are credible and shared some every day information with you. Have no illusion this vehicle was not ordered for "you" in a sense it was but in reality.... Based on Lambda movement if you never came in after a call or two it would be sold to the first person who wanted it.
If that truely is the case, we will not deal with GM again. We called every 2 weeks and, lately, every week. Why would they order a car the we "built" and then sell to somebody else when we were ready to buy it? Why would you want to tick off a customer with money in hand ready to buy? It makes no sense to me.
BTW: The first call was placed 2.5 weeks after the order. There is no way it was built and shipped then sold in that time.
besure to drop by with your new ride and make sure the owner of the company sees it, not just the salesman and sales manager. Tell the owner what went on. Better yet, I would ask to see the owner first thing tomorrow and explain everything and what you plan on buying when you are through talking with him and ask him what he can do right then and there to keep your business. Even if he has to sell you a nearly loaded one for his cost after the % rollback that he gets quarterly. And I wouldn't spend very much time there letting them try the bull route either. When I buy a new vehicle I go to the salesman tell him what I want off his lot, tell him from this point on he has 30 min. to come up with is best and final offer including my trade. Then I leave after giving him my number if he changes his mind. Of course I live in a large city with plenty of dealers to choose from.
Dealers, even Saturn dealers, are independent from GM. There are good and bad and overall Saturn are the top dealer group in the country. Call the below number and let us know what happens. Could be in your part of the country Outlooks are hard to come by.
1-800-553-6000 push 3. Tell them your woes calmly with dates and then give them your order number. Perhaps they can help.
I will say in looking at your time line it is very possible they were somewhat telling the truth. The Lamdas are very hot right now and GM is still trying to fill the pipeline. Customer orders do get preference over dealer orders but there are limits to how many GM can build. 8 weeks for a vehicle like this at the start of prroduction is not unheard of. There may even be an option you picked that is on hold and held up the order. However the dealer should have let you know.
We went to the dealership in person and after agreeing upon the price and signing a price sheet, the manager logged in his GM dealer account online and ordered the vehicle according to our specifications right away. When we left the building, we already had an order number. We paid $500 deposit using credit card, but in case anything were to go wrong, we could always dispute the charge.
We were really surprised the dealer didn't push us to buy anything extra, such as the extended warranty. This is our first time ordering a car from the factory, so we don't know what to expect. Do you guys think they'll try to sell additional services when we pick up?
They may, but you already have the 100,000 mile powertrain warranty, (one of the top reasons consumers now buy GM), and they may try to sell you a more comprehensive warranty.
All depends on how long you are keeping it and how many miles you are going to put on it.
My wife and I did the same thing, more or less. However, the salesman only asked us to give him a $100 deposit and the order was sent out. He informed us it would take 4-6 weeks (leaning heavily on the 6 weeks side). I called him about 3 weeks in to see if he had a status and he said that he hasn't received an invoice number yet. When the car comes off the assembly line, they get the VIN# and put it on an order invoice and then ship it. He said from the time it gets put on an invoice, it takes about 2 weeks to be delivered to the dealership.
This is my first time dealing with a Saturn dealer, but since they deal with the no-haggle pricing, I don't think it makes much of a difference to their paycheck if they push dealer add-ons.
He may ask you if there's anything else you might want, but I doubt if he'll be pushy about it.
Oh, I forgot to mention we are getting an Enclave, not Outlook. We may purchase the LuxuryCare coverage from warrantydirect.com. A little expensive but it covers breakdowns including nav/dvd/airbag electronics and wear and tear. I received an email that they are offering up to $250 off before May 25th. I may not have the VIN# by then to purchase coverage yet, though.
Please check who will honor the "Warranty Coverage". My dealer will only honor GM coverage. Many of these so-called extended warranties make you pay for the repairs first, and then they reimburse you...if and when they want to, or you must take it to their "repair centers"
I am also looking for an Enclave. If you don't mind, could you share what you will have to pay for your extended warranty and how many miles/years it covers.
Best bet is the GM coverage as its good at any GM location where a lot of these aftermarket ones will do all they can to get out of the repairs and you may also find it hard to find a dealer that will honor it.
I did not purchase an extended warranty for my Outlook for several reasons. I agree if you must do this for peace of mind go with only GM extended warranty products. The new GM 100,000 powertrain warranty is one of the best in the business and typically the powertrain is the area most things go wrong and most expensive to repair. Cars are built so much better now the quality overall has greatly improved. If you total the cost of payments of a typical extended warranty 60-72 months the number will likely surprise you... Besides you may not want that car or truck beyond the makers in this case 3 years/100,000 miles. Why do you think there are so many extended warranty companies out there it is a cash cow because the odds are way in their favor. Why pay for something now that has no useful purpose until three years or 100,000 miles from now? Run the numbers for 36 months and again for 60 (two years beyond bumper to bumper) what non drive train part would cost more then that number we come up with?... very few. By purchasing an extended warranty you are betting that your new car or truck WILL need major repair. By keeping your hard earned cash in your bank account in essence you are betting it will not. Odds are keeping the cash in the bank is a better proposition.You will likely have some repair cost within three years beoyond the GM warranty but you will also likely be way ahead of the game in savings not buying an extended warranty.
BTW,Never purchase an extended warranty on electronic items(big flat screens are the exception)in many cases you could buy the same item new for close to the cost of a 24-36 month extended because the cost drops or a new version of the same item has been released sending what you currently own to the discount rack and meanwhile you are still paying on the extended warranty (A little off topic but same rules apply considering depreciation etc.)
Glimo;Allmet33 The process of some down payment has been my experience as well as I discussed earlier. The "order" was placed in my name after completing a price sheet signing off on it along with the salesperson and dealership business manager the price sheet indicated the "out the door price"tax tags everything every time I've done this when the car came in the bottom line on the price sheet is the price paid not a penny more. The up front/deposit monies are typically minimal as you describe as well.
don't forget that $125 an hour labor rate on the price of the part. Just one warranty repair could cost you the price of the extended warranty. You can use the same logic on getting into a wreak too. But you carry car insurance to cover those odds.
Anybody actually order an '08 yet, and if so what is the expected delivery time? I'm debating buying an '07 off the lot (although I can't really find the color/equip combos I want) or ordering an '08 and waiting it out. I know either way I probably won't get a GREAT deal on a hot vehicle. TIA, metmdx
According to WarrantyDirect, the vehicle can be brought to any repair facility. Following is from their website:
============= You may use ANY repair facility of your choice. Choose your dealer, trusted mechanic or national chain, it's up to you. How are claims paid? Claims are paid directly to the repair facility with our corporate credit card. There are no paperwork or billing hassles or waiting to be reimbursed. =============
I could not get a quote on Enclave. It is so new that their database doesn't have Enclave yet. Their customer rep told me if I had the VIN#, they could do a quote. I did a quote on a somewhat similar Buick Rendezvous, though. For 7 yr/75k miles LuxuryCare coverage (bumper to bumper including pretty much everything), the cost is $1474 w/ $100 deductible. If the nav or dvd system goes bad after the 4 yr manufacturer warranty expires, I think the repair will cost me more than the extended warranty. I can well be wrong though since I know very little about car repair. I can probably wait a little and see if Enclave is reliable enough. But by then the extended warranty cost will have gone up.
I'm sure that is true but the real kicker is finding a dealer who will accept THEM and wait and jump thru hoops to get their money. When you are out in hicks ville you want to be able to get your vehicle fixed and there will always be a GM dealer near by and they always eccept the GM extended warranty.
============= You may use ANY repair facility of your choice. Choose your dealer, trusted mechanic or national chain, it's up to you. How are claims paid? Claims are paid directly to the repair facility with our corporate credit card. There are no paperwork or billing hassles or waiting to be reimbursed. =============
dmathews3, I think you miss my point I am talking cost vs benefit not about rolling the dice only per say. The cost of car insurance with regard to cost vs benefit is a no brainer not to mention the greater good issue if someone's hitting someone else the offender should pay so in my opinion yes everyone must carry insurance this should not and is not an option( in most states). The cost vs benefit for extended auto warranties is a proven loser for the consumer. We all have stories about our cousin Joey whose Air conditioning compressor went out... some stories end well most bad with Joey having to jump though hoops to get the compressor fixed.( Again if you must only use the makers warranty product) If you need the peace of mind buy one; all I'm saying is the overwhelming vast majority will never recoup the monies paid in you are better off keeping the cash in the bank. If one is not good at saving one may want to consider buying an extended warranty. Another thing to consider is used parts and non OEM parts become more readily available as the life of a car goes on. And before we go down the non OEM part road/issue if the work is not being done at the dealership chances are...
Things like nav or sound systems is really not a problem but should be viewed as an opportunity to replace with a better cheaper aftermarket system once a warranty expires. One other thing labor cost was factored into all scenarios given.
I'm sure that is true but the real kicker is finding a dealer who will accept THEM and wait and jump thru hoops to get their money. When you are out in hicks ville you want to be able to get your vehicle fixed and there will always be a GM dealer near by and they always eccept the GM extended warranty.
I don't quite understand. If I pay the dealer using the extended warranty company's credit card, why would the dealer deny repairing my vehicle? The dealer won't have to be involved in filing any paperwork at all.
I'm sure that is true but the real kicker is finding a dealer who will accept THEM and wait and jump thru hoops to get their money. When you are out in hicks ville you want to be able to get your vehicle fixed and there will always be a GM dealer near by and they always eccept the GM extended warranty.
I don't quite understand. If I pay the dealer using the extended warranty company's credit card, why would the dealer deny repairing my vehicle? The dealer won't have to be involved in filing any paperwork at all.
I had one from Griffin system years ago. They stopped paying with their credit card so then you had to pay and get your money back from them...not that easy. I learned from that that they can and do change their tactics over the years...What are you going to do? Sue them? Not going to be worth it if they are going belly up since there will be little if any chance of recovery.
I'm leaning toward thinking that the manufacturer's coverage might not be such a bad idea, especially for a vehicle loaded with high tech gear. Sure, you might not recoupe all your expense, but odds are that if you have several repairs over 5-6 years of ownership, you might be well off. After 36/36,000 powertrain covers a limited number of parts. Looking at the list leaves engine computer, all power accessories, NAV, DVD etc are NOT covered under the powertrain. Looking at one of the internet sources for GM warranties, GM Major guard for an Acadia or Enclave 72 months - 100,000 miles is around $1200 with $100 deductible. IMHO, relatively inexpensive coverage... Another point...it covers rental coverage on warranty repairs if your vehicle is kept overnight. Yep, I know it is a gamble, but I don't think you could put $1200 in a standard investment and grow it enough to cover a $3000 transmission repair in 4 years.
Hey, just my opinion, in part due to having lived with 2 Jeep GCLs ('99,'00) and seeing all the stuff that broke.
How about GMPP Major Guard coverage for the Enclave that covers pretty much everything and by any GM dealer. It looks to be less than the LuxuryCare. Price listed is for $0 deductible as well. Edit: I looked and 2007 Buick models are listed with 48/48,000 warranty, so if you are't going to keep it very long, then you might not need the extended warranty. Disappointed in the Buick site...Enclave is not listed in their build or locate area that I could find.
Mo/miles List/sale price $100 ded
84 mo / 84,000 miles $1,955.00/ $1,480.00 $1,700/$1,225
I could not get a quote on Enclave. It is so new that their database doesn't have Enclave yet. Their customer rep told me if I had the VIN#, they could do a quote. I did a quote on a somewhat similar Buick Rendezvous, though. For 7 yr/75k miles LuxuryCare coverage (bumper to bumper including pretty much everything), the cost is $1474 w/ $100 deductible. If the nav or dvd system goes bad after the 4 yr manufacturer warranty expires, I think the repair will cost me more than the extended warranty.
An analysis of extended warranties is simple: the companies sell them because THEY make money. That means the odds are in your favor, that you will LIKELY pay more for your warranty than you (or they) would pay in repairs during that time.
The only reason to buy them is to prevent an expense bigger than your pocketbook can stand (i.e. the reason we buy auto insurance is that most of us can't come up with $40,000 if we total a car, or especially the cost of a multi-car accident with injuries). But in the thought of reasonable car repairs, dental insurance, etc. just remember you are most likely putting money in someone else's pocket when you buy extended warranties or extra insurance.
I always make the tire companies take off the extra they try to charge for "road hazard" warranties. In my lifetime, I have only had to buy 1 tire that would have been covered by a road hazard warranty, and it had half-worn tread anyway. I would have spent a lot more on all the warranties. If you have ever worked anywhere that sells extended warranties, you know how hard they push them... because they are making big money on them.
My experience has been a little different. A number of years ago we probably had 3 or 4 tires replaced by Firestone for road hazard damage over a 2 year time period. Also, I have the past few years bought tires at Wal-Mart or Sam's Club. Mounting, lifetime balance - rotation and road hazard is $10 a tire.
I realize that many times I will pay a little more for the coverage than I will realize in repair savings. On the Jeep I paid $1100 for 4 year & 75K bumper to bumper. I realized a saving of $450 for replacement of a water pump. So, it cost me $650 for 'insurance' against major repairs. With the POS vehicles and Chrysler corporate attitude, that was cheap insurance. I would not have kept that one any longer than the coverage.
I would agree that some companies are making big money if they sell extended warranties. Sears may be (or may have been) the worst ever. I would not buy one of their extended warrantites.
I think you have to be very careful in the warranties you pay for. When my wife and I purchased a used Xterra, the warranty was offered to us. It cost us around $2100 and it was a really good warranty. It covered the vehicle for 100K miles (starting from the mileage that we bought it at) or 4 years. It covered roadside assistance and also had trip interruption insurance. It covered repairs where we only paid a $50 deductible for most repairs. If it involved the transmission, engine overhaul, 4 wheel drive system or ECM...then we paid $100 deductible. The warranty is transferrable or if we decide to sell the vehicle or trade it in, we can also cancel it and get some of the money back as well.
wlbrown, You make good points about leaning toward the manufacturers warranty,however my experience with my previous vehicals owned have been very good with few and low repair cost. Toyota Camry 4 years of ownership battery went dead thats it cost $80.00. 2002 Volvo S80 fuel system injector service/cleaning $230.00 thats it outside of normal scheduled maintance(which is pricey but we don't call our Volvo's "bricks" for no reason either!)I still own it, 5 years old and runs like a top. Now some may say "you're just lucky" I disagree. I take care of what I drive and yes even with the best of care cars break down. Did you use your Jeeps to go off road or do you live on an unpaved road? If you do by all means buy a warranty.
I agree it would be a challenge to turn $1,200 into $3,000 in 4 years (I know some that would argue that it is a can do, but hey I'm just an average Joe) I will argue/disagree that repair cost for a 4 year old domestic's transmission will not likely top $1,800 to rebuild or buy from a bone yard and have installed. $3,000 is a way inflated number for this type of repair on a domestic (remember the forum we are in)Also keep in mind the Lambdas have a 100,000 drive train warranty which includes the transmission...
Well...I can say this, 7 years ago, I had a simple 4 speed transmission rebuilt in my 96 Camry. AAMCO wanted $2300 to do the work. I got it done for $1800 at a shop that deals with imports.
With the transmissions today being more complex and having more gears...I guarantee you that a transmission rebuild will easily top $2000 with no problem, and that would be for your most basic rebuild. At the most, I would put the cost between $2500-$3000.
The only way your transmission wouldn't be covered under warranty, given any type of failure, is if you dogged it by not keeping up with the preventive maintenance and the dealer could prove it. I've learned the hard way that spending the $150+ to service the transmission is peace of mind to even help eliminate having to worry about transmission problems in the long haul!!!
allmet3, All I can say is after 100,000 miles and IF my tranny goes out we'll know who's right about this one In the meantime I'll keep my cash in my account not someone else's.
Hummmmm. Brand new high tech 6 speed auto is not going to be repaired for domestic bottom dollar price.
My '00 Trooper has had new timing belt, brake pads, shocks, serpentine belt plus normal maintenance. Trouble free.
So, if I end up out of pocket $500 for 5-6 year insurance against major repairs, assuming it ends up paying off $500-800 for a water pump and maybe another minor repair or two. I'm thinking the piece of mind is worth that. I could afford to pay a major repair out of pocket, but this is pretty low cost piece of mind. Just depends of if you are lucky or not. My B-I-L had a Rivera years ago, one of the first with the touch screen in the center of the dash to control radio, a/c, etc. Probably mid to late '80s. Well, either that touch screen went out or maybe it was the main computer, but I remember them quoting about $2500 for new and looking for one from a wreck. Looking at the 100,000 PT warranty, that would not be covered. So, take your chances, I think I'll decide on how I'll take mine.
I don't buy the extended warranty on everything, but I have been pretty good about getting them on things that break and collecting on them somewhat.
For sure! However, it wouldn't even be a repair that would come out of your pocket.
My statement about the warranty was for a used vehicle that was 3 years old already. It was out from under the manufacturer's warranty, so the extended warranty I purchased was peace of mind for my part. The truck only had 15K miles on it when purchased, so essentially...it was still a new truck. However, that truck will be traded in to make way for the Outlook, so the warranty will be cancelled and we will be getting a refund back (prorated of course).
With the Outlook...the powertrain is covered by the 5 year/100K mile warranty. The only thing I'll ask about is an extended bumper to bumper warranty, if one is available. I'm spoiled by the warranty coverage on my Hyundai Azera (GM claims to be the best, but I wonder what they gauge that on). 10 years/100K miles is standard. I paid an extra $1100 to have the bumper-to-bumper and roadside assistance bumped up to match it. I plan on keeping this car until the wheels fall off.
Comments
Thats a long wait sounds like someone dropped the ball placing the order...
This is the first time I've heard about anyone being angry with a Saturn dealer. I'm sure the horror stories are out there but this is a first for me hearing one.
I'd be interested in hearing about how the story ends i.e. what they did to make things right.
Keep us posted.
Vehicle Jan Feb Mar Apr Model Sales YTD
Acadia 1682 4283 5739 7487 19191
Outlook 944 1900 2210 3592 8646
Enclave 0 0 0 52 52
Monthly totals 2626 6183 7949 11131 27889
Source: GM Reports 311,687 April Deliveries
I have a question.
It would appear Acadia is outselling the Outlook but from what is being kicked around GMC has four times as many dealerships and spent 5 times more on advertising in the first quarter.
Does anyone have any insight into this? in other words number of GMC vs Saturn dealerships?
March 15, 2007: After a few weeks of test-driving several minivans and other CUVs we placed an order with Saturn of Des Moines. We ordered a Midnight Blue XR with grey leather, convenience package and second row captains chairs. We were also going to have an aftermarket DVD put in by a company the dealer works with. It had a bigger screen and could play Gameboy games on it for the same price as the factory unit. (well cheaper because you did not need the advanced audio) We were told that it would be 4 to 6 weeks and they would give us updates.
Thursday, April 5th: I called to check if the car would be in town before Easter because we were going to visit family and it would be nice to have the car. Guess what. Not only was the car not in (not a big surprise) but the dealer had not even put the order in yet! I was stunned. That was 3 weeks down the toilet. I was too stunned to be mad. But, when I told my wife, she had no such problem. The dealer gave us some excuses like they could not order more... They used their allotment for that ordering period... It would be the next one in "the system"... After them waffling and us getting very agitated, they said that they would put this one on a priority track. Whatever.
About every other week since then we have been calling to get a status report. They never call us. EVER. Each time we call we get the same story. It is in "the system"... It takes some time... Blah blah blah...
The standard line of BS changed at the end of the week before last. I called for my usual "we have no idea" session and they said it was "in the queue" to be built. They told me it was slated to be built this past week and then shipped (it would take 2 weeks to ship) to us. After waiting a mere 7 weeks, it was only going to be 2-3 more weeks! Wow that is fast! Only 10 weeks of waiting! Yippiee!!!!
Today: Well, last week came and went and my wife called to see if it was on its way. Guess what? No dice. More lies and deceit. I think they are just sick of hearing from us and will tell us anything at this point. My in-laws think it came in a few weeks ago and they sold it. I don't know. The problem is that the nearest dealers other than Saturn of Des Moines are Saturn of Omaha or Cedar Rapids. Those are about 150 miles from here. My wife called the dealer in Omaha to see what they had and found one that might work. It is a red XR with tan leather, convenience package and touring package. We would lose captains chairs and gain 19 inch rims. I would rather have the chairs. The colors are fine. We will probably get it and tell Saturn of Des Moines to go pound sand.
But, the vindictive side of me wants to mess with them. When the car finally comes in, drag out telling them we don't want it for as long as possible. Make excuses for not coming in. Not return calls. Blow off appointments. It could be fun. I think this will work because we have not put any money down or signed anything. We ordered it over the phone. Thoughts?
I am sorry for the length, but you wanted details.
That is an interesting story but I must say there are some gray areas here you may want to consider...
The first thing that strikes me odd is you placed an "order" with no cash commitment over the phone.
Just think about this now if you where on the other end of the phone. How high a priority would you put on the caller if someone had shown the level of interest to come on the lot and wanted the Outlook you ordered over the phone I'd sell it to them as well honestly (I am not taking sides but I do own a business).
I've ordered cars many times in the past and was always required to put something up front (with an out clause).
If you are serious about making this purchase my advise would be...
1)Drive the 150 miles and buy it.
2)Not mess with the local dealer (you will want to be serviced locally)
3)When dealing with the local dealer for service pretend the whole thing never happened.
Playing devils advocate; it is not their fault you did not give a serious enough impression about commitment (in their minds)over the phone these are not pizza's "placing an order" means they are buying your Outlook i.e. putting up at least $27,000+ that's a lot of cheese.
It is their fault that no told you we need X amount to place your order.
All transactions I'm familiar with of this nature entails a faxed or emailed quote from the dealer and if you are ready to buy you mail them a check or give a credit card deposit.
The Lambda are a hot commodity you now know that all too well. If you want one go the lot look someone in the eye and deal.
The human aspect/customer service component is Saturns strongest attribute...
Btw,I am not in the car business nor defending Saturn in any way just responding to what I read.
Good luck finding the Outlook you want.
I ordered an Enclave without a deposit. My dealerships viewpoint was that if I walked away, they had one additional Enclave to sell, probably at a higher price than I had paid.
I'd be PO'd also.
IMHO a little pragmatism is called for here if Chuckhoy is serious about buying an Outlook.
Taking your advise is setting one self up for a lot of unwarranted stress.
I would not want to purchase something and have issues with the dealer/manufacturer.
How many people a day come on a lot spend an hour test driving etc and tells the salesman I'll be back and never seen again?Put yourself in their shoes.
So let me be blunt(not mean) if the dealer is guilty of anything they should have said hey come on down and put up or shut up.
As if they could not sell the Outlook ordered extremely fast the first time you blow off an appointment that Outlook is gone to someone else(so much for being vindictive).
Chuckhoy really does not have a leg to stand on here contacting Saturn and no real net gain if he wants an Outlook; doing so it will only create bad blood... pragmatism.
You really did not "place an order" over the the phone you simply gave the person that places the orders for the coming cycle some idea of what to buy for the dealership is all.In addition may I ask did you come on the lot personally or purchase from the dealer previously?
You are correct if you did not actually make the purchase they could have VERY,VERY EASILY sold your Enclave(or should I say the one you desire) to someone else.
The dealer is guilty of not asking for a deposit,but "placing an order" is a defined process and I believe there is some confusion here about the term and process in reality.
2014 Malibu 2LT, 2015 Cruze 2LT,
But yes, I did purchase in person. I did not mean to imply otherwise. But I did not put any deposit down on the vehicle.
When you order a vehical it is ordered in your name and the back out terms are clearly defined such as if the interest rate program changes,or does not come in exactly as specified or if the vehical is damaged in transit etc.
It will also spell out clearly under what circumstances the dealer can keep part or all of your deposit,how many days after delivery to the dealership you must close the deal and so on.
The rules vary by car maker but all have similar guidelines in order to comply with lemon laws.
If you have a long term,stand up relationship with a dealer they may not ask for up front money, apparently that is not the case here...
Again I am not defending the dealer here simply pointing out the rules of the road about "ordering a vehical".
We decided that if were going to spend this kind of money and are willing to wait, why not order what we wanted? The 4-6 week wait was reasonable and not a big deal. That is when I called up the salesman the day after we met with the sales manager. They had already run our credit so we were good. I even asked if we needed to come in and sign anything or make a downpayment. They said no, we did not need to go in. Maybe this was because this was our 3rd car from them. I don't know. I thought we did everything we needed to do.
It almost seems like they do no want our buisness. I am just glad we did not sign anything or hand any money over. Now we can walk away and get the Sedona that came in second in our hunt.
One thing is certain. We will NEVER buy another car from Saturn of Des Moines. EVER. Maybe not another Saturn if this is how they are going to operate from now on.
Again they sized you up and determined you are credible and shared some every day information with you.
Have no illusion this vehicle was not ordered for "you" in a sense it was but in reality....
Based on Lambda movement if you never came in after a call or two it would be sold to the first person who wanted it.
I think you would be better off with the Sedona.
Good luck!
BTW: The first call was placed 2.5 weeks after the order. There is no way it was built and shipped then sold in that time.
I would agree I was only responding to your comment about your in-laws thoughts about it all.
Keep us posted about your Sedona!
1-800-553-6000 push 3. Tell them your woes calmly with dates and then give them your order number. Perhaps they can help.
I will say in looking at your time line it is very possible they were somewhat telling the truth. The Lamdas are very hot right now and GM is still trying to fill the pipeline. Customer orders do get preference over dealer orders but there are limits to how many GM can build. 8 weeks for a vehicle like this at the start of prroduction is not unheard of. There may even be an option you picked that is on hold and held up the order. However the dealer should have let you know.
We were really surprised the dealer didn't push us to buy anything extra, such as the extended warranty. This is our first time ordering a car from the factory, so we don't know what to expect. Do you guys think they'll try to sell additional services when we pick up?
All depends on how long you are keeping it and how many miles you are going to put on it.
This is my first time dealing with a Saturn dealer, but since they deal with the no-haggle pricing, I don't think it makes much of a difference to their paycheck if they push dealer add-ons.
He may ask you if there's anything else you might want, but I doubt if he'll be pushy about it.
I agree if you must do this for peace of mind go with only GM extended warranty products.
The new GM 100,000 powertrain warranty is one of the best in the business and typically the powertrain is the area most things go wrong and most expensive to repair.
Cars are built so much better now the quality overall has greatly improved.
If you total the cost of payments of a typical extended warranty 60-72 months the number will likely surprise you...
Besides you may not want that car or truck beyond the makers in this case 3 years/100,000 miles.
Why do you think there are so many extended warranty companies out there it is a cash cow because the odds are way in their favor.
Why pay for something now that has no useful purpose until three years or 100,000 miles from now?
Run the numbers for 36 months and again for 60 (two years beyond bumper to bumper) what non drive train part would cost more then that number we come up with?... very few.
By purchasing an extended warranty you are betting that your new car or truck WILL need major repair.
By keeping your hard earned cash in your bank account in essence you are betting it will not.
Odds are keeping the cash in the bank is a better proposition.You will likely have some repair cost within three years beoyond the GM warranty but you will also likely be way ahead of the game in savings not buying an extended warranty.
BTW,Never purchase an extended warranty on electronic items(big flat screens are the exception)in many cases you could buy the same item new for close to the cost of a 24-36 month extended because the cost drops or a new version of the same item has been released sending what you currently own to the discount rack and meanwhile you are still paying on the extended warranty (A little off topic but same rules apply considering depreciation etc.)
The process of some down payment has been my experience as well as I discussed earlier. The "order" was placed in my name after completing a price sheet signing off on it along with the salesperson and dealership business manager the price sheet indicated the "out the door price"tax tags everything every time I've done this when the car came in the bottom line on the price sheet is the price paid not a penny more.
The up front/deposit monies are typically minimal as you describe as well.
TIA, metmdx
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You may use ANY repair facility of your choice. Choose your dealer, trusted mechanic or national chain, it's up to you.
How are claims paid? Claims are paid directly to the repair facility with our corporate credit card. There are no paperwork or billing hassles or waiting to be reimbursed.
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I could not get a quote on Enclave. It is so new that their database doesn't have Enclave yet. Their customer rep told me if I had the VIN#, they could do a quote. I did a quote on a somewhat similar Buick Rendezvous, though. For 7 yr/75k miles LuxuryCare coverage (bumper to bumper including pretty much everything), the cost is $1474 w/ $100 deductible. If the nav or dvd system goes bad after the 4 yr manufacturer warranty expires, I think the repair will cost me more than the extended warranty. I can well be wrong though since I know very little about car repair. I can probably wait a little and see if Enclave is reliable enough. But by then the extended warranty cost will have gone up.
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You may use ANY repair facility of your choice. Choose your dealer, trusted mechanic or national chain, it's up to you.
How are claims paid? Claims are paid directly to the repair facility with our corporate credit card. There are no paperwork or billing hassles or waiting to be reimbursed.
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I think you miss my point I am talking cost vs benefit not about rolling the dice only per say.
The cost of car insurance with regard to cost vs benefit is a no brainer not to mention the greater good issue if someone's hitting someone else the offender should pay so in my opinion yes everyone must carry insurance this should not and is not an option( in most states).
The cost vs benefit for extended auto warranties is a proven loser for the consumer.
We all have stories about our cousin Joey whose Air conditioning compressor went out... some stories end well most bad with Joey having to jump though hoops to get the compressor fixed.( Again if you must only use the makers warranty product)
If you need the peace of mind buy one; all I'm saying is the overwhelming vast majority will never recoup the monies paid in you are better off keeping the cash in the bank.
If one is not good at saving one may want to consider buying an extended warranty.
Another thing to consider is used parts and non OEM parts become more readily available as the life of a car goes on.
And before we go down the non OEM part road/issue if the work is not being done at the dealership chances are...
Things like nav or sound systems is really not a problem but should be viewed as an opportunity to replace with a better cheaper aftermarket system once a warranty expires.
One other thing labor cost was factored into all scenarios given.
I don't quite understand. If I pay the dealer using the extended warranty company's credit card, why would the dealer deny repairing my vehicle? The dealer won't have to be involved in filing any paperwork at all.
I don't quite understand. If I pay the dealer using the extended warranty company's credit card, why would the dealer deny repairing my vehicle? The dealer won't have to be involved in filing any paperwork at all.
I had one from Griffin system years ago. They stopped paying with their credit card so then you had to pay and get your money back from them...not that easy. I learned from that that they can and do change their tactics over the years...What are you going to do? Sue them? Not going to be worth it if they are going belly up since there will be little if any chance of recovery.
I'm leaning toward thinking that the manufacturer's coverage might not be such a bad idea, especially for a vehicle loaded with high tech gear. Sure, you might not recoupe all your expense, but odds are that if you have several repairs over 5-6 years of ownership, you might be well off. After 36/36,000 powertrain covers a limited number of parts. Looking at the list leaves engine computer, all power accessories, NAV, DVD etc are NOT covered under the powertrain. Looking at one of the internet sources for GM warranties, GM Major guard for an Acadia or Enclave 72 months - 100,000 miles is around $1200 with $100 deductible. IMHO, relatively inexpensive coverage... Another point...it covers rental coverage on warranty repairs if your vehicle is kept overnight. Yep, I know it is a gamble, but I don't think you could put $1200 in a standard investment and grow it enough to cover a $3000 transmission repair in 4 years.
Hey, just my opinion, in part due to having lived with 2 Jeep GCLs ('99,'00) and seeing all the stuff that broke.
Mo/miles List/sale price $100 ded
84 mo / 84,000 miles $1,955.00/ $1,480.00 $1,700/$1,225
I could not get a quote on Enclave. It is so new that their database doesn't have Enclave yet. Their customer rep told me if I had the VIN#, they could do a quote. I did a quote on a somewhat similar Buick Rendezvous, though. For 7 yr/75k miles LuxuryCare coverage (bumper to bumper including pretty much everything), the cost is $1474 w/ $100 deductible. If the nav or dvd system goes bad after the 4 yr manufacturer warranty expires, I think the repair will cost me more than the extended warranty.
The only reason to buy them is to prevent an expense bigger than your pocketbook can stand (i.e. the reason we buy auto insurance is that most of us can't come up with $40,000 if we total a car, or especially the cost of a multi-car accident with injuries). But in the thought of reasonable car repairs, dental insurance, etc. just remember you are most likely putting money in someone else's pocket when you buy extended warranties or extra insurance.
I always make the tire companies take off the extra they try to charge for "road hazard" warranties. In my lifetime, I have only had to buy 1 tire that would have been covered by a road hazard warranty, and it had half-worn tread anyway. I would have spent a lot more on all the warranties. If you have ever worked anywhere that sells extended warranties, you know how hard they push them... because they are making big money on them.
I realize that many times I will pay a little more for the coverage than I will realize in repair savings. On the Jeep I paid $1100 for 4 year & 75K bumper to bumper. I realized a saving of $450 for replacement of a water pump. So, it cost me $650 for 'insurance' against major repairs. With the POS vehicles and Chrysler corporate attitude, that was cheap insurance. I would not have kept that one any longer than the coverage.
I would agree that some companies are making big money if they sell extended warranties. Sears may be (or may have been) the worst ever. I would not buy one of their extended warrantites.
You make good points about leaning toward the manufacturers warranty,however my experience with my previous vehicals owned have been very good with few and low repair cost.
Toyota Camry 4 years of ownership battery went dead thats it cost $80.00.
2002 Volvo S80 fuel system injector service/cleaning $230.00 thats it outside of normal scheduled maintance(which is pricey but we don't call our Volvo's "bricks" for no reason either!)I still own it, 5 years old and runs like a top.
Now some may say "you're just lucky" I disagree.
I take care of what I drive and yes even with the best of care cars break down.
Did you use your Jeeps to go off road or do you live on an unpaved road? If you do by all means buy a warranty.
I agree it would be a challenge to turn $1,200 into $3,000 in 4 years (I know some that would argue that it is a can do, but hey I'm just an average Joe)
I will argue/disagree that repair cost for a 4 year old domestic's transmission will not likely top $1,800 to rebuild or buy from a bone yard and have installed.
$3,000 is a way inflated number for this type of repair on a domestic (remember the forum we are in)Also keep in mind the Lambdas have a 100,000 drive train warranty which includes the transmission...
With the transmissions today being more complex and having more gears...I guarantee you that a transmission rebuild will easily top $2000 with no problem, and that would be for your most basic rebuild. At the most, I would put the cost between $2500-$3000.
The only way your transmission wouldn't be covered under warranty, given any type of failure, is if you dogged it by not keeping up with the preventive maintenance and the dealer could prove it. I've learned the hard way that spending the $150+ to service the transmission is peace of mind to even help eliminate having to worry about transmission problems in the long haul!!!
All I can say is after 100,000 miles and IF my tranny goes out we'll know who's right about this one
In the meantime I'll keep my cash in my account not someone else's.
I don't believe the repair will top $1,800 for a domestic.
I will not have to worry about it (or know for sure what the cost is) for 100,000 miles or 5-6 years the way I drive is what I'm saying.
My '00 Trooper has had new timing belt, brake pads, shocks, serpentine belt plus normal maintenance. Trouble free.
So, if I end up out of pocket $500 for 5-6 year insurance against major repairs, assuming it ends up paying off $500-800 for a water pump and maybe another minor repair or two. I'm thinking the piece of mind is worth that. I could afford to pay a major repair out of pocket, but this is pretty low cost piece of mind. Just depends of if you are lucky or not. My B-I-L had a Rivera years ago, one of the first with the touch screen in the center of the dash to control radio, a/c, etc. Probably mid to late '80s. Well, either that touch screen went out or maybe it was the main computer, but I remember them quoting about $2500 for new and looking for one from a wreck. Looking at the 100,000 PT warranty, that would not be covered. So, take your chances, I think I'll decide on how I'll take mine.
I don't buy the extended warranty on everything, but I have been pretty good about getting them on things that break and collecting on them somewhat.
My statement about the warranty was for a used vehicle that was 3 years old already. It was out from under the manufacturer's warranty, so the extended warranty I purchased was peace of mind for my part. The truck only had 15K miles on it when purchased, so essentially...it was still a new truck. However, that truck will be traded in to make way for the Outlook, so the warranty will be cancelled and we will be getting a refund back (prorated of course).
With the Outlook...the powertrain is covered by the 5 year/100K mile warranty. The only thing I'll ask about is an extended bumper to bumper warranty, if one is available. I'm spoiled by the warranty coverage on my Hyundai Azera (GM claims to be the best, but I wonder what they gauge that on). 10 years/100K miles is standard. I paid an extra $1100 to have the bumper-to-bumper and roadside assistance bumped up to match it. I plan on keeping this car until the wheels fall off.